Online Lessons - Convince Me

I know there are a number here who are fans of online lessons. Since I'm trying to work my way through the Efficient Swing videos I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical.

I guess where I get hung up is on whether my issues (likely numerous) can be diagnosed from one swing. I'm having a hard time believing I'm consistent enough to think there isn't something different happening on my slice shots, vs my hard pull shots, vs my good ones. Is there be a certain skill level, or at least level of consistency, someone needs to get to before an online lesson becomes effective?

Everyone swings extremely consistently, it’s the quality of your swing that determines the consistency of the outcome. Regardless of how inconsistent you are, you’re doing the same things every swing.

Real instructors can answer this better, but I've been told that our swings pretty much look the same, regardless of the result. If you have significant swing problems, they'll show up in that swing you record, even if you somehow manage to hit a good shot.

Bro you've got 715 posts.... I think you're ready

> @Girevik said:

> Is there be a certain skill level, or at least level of consistency, someone needs to get to before an online lesson becomes effective?

In a word, no. Not to mention, I think online lessons is truly one of the best bargains in golf. You are paying about the same you might pay for one round of golf. There's very little downside.

I work as a trainer in I.T. (teach adults to use technology for their jobs). I have also been coaching high school basketball and soccer for a decade now. I can say with certainty that I've met very few people and/or athletes whose optimal learning environment is video based. I would argue that for most people the optimal learning track for a golf swing looks like this...lesson with a pro, practice, another lesson with a pro, practice, another lesson with a pro, practice, play a round, lesson with a pro, etc. The main difference between video and face to face, and it is an important one, is the face to face instructor provides immediate feedback.

You will get feedback from an online lesson, but you only get feedback one time and you won't get it while you're making those swings. Most golfers will do much better with an instructor telling them repeatedly to flatten their wrist at the top, or keep their shoulder down, or hold their wrist c0ck, etc. as they are making those swings.

BUT, video can be a great way to get lessons if you want to learn from a specific instructor who is far away, or if money/time is a concern.

> @iteachgolf said:

> Everyone swings extremely consistently, it’s the quality of your swing that determines the consistency of the outcome. Regardless of how inconsistent you are, you’re doing the same things every swing.

Very very true. Its amazing how consistent speed, path, AoA,etc are despite the outcome being different shot to shot

Your slice/hard pull/good shots are all the same swing...the evidence will be there regardless. Sometimes you are able to match the face with the path and hit a good shot, other times you over correct, and sometimes you don't correct enough. Do the online lesson. The issue will be somewhere between setup and your first move down. Somewhere in that area you are doing something that is causing the compensations you have to make to hit a good shot. And that something is most likely done on 99% of your swings.

Video ten swings and write down numbers 1-10 how well you hit them. Then watch the videos and see if you can tell a difference between your "good" swings from your "bad" ones. I'd bet $1,000 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

i heard Tiger takes online lessons. good enough for him I'll bet you're a candidate :)

Do it. Its worth every dollar.

Pay Dan the 50 bucks and be thankful. The guy is incredible. I usually record 2 different swings. 1 for DTL and 1 for Faceon. Different swings but consistently the same issues. Its great. Just do it

Highly recommended too. Very useful if you are comfortable videoing you own swing

More importantly, you need to do exactly as you are told for a longer time than you might think. You will hit bad shots with the "new" swing but you will have to persevere. In other words: "Trust the process". If you do that, online lessons will be very useful and will make you a better golfer.

Something I found with my own experience, is that video can give you good feedback. I don't interpret my own videos in general, but when my instructor tells me what I should look for, I can tell if I'm making the correct improved move. This is really valuable when, as @Golfbeat says, hit a bunch of bad looking shots while trying to learn a new movement. I've seen plenty of guys on the range working on something, but they don't know if they're making the right change. Its one reason players give up and revert to the old habits. If you can see the change in your swing, AND you trust the instructor, you can have the confidence to keep working on it.

> @musclefront said:

> i heard Tiger takes online lessons. good enough for him I'll bet you're a candidate :)

That's like the student teaching the teacher.

> @numberonecoog said:

> Pay Dan the 50 bucks and be thankful. The guy is incredible. I usually record 2 different swings. 1 for DTL and 1 for Faceon. Different swings but consistently the same issues. Its great. Just do it

Wrong dude.

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > @numberonecoog said:

> > Pay Dan the 50 bucks and be thankful. The guy is incredible. I usually record 2 different swings. 1 for DTL and 1 for Faceon. Different swings but consistently the same issues. Its great. Just do it

>

> Wrong dude.

