Rick Shiels M1 Vs Nike Vapor Pro

[cricgolf]

http://www.golfwrx.com/369730/head-to-head-test-taylormade-m1-460-v-nike-vapor-fly-pro-drivers

 

Saw the comparison video. Both were fairly similar. Curious about Vapor Fly / Pro experiences.

[MarkFromTheUK]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

[XIE]

I've hit both and found the M1 a tad longer, but I much preferred the feel of the Fly Pro (hence why I bought it). I will say that I'm not too convinced his comparison is accurate since he didn't use the same shaft. It's not a straight comparison of heads with different shafts.

[Man_O_War]

like all golfers he seems to have different performances every time so catch him on a good day and the results are different

[cobig13]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

[oskaru]

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Explain this please. His numbers on GC2 are pretty close to his Game Golf stats. Also, GC2 is closed data. The only thing you could "juice" is roll out distance since that's calculated based on how hard the fairway or driving range is set to be.

[MarkFromTheUK]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

 

It's not just Shiels... his mate Finch does it too. Take a look at his videos from 6-9 months ago. Take a look at his videos when he's at the Ping national fitting centre, or at the custom club place trying the £1,000 shaft. Take a look at the videos when he's hitting with Sadlowski. Take a look at his swing in general. The speed of it, the noise of the wind resistance and the sound of the hit. When you play with, or see someone who regularly pops it out there 330+ yards it makes you sit up and take notice. I'd be amazed if either were carrying more than 270 with a total of 290 in benign conditions.

 

As for their 350y plus hits... never in a million years. That's getting near long drive territory. Both would be leading the USPGA Tour in driving distance, yet they both work on driving ranges.

 

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but there's certainly something that doesn't add up.

[oskaru]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

 

It's not just Shiels... his mate Finch does it too. Take a look at his videos from 6-9 months ago. Take a look at his videos when he's at the Ping national fitting centre, or at the custom club place trying the £1,000 shaft. Take a look at the videos when he's hitting with Sadlowski. Take a look at his swing in general. The speed of it, the noise of the wind resistance and the sound of the hit. When you play with, or see someone who regularly pops it out there 330+ yards it makes you sit up and take notice. I'd be amazed if either were carrying more than 270 with a total of 290 in benign conditions.

 

As for their 350y plus hits... never in a million years. That's getting near long drive territory. Both would be leading the USPGA Tour in driving distance, yet they both work on driving ranges.

 

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but there's certainly something that doesn't add up.

 

Those videos are almost two years old by now. They've done a lot of fitness work and are playing a lot more golf than they did before. GC2 doesn't take wind into account. It's calculated based on ball data (launch and spin).

 

This video has them hitting it 300+ with borrowed clubs against Jamie. Are you telling me his launch monitor is "juiced" as well?

 

[ethanshapiro]

I don't think this thread was meant to be a "How Far Does Shiels ACTUALLY Hit it".

But to answer, when i tested the clubs, I really wanted to like the Nike. I did. TaylorMade's M1, when tuned correctly produced the best results for me.

[cobig13]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

 

It's not just Shiels... his mate Finch does it too. Take a look at his videos from 6-9 months ago. Take a look at his videos when he's at the Ping national fitting centre, or at the custom club place trying the £1,000 shaft. Take a look at the videos when he's hitting with Sadlowski. Take a look at his swing in general. The speed of it, the noise of the wind resistance and the sound of the hit. When you play with, or see someone who regularly pops it out there 330+ yards it makes you sit up and take notice. I'd be amazed if either were carrying more than 270 with a total of 290 in benign conditions.

 

As for their 350y plus hits... never in a million years. That's getting near long drive territory. Both would be leading the USPGA Tour in driving distance, yet they both work on driving ranges.

 

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but there's certainly something that doesn't add up.

I don't think I've seen Rick hit a 350+ yard drive. He usually swings around 112mph to 114mph which is consistent with what I'd expect from his swing. Pete has hit 1 or 2 350 yards but usually in the 300 yard vicinity. He swings faster than Rick. Nothing fishy about their distances, swing speeds, or ball speeds IMO.

 

Rick is who you have to watch out for with the club reviews. It seems he has a Taylor Made and Ping bias and usually has a winner in mind before his tests. Swings harder with one club than the other. I've never been surprised by one of his 1v1 club reviews.

