How adjustable drivers actually work. Everyone should be required to watch this to be allowed to pos

[Cons]

Dude is a jeenyus

[Gmack1973]

I think a lot of players adjust their clubs to 'inspire' confidence? I fade the ball and i really dont feel comfortable looking down at an open face on my driver. If i can have a slightly closed face, im a bit more confident? I realise its more to do with a swing....but i think confidence plays a huge part as well.

[jbhawx]

Why would anyone play with a club not square to the target line? Seriously I've never been told "set the club down on its sole and play it like that". I've always been taught and told "square the face to the target line" each and every time! So why is an adjustable hozel bad if your club face is supposed to be square in the first place. In reality they work as advertised. Tom just brings up the point that golfers don't square the face to the target, and since they don't the loft change does not apply the them.

 

Which really begs the question to golf instruction. If your being taught to square the face why go against that theory and add technical specs for those who don't.

 

Other than that the video is awesome. I use an adjustable driver and swear by them because I "square the face to the target line" like I've always been told to do. I don't see understand how that makes me the minority lol.

[Golfrnut]

Because a lot of people need to play an offset face angle to produce a preferred shot shape or control a swing pattern that may not fit well to a square face.

 

A person who slices for example may do better with a closed face that mitigates the shot shape and starts the ball left of target. A person who draws may need a face that is more open.

 

Playing the driver from it's soled position can also create more consistency at setup for some people.

 

In the end, there are plenty of reasons.

[neilc]

I prefer slightly open clubfaces with woods and hybrids because i tend to draw the ball.

 

My draw is lessend and i hit the ball strighter.

 

Open faces give me more confidence and i xan release the clubhead better.

 

I m not a pro but was 5-6 handicap for 20 years

[jbhawx]

I'm not knocking the video or what Tom says. It's actually really useful and explains why some of the golfers I play with have stock settings on adjustable drivers.

 

I'm am curious though if all of this is confirmed using the machine in the video. I thought prior to seeing this that if you changed the angle of the shaft it would also change the way the club sat which could change the loft. I guess it would depend on if you adjust to the new shaft position with it soled or if you adjust the club based on desired face angle

[Golfrnut]

I guess it would depend on if you adjust to the new shaft position with it soled or if you adjust the club based on desired face angle

 

Play from soled position...face angle

 

Play with face readjusted to the target line....effective loft change.

 

Same reason Taylormade used to list "face angle" originally on their adapters, but at some point changed it to "loft". It all depends on how it is used by the golfer.

[Themule]

Great info here thank you very much.

[MSEgolfNY]

Great stuff here

[white03]

For the first time ever, I just reduced my G30 by one degree. Always played my drivers at standard setting without adjustment. Wanted to lower my ball flight so "reduced loft" by 1 degree with the hosel adjustment. Sure enough my ball flight is lower now. Works just fine for me

[JohnG84]

I don't see how the face angle at address is in any way relevant (in terms of determining loft)? Surely the face angle AT IMPACT is the only thing that matters?

 

So you have a 9.5 degree driver and close it 2 degrees, thereby adding 0.75 degrees of loft, you can sole it at address (i.e. address it 2 degrees closed) and as long as the face is square at impact, the loft will be 10.25 degrees.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

This example obviously assumes that the face has been opened 2 degrees during the player's swing, but I would think that's very common (players who struggle with an open face at impact will close the face at address to compensate, etc).

[Stuart_G]

I don't see how the face angle at address is in any way relevant (in terms of determining loft)? Surely the face angle AT IMPACT is the only thing that matters?

 

So you have a 9.5 degree driver and close it 2 degrees, thereby adding 0.75 degrees of loft, you can sole it at address (i.e. address it 2 degrees closed) and as long as the face is square at impact, the loft will be 10.25 degrees.

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Sorry, really not trying to sound like a smart a** but what you are missing is the difference between static loft and dynamic loft.

