Putting Woes

Ever ran into a extended period of poor putting? Any tips for getting past it? IF there's already a topic (I'm sure there's several but the search function never yields results for me) please link me to it.

This season has been painful, average score went from 71.8 to 74.7 thanks to AVERAGING 36.2 putts/round(proximity to the hole is the best it's ever been for me). Ball striking has been the best it ever has, yet scoring has suffered. Spend most of my time practicing putting (gate drill, 3-6-9 feet, eye board, etc.) but never seem to make tangible progress. Looking for any suggestions to remote coaches, drills, and resources you can think of. About ready to hang up the clubs after this latest season of struggles.

Thanks in advance,

I see putting as having 3 components. I need to read the putt correctly, I need to hit my intended start line, and I need to have the intended speed. Can you identify one (hopefully no more than one) component that is the problem? That might lead you to additional or different drills to address the weakness.

> @davep043 said:

> I see putting as having 3 components. I need to read the putt correctly, I need to hit my intended start line, and I need to have the intended speed. Can you identify one (hopefully no more than one) component that is the problem? That might lead you to additional or different drills to address the weakness.

Good point Dave, I'd have to say intended speed is continuously the primary issue. Greens on my course are very inconsistent (+ or - a 2-3 point range on stimp) and difficult to accurately gauge even if slope and grain are read correctly.

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > I see putting as having 3 components. I need to read the putt correctly, I need to hit my intended start line, and I need to have the intended speed. Can you identify one (hopefully no more than one) component that is the problem? That might lead you to additional or different drills to address the weakness.

>

> Good point Dave, I'd have to say intended speed is continuously the primary issue. Greens on my course are very inconsistent (+ or - a 2-3 point range on stimp) and difficult to accurately gauge even if slope and grain are read correctly.

So you're up 3 strokes this year, did the greens become more inconsistent this year, or is it your perception based on your distance control problems? I know, perception is a difficult thing to quantify, so I guess the question is whether other players are having the same problems with inconsistent speed. If they're not, and you are......

For distance control, one drill I like is this version of the Ladder Drill

https://golf-info-guide.com/golf-tips/golf-drills/distance-control-golf-drills-ladder-drill/

I had this issue coming out of winter this year. Started my year by putting absolutely terrible and averaging around 35 putts a round just like yourself. I had no idea if I was reading the greens bad, my speed was bad, or if I wasnt stroking the ball square. I finally gave up and took a lesson from a friend of mine who turned pro and he changed my entire setup. Took a bit of time to get used to, but only a couple months later and I'm putting the best I ever have. So I advise getting a lesson from a professional that knows what they are doing and has had success. Potters Putting is a guy I've found on instagram and he sells video lessons. I've heard many positive things about him.

Another thing that usually helps me is switching putters. When I've lost the feel with a certain putter, switching can help start over and gain a new feel. **Disclaimer:** Ive found this fix is typically temporary.

I've had similar putting woes this year and distance control has definitely been a problem. Three putts have been killer.

I subscribe to the theory that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Grinding out drills is obviously helpful - but if you're at the point where you want to hang up the sticks entirely - like...try something different because you're going to drive yourself insane.

I started with tempo because that seemed to be my problem once I started thinking about distance control. I downloaded a metronome app and really (re) focused on tempo and stroke length and how those control distance. I found I wasn't as smooth and free with the tempo that seemed right (and I found that my tempo was ALL OVER the place which is why my distance control was so crappy). I then went from a face balanced mallet to a putter with a lot more toe hang (cleveland classic 2) - I also found that a longer putter made more sense and I feel like I'm swinging more freely through the ball now with a tempo that is a lot more consistent. So I changed my whole set-up basically (I changed my pre-putt routine even) - but I wasn't just doing it to do it. I felt like I had reasons for what I was doing.

The ladder drill is great for distance control - I also like the drill where you take an alignment stick and put it around 30" behind the hole perpendicular to your putting line. Then you take some balls and try to hit the ball past the hole but not past the alignment stick. I go back and forth from, say, 8 feet, to 16 feet (or 15/30). It was that drill that revealed how bad my tempo was BTW. Self-diagnosis was pretty easy actually once I decided to focus on tempo - you seem like you play and practice a lot more than I do so that might be more difficult for you. Take a lesson! Good luck.

