Golf as "gentleman's game" is most stuck-up, conceited, arrogant, elitist thing ever.

[NV825]

[quote name='ConcentricDimples' timestamp='1439601598' post='12140082']
I am talking about the [u]origin [/u]of the phrase "gentleman's game"


That phrase goes back to a time when "Gentleman" meant wealthy, WASPy, individual, who often took part in the activity as an exercise of class and a certain culture.
[/quote]

I bet you're a blast at parties if you take things that literal. Obviously certain terms evolve with the changes in our society.

[ghoul31]

My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying

[Musky]

The gentleman aspect of the game seems to have started to fade in the mid to late'90s.

[wobgon]

[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439602988' post='12140234']
My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying
[/quote]
So the op is saying that you broke the rules and were thrown off a golf course?

[Medic]

OP, this post was on another board and applies:

 

You'd call someone a "real gent[leman]" on account of the respect they accord to those they meet (especially to supposed inferiors). You'd also take note of how well they keep their word, as a gentleman is impeccably trustworthy. An unwritten "gentleman's agreement" could stand in place of a binding legal contract. Honour is at stake so there will be no reneging on the agreement. A "gentleman's bet" is a particular type of gentleman's agreement (similarly no third parties required), with an occasional extra variant on standard bets that little or no money is at stake.

 

A gentleman's game, therefore, is as much - if not more - a type of game than a game played by a particular group of people (or a particular gender). It's a game that by its nature makes fixing, cheating and underhand dealing difficult if not impossible.

Probably the truth is that there is no gentleman's game by this definition, but a favourite candidate locally would be cricket. Not my game, but there you have it. Golf would probably come close. Horse racing and football (meaning soccer) would once have come fairly high up the list, but probably not so much these days .

 

In fact, being a gentleman isn't valued as highly as once was, probably because of mistaken association with high incomes and/or privileged family backgrounds. Baby thrown out with the bath-water a bit, IMHO.

 

As to gender, the female equivalent of gentlemen is, of course, "ladies" rather than "gentlewomen". I believe the implicit assumption is that ladies are never anything but genteel, i.e. they would always be polite and fair, and can always be trusted to keep their word.

And who are we to argue with our forebears?

 

Once upon a time it would, I think, have been considered derogatory to refer to a man as simply "the man" rather than "the gentleman". But it definitely wouldn't have been right to refer to "the woman" rather than "the lady". In many circles the latter rule still applies to some extent, which is fine by me.

 

Now, go one step further and realize that golf is centuries old. There were class separations to be sure but being a gentleman meant more than just having financial resources.

[ConcentricDimples]

I know we have all kinds of golfers on a site like this (but--and with reference to this thread--how much is that true?), but anyway, I would imagine SOME of you grew up playing in competitive golf. AJGA, state amateurs, etc.

It is in settings like these, that (what--in my own opinion--I perceive to be elitist (at best)) is championed*

I played in the Ohio State Amateur before. Even at age 18, I was somewhat disgusted by the atmosphere at the pre-tournament banquet. It was cool to sit at the table of a PGA Tour player, though.



I know some of you know the background and extent of what I'm talking about, and I can understand that others don't.

*Ok, for many people who go to the local driving range and slug balls, play a nine-hole league, I don't expect you to fully appreciate what I'm saying (and I say that with the most respect and not trying to say anything other than that this attitude I speak of what championed in certain atmospheres for me).

[ghoul31]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1439603275' post='12140254']
[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439602988' post='12140234']
My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying
[/quote]
So the op is saying that you broke the rules and were thrown off a golf course?
[/quote]


No I am saying Someone is such an arrogant stuckup snobby ahole that they go around reporting people for wearing jeans on on a golf course
If that's that type of people that belong to country clubs, I would never want to belong to one

[wobgon]

[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439603630' post='12140278']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1439603275' post='12140254']
[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439602988' post='12140234']
My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying
[/quote]
So the op is saying that you broke the rules and were thrown off a golf course?
[/quote]


No I am saying Someone is such an arrogant stuckup snobby ahole that they go around reporting people for wearing jeans on on a golf course
If that's that type of people that belong to country clubs, I would never want to belong to one
[/quote]
So you are against golf being a gentleman's game, but you start threads, chastising people for swearing on the golf course.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439603630' post='12140278']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1439603275' post='12140254']
[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439602988' post='12140234']
My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying
[/quote]
So the op is saying that you broke the rules and were thrown off a golf course?
[/quote]


No I am saying Someone is such an arrogant stuckup snobby ahole that they go around reporting people for wearing jeans on on a golf course
If that's that type of people that belong to country clubs, I would never want to belong to one
[/quote]

I'm the biggest proponent of jeans on this board. But if the dress code prohibits them, then you were in the wrong and have to accept the consequences.