 

Yes, it is dynamic loft that will determine the ball flight but the static loft and face angle are the actual specs used in a fitting because they are independent of the swing. That's what the fitter knows about the head before the player tries it and it's what the fitter can control or change during the fitting. He can evaluate the dynamic loft or ball flight but he can't really directly control it.

[JohnG84]

You don't sound like a smart a** at all. I appreciate the attempt at an explanation.

 

I still don't completely get it though. If a clubfitter knows that a player consistently squares the clubface at impact (which presumably a lot of better players do) then surely he CAN control the dynamic loft, simply by controlling the static loft and face angle (e.g. opening the face up and keeping the static loft the same, as you might do with an adjustable driver).

[Stuart_G]

You don't sound like a smart a** at all. I appreciate the attempt at an explanation.

 

I still don't completely get it though. If a clubfitter knows that a player consistently squares the clubface at impact (which presumably a lot of better players do) then surely he CAN control the dynamic loft, simply by controlling the static loft and face angle (e.g. opening the face up and keeping the static loft the same, as you might do with an adjustable driver).

 

For the most part you do get it, the part in bold is what I was saying. He knows the static loft of the setup that was tested that gave a particular result, so he directly picks a new static loft to try next. The dynamic loft is (or should) be impacted - but it's an indirect, not direct control.

 

Although if there is no issues with shot shape for a given setup and the fitter wanted to raise the launch, the fitter would ideally want to do it by changing the static loft w/o changing the face angle. The good fitter will certainly test out the players sensitivity to face angle changes and identify the best fit for face angle prior to fitting the static loft (and maintain that same face angle spec through the static loft fitting). But they should never assume the player will automatically square the club or will not also be impacted by the face angle change.

[jbhawx]

 

I also think that adjusting the face angle will help fine tune where the face is at impact. If a player is always having a square face at impact, whatever position he has the club at address would remain unchanged (at least should). If a player has the face open at impact then closing the face angle at address should result in a squarer face at impact.

 

The adjustability allows for you to do this without having to change the shaft position at address, I think. For example take a non adjustable and close the face angle at address a few degrees. Chances are the shaft will be more forward leaning. With adjustable driver you can close the face without the shaft moving as well.

 

That's how I've interpreted it anyways.

[Golfrnut]

I also think that adjusting the face angle will help fine tune where the face is at impact. If a player is always having a square face at impact, whatever position he has the club at address would remain unchanged (at least should). If a player has the face open at impact then closing the face angle at address should result in a squarer face at impact.

 

The adjustability allows for you to do this without having to change the shaft position at address, I think. For example take a non adjustable and close the face angle at address a few degrees. Chances are the shaft will be more forward leaning. With adjustable driver you can close the face without the shaft moving as well.

 

That's how I've interpreted it anyways.

 

Yes, manipulating the shaft angle through the adapter is doing nothing more than altering face angle(or lie angle if moved vertically) in relation to a shaft that is perpendicular to the target line. It's no different than using a bendable hosel and doing it with a bending machine out side of the bonus that if it's bent, you can make independent face angle/lie adjustments whereas with an adapter you cannot because it has to move in a circular motion. If we then rotate the face to square while keeping the shaft perpendicular to the target line, then you get a effective loft change.

[oiler45]

Ok- I've watched the video and read through this thread but maybe I'm not the brightest range ball in the bucket. Simple question - if I buy a 9 degree head and adjust the loft up 1 degree (I know I've just closed the face) and I hover the club perfectly square to the target (which I do) is this adjustable driver all things being equal EXACTLY the same as a 10 degree driver in the neutral position?

 

Thanks in advance for any replies. I want to buy a new Callaway XR16 driver and I want to ensure I understand the adjustability properly.

[JohnG84]

Ok- I've watched the video and read through this thread but maybe I'm not the brightest range ball in the bucket. Simple question - if I buy a 9 degree head and adjust the loft up 1 degree (I know I've just closed the face) and I hover the club perfectly square to the target (which I do) is this adjustable driver all things being equal EXACTLY the same as a 10 degree driver in the neutral position? Thanks in advance for any replies. I want to buy a new Callaway XR16 driver and I want to ensure I understand the adjustability properly.

