Golf as "gentleman's game" is most stuck-up, conceited, arrogant, elitist thing ever.

[ConcentricDimples]

This notion was conceived in a time where golf as what quail-hunting and 100-foot yachts are today.

 

It was a game for those in "the league." Calling it a "gentleman's game" was a shot at the lower classes.

 

I hope that concept changes.

 

What is a "gentleman" anyway? Is it the billionaire that cheats on his wife with 16 mistresses, and pays cash for overnight stays with Vegas hookers?

 

Or is the gentleman the guy who snorts coke and wrecks a marriage while his wife is pregnant?

 

Or maybe it's just middle manager in your local foursome, who lies on his tax return, fires people due no reason, and is a dick to the cart girl.

 

 

Our sport is no different from any other. Please pack, cork, and stow-away the nonsense about "keeping your own score," because that's simply not true in spirit or practicality; competitors keep YOUR score, as do television stations and officials for pro events.

 

 

[Mr22putt]

WTH...huh???

[MadGolfer76]

You left out racism, but yeah.

[Cwing]

Someone steel your wheaties?

[nbg352]

OP you sound like you could use a friend right about now.............

[3sip]

I'm pretty sure none of your examples could be considered a gentleman. If one does not play by the spirit of the game, based on honesty, integrity and doing the right thing when no one is looking, is what makes this a gentleman's game. Scoundrels, cheaters, D bags, whatever you want to call them play golf but not in the spirit of the game. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with money or power, honesty is free. Stuck up, conceited, arrogant, elitists are not gentlemen. There are gentleman left in this world and I think it would be a better place with more.
My 2 cents.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

I don't think you are framing your argument in the best way. Of course those people are not gentleman in any way. I won't take the time to name what they are. I only wish to say that they are welcome to play golf too. But, as you see with the most famous of all adulterers, when exposed, golf is not the kindest game. And that might be why golf is a gentleman's game.

[rsj1360]

Ever notice people freaking out over guys wearing jeans/cargos on the course or in the club house? Or not taking their hat off at "appropriate" times?

I believe that is what the OP is referring to.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Nothing wrong with a dress code. Jeans on the course are fine at some courses, but you kind of look like a pleb. Cargo pants same. Course I play at asks that you wear a sports jacket when entering and exiting the clubhouse. Minor inconvenience, maybe, but the place is class. Most places I've played in Japan are, in one way or other.

[Medic]

OP, newsflash for you.

There are good and bad in everything and everywhere in this world. While I completely understand the message you are trying to convey I don't agree. The moment I did would probably be about the same time that I decided that this game was no longer for me......

[Musky]

Two words. Mashed potatoes.

[Mr60Degree]

[quote name='Christen_The_Sloop' timestamp='1439595382' post='12139502']
Nothing wrong with a dress code. Jeans on the course are fine at some courses, but you kind of look like a pleb. Cargo pants same. Course I play at asks that you wear a sports jacket when entering and exiting the clubhouse. Minor inconvenience, maybe, but the place is class. Most places I've played in Japan are, in one way or other.
[/quote]

Agreed. There is a time and a place for certain things to be required, because those requirements help shape the situation that is supposed to be occurring. If you don't like that situation you don't have to be a part of it.

The only golf courses I have been to that have had lax rules are not very nice typically across the board. If I want to play somewhere that is higher quality across the board then that typically requires a higher cost to maintain that quality and subsequently a more defined look for players/members/guests/etc to justify the expense.

[BrianL99]

[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1439594535' post='12139430']
Ever notice people freaking out over guys wearing jeans/cargos on the course or in the club house? Or not taking their hat off at "appropriate" times?

I believe that is what the OP is referring to.
[/quote]

How you dress and where you wear your hat, is simply common, every day etiquette.

It's encouraging that some venues still expect their patrons to behave like gentlemen and adhere to proper etiquette and manners.

As for the O.P., perhaps another sport would be more in keeping with his idea of sportsmanship or lack of ?

[mikpga]

Just out of curiosity, because honestly I don't know...where did this phrase originate?

There are "gentlemen" in every sport, just as there are "not so gentlemen" in every sport...

I'm sure John Daly didn't demonstrate "gentleman-like" behavior today at Whistling Straights, but after all, he is human...

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1439596367' post='12139592']
Just out of curiosity, because honestly I don't know...[b]where did this phrase originate?[/b]

There are "gentlemen" in every sport, just as there are "not so gentlemen" in every sport...