[ghoul31]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1439604740' post='12140370']
[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439603630' post='12140278']
[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1439603275' post='12140254']
[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439602988' post='12140234']
My parents belonged to a country club for a while
But they couldn't afford the membership for the real course, just the executive course

So I'm playing the executive course with my dad, and this guy come up in a golf cart
He says I was reported by another member for wearing jeans on the course, and I will have to leave.

So I understand what the OP is saying
[/quote]
So the op is saying that you broke the rules and were thrown off a golf course?
[/quote]


No I am saying Someone is such an arrogant stuckup snobby ahole that they go around reporting people for wearing jeans on on a golf course
If that's that type of people that belong to country clubs, I would never want to belong to one
[/quote]
So you are against golf being a gentleman's game, but you start threads, chastising people for swearing on the golf course.
[/quote]


So you think wearing jeans in public is just as bad as swearing in public?

Are you nuts?

[NoTalentLefty]

Actually the term means you play by the rules now. If you allow improved lies that is usually done on the first tee by a gentlemen's agreement. and besides Let's face it most of us know what the other guy or guys shot on the hole you're playing.

I even heard OJ didn't cheat at golf but he sure was a major a$$ wipe in life. One can be honest on the course but be a lousy human being or vise versa.

[2putttom]

[quote name='Cwing' timestamp='1439593264' post='12139326']
Someone steel your wheaties?
[/quote]No they pissed in them. And this thread is short lived.

[ConcentricDimples]

[quote name='SixtySomePing' timestamp='1439597254' post='12139660']
but I do give thousands each year to several charities, most of which help children in other countries, but you wouldn't understand.
[/quote]

I wouldn't understand having thousands to give to charity, children in other countries, or would I not understand how the body of your post has nothing to do with your topic sentence, nor how that has anything to do with the origins of the phrase "gentleman's game"???

What wouldn't I understand?

[KYMAR]

"What does a gentleman even mean?"


That was all I needed

[highergr0und]

So OP, what happened? how did the rich man mess up your life?

[2putttom]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1439600110' post='12139936']
Sorry Medic, couldn't get the quotes lined up correctly so I'll have to go in a new post.



I agree 100%, if a rule is in place, it must be followed. It's their place, if a person doesn't like the rule, then don't play there. The issue I have (which I've posted here in too many threads to count) is simply that I don't believe the old adage that "clothes make the man". I believe the man is who he is regardless of what he is wearing.
[/quote]Well now hold on boy's .... I'm of the adage " the man who speaks well does well...the man who dresses well does even better'. .

[NoTalentLefty]

A$$ wholeness is not limited to any particular class.

[Denny71]

I kinda see where the op is coming from and have witnessed some of this myself. Golfers "in general" give off a stand-offish vibe to them. It's a stigma and one that a select few have bestowed upon the game. Personally most golfers (offline) are hesitant to play or even help another golfer who fails to be In their social class. Many might disagree with this , but sadly it is the truth. Gymnastics and Horseman ship sports are very similar to golf

I blame Ben Hogan / Sam Snead for this. And the number one culprit in my opinion is Moe Norman. His antics really were stand offish and very troll like

[FlyPhish]

Medic, I like your rules.

However, I am never going to be as happy about a bogey as a birdie. Golf is still a competition after all, even if I am only competing with myself.

Otherwise, great list!

[JORDANF1]

Depending on what club your a member of also depends on if they are Gentleman or A** Holes ! , and ive met a few recently to the point where im moving clubs :P

[seajohn]

[quote name='ghoul31' timestamp='1439605650' post='12140440']
So you think wearing jeans in public is just as bad as swearing in public?

Are you nuts?
[/quote]

It's not about wearing jeans in public, it's wearing jeans at a privately owned club that has specific rules about clothing. You may disagree with the rule and your choice is to not play at that club (or maybe you are too good for rules to apply to you). I suppose if you were as rich as Bill Gates or Warren Buffet you could buy the club and make your own rules.