Care to explain why it's wrong?

The premise of the original question was "I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical."

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> The premise of the original question was "I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical."

True, but the only reason I said Monte is that I'm tying to work through his video. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the only on I can benefit from. I'm open to any and all options

Questions like this almost always come from high handicaps. They think there are some mysterious things going on that can’t be figured out by those who do this for a living. Send an online lesson and you will be straighten out with at the very least the proper things to start working on.

I think online lessons with Monte have greatly improved my swing.

Old swing-----

Face on:

DTL:

Current swing-----

Face on:

DTL:

I did do a clinic with Monte in February, but most of the improvement was from 2 online lessons last year and one this year before the clinic. Sent him another lesson a few days ago actually.

> @Girevik said:

> > @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > The premise of the original question was "I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical."

>

> True, but the only reason I said Monte is that I'm tying to work through his video. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the only on I can benefit from. **I'm open to any and all options**

You best option here is to open your mind, period. You were highly skeptical of the video series, now highly skeptical of online lessons. At this point you are your own biggest obstacle. You have to ask yourself, are you legitimately interesting in improving? The reality is you are obviously unhappy with your game, so what are you going to do in order to get better? There is no smoking gun, one magic thought/feel/video that is going to fix all of your issues, you are going to have to work for it since for the most part, we all have a few fundamental flaws that are well ingrained and need to be addressed in order to see lasting change.

Every tidbit of good information from a quality instructor that is ingested via video or online lessons becomes beneficial in the long run, as it 1) Helps you understand the basics of a good golf swing 2) Helps you understand your flaws and where you deviate the most from "good" 3) Helps you understand what works for you and what doesn't. Monte for example, he has a ton of content, it all is based on the same basic swing, but it's conveyed in countless different manners such that it can translate to different golfers who all learn/feel/react in different ways.

With that being said there is nothing a good instructor can't see on video that they will see in person. The main difference is in an in person lesson there is a quicker iteration cycle to find what feel/thought/drill is most effective in resolving your most egregious flaws, since the instructor can see immediately how you react, where as in an online lesson they will give you a few different ideas and it's up to you to see which is best. With that being said, a few online lessons with a good instructor may be more beneficial than an entire lesson pack of in-person lessons with someone else (it was in my case at least).

At this point I don't think anyone can "convince you", you need to convince yourself.

Can't speak to online lessons with Monte, but can speak to online lessons in general. I too was sceptical as to whether I would actually benefit from the pro just seeing one swing and being about to see what my issues were. But I know now that it is very possible for them to find out what is going wrong and fix faults. I do my lessons via the Skillest app and its easy to upload and then get videos back on what to work on. They are great just for reference too, and for going back over when practising.

I have had a number of in person lessons over the years and I have improved my over all swing etc but have never come down handicap wise. Since starting online lessons I have come down from a 20 to a 16 handicap, a few bad results recently has me back up to 17 but would recommend anyone to give them a try.

OP - for a long time I had the same mindset as you. What if I captuer my "good swings" and the instructor won't see my faults? What if I capture an absolute terrible swing that isn't really me? etc. Since doing online lessons I have probably captured a hundred or so different swings throughout my practice trying to monitor changes. Many of those swings look identical across the board and over time. I've been tasked with making some big changes and even with all my hard my swing hadn't changed significantly in like 6 months. Only now is it starting to change for the better on things I'm working on.

Do yourself a favor, spend the money and get the lesson.

I'm going to be a bit of contrarian here. Think online lessons are highly dependent on the issue you're trying to resolve. I'm a decent golfer (5 handicap when I first did the online lesson), but have a major swing flaw. Took an online lesson with Monte in which he very clearly diagnosed my main issue (among others). Monte did a great job of telling me what the issue was and made suggestions on how to fix it, but, no matter how I tried, I could not fix it on my own / could not determine if I was on the right track.

I scheduled an in-person with Monte a couple months after the online lesson. Within 10 minutes, we had worked through a number of feels and were able to get me headed in the right direction with a course of action to fix the issue for good over the coming 3-6 months. The one-on-one time and working through different feels face to face was invaluable. I've cut 1.5 strokes off my handicap in the last 1.5 months and the issue is slowly working its way out of my swing. This wouldn't have happened online.

All that said, I could probably take an online lesson from Monte in a month and it'd work just fine, but will always prefer the one-on-one time. Others may be different and I may be dense, but the one on one experience is invaluable if you can get it.

