How many Tour careers has Ledbetter wrecked so far?

[simplemind]

I just read this thread for the first time, and WOW, I thought I was the only one who thought Leadbetter was a scam. How in the world did he ever get to the status he has I don't know, but I do know after watching some of his teaching drills, etc. I thought he was full of $ _ _ _!

[scores]

You are better off trying for the regular tour. The senior tour is kind of a joke!!! You can only go to tour school to try and monday qualify.. That tells me there are people that are scared of guys like an ogrady or a club pro that could come in and win!! and have won

[Bruin_golf]

It looks like Leadbetter doesn't wreck everyone!!! Looked like a pretty easy victory for Immelman.

[patj]

Leadbetter hasn't hit a shot for any of these players. It all rests on their shoulders not his. Coaches in every sport get to much credit when the team/player does well and to much grief when they lose. As far as mechanics go, I could teach you the mechanics to throw a perfect fastball, but chances are you wouldn't make it through an inning against the New York Yankees. You guys that are ripping Leadbetter are probably the same guys that argue that your favorite team got outcoached everytime they lose a close game. It is BS and you know it.

[jimmyteeball]

Pak has been working with Tom Creavy for years... and left Ledbetter in 2001 or before...

[broth518]

Yeah what about giving him props for Immelman...

 

Without lead he wouldn't have won the masters!

[HeadonaStick]

Mr. Leadbetter hasn't wrecked anyone's career. The player and the player alone is responsible for how they play. It's their career, and their career alone.

I don't know if Leadbetter has wrecked any careers, but if you go to a coach then they are at least partly responsible for the outcome - if you don't listen to your coach there isn't much point in going to see them. You practice what your coach teaches.

 

If I teach someone the incorrect way to solve a quadratic equation, whose fault is it when the student can't solve a quadratic properly, if they practice and execute what I teach them?

 

Leadbetter hasn't hit a shot for any of these players. It all rests on their shoulders not his. Coaches in every sport get to much credit when the team/player does well and to much grief when they lose. As far as mechanics go, I could teach you the mechanics to throw a perfect fastball, but chances are you wouldn't make it through an inning against the New York Yankees. You guys that are ripping Leadbetter are probably the same guys that argue that your favorite team got outcoached everytime they lose a close game. It is BS and you know it.

 

Why have a coach then?

 

I wish you guys felt the same way about teachers in schools - school might actual be better than they are. Teachers are not responsible for what a student puts into their studies (be they golf or math) but they are responsible to assure that they impart good information and techniques to their students.

[dlygrisse]

Don't forget Aree and Naree Song, Seve Ballesteros and David Gossett.

 

 

 

GET YOUR facts right, Aree and Naree and Gossett worked with Jonathan Yarwood, they never worked with Lead.

 

 

Seve didnt work with him that long, Seve was on his instructor of the month kick for several years. Seve's bad back and his stubborness wrecked his swing, not to mention the fact that he changed his swing about 100 times over a period of several years.

[dlygrisse]

I just read this thread for the first time, and WOW, I thought I was the only one who thought Leadbetter was a scam. How in the world did he ever get to the status he has I don't know, but I do know after watching some of his teaching drills, etc. I thought he was full of $ _ _ _!

 

 

Ledbetter got to where he is by re-building Faldo's swing and getting him to #1 in the world, then he did the same for Nick Price. He has had some great success and failures through the years. I would say he is a great teacher if you like a lot of technical stuff, but a horrible teacher if you are more feel oriented. Quite frankely I find his teaching style annoying, but that is just my opinion.

[Newnoggin]

The chances of being helped by Leadbetter or any famous coach is probably 50%. It depends more on you than the coach. Tne fundamentals haven't changed for decades.

[Dean21]

Doc!?!? You're telling me......you built a time machine.......out of a DeLorean????

[Denny71]

He is a revolutionary. People are jealous of these types

Close thread now

[jons1]

Leadbetter personifies the 80s position golf / style based teaching. If you put the club here, here, and here, you will play good golf. If you swing like Ben Hogan, and tie your arms down to your body, you'll play better. etc. Faldo made that guys career explode, and it's all old school stuff that I would consider to be average at best. I don't dislike him as a teacher, but I wouldn't pay to see the guy. I'm not sure I'd even take a lesson if it was $100 to be honest.

For some reason, every little girl from Asia wants to be tutored by him. It's like he's running an illegal golf immigration program in Orlando or something. And the girls all end up way too mechanical imo. Wie is a great example of natural talent being hurt by manipulating the club into positions. Sure, her health has been a non-stop issue in her career, but what has he really done from the age of 14 to now to help anything but his wallet?