[ph00ny]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

 

It's not just Shiels... his mate Finch does it too. Take a look at his videos from 6-9 months ago. Take a look at his videos when he's at the Ping national fitting centre, or at the custom club place trying the £1,000 shaft. Take a look at the videos when he's hitting with Sadlowski. Take a look at his swing in general. The speed of it, the noise of the wind resistance and the sound of the hit. When you play with, or see someone who regularly pops it out there 330+ yards it makes you sit up and take notice. I'd be amazed if either were carrying more than 270 with a total of 290 in benign conditions.

 

As for their 350y plus hits... never in a million years. That's getting near long drive territory. Both would be leading the USPGA Tour in driving distance, yet they both work on driving ranges.

 

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but there's certainly something that doesn't add up.

I don't think I've seen Rick hit a 350+ yard drive. He usually swings around 112mph to 114mph which is consistent with what I'd expect from his swing. Pete has hit 1 or 2 350 yards but usually in the 300 yard vicinity. He swings faster than Rick. Nothing fishy about their distances, swing speeds, or ball speeds IMO.

 

Rick is who you have to watch out for with the club reviews. It seems he has a Taylor Made and Ping bias and usually has a winner in mind before his tests. Swings harder with one club than the other. I've never been surprised by one of his 1v1 club reviews.

 

How is he swinging harder when he swung the nike 2 mph quicker than the M1?

 

If you're talking about his max distance comp that he does with various clubs, he seems to struggle a bit with consistency in those understandably seeing he's probably swinging out of his shoes and benefit greatly with clubs that help with his misses.

 

Peter also seems to swing faster based on the clubhead speed and based on course vlog. He gets quite a bit on rick in a lot of instances. I think it was more apparent when they got bunch of used clubs to play on the course. Rick struggled with the whiteboard x flex unknown tipping in an old taylormade and pete pretty much nut it

[cobig13]

I'm speaking in generalities of having watched their videos through the years.

 

That 2nd hand club round was very interesting. Rick must have gone way too stiff with that whiteboard X.

[Walykazam]

When he does his head to heads it seems like he is being paid by tm. Kind of like when golfwrx does their official reviews. Probably sponsored.What I have realized is that old equipment never beats new eqiupment. He went from hitting a r15 3+ and in head to head with m1 he couldn't hit it at all. 275 hooks or pulls. Definitely a big bias not sure who is compensating him but sure seems like he is sandbagging with certain clubs. With cores maxed out all drivers should be relatively similar based on similar lofts and shafts not a 60 yard difference in length and direction. When I demo products and I am swing good there is very little distribution between any of the drivers I am testing as long as I am comfortable with the shaft and loft.

[caloge]

He produces similar numbers on "unbiased" LMs when he is out and about but I will admit I was fishy about his figures for a while particulary since his early videos have him carrying the ball 250-260 and then overnight he starts carryig the ball 300. Check out his original r11 review and then watch a few down the line when he compares the club to others. His figurea jump massively. Doesn't really matter to me since I know how far I hit the ball and have no delusions about what a new club will gain for me.

[VA_Astra]

I like his reviews, been watching him for quite a while now. For me the M1 won the battle of the best drivers out. I think the combo I play now is the best combo ever in my bag.

[DGA3]

I also enjoy Shiels' reviews and will continue watching them, but wondered about the accuracy of his launch monitor, especially when it comes to his "mid-handicapper," Rob Potter.

 

Potter's swing speed usually comes in anywhere between 87-94 mph, but his drives often carry 230 yards and roll out to over 250!!!

 

Really? :dntknw:

[bryanwmilburn]

It doesn't really matter what his numbers show on the LM, it matters what the numbers are for one club vs the next. So if he hits it 320 with the m1 and 310 with the Nike (which I do believe is possible with the roll LMs give), the importance doesn't lie in the actual numbers - it lies in the 10 yard difference between the two. Also, I've found I swing one club faster than another simply due to head weight and shaft weight (up to 2-3 mph faster). Lastly, at 112-114 he can definitely get those numbers with proper smash, AOA, and fit shaft. I'm sitting at 108-110 and with the m1 I've been averaging 15-20 yards further than my properly fit Titleist 915 d3. So I'm not sure where the hate is coming from. He's joined this forum to help take questions and make videos to help us golfers improve and give insight to clubs for people who don't have the opportunity to test them. I'm glad he's partnered with WRX and enjoy his videos.