 

My understanding is that in terms of loft (which is the main determinant of ball flight), yes it will be exactly the same. However, the head will have been tilted slightly backwards to achieve that, so there may be minuscule differences in COG.

[oiler45]

Thanks JohnG84 - that's what I thought. No argument against what Tom Wishon or others are saying, but - doesn't this kind of mean adjustable drivers do precisely what they are advertised to do WITH the caveat that you have to square the alignment prior to your swing?

To me that really isn't such a complicated statement - if you want to look at a closed face at address simply buy a higher static lofted club. For an open face look - vice versa.

 

Aside form the obvious benefit of being able to change shafts easily, a consumer can experiment with lofts until he finds a suitable setting - then leave it be.

I see NO to with adjustable clubs if you understand how they work.

[Golfrnut]

Thanks JohnG84 - that's what I thought. No argument against what Tom Wishon or others are saying, but - doesn't this kind of mean adjustable drivers do precisely what they are advertised to do WITH the caveat that you have to square the alignment prior to your swing?

To me that really isn't such a complicated statement - if you want to look at a closed face at address simply buy a higher static lofted club. For an open face look - vice versa.

 

Aside form the obvious benefit of being able to change shafts easily, a consumer can experiment with lofts until he finds a suitable setting - then leave it be.

I see NO to with adjustable clubs if you understand how they work.

 

Yes. And that has never been disputed. There are a lot of people that do not understand this however, which is the purpose of the video.

 

To add in response to your previous question. Yes, basically the same, with there being some additional lie angle change along with the loft if the connector is not rotated a full 180* from original position. This is due to using a circular connector, so you cannot always make independent loft changes without also effecting the lie angle. Not as detrimental as using a higher loft, but something that has to be accounted for in certain cases.

[oiler45]

Thanks Golfrnut. I would think the slight change in lie angle would also be a little less noticeable if one hovers the club at address which again I do.

And BTW - I meant to say NO downside ... in my previous post.

 

I'm probably kidding myself when I change loft by one degree anyway - I can hit a high drive and then a low one in consecutive holes without consciously doing anything different. As a 9 hcp I'm not sure my swing is consistent enough to notice small changes but I still feel adjustability has it's benefits.

[drmargolis11]

I just wish the hosels that they put on shafts and the heads were universal so that they could be easily changed out between drivers from different manufacturers.

[EXMAX]

The companies have adjustable hosels for one reason only - to reduce the amount of components they carry

To get a true fitting similar to a wooden wood, you would ideally have lie and face/shaft angle socket only and a range of heads with different lofts, but that would cost much more to stock.

Oh thought of another reason - to convince golfers they have a high tech advanced product that does everything

[augustgolf]

The companies have adjustable hosels for one reason only - to reduce the amount of components they carry

To get a true fitting similar to a wooden wood, you would ideally have lie and face/shaft angle socket only and a range of heads with different lofts, but that would cost much more to stock.

Oh thought of another reason - to convince golfers they have a high tech advanced product that does everything

 

And you, my friend, have won the first prize!!!

 

I remember a story about Arnold Palmer, who was playing a round of golf in an exhibition outing...you know the kind, where he plays a hole or 2 or 3 with a group of hacks that have probably paid big $$$ just to say that they played with Arnie.....

 

Anyway, as the story goes....one of the players was having trouble with one of his clubs and asked Arnie about it....Arnie took the club, beat it on a cart part or bench for a few good whacks, and handed it back to the player...."adjusted".

 

And THAT is how I learned custom fitting and design of golf clubs! Adjusted many a putters' lie (and loft, and face orientation) in EXACTLY that manner

 

Of course, today, with one single driver costing over $400....nobody wants to beat their club that way....but, it will work just the same, but without the "exacting" measurements offered with the high-tech, overpriced, new-fangled do-hickies you pay for.

