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US Kids Priority Status

 leezer99 ·  
leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026Members  1878WRX Points: 1,209Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,878 Platinum Tees
Joined:  edited Jul 19, 2019 in Juniors/College Golf Talk #1

Looks like they completely took winning / placing in events out of the equation for determining priority status at the local tour level. Winning or placing in the top only matters in two or three day events moving forward. To me it seems like they finally realized that the local tour fields are pretty weak and allowing kids to get into larger events by simply placing high in their local tours. The priority status afforded to the multi day events is also geared towards building better fields in larger events. From my untrained eyes it sort of looks like they are trying to make this a more competitive tour that holds more clout.

Link here: US Kids Priority Status

edit: I'm wondering what is stopping a local tour director from moving their local tour stops to 'easier' courses so that their kids have the opportunity to score better. Also wondering if there is any rule on whether or not the course has to be a par 72 because playing shorter executive courses with a par 67 would definitely make it easier to score better and get higher status.

Posted:

There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

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Comments

  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1609WRX Points: 410Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    Leezer I have to agree
    From what I can tell the are recognizing that some local events are really weak while others are much stronger. I also think US kids is getting a lot of competition from PGA sectionals for juniors and they know they need to have a more competitive worlds event to attract more players from the stronger areas.

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  • hangontighthangontight Members  756WRX Points: 209Posts: 756 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 19, 2019 #3

    This makes sense and is more fair to Little Johnny from Florida who finished 4th place in his stacked Florida local tour with an average score of 76. He will now get invite to a Regional & World over Little Billy from North Dakota who finished 1st place in his local tour with an average score of 90.
    At least in the younger levels (my experience) demand seems high for regional s & worlds. Maybe that changes with older age groups, I dont know. They still will want to fill those fields so they are still going to go down the Priority Status levels as far as they need to to fill the events.

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  • DallasDallas Members  196WRX Points: 85Posts: 196 Fairways
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    Any idea on how this impacts the 9 hole events? From what I can tell, all of the scoring is based on 18 holes.

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  • hangontighthangontight Members  756WRX Points: 209Posts: 756 Golden Tee
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    On -, @Dallas said:

    Any idea on how this impacts the 9 hole events? From what I can tell, all of the scoring is based on 18 holes.

    I had same question. Bet they update pretty quick to clarify that.

    Posted:
  • Belmont148Belmont148 Members  1508WRX Points: 92Posts: 1,508 Platinum Tees
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    My daughter is 7 and is showing an interest in golf again. From our experience with USK with my son we were planning on bypassing it all together. But may give it a look this year now that it may shape up to be a little better setup. Time will tell. We do have the luxury of having a really well run tour her locally, even if the USK system in general has been flawed imo.

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  • darter79darter79 Members  896WRX Points: 311Posts: 896 Golden Tee
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    On -, @hangontight said:

    On -, @Dallas said:

    Any idea on how this impacts the 9 hole events? From what I can tell, all of the scoring is based on 18 holes.

    I had same question. Bet they update pretty quick to clarify that.

    I sent them an email about that. I’ll update after I hear back.

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  • wildcatdenwildcatden China Cat Sunflower Members  1282WRX Points: 680Posts: 1,282 Platinum Tees
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    It might be funny seeing all the Instagram posts with kids posting a big "L" after Worlds this year.

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  • darter79darter79 Members  896WRX Points: 311Posts: 896 Golden Tee
    Joined:  edited Jul 22, 2019 #9

    basically cut the scores in 1/2 for 9 holers. But the biggest question is what status will now get you into what even. What will their regional invite schedule look like. Either way does look like score counts more now than placement.

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    Post edited by darter79 on
  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3867WRX Points: 1,170Posts: 3,867 Titanium Tees
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    On -, @darter79 said:

    basically cut the scores in 1/2 for 9 homers. But the biggest question is what status will now get you into what even. What will their regional invite schedule look like. Either way does look like score counts more now than placement.

    Score should count more than placement. I have said this for quite some time. Was paired in a practice round with a kid from Mississippi that won his local. Kid couldn't break 100 on a good day. Yet, there were really good players on our local tours in Florida that sat at home because they didn't win.

    This will stop the Status Chasing. I know kids that would play in US Kids Local Tour Events simultaneously to chase the status for worlds.

    I think they have requirements for the Directors on the types of courses they play. Seems like every time we played at less than a Par 72 course they would stretch the long par 4's into Par 5's to make it play as a Par 72.

