Callaway Epic Forged iron struggles?

Has anyone struggled with their Epic Forged irons? I had a set of Apex CF16's previously and hit them very well. 4 handicap for reference. For the first couple week I hit them ok. They were definitely longer distance wise but erratic in distance. It would feel like I hit them the same and get 10yds of variance unexpectedly. Seems like the more I hit them the more erratic my shots are. I know they are 1* flat vs the CF16s and the swing weights are both D2, are the overall weights lighter? I can't quite figure them out. Any ideas?

Distance variance with a 27* 7 iron... how surprising.

Are you able to get on a trackman or other LM and see the variance in the carry distances?

Not sure if these irons would have hot spots on the faces. They say they are forged but I haven’t bothered to do enough research in to them but my hot metal pros have hot spots on them.

I don't think it's a matter of hotspots per say, it's almost like they come off dead or mishit or something but yet feel like I pured it. Would the total weight or being 1* flat from my last set play that much havoc?

I think being for a player that needs more distance and trying to make all shots feel good off the face has the club making not so good shots feeling great. Is that what you mean? If you mean you hitting to long or short too often and not your true distance marks then thats exactly what those clubs are and you maybe too good for them at a 4 handicap. I dont think theyre aimed at your category maybe. Seems like you want apex 19 or even pros 19

I found all cupface irons I’ve ever hit had the flier shot on them. I used CF16’s for a few months and struggled with distance consistency, every now and then I’d get a shot that went 15 yards further than the rest. I’m 3hc for ref, decided that I’d rather play something that was shorter but more reliable, now using Mizuno Mp18 SC and to be honest I wouldn’t want anything longer (7i goes 165yrd - which is perfect for me).

This is how all the "modern tech" irons behave for me.

I have tried most of them, i500, P790, HBM20 etc. they all go way too far, spin way too little and do not give consistent distances.

For me I don't ned to hit my 7 iron 200 yards, so I stick with a club that gives me consistent distances on every shot. If I miss the middle then I am ok with losing some distance, because I missed the middle.

I am a decent standard +index and really have a dislike for all the modern style clubs with hollow faces etc.

I am fine with it though, because I realise that these are not designed or promoted for my player category.

In answer to the question, 1 degree lie difference would make little to no difference - I doubt you would even be able to tell.

> @Zigzog said:

> This is how all the "modern tech" irons behave for me.

>

> I have tried most of them, i500, P790, HBM20 etc. they all go way too far, spin way too little and do not give consistent distances.

>

> For me I don't ned to hit my 7 iron 200 yards, so I stick with a club that gives me consistent distances on every shot. If I miss the middle then I am ok with losing some distance, because I missed the middle.

>

> I am a decent standard +index and really have a dislike for all the modern style clubs with hollow faces etc.

>

> I am fine with it though, because I realise that these are not designed or promoted for my player category.

>

> In answer to the question, 1 degree lie difference would make little to no difference - I doubt you would even be able to tell.

This is all spot on. I understand why they exist but I do think if you want consistency it’s pretty much the opposite of what you want.

A guy I play with is about 30 years older than I am. He’s quite a decent player. He’s got a bad back and feels like he’s losing speed so went from 714 AP2 to G700.

I was shocked when I played with him. He used to hit great shots and even after over a year with the hollow SGIs his shots were so erratic. No distance control and massive deterioration in accuracy. IMO if he had have just accepted the slightly shorter distance he may be chasing pins still.

It's all about strike location. Once again if all of these distance irons had "hot spots" that increased distances by 10 yards, then they would never pass C.O.R. testing.

Sometimes going to a larger club face can take some time to find out where that "center" strike is. And for some players, lower spin irons put them so close to that low spin knuckle ball range, that small variations in strike location can drop the spin below that line. Thus causing low spin fliers like you may see out of the rough. So yes these low spin irons can produce fliers, but they are from strike locations, not "hot spots".