 

Excellent video...always have loved to listen to Tom's philosophies and explanations.

[thomz0_]

The companies have adjustable hosels for one reason only - to reduce the amount of components they carry

To get a true fitting similar to a wooden wood, you would ideally have lie and face/shaft angle socket only and a range of heads with different lofts, but that would cost much more to stock.

Oh thought of another reason - to convince golfers they have a high tech advanced product that does everything

 

And you, my friend, have won the first prize!!!

 

I remember a story about Arnold Palmer, who was playing a round of golf in an exhibition outing...you know the kind, where he plays a hole or 2 or 3 with a group of hacks that have probably paid big $$$ just to say that they played with Arnie.....

 

Anyway, as the story goes....one of the players was having trouble with one of his clubs and asked Arnie about it....Arnie took the club, beat it on a cart part or bench for a few good whacks, and handed it back to the player...."adjusted".

 

And THAT is how I learned custom fitting and design of golf clubs! Adjusted many a putters' lie (and loft, and fact orientation) in EXACTLY that manner

 

Of course, today, with one single driver costing over $400....nobody wants to beat their club that way....but, it will work just the same, but without the "exacting" measurements offered with the high-tech, overpriced, new-fangled do-hickies you pay for.

 

Excellent video...always have loved to listen to Tom's philosophies and explanations.

 

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. You beat my club I'll beat your face.

[Anansi]

Excellent video by one of the greats of the industry

[the_big_cow]

Awesome thank you!

[JCAG]

The companies have adjustable hosels for one reason only - to reduce the amount of components they carry

To get a true fitting similar to a wooden wood, you would ideally have lie and face/shaft angle socket only and a range of heads with different lofts, but that would cost much more to stock.

Oh thought of another reason - to convince golfers they have a high tech advanced product that does everything

 

And you, my friend, have won the first prize!!!

 

I remember a story about Arnold Palmer, who was playing a round of golf in an exhibition outing...you know the kind, where he plays a hole or 2 or 3 with a group of hacks that have probably paid big $$$ just to say that they played with Arnie.....

 

Anyway, as the story goes....one of the players was having trouble with one of his clubs and asked Arnie about it....Arnie took the club, beat it on a cart part or bench for a few good whacks, and handed it back to the player...."adjusted".

 

And THAT is how I learned custom fitting and design of golf clubs! Adjusted many a putters' lie (and loft, and face orientation) in EXACTLY that manner

 

Of course, today, with one single driver costing over $400....nobody wants to beat their club that way....but, it will work just the same, but without the "exacting" measurements offered with the high-tech, overpriced, new-fangled do-hickies you pay for.

 

Excellent video...always have loved to listen to Tom's philosophies and explanations.

 

You could "adjust" older, forged irons (loft and lie) by "banging" them properly if you knew how.

[Cwebb]

Why would anyone play with a club not square to the target line? Seriously I've never been told "set the club down on its sole and play it like that". I've always been taught and told "square the face to the target line" each and every time! So why is an adjustable hozel bad if your club face is supposed to be square in the first place. In reality they work as advertised. Tom just brings up the point that golfers don't square the face to the target, and since they don't the loft change does not apply the them.

 

Which really begs the question to golf instruction. If your being taught to square the face why go against that theory and add technical specs for those who don't.

 

Other than that the video is awesome. I use an adjustable driver and swear by them because I "square the face to the target line" like I've always been told to do. I don't see understand how that makes me the minority lol.

 

In my experience, you're not minority at all. Most people will "aim" the clubface where they want it, regardless of how a head wants to sit on it's own (face angle spec).

 

In my opinion, this is why most the of companies choose to use "effective loft" when they are talking about the stated lofts of their various heads and adaptor settings. Because they've determined that most people do not just let a head sit wherever it wants to....they aim the face in their grip

[00ogopogo]

This set up flaw exists with far too many 'golfers' and makes the business go round and round