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  • Golfingdawg19Golfingdawg19 Members  492WRX Points: 219Posts: 492 Greens
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    I'm all for the scores counting for something but are they taking into account the tournament it was done in and the distances it was done from. My daughter played in the Florida State tournament this year and it played around 4000 yds which is really short. One of the days she shot 73 which is a great score. The next week we played RedWhite Blue and she shot a 78 from 4700 yds which was also a good score for her. If there isn't any consideration for distance that the score was shot from, then people will work the system. Go play the local tour which is very short and shoot some low numbers and there you go.

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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1609WRX Points: 410Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    On -, @Golfingdawg19 said:

    I'm all for the scores counting for something but are they taking into account the tournament it was done in and the distances it was done from. My daughter played in the Florida State tournament this year and it played around 4000 yds which is really short. One of the days she shot 73 which is a great score. The next week we played RedWhite Blue and she shot a 78 from 4700 yds which was also a good score for her. If there isn't any consideration for distance that the score was shot from, then people will work the system. Go play the local tour which is very short and shoot some low numbers and there you go.

    There are alway going to be people of game the system. Not much you can do about it. Personally if someone scores that score I have no issue with it.

    What I think will happen instead is you see more stroke shaving in local tours. So instead of bogeys all around they turn into par.

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  • DallasDallas Members  196WRX Points: 85Posts: 196 Fairways
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    I am sure it has happened, but hate to think stroke shaving is something that goes on with any regularity. My son plays in an extremely competitive league and I cannot imagine anyone going for that sort of deal.

    Posted:
  • Holden33Holden33 Members  2WRX Points: 7Posts: 2 Starters
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    So a kid would be required to meet the age scoring requirement twice and needs to shoot a 36(72) to gain status 11 for Worlds?

    Posted:
  • leezer99leezer99 Boy - 2026 Members  1878WRX Points: 1,209Handicap: A BillionPosts: 1,878 Platinum Tees
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    Just saw that US Kids regional this weekend is playing boys 11 at 5,123. That's ridiculously short IMO. I've played the course they will be at and it's resort golf with no trouble. Expect low scores!

    Posted:

    There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.

  • yellowlover519yellowlover519 Members  433WRX Points: 179Posts: 433 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 17, 2019 #16

    On -, @leezer99 said:

    Just saw that US Kids regional this weekend is playing boys 11 at 5,123. That's ridiculously short IMO. I've played the course they will be at and it's resort golf with no trouble. Expect low scores!

    Still longer than local (4800). My take is until 9 (old yardages) it’s pretty easy to shoot 36 or break par. Not so easy at 11 to shoot par or under, even from 4800. I would be shocked if for boys 11 and 12 if you needed more than a level 9 (2-76s) to get an invite to worlds. Just can’t see 130+ kids doing that to make up a field. For 10u, I expect level 10 to be needed to get in. A couple of 37s or lower is doable in those yardages if you have a decent short game. This is for boys...

    Posted:
  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members  297WRX Points: 138Posts: 297 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 17, 2019 #17

    On -, @leezer99 said:

    Just saw that US Kids regional this weekend is playing boys 11 at 5,123. That's ridiculously short IMO. I've played the course they will be at and it's resort golf with no trouble. Expect low scores!

    From what I remember last year, the course plays much longer due to the fact that the ball doesn't roll much on bermuda fairways.
    I do expect good amount of red numbers looking at last years score.

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  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members  297WRX Points: 138Posts: 297 Greens
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    On -, @Holden33 said:

    So a kid would be required to meet the age scoring requirement twice and needs to shoot a 36(72) to gain status 11 for Worlds?

    Shooting 36(72) twice IS the scoring requirement to get status 11. There isn't a separate age scoring requirement outside of that.

    Posted:
    Post edited by mrshinsa on
  • Golfingdawg19Golfingdawg19 Members  492WRX Points: 219Posts: 492 Greens
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    As you guys have stated, its more about scores now than on placement. I don't have an issue with that. The only thing I see is that they don't differentiate between the distances that the scores are shot from. So a 76 at worlds counts the same as a 76 at a local but yet they are from totally different distances. The further back you go the higher the scores should be. My daughter is 11 and is one of the smaller kids out there. From the short local tour distances she can shoot par but when you move her back to the womens tees then shooting 80 is a good score. There should be some way to weight the scores based on the distance and strength of field. Just my take though.

    Posted:
  • Holden33Holden33 Members  2WRX Points: 7Posts: 2 Starters
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    I spoke to a person at U.S. Kids today and the worlds criteria will be out in the next few weeks.