[rangersgoalie]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1436750368' post='11936516']
Ledbetter personifies the 80s position golf / style based teaching. If you put the club here, here, and here, you will play good golf. If you swing like Ben Hogan, and tie your arms down to your body, you'll play better. etc. Faldo made that guys career explode, and it's all old school stuff that I would consider to be average at best. I don't dislike him as a teacher, but I wouldn't pay to see the guy. I'm not sure I'd even take a lesson if it was $100 to be honest.

For some reason, every little girl from Asia wants to be tutored by him. It's like he's running an illegal golf immigration program in Orlando or something. And the girls all end up way too mechanical imo. Wie is a great example of natural talent being hurt by manipulating the club into positions. Sure, her health has been a non-stop issue in her career, but what has he really done from the age of 14 to now to help anything but his wallet?
[/quote]

I had to opportunity to work with David starting in '89. I was a decent mini tour player, but not improving. Decided I needed
to do something to improve enough to play for a living.. In July I made the commitment to change my swing, and jumped in
full bore. Changed my grip, posture, and entire method of swinging the club. Learned the motion through drills I was
given to FEEL the swing. I am a visual and feel guy, not a technician. David fit the teaching to me, as I witnessed him do with
his other instructors. It was fascinating to watch him with Faldo back then and the unbelievable amount of technical detail they
went in to, and then watch him work with Price, and talk about something simple like softening his legs a bit through the swing.
Then to me, and giving me a couple of drills to work on when I was home.

The only drawback was how busy he was, and the difficulty to get in when I was lost.

I am now trying to play a a bit again, and approached David for help after not playing for nearly a decade (health).
As I mentioned before on this site, I am doing the "a" swing, but unlike what I read in this forum, it is not technical
and over analyzed, a very simple starting thought (keeping the clubhead way more outside my hands), and the feel
of being much more in synch from transition through the impact area.

I"ve never understood the vitriol aimed at any teacher, and get pissed when I hear it about David. He has been a great
teacher for me, and good friend, and now, a great mentor.

I've been very lucky to have the opportunity to work with him

[jons1]

[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1436757335' post='11937248']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1436750368' post='11936516']
Ledbetter personifies the 80s position golf / style based teaching. If you put the club here, here, and here, you will play good golf. If you swing like Ben Hogan, and tie your arms down to your body, you'll play better. etc. Faldo made that guys career explode, and it's all old school stuff that I would consider to be average at best. I don't dislike him as a teacher, but I wouldn't pay to see the guy. I'm not sure I'd even take a lesson if it was $100 to be honest.

For some reason, every little girl from Asia wants to be tutored by him. It's like he's running an illegal golf immigration program in Orlando or something. And the girls all end up way too mechanical imo. Wie is a great example of natural talent being hurt by manipulating the club into positions. Sure, her health has been a non-stop issue in her career, but what has he really done from the age of 14 to now to help anything but his wallet?
[/quote]

I had to opportunity to work with David starting in '89. I was a decent mini tour player, but not improving. Decided I needed
to do something to improve enough to play for a living.. In July I made the commitment to change my swing, and jumped in
full bore. Changed my grip, posture, and entire method of swinging the club. Learned the motion through drills I was
given to FEEL the swing. I am a visual and feel guy, not a technician. David fit the teaching to me, as I witnessed him do with
his other instructors. It was fascinating to watch him with Faldo back then and the unbelievable amount of technical detail they
went in to, and then watch him work with Price, and talk about something simple like softening his legs a bit through the swing.
Then to me, and giving me a couple of drills to work on when I was home.

The only drawback was how busy he was, and the difficulty to get in when I was lost.

I am now trying to play a a bit again, and approached David for help after not playing for nearly a decade (health).
As I mentioned before on this site, I am doing the "a" swing, but unlike what I read in this forum, it is not technical
and over analyzed, a very simple starting thought (keeping the clubhead way more outside my hands), and the feel
of being much more in synch from transition through the impact area.

I"ve never understood the vitriol aimed at any teacher, and get pissed when I hear it about David. He has been a great
teacher for me, and good friend, and now, a great mentor.

I've been very lucky to have the opportunity to work with him
[/quote]


Everything you described is what I don't like about instructors like Ledbetter, which is what turns off others.