[DGA3]

No hate here.

 

As I said, I enjoy the reviews and will continue to watch them.

 

I just wondered how Rob Potter - who has a swing speed similar to mine - hits his drives 250 yards, when mine top out at around 220!

[ph00ny]

It doesn't really matter what his numbers show on the LM, it matters what the numbers are for one club vs the next. So if he hits it 320 with the m1 and 310 with the Nike (which I do believe is possible with the roll LMs give), the importance doesn't lie in the actual numbers - it lies in the 10 yard difference between the two. Also, I've found I swing one club faster than another simply due to head weight and shaft weight (up to 2-3 mph faster). Lastly, at 112-114 he can definitely get those numbers with proper smash, AOA, and fit shaft. I'm sitting at 108-110 and with the m1 I've been averaging 15-20 yards further than my properly fit Titleist 915 d3. So I'm not sure where the hate is coming from. He's joined this forum to help take questions and make videos to help us golfers improve and give insight to clubs for people who don't have the opportunity to test them. I'm glad he's partnered with WRX and enjoy his videos.

 

This reminds me of automotive tuning. It's as if people expect every dyno to produce the same number and they just can't. Dyno is a tool to establish a baseline and see the gains and differences between different setups. Exact same thing LM should be used for.

 

Ignore the fact that various things contribute to the total distance besides the clubhead speed (LA, spinrate, aoa, etc) but take it in for comparison purposes.

[2putttom]

I'm speaking in generalities of having watched their videos through the years.

 

That 2nd hand club round was very interesting. Rick must have gone way too stiff with that whiteboard X.

:cheesy: got side tracked with accusations and defense post's. Equipment performs only as good as the hands that hold it.

[Seeking70s]

Neither Driver "WON or LOST" this competition. Both are close in yardage. In the M1's case he turns it over, and a draw will always go farther and spin less. In the Vapor Fly Pro he hits small blocks that will not go as far as a draw and will spin quite a bit more. He also does not use the same shaft in each. Were this test repeated with same shaft and each club optimized for launch and spin and set so each hit nearly identical shots there would be little to no distance difference imo. I watch a lot of his videos and use them for my personal decision making. Personally I have hit both of these drivers and prefer the feel of the Nike. I ended up buying the Fly version instead of the Pro Version as my launch and spin numbers were really good for me. I also hit the Flex and the fitter agreed that I could play that club based on my launch monitor number. (It was not a totally fair test though as the Flex had a shaft that felt a bit "tight" to me and made the club feel a bit heavy. Different shaft and I very well might have preferred the Flex. ) Go watch Rick's videos when he tests the Vapor Fly Driver separately and when he turns the Vapor Fly Pro over he flat out hits some Bombs. I enjoy both Rick Shiel's and Mark Crossfield's videos as they help me narrow down my buying decision. I tried 7 of this years drivers before settling on the Vapor Fly Driver with average spin just under 2100rpm's. Rob Potter testing has some validity for sub 100 mph swingers. Just pay attention to the swing speed, launch angle and spin on his good shots to judge the clubs. Note that he "ripped" the Nike Vapor Fly but his good shots were awesome for him. As for the "blue" color I could care less and actually really like it.

[Walykazam]

It doesn't really matter what his numbers show on the LM, it matters what the numbers are for one club vs the next. So if he hits it 320 with the m1 and 310 with the Nike (which I do believe is possible with the roll LMs give), the importance doesn't lie in the actual numbers - it lies in the 10 yard difference between the two. Also, I've found I swing one club faster than another simply due to head weight and shaft weight (up to 2-3 mph faster). Lastly, at 112-114 he can definitely get those numbers with proper smash, AOA, and fit shaft. I'm sitting at 108-110 and with the m1 I've been averaging 15-20 yards further than my properly fit Titleist 915 d3. So I'm not sure where the hate is coming from. He's joined this forum to help take questions and make videos to help us golfers improve and give insight to clubs for people who don't have the opportunity to test them. I'm glad he's partnered with WRX and enjoy his videos.

 

So why not get properly fit for both clubs and then compare for best results. Doesn't make sense and as a scientist all variables have to be the same except for clubhead.

[Golfrnut]

I also enjoy Shiels' reviews and will continue watching them, but wondered about the accuracy of his launch monitor, especially when it comes to his "mid-handicapper," Rob Potter. Potter's swing speed usually comes in anywhere between 87-94 mph, but his drives often carry 230 yards and roll out to over 250!!! Really? :dntknw:

 

A 140 ball speed can easily carry in the 230 range? What's the issue?