I switch to left low when my putting goes hay wire. I’m usually pretty consistent with speed but sometimes I go through stretches where I push and pull putts badly. Directionally I’ve always been more consistent with left hand low but my speed control is awful. Whatever the reason after a couple rounds of left hand low I can switch back and the pushes and pulls are a lot less frequent.

Something that helped my speed was the understanding that for good putters, their putterhead speed was actually at its peak right at impact. That means, the player was NOT accelerating through impact, he was almost coasting. I know for certain that decelerating at impact is generally bad, and the FEEL of accelerating can help avoid the decel, but truly accelerating is also less than ideal. My speed control got better when I took a little longer backswing, and worked on the feel of hitting the ball at peak putter speed.

Thank you all for the input. I'd have to say most players are struggling with putting thanks to the new super, just not to the degree that I am. I definitely struggle with speed the most, then once the confidence is lost early on in the round I have been missing a lot of short putts despite multiple tactics including leaving the pin in and being aggressive through the ball. Has anyone dealt with Potter's Putting?

Maybe try a different style putter to pair better with your stroke? Outside of that maybe try using the alignment line on ball to intended target. This will take one factor out of your mind, then concentrate on speed

A few years ago I had become very mechanical thinking too much about making a good stroke. I also found that I was thinking too much about making the putt which put more pressure on making a good stroke. I had been a very good putter in college and for several years after college and I remembered I had one thought back then. It was to forget about making the putt and the mechanics of the stroke and try to hit the putt solid. I began to practice that again and it took some effort but after a couple of months practice it became comfortable. When I played I found that I was beginning to make more putts, short and long, by focusing on a solid strike.

so is your problem long putts or short putts? sounds like it might be a speed thing given your comment about inconsistent greens, but your drills seem to be focused on aim. Are you practicing the right thing?

It might be worth going through the dave pelz putting test to see what is / isn't working. This site has the description of the test:

https://derekhoopergolf.com/pelz-short-game-putting-skills-tests/

Three things all good putters do...and I bet you're missing at least 1 of these:

1) Eyes over the ball or slightly inside

2) Hands Slightly Forward at Address

3) Putter shaft in line with forearms *** this one is crucial that many don't pay attention to

Also I assume you are using a blade putter. Might not be a bad idea to try out some mallets. I was blade putter for 20+ years and made the switch. New equipment isn't going to solve your problems, but I do find my Spider to be a little more forgiving than my blade.

Also if you are missing shorts putts. I'd guess that you have an outside to inside path slightly or your lower body (hips, waist, legs) are moving with your stroke or combination of both. Try putting with a very still lower body and just use your core to swing the putter. And if it's a blade - make sure you are at least taking it away slightly inside, if you go outside to inside with a blade, it's really hard to putt it straight.

And most people I see with inconsistent speed in putting have a very wristy stroke. Hard to be consistent with wrist action. I think that's why Left Hand Low got so popular fast. Easy way to take the wrist out.

Don't rule out a putter fitting. Speed control issues can very well be related to inconsistent roll quality

> @wagolfer7 said:

> Three things all good putters do...and I bet you're missing at least 1 of these:

> 1) Eyes over the ball or slightly inside

> 2) Hands Slightly Forward at Address

> 3) Putter shaft in line with forearms *** this one is crucial that many don't pay attention to

>

> Also I assume you are using a blade putter. Might not be a bad idea to try out some mallets. I was blade putter for 20+ years and made the switch. New equipment isn't going to solve your problems, but I do find my Spider to be a little more forgiving than my blade.

>

> Also if you are missing shorts putts. I'd guess that you have an outside to inside path slightly or your lower body (hips, waist, legs) are moving with your stroke or combination of both. Try putting with a very still lower body and just use your core to swing the putter. And if it's a blade - make sure you are at least taking it away slightly inside, if you go outside to inside with a blade, it's really hard to putt it straight.

>

> And most people I see with inconsistent speed in putting have a very wristy stroke. Hard to be consistent with wrist action. I think that's why Left Hand Low got so popular fast. Easy way to take the wrist out.