    Posted:
  • tobaccoroadtobaccoroad Members  317WRX Points: 72Posts: 317 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 19, 2019 #21

    Good discussion and I have some strong opinions.
    Background (not a passive brag I promise - just to let you know our history/experience):
    1) My son is 12. Birthday is on the last day of the summer tour almost always so he has gotten used to playing longer yardages in the summer.
    2) Played his 4th Worlds this past August. Finishes between 40-80 with a spike at The Legacy in the 10s. You had to hit the ball 200 to have any chance but those that did lit it up.
    3) Just won his local tour against tough competition this past summer shooting low rounds of 74 and 72. (THIS IS KEY TO MY POINT) (also I edited it for a mistake in my original post. Corrected to 74)
    4) His good friend played the minimum 4 tournaments and shot 71 twice.
    5) My son misses out on full status by a single shot, committed to the tour and played every event and has secondary status compared to his buddy that played 4 tournaments. The scoring criteria US KIDS uses now is that he broke 76 twice and won the tour. This gives him secondary status (Level 10). The fact that he missed the top status by a single shot and they say his scores only matter that he broke 76 is CRAP.

    I understand the reasoning why US Kids did this, but they HAVE to evaluate how they give status. My son is going to now play the bare minimum and just try to go low. This will hurt local tours as the better players will just stop playing once they get their scores set. My son was -1 through 15 holes and in the middle of the fairway before the pressure of scoring a certain number got to him. He will learn and get better from it but it is still ridiculous to me.

    Posted:
    Post edited by tobaccoroad on
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  • tobaccoroadtobaccoroad Members  317WRX Points: 72Posts: 317 Greens
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    And IMO almost 5200 is perfect for 11 year olds at a regional. The good players will score, the average ones won't. 11 year old World's is just under 5600 so it is right in line with that.

    Posted:
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  • kcapkcap Members  209WRX Points: 131Posts: 209 Fairways
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    On -, @tobaccoroad said:

    Good discussion and I have some strong opinions.
    Background (not a passive brag I promise - just to let you know our history/experience):
    1) My son is 12. Turns 12 on the last day of the summer tour almost always. Youngest kid in Worlds.
    2) Played his 4th Worlds this past August. Finishes between 40-80 with a spike at The Legacy in the 10s. You had to hit the ball 200 to have any chance but those that did lit it up.
    3) Has won 6 local tours
    4) Just won his local tour against tough competition this past summer shooting low rounds of 73 and 72. (THIS IS KEY TO MY POINT)
    5) His good friend played the minimum 4 tournaments and shot 71 twice.
    6) My son misses out on full status by a single shot, committed to the tour and played every event and has secondary status to his buddy that played 4 tournaments. The scoring criteria US KIDS uses now is that he broke 76 twice and won the tour. This gives him secondary status (Level 10). The fact that he missed the top status by a single shot and they say his scores only matter that he broke 76 is CRAP.

    I understand the reasoning why US Kids did this, but they HAVE to evaluate how they give status. My son is going to now play the bare minimum and just try to go low. This will hurt local tours as the better players will just stop playing once they get their scores set. My son was -1 through 15 holes and in the middle of the fairway before the pressure of scoring a certain number got to him. He will learn and get better from it but it is still ridiculous to me.

    With all due respect, I do not get it. Are you not happy that the cut - off is 76 or that he missed full status to his buddy who shot a lower score.

    We could debate the cut-off endlessly but they needed to draw the line somewhere and they chose 76. If your son had shot 75 and the cut off was 74..you would have probably not liked that as well.
    Anyway, I think the priority status fixed a big flaw with the prior system, kids who shoot low tend to be the best and should make it to the worlds. This will give the stacked local fields from FL/TX/CA a shot to make it for Worlds.

    That said, no system is perfect and in an ideal world they would adjust the scoring requirement for the course, conditions etc. Wish they had a course rating for each tee box, so a 76 on a 135 rated course counts more then a 76 on a 114 rated course. Also course can play longer and shorter depending on the season/location. I know it is hard to level the playing field but for me personally I have seen a 6-10 stroke differential between my sons score in the spring and fall. It could be that he ages up in spring, or that the ground is not wet in the fall but have noticed the score differential over the last 3 years. I remember starting a thread cause I could not understand what happened to his game during the first spring season...

    Finally, different perspective to your experience. In an earlier tour, my son did not get full status despite shooting low, winning tournaments but not the full tour. He was the better golfer but he could not compete in each and every tournament for a variety of reason -- that kind of sucks as well.