I would try some impact tape, or foot spray to see exactly where your impacts are. Maybe you will be able to find that "sweetspot" of consistency. Or you may even find that the margin of error on your new irons is too small for your game. I know when I first played my G700's it took me a few rounds to realize that a miss to the heel side was generally fine, but the same miss to the tow side wiuld lose a lot of spin and occasionally produce a flier.

> @balls_deep said:

>

> This is all spot on. I understand why they exist but I do think if you want consistency it’s pretty much the opposite of what you want.

>

> A guy I play with is about 30 years older than I am. He’s quite a decent player. He’s got a bad back and feels like he’s losing speed so went from 714 AP2 to G700.

>

> I was shocked when I played with him. He used to hit great shots and even after over a year with the hollow SGIs his shots were so erratic. No distance control and massive deterioration in accuracy. IMO if he had have just accepted the slightly shorter distance he may be chasing pins still.

These past five years I've been losing swing speed like crazy. Nothing I do seems to stop it. I did toy with the SGI irons for a few rounds but I couldn't live with the occasional 10-15 yard boomer because yes, accuracy > distance.

What I've done and am quite happy with is start investing in my driver. I used to use small headed drivers or a strong 3 but now I've gone full into the max head size drivers and gained 10 yards or so. I can then take the distance loss in irons and not fool around with the scoring clubs too much.

The further you hit it, the larger the margin of error becomes

Not shocked. These "hot faced" irons are hot garbage for skilled players. Excellent if you plan to grab a 4i as use it as a driving iron, but not really the best choice for shot making.

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> The further you hit it, the larger the margin of error becomes

That's absolutely true. And while I can live with being left or right of the pin by 10 yards, nothing disappoints me more nowadays than being on target line but 10 yards long.

You hit the ball perfectly, feels awesome... and then you just sail over the target. Complete letdown.

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > The further you hit it, the larger the margin of error becomes

>

> That's absolutely true. And while I can live with being left or right of the pin by 10 yards, nothing disappoints me more nowadays than being on target line but 10 yards long.

In a perfect world...

I have to chime in because quite frankly I am very confused towards the trend in these types of irons. My previous set was an off the rack Titleist 718 CB with PX LZ 6.0. The 6 iron in that set is 31 degrees. I hit that club 195. I was fitted for the whole bag in August by my pro at my club and he fit me into the new P790s with C Taper 130X. The P790 7 iron is 30.5 degrees and that has become my 195 yard club. Never have had any so called fliers and every iron from 4 thru Gap I hit my number and can easily take some off for a controlled knockdown if need be.

In my short experience, I believe being fitted for these types of clubs with the right shaft makes the world of difference. And when you have the right shaft, I still believe the loft of the club determines how far the ball will go. I have not seen any evidence in over 2 months and about 30 rounds of use to tell me otherwise. I used to be totally against the hollow body irons and any type of game improvement iron, but I firmly believe being fit into the set properly is what makes them tick.

> @iceman1118 said:

> I have to chime in because quite frankly I am very confused towards the trend in these types of irons. My previous set was an off the rack Titleist 718 CB with PX LZ 6.0. The 6 iron in that set is 31 degrees. I hit that club 195. I was fitted for the whole bag in August by my pro at my club and he fit me into the new P790s with C Taper 130X. The P790 7 iron is 30.5 degrees and that has become my 195 yard club. Never have had any so called fliers and every iron from 4 thru Gap I hit my number and can easily take some off for a controlled knockdown if need be.

>

> In my short experience, I believe being fitted for these types of clubs with the right shaft makes the world of difference. And when you have the right shaft, I still believe the loft of the club determines how far the ball will go. I have not seen any evidence in over 2 months and about 30 rounds of use to tell me otherwise. I used to be totally against the hollow body irons and any type of game improvement iron, but I firmly believe being fit into the set properly is what makes them tick.

Thank you. This is so true. Most other posts in here are just baseless rants.

@KRCGolf Have the shafts changed? What are the exact specs of the Epics vs. Exact specs of Apex. A 27* 7i doesn't matter, as there are some people that are super consistent at that loft as a 6i or 5i; it's all about if the balance, weight, and profile of the shaft match. I mean if you were playing Apex with KBS Tour V in them and moved to the 80g graphite, it doesn't surprise me as that is roughly a 20g drop in weight....it might take some time to adjust.