You were a mini tour player, so you don't suck, but you had some weaknesses that didn't get you over the hump. Did he work on a few basic things and target the specific small areas that statistically you're weaker in, while mentally boosting your confidence like a guru ninja ala a Butch Harmon? Nope. He completely dissected your full swing and sent you down a complete overhaul path, and then was too busy when you were confused and lost from essentially changing everything that you built and that came natural to you to become a mini tour player. To me, that's really messed up. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but that's how I read it, and I've heard the story WAY too many times. What would Ledbetter do with Jordan Spieth... he'd rip everything he does apart. 2 majors at 21.

Do I think he's a bad guy, nope. Do I think he's intentionally hurting golfers, nope. Has he had success as a teacher, a ton. Doesn't change the fact that not all teachers are good for all players, and I personally do not like guys that pull the overhaul routine.

[Splitter]

[attachment=2851338:image.jpg]

[ALIF]

Monte has a few good stories about David. Maybe he will chime in?

[rangersgoalie]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1436758328' post='11937346']
[quote name='rangersgoalie' timestamp='1436757335' post='11937248']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1436750368' post='11936516']
Ledbetter personifies the 80s position golf / style based teaching. If you put the club here, here, and here, you will play good golf. If you swing like Ben Hogan, and tie your arms down to your body, you'll play better. etc. Faldo made that guys career explode, and it's all old school stuff that I would consider to be average at best. I don't dislike him as a teacher, but I wouldn't pay to see the guy. I'm not sure I'd even take a lesson if it was $100 to be honest.

For some reason, every little girl from Asia wants to be tutored by him. It's like he's running an illegal golf immigration program in Orlando or something. And the girls all end up way too mechanical imo. Wie is a great example of natural talent being hurt by manipulating the club into positions. Sure, her health has been a non-stop issue in her career, but what has he really done from the age of 14 to now to help anything but his wallet?
[/quote]

I had to opportunity to work with David starting in '89. I was a decent mini tour player, but not improving. Decided I needed
to do something to improve enough to play for a living.. In July I made the commitment to change my swing, and jumped in
full bore. Changed my grip, posture, and entire method of swinging the club. Learned the motion through drills I was
given to FEEL the swing. I am a visual and feel guy, not a technician. David fit the teaching to me, as I witnessed him do with
his other instructors. It was fascinating to watch him with Faldo back then and the unbelievable amount of technical detail they
went in to, and then watch him work with Price, and talk about something simple like softening his legs a bit through the swing.
Then to me, and giving me a couple of drills to work on when I was home.

The only drawback was how busy he was, and the difficulty to get in when I was lost.

I am now trying to play a a bit again, and approached David for help after not playing for nearly a decade (health).
As I mentioned before on this site, I am doing the "a" swing, but unlike what I read in this forum, it is not technical
and over analyzed, a very simple starting thought (keeping the clubhead way more outside my hands), and the feel
of being much more in synch from transition through the impact area.

I"ve never understood the vitriol aimed at any teacher, and get pissed when I hear it about David. He has been a great
teacher for me, and good friend, and now, a great mentor.

I've been very lucky to have the opportunity to work with him
[/quote]


Everything you described is what I don't like about instructors like Ledbetter, which is what turns off others.

You were a mini tour player, so you don't suck, but you had some weaknesses that didn't get you over the hump. Did he work on a few basic things and target the specific small areas that statistically you're weaker in, while mentally boosting your confidence like a guru ninja ala a Butch Harmon? Nope. He completely dissected your full swing and sent you down a complete overhaul path, and then was too busy when you were confused and lost from essentially changing everything that you built and that came natural to you to become a mini tour player. To me, that's really messed up. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but that's how I read it, and I've heard the story WAY too many times. What would Ledbetter do with Jordan Spieth... he'd rip everything he does apart. 2 majors at 21.

Do I think he's a bad guy, nope. Do I think he's intentionally hurting golfers, nope. Has he had success as a teacher, a ton. Doesn't change the fact that not all teachers are good for all players, and I personally do not like guys that pull the overhaul routine.
[/quote]

I should have been clearer, sorry.
I started in July of '89 and made wholesale changes in my game. I qualified for the tour at qschool that fall, less than 4 months after
making the changes. I played a total of 7 years, plus a few on the Hogan/Nike/Buy.com tour. Also played overseas in Australia.
Wasn't a world beater by any stretch, but kept my card for a bit, and had to stop after destroying my wrist in an ill fated shot out of a bush in '97.
The overhaul got me on tour. I also had a lot of help from other instructors to keep me out there, but Lead was an enormous part of helping to get out there.

