Joining a Club, why?

[WestCoastHacker]

Quality of the golf and easy access to the tee were the top priorities for me. My neck of the woods still seems to have lots of interest in public golf and the daily fee courses are a real mixed bag.

[DonatelloNobodie]

When joining, realize that your initiation fees are gone. A neighbor saw his club go bankrupt and close. The $50K that he'd paid only 2 years earlier was gone. Also, you may have difficulty getting a "refundable" initiation refunded, unless here are new members to replace you. Google and you'll find many lawsuits by club members trying to get their refunds. The moral of the story is to look at a club's financials before joining to ensure that it is not in trouble or over-leveraged, and to read the fine print of the joining documents. There are lots of solid and stable clubs out there, but also many that will fold in coming years as golf demand declines.

[Joselo]

in my club i have a fix tee time on Saturdays at 7:55 AM every Saturday all year long

i don't bother making reservations on weekdays, just go out there and play whatever amount of holes i want after work

 

[medicoreMAgolfer]

> @DonatelloNobodie said:

> When joining, realize that your initiation fees are gone. A neighbor saw his club go bankrupt and close. The $50K that he'd paid only 2 years earlier was gone. Also, you may have difficulty getting a "refundable" initiation refunded, unless here are new members to replace you. Google and you'll find many lawsuits by club members trying to get their refunds. The moral of the story is to look at a club's financials before joining to ensure that it is not in trouble or over-leveraged, and to read the fine print of the joining documents. There are lots of solid and stable clubs out there, but also many that will fold in coming years as golf demand declines.

 

As a PSA, if looking into an equity owned club that files as a non-profit, you can access financial records by searching the clubs form 990s (equivalent to a 1040 for your personal return). Two things to pay attention to - 1) debt level and 2) YOY revenue growth. Profitability is not worth reviewing as these clubs try to operate at break-even

 

[gregkeller]

> @medicoreMAgolfer said:

 

> As a PSA, if looking into an equity owned club that files as a non-profit, you can access financial records by searching the clubs form 990s (equivalent to a 1040 for your personal return). Two things to pay attention to - 1) debt level and 2) YOY revenue growth. Profitability is not worth reviewing as these clubs try to operate at break-even

>

 

If you were looking at a club, what kind of debt level and revenue growth would make you think twice? also, when looking at those 990s, where would I see those two values? I took a look at two of the local equity clubs near me and both seemed to operate at about a 200k loss the last years that I found records for. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me as debt level and YOY revenue growth though (I'm a science teacher, not an accountant :)

 

[North Butte]

My dues pay for my ability to play the best course within 50 miles of my home, any time I like and to walk instead of riding in a cart. If I could play a course this good whenever I want by simply showing up and paying a green fee I'd do it. But nothing remotely close to that option exists in public golf in my area. And the halfway decent publics aren't interested in having walking golfers.

 

OTOH, if I didn't have much money to spend on golf I'd just show up to the local muni whenever I could get a tee time and I'd still be happy as a pig in slop to be out there playing golf. It's just hard to even think about going back to a crowded, beat-up, mediocre course after a couple decades playing a truly excellent one!

[Roody]

I just joined my first private club back in August of last year. The positives are no tee times needed, course upkeep is better than most (if not all) public courses, a regular group of guys to play with, fun social events, women's league for my wife, and all the extra facilities like locker, range, and club storage.

 

So far I love it. My wife is even loving it, and is heading over tonight for an informational meeting on the various golf events and leagues that are going to be available for the women. I enjoy going over to men's night on Wednesdays after work for a drink and dinner. I only live about 3 minutes from there, so heading over to use the range whenever I want is convenient. I feel like I could go on and on about the value.

 

And the last comment I will echo is if cost-per-round value is important to you, then don't bother joining a private club. You will not be able to justify the cost that way. You have to justify it by all the other things you get out of it.

[robdalky]

The one other advantage is the availability of tons of member only and member guest tournaments. Match play, stroke play, team games, etc, once or twice a month, really well run with really good competition, super fun.

 

As said previously, you can’t do any kind of math to make it a “deal”. It is a more expensive way to play golf, period. However, it’s better (if you join a good club), for all of the reasons listed above (unlimited practice, golf, club where you can eat and drink and the family can hang at the pool, fast pace of play, MGA, etc.).

[RichieHunt]

Pace of play and quality of golf were tops. The other is that I can play according to my schedule for the most part. If I'm late for a tee time, it's not a big deal. And often times I'm not sure if I'm going to play as I might just practice. If I decide to play, it's not big deal.

 

The staff treats us very well and there's a lot of golfers that are enjoyable to play with.

 

As far as the course goes, it's a good track, fair but challenging. And it's probably better for a golfer's game than 90% of golf courses out there.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Philomathesq]

Obviously, every situation is different, but one of the main reasons I joined a private club _was_ for the value. I'm not sure how all clubs work, but at mine I pay a monthly fee which entitles me to all the golf I want, including use of the range, without cost. Last week, my wife, my two kids, and I played four rounds (this amount was more than we normally play). Had we done the same thing at the local course that is open to the public, it would have cost us nearly $1,000 (the public course is $60 per round). And that is just one week. And, if I were to use the public range, it's $15 for a bucket. As a family, we probably average 40 buckets per month and 25 rounds per month (this is all four of us combined). If we were not part of a club, the cost for that much golf would be about $3,000 per month, plus whatever cart fees there are at the public course (I have not idea what the cart fees are, but I'm sure they cost something).