    Posted:
  • tobaccoroadtobaccoroad Members  317WRX Points: 72Posts: 317 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 18, 2019 #24

    On -, @CTgolf said:

    On -, @tobaccoroad said:

    4) Just won his local tour against tough competition this past summer shooting low rounds of 73 and 72. (THIS IS KEY TO MY POINT)

    It was 74 and 72.

    Having played against both your son and his friend many times before, I don't think it's really fair to say that S, who shot 71 twice (last two rounds of the Summer Tour so it wasn't like it he planned it), is less deserving to get status to play at Worlds.

    Worlds should be a competition among the best players, not who is most committed to the Local Tour.

    Nice to hear our boys played together. Hopefully they had a good time!
    Please do not misunderstand my post. It has nothing to do against the player that plays 4 and breaks par twice. S is absolutely deserving of the highest status and I understand and support that. My point is that US KIDS should have a better recognition of a kid that shoots almost the same AND wins the tour. There should be more weight to it for the kids that do that. Imho to say it should be BETTER then a kid that won the local tour and shot two great scores that were basically right where the level 11 criteria is isn't balanced.

    My solution would be to give Level 11 status to tour winners that broke 74 twice. When I saw the changes, I immediately thought that the range of 72 twice for level 11, or 76 and winning the tour for level 10 as the next best was too much of a difference. I thought they needed to bridge that gap and 74 twice and winning the tour seems very fair and identifies the best players as well.

    Posted:
    Post edited by tobaccoroad on
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  • tobaccoroadtobaccoroad Members  317WRX Points: 72Posts: 317 Greens
    Joined:  edited Sep 19, 2019 #25

    On -, @kcap said:

    With all due respect, I do not get it. Are you not happy that the cut - off is 76 or that he missed full status to his buddy who shot a lower score.

    We could debate the cut-off endlessly but they needed to draw the line somewhere and they chose 76. If your son had shot 75 and the cut off was 74..you would have probably not liked that as well.
    Anyway, I think the priority status fixed a big flaw with the prior system, kids who shoot low tend to be the best and should make it to the worlds. This will give the stacked local fields from FL/TX/CA a shot to make it for Worlds.

    That said, no system is perfect and in an ideal world they would adjust the scoring requirement for the course, conditions etc. Wish they had a course rating for each tee box, so a 76 on a 135 rated course counts more then a 76 on a 114 rated course. Also course can play longer and shorter depending on the season/location. I know it is hard to level the playing field but for me personally I have seen a 6-10 stroke differential between my sons score in the spring and fall. It could be that he ages up in spring, or that the ground is not wet in the fall but have noticed the score differential over the last 3 years. I remember starting a thread cause I could not understand what happened to his game during the first spring season...

    Finally, different perspective to your experience. In an earlier tour, my son did not get full status despite shooting low, winning tournaments but not the full tour. He was the better golfer but he could not compete in each and every tournament for a variety of reason -- that kind of sucks as well.

    My point is not to say that the kid that shoots par or better twice shouldn't get status, it is that there is too much of a gap for the kid that basically shoots the same number, wins the tour and does NOT get the high status. His buddy did not "take" the status away - it is completely separate. In theory you could have 10 kids from the same tour earn Level 11. In that case, the new system is 100% fair as those players shouldn't cut each other out. There are strong regions that have players that are some of the best in the world and they would previously (like your son) have been elite players but the old system would have some of them miss out. Again - I am not arguing against the kid that shoots 72 twice. My argument is that the Tour winner that shoots great scores is a completely lower level. Too much differential between the two.

    If my son had shot 76 twice, I would agree with his status at level 10. Even and then 2 over? No. I do not agree with that at all. But that is obviously just my opinion. US Kids is working it out an I'm sure there will be tweaks until they find their sweet spot.

    Thanks for your thoughts though. Let's keep talking about it.

    Posted:
    Post edited by tobaccoroad on
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  • kcapkcap Members  209WRX Points: 131Posts: 209 Fairways
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    There is a notch benefit for shooting low and winning the tour. If your son had shot 76 twice and not won the tour his status would have been 9 but now he is 10.

    I am going to assume that US Kids had bunch of data and where kids score in each age group for locals when deciding the cut-offs - and thus they chose 72 and 76 (win the tour).

    I do believe they do not give enough credit to winning/placing in the Worlds/Regional. Placing 4th or 5th in the worlds or 2nd in a regional is a 10 which is the same as winning your local tour and shooting 76 and below. That is just wrong. I think we can all agree coming 4-5th at Worlds implies shooting well below par in the shorter local tours.