I do focus on 2/3 of those but not the putter shaft in line with the forearms, I will address that.

I normally use a Spider and do well with short putts but horrible on 10'+ with it for whatever reason. With my blade I'm using I do better (relatively) on longer putts but the trade off is on the shorter putts. I will check all of the things you have mentioned though as far as lower body stability is concerned! Thanks!

If results ,when you practise your short putting, are good, i.e, you hole a large %, it's not your stroke. You need to work on pace drills/speed. Also when you play ask yourself good questions on the green like "What will it take for this ball to enter the hole?" and picture it. NEVER ask a bad question or give negative instructions.

I’m having similar issue. I’m currently a 12 handicap and ball striking has been excellent as has chipping, but off the tee and putting at times are keeping me from the single digit I want. I’m thinking of trying a claw grip with putting.

I had a similar issue. My buddy (+ handicapper) watched me and said everything is perfect except my tempo. He told me to take the putter back farther. Insta fix. It really smoothed out my transition. Just something to try if you feel like you have a pop stroke. The other thing he told me was to make sure I start the backswing within 2 seconds of looking away from the target. That has helped as well.

I agree with the above on the idea of the definition of insanity.

Don’t keep on doing the same thing for 3 years like I have. Make a change big enough to reset the mind and ease up on expectations. My putting woes mirror yours as far as scoring average etc. my scoring average stayed around 74 which included many low rounds and many 75-77 blowup rounds. All hinging on putter. I swapped to an Armlock that is fitted to me and I’ve already Seen a short term average drop for last 6 weeks go to 71.3. Overall it’s down to 72.8 on my handicap stats.

It’s not due to being “ locked “ either. It’s because it forced a new setup , ball position , and for whatever reason that setup etc is making the ball start online. This begat confidence, with in turn causes putts to fall , which then makes you feel like everything can go. It’s a domino effect.

I can tell you that for me. It was bad enough that I no longer looked to make 6-8 footers. I just tried not to 3 putt. I have begged a ball to miss a green so that I had a pitch instead of a 35 foot putt etc. that’s how low my confidence got. Alll that was erased in a weeks time.

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @wagolfer7 said:

> > Three things all good putters do...and I bet you're missing at least 1 of these:

> > 1) Eyes over the ball or slightly inside

> > 2) Hands Slightly Forward at Address

> > 3) Putter shaft in line with forearms *** this one is crucial that many don't pay attention to

> >

> > Also I assume you are using a blade putter. Might not be a bad idea to try out some mallets. I was blade putter for 20+ years and made the switch. New equipment isn't going to solve your problems, but I do find my Spider to be a little more forgiving than my blade.

> >

> > Also if you are missing shorts putts. I'd guess that you have an outside to inside path slightly or your lower body (hips, waist, legs) are moving with your stroke or combination of both. Try putting with a very still lower body and just use your core to swing the putter. And if it's a blade - make sure you are at least taking it away slightly inside, if you go outside to inside with a blade, it's really hard to putt it straight.

> >

> > And most people I see with inconsistent speed in putting have a very wristy stroke. Hard to be consistent with wrist action. I think that's why Left Hand Low got so popular fast. Easy way to take the wrist out.

>

> I do focus on 2/3 of those but not the putter shaft in line with the forearms, I will address that.

> I normally use a Spider and do well with short putts but horrible on 10'+ with it for whatever reason. With my blade I'm using I do better (relatively) on longer putts but the trade off is on the shorter putts. I will check all of the things you have mentioned though as far as lower body stability is concerned! Thanks!

Not really sure how you’d line up the shaft with both forearms. Forearms create a triangle. The shaft can’t be on both legs of that triangle.

I struggled with putting early this year, couldn't get a good read on putts, actually was reading greens horribly, and distance putts were all over the place. I have a small SW green in the backyard that is flat and even that looked like it had breaks in it to me. The issue was I got a stronger eye glass prescription in Feb (for distance) and it really messed up my perception of the nearby stuff. The previous glasses I could wear while playing with no problem. I ditched the glasses while playing and can putt again (at least as good as before anyway). I just need somebody to watch where any shots over 200 yards end up for me now!