[seajohn]

[quote name='Module Mahoney' timestamp='1439614613' post='12141208']
I kinda see where the op is coming from and have witnessed some of this myself. Golfers "in general" give off a stand-offish vibe to them. It's a stigma and one that a select few have bestowed upon the game. Personally most golfers (offline) are hesitant to play or even help another golfer who fails to be In their social class. Many might disagree with this , but sadly it is the truth. Gymnastics and Horseman ship sports are very similar to golf

I blame Ben Hogan / Sam Snead for this. And the number one culprit in my opinion is Moe Norman. His antics really were stand offish and very troll like
[/quote]

I blame Happy Gilmore.

[Wriggles]

A "gentleman" was originally a member of an English wealthy, privileged, landed class. Gentlemen did not work, they were men of leisure. Duties only consisted of enjoying the benefits of their station. Of course, gentlemen did not shirk military service, but were commissioned officers, (such as Britain's royal family.) Many served valiantly and some lost their lives, like Freddie Tait. Worthless offspring were sent off to the colonies, America, India, Africa, to rid the family of their blight.

The custom of amateur golfers referred to as Mister, and the professional as just Hagen, Ray, or Vardon illustrated this. The amateur golfs for the sport, the pro golfs for a living.

The current US interpretation of gentleman can be anything. Originally, the concept carried over from England, then mutated to the current topic.

The term "Lady" is the female equivalent of "Gentleman."

[Don W]

[quote name='seajohn' timestamp='1439620820' post='12141378']
[quote name='Module Mahoney' timestamp='1439614613' post='12141208']
I kinda see where the op is coming from and have witnessed some of this myself. Golfers "in general" give off a stand-offish vibe to them. It's a stigma and one that a select few have bestowed upon the game. Personally most golfers (offline) are hesitant to play or even help another golfer who fails to be In their social class. Many might disagree with this , but sadly it is the truth. Gymnastics and Horseman ship sports are very similar to golf

I blame Ben Hogan / Sam Snead for this. And the number one culprit in my opinion is Moe Norman. His antics really were stand offish and very troll like
[/quote]

I blame Happy Gilmore.
[/quote]

Not Happys fault, it was Bob Barker who dragged him down into the sand trap and beat the tar out of him, the resulting influx of this type of new fan that reveled in this kinda behaviour came fooding into golf and put us into the current dilemma.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1439597707' post='12139686']
Perhaps a better topic of discussion might be "How Should A Modern Gentleman Behave?"[list]
[*]Still Ok to open doors for others
[*]Dress comfortable and casual but appropriate given the rules of the course being played
[*]Maintain good pace of play and be aware of others on the course; ahead and behind
[*]Play with quiet distinction; no need to blurt out loud profanities when things don't go your way
[*]Be cordial to your partners; show courtesy and good etiquette
[*]Leave the course in better condition than you found it
[*]Arrive early for a tee time
[*]Share in the duties of flag replacement
[*]Keep a true score with honesty and integrity
[*]Be as happy after a bogey as you are after a bird; at least you are playing
[*]Shake hands with pards/opponents at end of round
[*]Congratulate good shots with sincerity
[*]Tip those on the course providing service appropriately
[*]Keep it fun
[/list]
I don't see my list, although sort of extensive, to be all that difficult.Most people do many of these things without even ever thinking about it. Wouldn't a round be better if this were the norm?
[/quote]


Great Post Medic.

What are you doing Sunday? You seem like you'd be great to play with, want to head to Streamsong?

[HackerD]

Original rant rooted in someone objecting to exchanging scorecards in a tournament?
That's basic and I would agree it needs to be done despite this being a gentleman's game where players call fouls on themselves.
I wish we did it in our regular weekly games -- some guys can't count.

[NoTalentLefty]

If they ain't counting they ain't playing in my group. Call them out on it.

[braincramp52]

I try to stay away from gentlemen. They creep me out.

[NoTalentLefty]

The OP has been watching "The Greatest Game ever Played " . He needs to read the book. The class wars were there but Francis was not as excluded as much as the movie distorted view. He was a respected golfer in the area of Boston and beyond even among the gentlemen.

[dlygrisse]

The OP's original post seems to describe an NFL player not a golfer in his definition of a gentleman. Although there are always exceptions.