> @dvq9654 said:

> I'm going to be a bit of contrarian here. Think online lessons are highly dependent on the issue you're trying to resolve. I'm a decent golfer (5 handicap when I first did the online lesson), but have a major swing flaw. Took an online lesson with Monte in which he very clearly diagnosed my main issue (among others). Monte did a great job of telling me what the issue was and made suggestions on how to fix it, but, no matter how I tried, I could not fix it on my own / could not determine if I was on the right track.

>

> I scheduled an in-person with Monte a couple months after the online lesson. Within 10 minutes, we had worked through a number of feels and were able to get me headed in the right direction with a course of action to fix the issue for good over the coming 3-6 months. The one-on-one time and working through different feels face to face was invaluable. I've cut 1.5 strokes off my handicap in the last 1.5 months and the issue is slowly working its way out of my swing. This wouldn't have happened online.

>

> All that said, I could probably take an online lesson from Monte in a month and it'd work just fine, but will always prefer the one-on-one time. Others may be different and I may be dense, but the one on one experience is invaluable if you can get it.

I don't think anyone will argue that online is better then in person with the same instructor. However I will argue that I'd rather have an online from a good instructor then an in person from a meh instructor.

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Girevik said:

> > > @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > > The premise of the original question was "I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical."

> >

> > True, but the only reason I said Monte is that I'm tying to work through his video. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the only on I can benefit from. **I'm open to any and all options**

>

> You best option here is to open your mind, period. You were highly skeptical of the video series, now highly skeptical of online lessons. At this point you are your own biggest obstacle. You have to ask yourself, are you legitimately interesting in improving? The reality is you are obviously unhappy with your game, so what are you going to do in order to get better? There is no smoking gun, one magic thought/feel/video that is going to fix all of your issues, you are going to have to work for it since for the most part, we all have a few fundamental flaws that are well ingrained and need to be addressed in order to see lasting change.

>

> Every tidbit of good information from a quality instructor that is ingested via video or online lessons becomes beneficial in the long run, as it 1) Helps you understand the basics of a good golf swing 2) Helps you understand your flaws and where you deviate the most from "good" 3) Helps you understand what works for you and what doesn't. Monte for example, he has a ton of content, it all is based on the same basic swing, but it's conveyed in countless different manners such that it can translate to different golfers who all learn/feel/react in different ways.

>

> With that being said there is nothing a good instructor can't see on video that they will see in person. The main difference is in an in person lesson there is a quicker iteration cycle to find what feel/thought/drill is most effective in resolving your most egregious flaws, since the instructor can see immediately how you react, where as in an online lesson they will give you a few different ideas and it's up to you to see which is best. With that being said, a few online lessons with a good instructor may be more beneficial than an entire lesson pack of in-person lessons with someone else (it was in my case at least).

>

> At this point I don't think anyone can "convince you", you need to convince yourself.

Can't like this post enough. And not a dig at the OP, thats just a hard truth that I suspect many of us have had to work through.

> @jut111 said:

>

> I don't think anyone will argue that online is better then in person with the same instructor. However I will argue that I'd rather have an online from a good instructor then an in person from a meh instructor.

Completely agree. Not knocking online lessons, especially if no good alternative is accessible locally. I've had maybe 5 lessons in my lifetime and 3 of them were with "meh" instructors and Monte's online lesson was far superior to all of those.

> @Krt22 said:

> > @Girevik said:

> > > @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > > The premise of the original question was "I'm considering one with Monte, but I have to admit, I'm skeptical."

> >

> > True, but the only reason I said Monte is that I'm tying to work through his video. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the only on I can benefit from. **I'm open to any and all options**

>

> You best option here is to open your mind, period. You were highly skeptical of the video series, now highly skeptical of online lessons. At this point you are your own biggest obstacle. You have to ask yourself, are you legitimately interesting in improving? The reality is you are obviously unhappy with your game, so what are you going to do in order to get better? There is no smoking gun, one magic thought/feel/video that is going to fix all of your issues, you are going to have to work for it since for the most part, we all have a few fundamental flaws that are well ingrained and need to be addressed in order to see lasting change.

>

To be fair, I wasn't skeptical about the video series in general. I started two threads on a couple of different series because I WAS interested in trying one but wanted to see if anyone had input to help determine if they were any good (and if anything the majority of folks seemed to be trying to talk me out of them). It was through those that someone suggested the Efficient Swing series which I ended up buying. But then I was just asking questions trying to determine which was most likely to be helpful. If anything when it came to the videos I was guilty of over analyzing (a trait I am prone to) rather than skepticism.

It was in the course of asking those questions that folks suggested online lessons which is what brought me here to see if I could get my reservations about them addressed.