Why do you think the problem is putting? To average 36 putts per round you must either hit every green, no one does that, or hardly ever get up and down in two. Putts per round comes down every time you chip and then one putt.

Steve

I’ll plug David Orr. He has a great deal where you get a 3-hour lesson which includes a putter fitting and a stay overnight at the Pine Needles lodge for $700. I don’t know where you live, but it was well worth it for me to fly there and get the lesson. I figure that I saved money alone on not buying new putters. But the real value is that I came away being able to coach myself. The putter fitting was huge and he does it in the best possible way where he’s able to change just enough of your putting stroke to get it where it needs to be to fit the putter to you.

I went from a 34” Bettinardi Queen B #9 (mallet style head with ½ shaft offset flowneck) with an oversized grip to a 35-1/2” EVNROLL ER1.2 with a welded ½ shaft offset flowneck with a midsize pistol grip. At first I didn’t quite buy into the 35-1/2” length, so I went with 35” instead. Then I went with 35-1/4”. It wasn’t until I went to 35-1/2” that my putting greatly improved.

I think most golfers are probably using a putter that doesn’t fit them well. The big things I see is that they are using a putter that is too short in length and the arms end up getting too straight at address. Then I see too many using a plumber’s neck when they should be ½ shaft or no offset as well as using a mallet when they should be using a blade and vice versa.

Green reading is another point I would bring up. Again, not sure where you live, but in Florida I see golfers paying way too much attention to the grain. The slope plays a larger role, particularly on these modern Bermuda grasses which are so much better than old Bermuda greens.

A few years ago I did a study on Tour players and breaks of putt and essentially I found that about 90% of the players on Tour have a break bias, either putting much better on right-to-left breaking putts versus left-to-right breaking putts and vice versa. The players that did not have a bias were exclusive in the upper 90th percentile in Putts Gained.

What I also found was that players that had a Break Bias whose Putts Gained improved by 1 standard deviation over the mean saw that Miss Bias go away. So let’s say a player from 10-feet typically makes 45% of their left breaking putts and 35% of their right breaking putts…in a tournament where they putted well, you may see something like them making 50% of their left breaking putts and 50% of their right breaking putts.

My conclusion is that the data shows how important it is to identify your break bias and to work to fix it. From what I’ve seen, the easiest way to determine your break bias is to determine which breaking putt you are most likely to miss on the low side. So while I like Gate drills and the sort, you probably need to get on a Capto or SAM Puttlab and help identify stroke wise what’s causing the problem. I think green reading is extremely important, but from my experience if you stroke has some holes in it, you’d be amazed how your brain will try and trick you into making a read to compensate for it.

RH

> @juststeve said:

> Why do you think the problem is putting? To average 36 putts per round you must either hit every green, no one does that, or hardly ever get up and down in two. Putts per round comes down every time you chip and then one putt.

>

> Steve

It’s very doable. I averaged 14 green in reg all summer. And averaged 34 putts. But plenty of rounds where I had 36. When you literally make 20-25 fr of putts a round. That means you literally make 0 putts. Just tap ins. I had a 7 round streak going at one time doing that. It’s real.

> @bladehunter said:

> I agree with the above on the idea of the definition of insanity.

>

> Don’t keep on doing the same thing for 3 years like I have. Make a change big enough to reset the mind and ease up on expectations. My putting woes mirror yours as far as scoring average etc. my scoring average stayed around 74 which included many low rounds and many 75-77 blowup rounds. All hinging on putter. I swapped to an Armlock that is fitted to me and I’ve already Seen a short term average drop for last 6 weeks go to 71.3. Overall it’s down to 72.8 on my handicap stats.

> It’s not due to being “ locked “ either. It’s because it forced a new setup , ball position , and for whatever reason that setup etc is making the ball start online. This begat confidence, with in turn causes putts to fall , which then makes you feel like everything can go. It’s a domino effect.

>

> I can tell you that for me. It was bad enough that I no longer looked to make 6-8 footers. I just tried not to 3 putt. I have begged a ball to miss a green so that I had a pitch instead of a 35 foot putt etc. that’s how low my confidence got. Alll that was erased in a weeks time.