    Posted:
  • darter79darter79 Members  896WRX Points: 311Posts: 896 Golden Tee
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    On -, @kcap said:

    There is a notch benefit for shooting low and winning the tour. If your son had shot 76 twice and not won the tour his status would have been 9 but now he is 10.

    I am going to assume that US Kids had bunch of data and where kids score in each age group for locals when deciding the cut-offs - and thus they chose 72 and 76 (win the tour).

    I do believe they do not give enough credit to winning/placing in the Worlds/Regional. Placing 4th or 5th in the worlds or 2nd in a regional is a 10 which is the same as winning your local tour and shooting 76 and below. That is just wrong. I think we can all agree coming 4-5th at Worlds implies shooting well below par in the shorter local tours.

    Agree 100% there is no real reward here for winning and placing well at the bigger events in terms of status. I would like to see a bit more status on winning the local tour as well. But at the end of the day score matters more now. Go shoot lower scores and you can walk away with an good status where before some age groups you could shoot 48 on 9 and have guaranteed status. I do believe this system is better than the old.

    Posted:
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  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members  297WRX Points: 138Posts: 297 Greens
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    On -, @tobaccoroad said:

    On -, @kcap said:

    With all due respect, I do not get it. Are you not happy that the cut - off is 76 or that he missed full status to his buddy who shot a lower score.

    We could debate the cut-off endlessly but they needed to draw the line somewhere and they chose 76. If your son had shot 75 and the cut off was 74..you would have probably not liked that as well.
    Anyway, I think the priority status fixed a big flaw with the prior system, kids who shoot low tend to be the best and should make it to the worlds. This will give the stacked local fields from FL/TX/CA a shot to make it for Worlds.

    That said, no system is perfect and in an ideal world they would adjust the scoring requirement for the course, conditions etc. Wish they had a course rating for each tee box, so a 76 on a 135 rated course counts more then a 76 on a 114 rated course. Also course can play longer and shorter depending on the season/location. I know it is hard to level the playing field but for me personally I have seen a 6-10 stroke differential between my sons score in the spring and fall. It could be that he ages up in spring, or that the ground is not wet in the fall but have noticed the score differential over the last 3 years. I remember starting a thread cause I could not understand what happened to his game during the first spring season...

    Finally, different perspective to your experience. In an earlier tour, my son did not get full status despite shooting low, winning tournaments but not the full tour. He was the better golfer but he could not compete in each and every tournament for a variety of reason -- that kind of sucks as well.

    My point is not to say that the kid that shoots par or better twice shouldn't get status, it is that there is too much of a gap for the kid that basically shoots the same number, wins the tour and does NOT get the high status. His buddy did not "take" the status away - it is completely separate. In theory you could have 10 kids from the same tour earn Level 11. In that case, the new system is 100% fair as those players shouldn't cut each other out. There are strong regions that have players that are some of the best in the world and they would previously (like your son) have been elite players but the old system would have some of them miss out. Again - I am not arguing against the kid that shoots 72 twice. My argument is that the Tour winner that shoots great scores is a completely lower level. Too much differential between the two.

    If my son had shot 76 twice, I would agree with his status at level 10. 1 over? No. I do not agree with that at all. But that is obviously just my opinion. US Kids is working it out an I'm sure there will be tweaks until they find their sweet spot.

    Thanks for your thoughts though. Let's keep talking about it.

    I'm sorry he missed out by few strokes. If he's shooting 74/73, it's only a matter of time before he can shoot low, and he still has at least a couple of seasons to do so. If a kid's best score is a 76 and gets a Level 10, he will be invited to all the regionals and state. However, if he gets invited to the Worlds, he will most likely be shooting in the 80's, due to the longer yardage and tougher course, which is the bottom half of the group.
    No-one knows whether the cutoff will be at Level 11, 10 or even 9 yet so all this could be a non-issue.

    Posted:
  • AUSweeperAUSweeper Members  51WRX Points: 30Posts: 51 Bunkers
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    I’ve wondered what the effects on local tours will be. Better players just play their 4 tourneys, get a couple low scores and be done with it?

    Posted:
  • mrshinsamrshinsa Members  297WRX Points: 138Posts: 297 Greens
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    On -, @AUSweeper said:

    I’ve wondered what the effects on local tours will be. Better players just play their 4 tourneys, get a couple low scores and be done with it?

    That's exactly our plan. We have status already and I cringe at the idea of paying $60 for some of the dumps our local director books.

    Posted:
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