I'm sure John Daly didn't demonstrate "gentleman-like" behavior today at Whistling Straights, but after all, he is human...
[/quote]

It literally was adopted by the wealthy as a social (and sometimes even genetic) distinction between themselves and the working class. So, "golf is a gentlemen's game" is basically reserving the right of play for the privileged few back in the day. Now it is simply used as a quiet warning to behave properly or to get lost. I am perfectly fine with the last bit, actually.

[pbr2121]

Nothing wrong with trying to live up to a code of conduct that we all fall short of some times. If you want to hate on the man that's cool but there is no need to argue golf is devoid of ethics.

[SixtySomePing]

I think it's a gentleman's game, and a lady's game. Just for your info, I play golf in a league with lots of different levels of wonderful people all of whom are my friends. In almost 40 years of management, I have never fired anyone. The engineers and techs who work for me would tell you that the most important thing to me is that they enjoy their job. I have been married to the same wonderful woman for 41 years. I play golf as a gentleman because that's the way I was raised. I don't cheat on my taxes, but I do give thousands each year to several charities, most of which help children in other countries, but you wouldn't understand. And we don't have a cart girl, but if we did, it wouldn't matter, because my wife is a 20 year breast cancer survivor, and no one is more terrific than she is. So as a gentleman, please reconsider before you post such blatant accusations. Thank you.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='pbr2121' timestamp='1439597123' post='12139656']
Nothing wrong with trying to live up to a code of conduct that we all fall short of some times. If you want to hate on the man that's cool but there is no need to argue golf is devoid of ethics.
[/quote]

I think, in the modern application, it is an admirable code of conduct, particular important these days. But in the same breath I also think it behooves conscientious golfers to consider the origin of the term in order to improve equity and (dare I say) grow the game.

[Medic]

Perhaps a better topic of discussion might be "How Should A Modern Gentleman Behave?"
[list]
[*]Still Ok to open doors for others
[*]Dress comfortable and casual but appropriate given the rules of the course being played
[*]Maintain good pace of play and be aware of others on the course; ahead and behind
[*]Play with quiet distinction; no need to blurt out loud profanities when things don't go your way
[*]Be cordial to your partners; show courtesy and good etiquette
[*]Leave the course in better condition than you found it
[*]Arrive early for a tee time
[*]Share in the duties of flag replacement
[*]Keep a true score with honesty and integrity
[*]Be as happy after a bogey as you are after a bird; at least you are playing
[*]Shake hands with pards/opponents at end of round
[*]Congratulate good shots with sincerity
[*]Tip those on the course providing service appropriately
[*]Keep it fun
[/list]
I don't see my list, although sort of extensive, to be all that difficult.Most people do many of these things without even ever thinking about it. Wouldn't a round be better if this were the norm?

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1439596319' post='12139588']
[quote name='rsj1360' timestamp='1439594535' post='12139430']
Ever notice people freaking out over guys wearing jeans/cargos on the course or in the club house? Or not taking their hat off at "appropriate" times?

I believe that is what the OP is referring to.
[/quote]

How you dress and where you wear your hat, is simply common, every day etiquette.

It's encouraging that some venues still expect their patrons to behave like gentlemen and adhere to proper etiquette and manners.

As for the O.P., perhaps another sport would be more in keeping with his idea of sportsmanship or lack of ?
[/quote]

Brian, I don't know if it was intentional or not, but you just kind of propogated what he was saying.

Arbitrarily defining "gentlemanly" by dress and how you wear your hat just seems way off base to me. But everyone determines etiquette, manners, and gentleman like behavior differently.

I believe I am very much a gentleman both on and off course. I wear both jeans and cargos (but not if the dress code prohibits it. But I am also one of the above referenced "plebes" too.

I just think way too much emphasis is placed on things like dress as opposed to behavior.

[Guia]

OP, I think you need an attitude adjustment and come into the 21st Century. It is a gentlemen's game because it is about being honest and following the rules. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with how much money you have, it has to do with integrity.

You are somewhat correct that before approximately 1935 it was played by the aristocracy and poorer populations had no place to play. Even Professionals could not go into the club house. That pretty much ended when Hogan and Snead started winning, and was definitely gone with Arnold Palmer.

Class is class, and has nothing to do with cash. Bye the way many people cheat on the their spouses and their taxes, that also has little to do with money.