I could just echo this paragraph and it fits my year. I may look into switching set ups for awhile

> @bladehunter said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > Why do you think the problem is putting? To average 36 putts per round you must either hit every green, no one does that, or hardly ever get up and down in two. Putts per round comes down every time you chip and then one putt.

> >

> > Steve

>

> It’s very doable. I averaged 14 green in reg all summer. And averaged 34 putts. But plenty of rounds where I had 36. When you literally make 20-25 fr of putts a round. That means you literally make 0 putts. Just tap ins. I had a 7 round streak going at one time doing that. It’s real.

I've been hitting between 14-17 greens every tournament. And not leaving myself 50' putts usually, a lot looks inside of 10'. Even from 10' though I'm often hoping to simply 2 putt and literally have no expectation of making it. This has caused my birdied per round to drop to 1-2 (literal kick ins) so there's nothing to offset my 3 putts. IE, my last round hit 16/18 greens and had 37 putts en route to 73. I'm sure a huge part of this putting issue is between my ears, but that is a significant issue. Did 100 putts from 3' and then lag putting to a tee from 35' 50 times every day this past week, will let you know how it worked this weekend.

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > Three things all good putters do...and I bet you're missing at least 1 of these:

> > > 1) Eyes over the ball or slightly inside

> > > 2) Hands Slightly Forward at Address

> > > 3) Putter shaft in line with forearms *** this one is crucial that many don't pay attention to

> > >

> > > Also I assume you are using a blade putter. Might not be a bad idea to try out some mallets. I was blade putter for 20+ years and made the switch. New equipment isn't going to solve your problems, but I do find my Spider to be a little more forgiving than my blade.

> > >

> > > Also if you are missing shorts putts. I'd guess that you have an outside to inside path slightly or your lower body (hips, waist, legs) are moving with your stroke or combination of both. Try putting with a very still lower body and just use your core to swing the putter. And if it's a blade - make sure you are at least taking it away slightly inside, if you go outside to inside with a blade, it's really hard to putt it straight.

> > >

> > > And most people I see with inconsistent speed in putting have a very wristy stroke. Hard to be consistent with wrist action. I think that's why Left Hand Low got so popular fast. Easy way to take the wrist out.

> >

> > I do focus on 2/3 of those but not the putter shaft in line with the forearms, I will address that.

> > I normally use a Spider and do well with short putts but horrible on 10'+ with it for whatever reason. With my blade I'm using I do better (relatively) on longer putts but the trade off is on the shorter putts. I will check all of the things you have mentioned though as far as lower body stability is concerned! Thanks!

>

> Not really sure how you’d line up the shaft with both forearms. Forearms create a triangle. The shaft can’t be on both legs of that triangle.

A lot of times amateurs have the grip / shaft not in line with the forearms. This type of setup with forearms in line makes it much easier to putt accurately.

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @juststeve said:

> > > Why do you think the problem is putting? To average 36 putts per round you must either hit every green, no one does that, or hardly ever get up and down in two. Putts per round comes down every time you chip and then one putt.

> > >

> > > Steve

> >

> > It’s very doable. I averaged 14 green in reg all summer. And averaged 34 putts. But plenty of rounds where I had 36. When you literally make 20-25 fr of putts a round. That means you literally make 0 putts. Just tap ins. I had a 7 round streak going at one time doing that. It’s real.

>

> I've been hitting between 14-17 greens every tournament. And not leaving myself 50' putts usually, a lot looks inside of 10'. Even from 10' though I'm often hoping to simply 2 putt and literally have no expectation of making it. This has caused my birdied per round to drop to 1-2 (literal kick ins) so there's nothing to offset my 3 putts. IE, my last round hit 16/18 greens and had 37 putts en route to 73. I'm sure a huge part of this putting issue is between my ears, but that is a significant issue. Did 100 putts from 3' and then lag putting to a tee from 35' 50 times every day this past week, will let you know how it worked this weekend.

The thing is. I get what Steve is saying.