{{EDIT}}
I also wanted to add that I worked with Butch a few times as well back in the early 90's
Helped me tremendously, especially my putting

[MaccaRayDudley]

I don't understand all the venom aimed at David Leadbetter on this forum. He was a pioneer in many respects. Faldo's success may have put him on the map, but Leadbetter was a successful instructor teaching tour players before he met Faldo (interestingly somebody else who's also regularly used as a punch bag.......). He's coached players to 19 major championships, more than 100 tour wins and 6 of his players reached world number 1. I don't think there are very many instructors out there that can top that. i don't think it's fair at all to bash this guy. His teaching materials/methods are as valid and as good as anything else out there.

[PJ72]

[quote name='Shaitan' timestamp='1192863338' post='761032']
I don't know leadbetter's teachings and I don't follow them, but I think it is stupid for any teacher to teach with a tee for irons unless the players are new. How many times do you hit an iron off of a tee during a normal round? No tee=divot=ball compression and spin. When I'm hitting the ball poorly I find either a divot, board or hard dirt to practice off as I find this will teach you how to hit the ball quicksmart. My last lesson I had to widen my swing and i wasn't taking a divot, so it took about a round to fix it. If I had a tee, it would have taken me one round to realise the issues and think of how to fix it without changing my swing change and then practice and another round to get it right - in other words a waste of a lesson.
[/quote]

You don't need to take divot to get compression, in fact you get better compression without one.

But I do agree that teeing the ball up for an iron shot makes it easier than what we would experience on the course, so why do it? I think maybe it takes the 'hit' impulse out of the shot to some extent.

[Biomateur]

Yes, typical. Lead is all the evil so is Haney, etc. Typical bullxxxx of those who are not good enough to go high enough.

[bluedot]

[quote name='PJ72' timestamp='1438382992' post='12056726']
[quote name='Shaitan' timestamp='1192863338' post='761032']
I don't know leadbetter's teachings and I don't follow them, but I think it is stupid for any teacher to teach with a tee for irons unless the players are new. How many times do you hit an iron off of a tee during a normal round? No tee=divot=ball compression and spin. When I'm hitting the ball poorly I find either a divot, board or hard dirt to practice off as I find this will teach you how to hit the ball quicksmart. My last lesson I had to widen my swing and i wasn't taking a divot, so it took about a round to fix it. If I had a tee, it would have taken me one round to realise the issues and think of how to fix it without changing my swing change and then practice and another round to get it right - in other words a waste of a lesson.
[/quote]

You don't need to take divot to get compression, in fact you get better compression without one.

But I do agree that teeing the ball up for an iron shot makes it easier than what we would experience on the course, so why do it? I think maybe it takes the 'hit' impulse out of the shot to some extent.
[/quote]

Whatever the case, lots of instructors do this; I think it may have originated with Claude Harmon.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Newnoggin' timestamp='1436746333' post='11936096']The chances of being helped by Leadbetter or any famous coach is probably 50%. It depends more on you than the coach. Tne fundamentals haven't changed for decades.[/quote]

Wow, you resurrected a 7 year old thread for that?

[Wknd_Warrior]

lol @ thread title

[OTTgolf]

[quote name='Wknd_Warrior' timestamp='1438398932' post='12058012']
lol @ thread title
[/quote]

Ledbetter

[Molnar59]

Lydia Ko... Ledbetter is so removed from reality he still tries to influence her from afar...

[HackerD]

11 years plus and still going strong. Amazing.

[chigolfer1]

He's not big on taking the high ground I see, lol

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/golf/112293470/complete-ignorance--excoach-david-leadbetter-defends-work-with-lydia-ko

[Max.bowie]

The simplest way to put it, is that Ledbetter takes players who own their swing, and teaches positions, under the guise of ‘tuning up’. The player eventually plays positions that are unnatural to the swing they once owned, and are not sustainable. Soon enough, they don’t own the swing they built before crossing paths with him, and are either tied in knots (Faldo), or physically destroyed (Wie). Then the most telling part of him comes out: He blames everybody else: the player’s personal life, family, or ‘team’, and moves on to his next victim.

I know 3 world class tour player coaches…who I’ll leave unnamed for obvious reasons…and all of them consider him the anti-Christ of coaching. 
His career is perpetuated by the lazy ‘he’s worked with…’ credits, rather than “what happened by the time he was finished with them’ credits.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Max.bowie

[jholz]

How could anyone trust a guy who wore that hat?