 

 

[Boricua Golf]

To stay in thread...at the Trials I hit both as well, the M1, by far, felt, sounded and performed better "for me", enjoyed the looks of the Nike, but did not performed well enough for me...

[buckeyefl]

M1 is an excellent all round performer. Nike probably feels the best off the face of any 2016 driver, although it's nowhere near as long.

 

As for Shiels... It's great that he's contributing on here, but until he stops juicing his LM and gives us some realistic numbers I'm not going to trust a single word he says.

 

Why do you think Shiels is juicing? I have noticed that the second club in his face offs always gets 1-2 extra mph swing speed which 99% of the time is leading to it outperforming. Entertaining guy though.

 

It's not just Shiels... his mate Finch does it too. Take a look at his videos from 6-9 months ago. Take a look at his videos when he's at the Ping national fitting centre, or at the custom club place trying the £1,000 shaft. Take a look at the videos when he's hitting with Sadlowski. Take a look at his swing in general. The speed of it, the noise of the wind resistance and the sound of the hit. When you play with, or see someone who regularly pops it out there 330+ yards it makes you sit up and take notice. I'd be amazed if either were carrying more than 270 with a total of 290 in benign conditions.

 

As for their 350y plus hits... never in a million years. That's getting near long drive territory. Both would be leading the USPGA Tour in driving distance, yet they both work on driving ranges.

 

Maybe I'm being too harsh, but there's certainly something that doesn't add up.

 

I still haven't figured out where you keep getting these crazy numbers. Look at the carry number and nothing else. I have never seen him claim the numbers you suggest. Did he steal your tea? His number are perfectly in line with his swing speed.

[Bomber_11]

As for the real reason we're all here,

 

I've hit both and found the M1 to be the superior club. The nike "feels" like you can swing it faster (feels like a very light clubhead), and I did swing it 1-2 mph faster than the Taylormade. However, my spin rate, launch angle, ball speed, and overall distance were all better w/ the M1. I tried them both with a Aldila Rogue X shaft - so it was truly head to head.

 

As for the Shiels/Finch juicing launch monitor debate.....I guess in this head to head it doesn't matter - if one club was receiving "juiced" statistics, so was the other one. If you're out buying clubs just because Rick Shiels hit them a long ways, you need to be worried about more than just him tweaking his GC2.

 

But no, I don't believe Shiels or Finch are hitting much over 300, just looking at their swing styles and speeds. They're both talented golfers and clearly people enjoy watching their content, but I'd be surprised if their swings produced big time numbers. Could be wrong.

[The Chicken Connoisseur]

There needs to be a sticky thread about how the different launch monitors work, their accuracy and readings, etc. Too many of you have no idea and keep discussing it, I'll make a post later

[Lord Helmet]

This thread sux. All you complainers and conspiracy theorists. I bet Shiels is super glad hes partnered with wrx.....

[Bomber_11]

Broadly speaking there are two types of launch monitor. One’s that track the ball after impact using Doppler Radar technology and one’s that use Camera technology to record the data at impact. The systems then use the data they record and their own algorithms to provide a range of data measurements and projections about the golf shot that has just been hit.

 

Doppler Radar Launch Monitor

 

Radar based launch monitors use a scientific principle called the Doppler Effect. The monitor generates microwave signal that is then radiates out of the device. This signal is interfered with by a moving object, in this case the golf ball, that causes some energy to be reflected and a sensor in the unit detects the reflected signal. This is the same technology used widely in the defence industry for uses such as missile tracking.

Radar based systems track the flight of the ball and using assumptions project details of the clubhead movements through the software. The leading proponents of radar based launch monitors are Trackman and Flightscope.

 

 

Photometric Camera Launch Monitor

 

Led by the GC2 Smart Camera System, these launch monitors use a series of advanced high definition cameras to capture club and ball data at impact and then project the flight and distance performance through the software. The GC2 also offers Head Measurement Technology to run alongside their launch monitor to provide analysis of the club head. Stickies applied to the club head are detected by the cameras and give information such as where on the club face the ball was struck.

[buckeyefl]

Crossfield did a short video describing the two systems after someone was complaining. It is short, useful and to the point as was your post.