[OpusX20]

When I was in high school (back when the Earth was cooling), I was captain of the golf team and captain of the football team. One of my good friends went to a rival school and was also captain of his golf and football teams. We were very aware that during football games, it was anything goes. Borderline late hits, holding when the refs couldn't see, cursing at each other, shoves in the back, etc. But during golf season, we helped each other with our golf swings, actively rooted for one another, gave fellow competitors the benefit of the doubt in rules situations, etc. I doubt this was unique to us, and I don't think these inconsistent behaviors would surprise anyone. That is just how each of those sports are played. It doesn't make golf or golfers "better" than football or football players. (In fact, I prefer football.) But, the sports do have a different ethos. I agree that the "gentleman" piece might be overstated. But, I do think their is something inherently unique about the game of golf.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1439597707' post='12139686']
Perhaps a better topic of discussion might be "How Should A Modern Gentleman Behave?"

[list]
[*]Still Ok to open doors for others
[*]Dress comfortable and casual but appropriate given the rules of the course being played
[*]Maintain good pace of play and be aware of others on the course; ahead and behind
[*]Play with quiet distinction; no need to blurt out loud profanities when things don't go your way
[*]Be cordial to your partners; show courtesy and good etiquette
[*]Leave the course in better condition than you found it
[*]Arrive early for a tee time
[*]Share in the duties of flag replacement
[*]Keep a true score with honesty and integrity
[*]Be as happy after a bogey as you are after a bird; at least you are playing
[*]Shake hands with pards/opponents at end of round
[*]Congratulate good shots with sincerity
[*]Tip those on the course providing service appropriately
[*]Keep it fun
[/list]
I don't see my list, although sort of extensive, to be all that difficult.Most people do many of these things without even ever thinking about it. Wouldn't a round be better if this were the norm?
[/quote]

Jim, if I would have seen this first, I dont' think I would have even posted mine. I think it's well said. None of those things (outside of comforming to an established dress code) have anything to do with what someone is wearing.

[misplacedtexan83]

[attachment=2906888:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1439598492.521742.jpg]

[Medic]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1439598316' post='12139734']
[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1439597707' post='12139686']
Perhaps a better topic of discussion might be "How Should A Modern Gentleman Behave?"
[list]
[*]Still Ok to open doors for others
[*]Dress comfortable and casual but appropriate given the rules of the course being played
[*]Maintain good pace of play and be aware of others on the course; ahead and behind
[*]Play with quiet distinction; no need to blurt out loud profanities when things don't go your way
[*]Be cordial to your partners; show courtesy and good etiquette
[*]Leave the course in better condition than you found it
[*]Arrive early for a tee time
[*]Share in the duties of flag replacement
[*]Keep a true score with honesty and integrity
[*]Be as happy after a bogey as you are after a bird; at least you are playing
[*]Shake hands with pards/opponents at end of round
[*]Congratulate good shots with sincerity
[*]Tip those on the course providing service appropriately
[*]Keep it fun
[/list]
I don't see my list, although sort of extensive, to be all that difficult.Most people do many of these things without even ever thinking about it. Wouldn't a round be better if this were the norm?
[/quote]

Jim, if I would have seen this first, I dont' think I would have even posted mine. I think it's well said. None of those things (outside of comforming to an established dress code) have anything to do with what someone is wearing.
[/quote]

Dress has nothing to do, in my experience, with the character of the person. But courses have rules and in my opinion, if they have rules they should be followed - even if they are outdated. (I LOVE wearing the golf t-shirts as opposed to collared ones)

[deadsolid...shank]

Sorry Medic, couldn't get the quotes lined up correctly so I'll have to go in a new post.



I agree 100%, if a rule is in place, it must be followed. It's their place, if a person doesn't like the rule, then don't play there. The issue I have (which I've posted here in too many threads to count) is simply that I don't believe the old adage that "clothes make the man". I believe the man is who he is regardless of what he is wearing.

[ConcentricDimples]

I am talking about the [u]origin [/u]of the phrase "gentleman's game"


That phrase goes back to a time when "Gentleman" meant wealthy, WASPy, individual, who often took part in the activity as an exercise of class and a certain culture.

[Denny71]

Honesty is the big one ... Cheating at golf is the easiest thing to do of any sport. I see it all the time on every style of course and locale. If we can eliminate the cheating we would have the perfect game

[highergr0und]

Lol. You're assuming the worst about everyone. I know plenty of wealthy "gentleman" that love their wife and family, don't touch drugs, and would do whatever they could not to have to fire someone.

Don't drink the leftist koolaide!

[TMBob]

I might be going out on a lim here, but my guess is that "gentleman" also get their boxers in a bunch when they hear music on the course from a near by group.