> @WristySwing said:

> > @iceman1118 said:

> > I have to chime in because quite frankly I am very confused towards the trend in these types of irons. My previous set was an off the rack Titleist 718 CB with PX LZ 6.0. The 6 iron in that set is 31 degrees. I hit that club 195. I was fitted for the whole bag in August by my pro at my club and he fit me into the new P790s with C Taper 130X. The P790 7 iron is 30.5 degrees and that has become my 195 yard club. Never have had any so called fliers and every iron from 4 thru Gap I hit my number and can easily take some off for a controlled knockdown if need be.

> >

> > In my short experience, I believe being fitted for these types of clubs with the right shaft makes the world of difference. And when you have the right shaft, I still believe the loft of the club determines how far the ball will go. I have not seen any evidence in over 2 months and about 30 rounds of use to tell me otherwise. I used to be totally against the hollow body irons and any type of game improvement iron, but I firmly believe being fit into the set properly is what makes them tick.

>

> Thank you. This is so true. Most other posts in here are just baseless rants.

>

I tend to agree. Not trying to start any problems but I just get the sense people have either had poor experiences with an off the rack purchase or just improperly fit. The pro at my club is a plus 2 handicap. He has used the 2017 P790s since they came out and he switched over to the 2019 model when they came out. Same story, as long as he uses the shaft he needs he is fine and can hit any shot he wants with no consequences.

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> The further you hit it, the larger the margin of error becomes

More truth in this quote , than many want to admit !!

> @iceman1118 said:

> I have to chime in because quite frankly I am very confused towards the trend in these types of irons. My previous set was an off the rack Titleist 718 CB with PX LZ 6.0. The 6 iron in that set is 31 degrees. I hit that club 195. I was fitted for the whole bag in August by my pro at my club and he fit me into the new P790s with C Taper 130X. The P790 7 iron is 30.5 degrees and that has become my 195 yard club. Never have had any so called fliers and every iron from 4 thru Gap I hit my number and can easily take some off for a controlled knockdown if need be.

>

> In my short experience, I believe being fitted for these types of clubs with the right shaft makes the world of difference. And when you have the right shaft, I still believe the loft of the club determines how far the ball will go. I have not seen any evidence in over 2 months and about 30 rounds of use to tell me otherwise. I used to be totally against the hollow body irons and any type of game improvement iron, but I firmly believe being fit into the set properly is what makes them tick.

Honestly, loft for loft, I find it very weird that you're hitting those two clubs the same distance. Those shafts could not be more different. Fit into the 790 with that shaft I would guess you would be balloon city with those CBs. Did your game improve after?

> Thank you. This is so true. Most other posts in here are just baseless rants.

>

You can see the irony of your comment?

I agree a badly fitted iron can produce inconsistencies, but that’s not exclusive to players improvement irons.

I’ve experienced it first hand, and several playing friends have sold similar irons for the same reasons.

Just ordered P790's myself. Was fitted. Thought is that the distance gains I was seeing over Ping iE1's will put me closer to the greens, so scoring clubs will become more important. Will I need to figure out the 8-W, yes. I also added 3 glide 3.0's (50-54-58). I guess I'll find out about fliers, if I am attacking from 180 plus, but at a 13 index I thought it was worth the chance and 90% of reviews say no issues.

> @balls_deep said:

> > @iceman1118 said:

> > I have to chime in because quite frankly I am very confused towards the trend in these types of irons. My previous set was an off the rack Titleist 718 CB with PX LZ 6.0. The 6 iron in that set is 31 degrees. I hit that club 195. I was fitted for the whole bag in August by my pro at my club and he fit me into the new P790s with C Taper 130X. The P790 7 iron is 30.5 degrees and that has become my 195 yard club. Never have had any so called fliers and every iron from 4 thru Gap I hit my number and can easily take some off for a controlled knockdown if need be.