 

All that to say, even if the value proposition weren't there, the course is exponentially cleaner and nicer than public courses, pace of play is great, it is never "crowded," and people are, generally, much friendlier.

[RainShadow]

> @ctsgolf said:

> Nothing worse than paying $45+ and hooking your first tee ball OB.

> Nothing worse than 5 1/2 rounds behind complete idiots that have fallen 3 holes behind the group in front of them

> Nothing worse than showing up to a public course on a Saturday morning and the greens aren't being mowed until Sunday morning

> Nothing worse than bunkers filled with cement (certainly makes for easier maintenance)

> Nothing worse than the majority of public course practice facilities

 

What's the worst outta those...LOL?

You forgot the " we only mow every other green every other day to save money, and we only drag the bunkers once a week"

[medicoreMAgolfer]

> @gregkeller said:

> > @medicoreMAgolfer said:

>

> > As a PSA, if looking into an equity owned club that files as a non-profit, you can access financial records by searching the clubs form 990s (equivalent to a 1040 for your personal return). Two things to pay attention to - 1) debt level and 2) YOY revenue growth. Profitability is not worth reviewing as these clubs try to operate at break-even

> >

>

> If you were looking at a club, what kind of debt level and revenue growth would make you think twice? also, when looking at those 990s, where would I see those two values? I took a look at two of the local equity clubs near me and both seemed to operate at about a 200k loss the last years that I found records for. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me as debt level and YOY revenue growth though (I'm a science teacher, not an accountant :)

>

 

A couple things I like to look at

- Make sure you look at revenue trends - so are they up year over year, you can get this on the first page. Are losses widening?

- Look at the composition of revenue - on Part VIII, they typically break up revenue into dues, entrance fees, assessments, gross sales, etc. You also don't want to see entrance fees go to operating costs. Also, looking at this over a couple of years is the most important thing - are annual fees declining? Unfortunately,

- Part X usually has the balance sheet. You want to look at lines 22-25, this is where debt really is. High debt isn't bad (my club has a fair amount of debt, but also has a 5 year waiting list, so not a problem), but you do want to see how that debt trends. Little to know debt is helpful

 

Propublica.org has something called a nonprofit explorer, which has 990s. There are other sources of them, but sometimes you get charged - no need to pay!

[LeftDaddy]

Not necessarily saying anything new...just adding to the points above.

 

1. You can’t financially justify the cost of a truly private club unless you play a ton of golf, or unless you and your family all play. Don’t even bother trying (because I’ve tried for you and failed every time).

2. The reasons to join are marginal cost of golf / range is minimal so you end up playing more.

3. No 5 hour rounds, very little kibitzing with tee times, course rarely crowded, typical golfer isn’t your Saturday AM plays 4x per year guy, etc

4. Tournaments, events, friendships, etc etc

5. I love playing the same course a lot. Teaches you more about golf strategy IMO.

[burnsniper]

While I agree that it is hard to financially justify a club, if you compare the monthly cost to a high end public or resort course cost it isn’t too bad. For example, compare 3x rounds a week at Kiawah (non ocean) vs monthly dues. Monthly dues sudeently look attractive and you are likely on a nicer course and having a better experience.

[Mustangs84]

I moved into a new area this past year, which has a nice mid tier private course that I had played before, and really enjoyed. They ran promo in the fall that I took advantage of and ended up joining for this season.

 

1) The course is about 7 minutes from my home. Traffic is only getting worse, and gas prices are brutal, so this was a huge plus.

2) Rounds are significantly quicker. My slowest round so far was 4:15 minutes, got stuck behind a guy with some guests who were pretty lousy. most rounds are right around 4 hours.

3) The tee sheet is generally pretty open. I'm not a huge early morning guy, which seems to be the busiest, so it's always easy to find a tee time.

4) The amount of flexibility at a club is great. I went over last evening to hop on and play nine. Ended up spending an hour on the range then chipping putting for another hour.

5) Course conditions are always GREAT. No worrying about what you're getting into.

 

The time savings, and flexibility sold it for me. Not to mention I really enjoy playing the course. I haven't had a chance to play in an event yet, but I figure having like minded people around will only make things better! It might be the more expensive route, but I think the ability to go out more frequently to play will offset this.

 

[ButterCutter2]

having been a member of 2 diff private clubs, 1 w/ tee times (fri-sun only), 1 w/out. the one w/ tee times was far from a clubcorp situation. i actually prefer the tee time system as i don't like showing up on a saturday and not knowing if i'll be able to get out in 5 minutes or it's going to be 50. i'm probably in the minority on this but i like the idea of a slotted TeeTime so i know exactly how many mins before teeing off i want to show up to do my pre-round routine (only like 30-35 mins for me). another thing i'd suggest investigating upon joining is the nature of reciprocity. i've been at a new club ~5 months now and i dont know if our reciprocity means cart fees elsewhere, a guest fee elsewhere, or no fee elsewhere. i'm out in SoCal and while i live walking distance to my club, one held in high esteem, others that are 30-45 minutes away have very distinct laid out reciprocal rules, and i do wonder if i should've gone to 1 of those at times. then again, living next door i play 3-4x a week, quite often 14-18 holes on foot chasing daylight after work. another thing to note is while there is no value in a private club, do learn about all the hidden costs on top of dues (when are caddies mandatory & how do they have to be used, locker fees, etc). clubs and their membership committees are very good about giving you ballpark figures on monthly dues and then what the f&b mins are, but not the specifics. As a younger member, it can be irritating.