But I also get being that guy who’s putting doesn’t close to match the rest of his game. So the issue is actually reverse of what Steve is saying. It’s that you normally strike it so good that it puts tons of pressure on putter. As in it’s maddening to have so many good looks a round and make none or next to none. Especially of you play with guys who hit tons less greens and make a lot of putts. They score the same and can’t really strike their way out of a paper sack.

I only chime that in to defend the OP as I’ve been there. You mention this and immediately it’s assumed that your proximity is horrid ( causing 3 putts ) and that you must be inflating your green in reg and proximity stats. Why ? Because most players believe you cannot possibly be that lost with a putter. Yet they see examples of this on TV all the time.

It’s boils down to this in my experience. Which is extensive.

1. You likely have something wrong in setup that ties into either stroke and hitting the line. And or it effects sight of the line over the ball. You can’t hit a line you can’t see from address. So figure out if that’s part of it first. And if it is find out what you have to change to see the line from address.

2. Whatever that issue is is causing lines to be missed and or speed to be off. And no putts to be made.

3. The lack of anything going down kills confidence quick. And instills a sort of desperation. This causes you to press and grind over every putt.

4. The over inflated sense of urgency causes speed issues and this causes 3 ( and in my case 4 ) putts.

and 3 putts put a quarter in this merry go round to start the process again.

5. It all puts pressure back on your approach game. And even tee game. To hit it closer. Which some days when your on will work. But some days it will cause a lot of short sided misses. No stress putter is key to a balanced game. So find out why you aren’t hitting the line and find out if you can see the line and align putter to that at address. Then when your hitting that line every time you can analyze your reads and adjust. My point is. There’s a lot of cause and effect. And you have to figure it out in order , to really fix it.

For me it was as easy as a forward ball position that this armlock demands that got my dominant left eye ( im righty) down over the line and behind the ball. Once I could see I adjusted to hit the line. Once I trusted that , I learned to adjust the read to not compensate for the lack of consistency in line. And poof. Every putt scares the hole. 40 ft and in.

> @wagolfer7 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > @wagolfer7 said:

> > > > Three things all good putters do...and I bet you're missing at least 1 of these:

> > > > 1) Eyes over the ball or slightly inside

> > > > 2) Hands Slightly Forward at Address

> > > > 3) Putter shaft in line with forearms *** this one is crucial that many don't pay attention to

> > > >

> > > > Also I assume you are using a blade putter. Might not be a bad idea to try out some mallets. I was blade putter for 20+ years and made the switch. New equipment isn't going to solve your problems, but I do find my Spider to be a little more forgiving than my blade.

> > > >

> > > > Also if you are missing shorts putts. I'd guess that you have an outside to inside path slightly or your lower body (hips, waist, legs) are moving with your stroke or combination of both. Try putting with a very still lower body and just use your core to swing the putter. And if it's a blade - make sure you are at least taking it away slightly inside, if you go outside to inside with a blade, it's really hard to putt it straight.

> > > >

> > > > And most people I see with inconsistent speed in putting have a very wristy stroke. Hard to be consistent with wrist action. I think that's why Left Hand Low got so popular fast. Easy way to take the wrist out.

> > >

> > > I do focus on 2/3 of those but not the putter shaft in line with the forearms, I will address that.

> > > I normally use a Spider and do well with short putts but horrible on 10'+ with it for whatever reason. With my blade I'm using I do better (relatively) on longer putts but the trade off is on the shorter putts. I will check all of the things you have mentioned though as far as lower body stability is concerned! Thanks!

> >

> > Not really sure how you’d line up the shaft with both forearms. Forearms create a triangle. The shaft can’t be on both legs of that triangle.

> A lot of times amateurs have the grip / shaft not in line with the forearms. This type of setup with forearms in line makes it much easier to putt accurately.

>

>

>

Gotcha. I was thinking face on. I get you now.

I came in here to say the same thing wagolfer7 posted. If you can get past the awkwardness of a new grip, hinge your wrists straight down towards the ground and run the putter through your trail hand lifeline so the putter shaft matches your right forearm. this really dials in your club face control and you can manipulate the power of your stroke by changing the size of your shoulder turn. Good luck!!