> >

> > In my short experience, I believe being fitted for these types of clubs with the right shaft makes the world of difference. And when you have the right shaft, I still believe the loft of the club determines how far the ball will go. I have not seen any evidence in over 2 months and about 30 rounds of use to tell me otherwise. I used to be totally against the hollow body irons and any type of game improvement iron, but I firmly believe being fit into the set properly is what makes them tick.

>

> Honestly, loft for loft, I find it very weird that you're hitting those two clubs the same distance. Those shafts could not be more different. Fit into the 790 with that shaft I would guess you would be balloon city with those CBs. Did your game improve after?

I was ballooning the CBs like crazy as my game improved. I was a 12 to start the season but I joined a club mid summer and started taking lessons and my game improved almost instantly. I got down to a 9 before I hit the bullet and got fitted because I was no longer hitting my numbers with irons or wedges. All shots were ballooning and spinning like crazy. In two months with the new sticks I came down from 9 to 7.4. So my game has improved but so has my swing. Again, small sample size but I have to imagine at this point it is going hand in hand.

Also, a number of people at my place have been fitted into the new 790s and everyone is happy. I can honestly report that there has not been one scenario where someone flew their number with an iron.

> @Holeoot said:

>

> > Thank you. This is so true. Most other posts in here are just baseless rants.

> >

>

> You can see the irony of your comment?

>

> I agree a badly fitted iron can produce inconsistencies, but that’s not exclusive to players improvement irons.

>

> I’ve experienced it first hand, and several playing friends have sold similar irons for the same reasons.

>

>

>

>

>

>

Were you or your playing friends fitted or were they off the rack purchases? Serious question

Can’t say for sure on all of them but I know at least two of them were fitted for them (and I’m the third) and 2 out of the 3 were in Callaway irons with cupface tech. I have tried the p790s (demo club) and thought they were good, I can’t comment on them specifically. My own original comment and experience was on CF16 irons and in reference to the epic forged, which shares the same face technology.

> @Holeoot said:

> Can’t say for sure on all of them but I know at least two of them were fitted for them (and I’m the third) and 2 out of the 3 were in Callaway irons with cupface tech. I have tried the p790s (demo club) and thought they were good, I can’t comment on them specifically. My own original comment and experience was on CF16 irons and in reference to the epic forged, which shares the same face technology.

I can’t comment on the cup face tech. Not many, if any, callaway irons at my place and other players I know elsewhere don’t use them either.

> @Holeoot said:

>

> > Thank you. This is so true. Most other posts in here are just baseless rants.

> >

>

> You can see the irony of your comment?

>

> I agree a badly fitted iron can produce inconsistencies, but that’s not exclusive to players improvement irons.

>

> I’ve experienced it first hand, and several playing friends have sold similar irons for the same reasons.

>

>

>

>

>

>

Call it what you will, but I've fit a lot in over 15 years of experience. Sure fliers happen, but for them to be the rule rather than the exception is not my experience both personally and anecdotally from my fits after a few weeks-months of playing them. I've played hot faced irons, forgiving, jumpy irons (current irons, G700s, etc) and more traditional clubs (OG NIke blades for a couple of seasons). My club is my club, and my distance is my distance. I don't find "jumpy" irons to be crazy long, crazy low spin, or erratic. Quite the opposite for a lot of people actually.

Here is some empirical data from this site that supports my claims with numbers: https://forums.golfwrx.com/discussion/1512102/are-all-7-irons-created-equal-the-answer-is-yes

A 4 handi playing Epic forged? Is issue distance?

Bigger issue for me isnt the hot spots but with stronger lofts and lower descent angle they hit the green and take off. Who cares if you can hit a 7 iron 20 yards father with these if dont hold a green.

Exactly why I had to stop playing the Epic Pro when they came out. Was hitting 7 iron 220 but couldn't stop it on a green to save my life. Or really figure out what to hit from 200-240 haha

Yeah, I had thought that in the past but I never had issues with holding a green. Then I saw a video on YT (I think it was by TXG) explaining why the modern clubs could hold greens so I didn't question it anymore.