Lob wedge and older guys

[nsxguy]

Again, I said ALWAYS using a LW around the greens is bad technique.. I am stating a generalization that most amateurs would play better golf if they got the ball on the ground as soon as possible. No pro would ever teach an amateur to use a lob wedge exclusively around he greens.

 

And yes, I too hit the vast majority of my shots around the green with my vokey 56. My "go to" club so to speak. It is still extremely valuable however to be able to chip and run, or bump and run when the correct opportunity presents itself.

 

Jag, how many professionals do you teach? I cant tell you the last time I saw a touring pro pull a 6 iron on a chip

 

Seriously ?

 

Frankly I can't believe how many of you guys making completely valid points on chipping loft, for OR against,,,,,,,,,,, do so without taking the ability of the group you're referring to into account; or even mentioning the group you're referring to.

 

Quite CLEARLY, IMO, a higher handicapper needs to get the ball on the ground ASAP while a more accomplished golfer can do pretty much as he/she likes.

 

 

And Obee, please excuse me for using "caps". not "all caps", which IS "yelling". I use them to accentuate a word here and there so the sentence is read/understood as I intended,,,,,,,,,,,

 

He said no pro would teach an amateur to use a LW around the green for most shots and if you havent noticed lot of the successful short game teachers actually use the same methods they teach, I have watched a plethora of them and very few include the 6 iron bump and run. The only real time a low lofted club comes into play is a specialty type shot

 

Then perhaps you should have quoted him saying that ?

[Krt22]

It is quoted, right after the line you made big and bold

[bluedot]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

I absolutely would toss it in your first example. And the second one would be a LW or a putter depending on how short fringe is

 

So why do you putt instead of chipping when you are 24' away on the green?

[bluedot]

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

Not that it matters but i can bet you'd actually toss it in scenario a. Just think how awkward it would be to roll it. You gonna bowl it down there? Cmon. Get out of cliche land.

 

So why do you putt from 24' away on the green instead of chipping? C'mon. Get out of cliche land.

 

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

I absolutely would toss it in your first example. And the second one would be a LW or a putter depending on how short fringe is

Haha. I would absolutely toss it in the first scenario as well. Why not? judging how air and gravity will affect the ball is much easier than judging how slope, grain, and stemp wil affect the ball.

 

So why do you putt from 24' away on the green instead of chipping?

[Krt22]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

[northgolf]

Sorry but in most cases the margin of error is WAY higher with the lofted wedge provided adequate bounce and decent technique. A lower lofted shot that rolls out most of the way brings in WAY more variables.

 

Really good players absolutely DO NOT use lower lofted clubs "whenever possible". In fact the overwhelming majority of their shots are hit with their most lofted wedge. And it's not even close.

 

100% correct. Especially here in the Northeast with heavy bluegrass/poa/fescue rough in the green surrounds. How you going to dig your 8 iron out of that crap and control the ball on greens Stimping 10 or higher? No chance

 

Seriously, I was just out playing today and the bluegrass next to the green was a good 5" deep, wet, and grabby. It didn't matter what I hit it with, there wasn't a chance of controlling the ball - the lob wedge made sense because I could swing fast enough to get through that **** and get on the green without way too much pace (down hill, caught it a little too well and ran off the other side by a couple feet). When you are in the deep stuff, I find it hard to argue that you have much control given how much grass is going to be between the club face and the ball.

 

Now if I had been 1 yard instead of 3 yards off the green, I would have hooded the hell out of that lob wedge and been swinging almost parallel to the green with my back to the pin and it would have been a really light easy swing but that is a shot entirely out of the universe of this thread. If it was a foot off the green, I'd have been using the texas wedge. The lie and what's between you and the hole has a lot to do with what is an optimal shot.

[golferdrmjr]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

I absolutely would toss it in your first example. And the second one would be a LW or a putter depending on how short fringe is

 

So why do you putt instead of chipping when you are 24' away on the green?

They're not going to toss it in the hole, they're going to toss it part way and let it roll the rest of the way to the hole. Like almost all normal people of almost any age. Almost no one is going to "roll" it all the way to the hole like a boccie ball. This is for scenario A. And that's how I hit a short shot with a lob wedge as well. It's not hard to do, it takes just as much time to learn as any other short shot.

[northgolf]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

Just ask Shaq about that free throw....

[iteachgolf]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

I absolutely would toss it in your first example. And the second one would be a LW or a putter depending on how short fringe is

 

So why do you putt instead of chipping when you are 24' away on the green?

 

No you just obviously have trouble understanding what is written. Nobody said they'd toss it in the hole. They said they'd toss it. Partly in the air and part rolling. Not a single person I've ever witnessed is going get down low and bowl it so ball is rolling the entire time.

 

I'd pitch it from 24' way before I'd chip it. Btw I've pitched it multiple times while on the green rather than putting. Ball should either be on the ground the entire time. Or it's beneficial to be in the air and take away a bunch of the variables. Your logic is tragically flawed. So my options are putt, bladed wedge, or lofted pitch.

[jffuller]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

Scenario A: You are standing 24' from the hole (no golf clubs involved) and I hand you a golf ball and tell you to propel it to the hole from there, with a large sum of money at stake. Would you roll it, or would you try to toss it up in the air part of the way and hope that it rolls the rest of the way? (This is NOT a hard question, btw...)

 

Scenario B: My ball is on the green 24' from the hole. I choose to hit the ball with a club called a "putter" and it rolls all the way to the hole (I hope...). Of course, I COULD use my LW and try to fly it part of the way and then hope it would roll out the right amount, but that would be, well, STUPID! It is MUCH easier to judge roll than carry, so I "putt".

 

Scenario C: My ball is 4' off the green in the fringe, and the hole is 20' onto the green and the ground in between is relatively flat. So I can either:

a. try to carry the ball about 6' and let it roll the other 18', for which I would use a 9 iron.

b. try to use my LW to carry it most of the way and then roll out the rest of the way; for me, that would be about 15' of carry. I have a really good LW, and I'm really comfortable with it, but...

(I'm really scratching my head here about which shot gives me the best chance of chipping in, or saving par, or avoiding double bogey, or whatever. Wow; hard choice!)

 

If rolling the ball is better in Scenarios A and B, what happens to change the laws of nature in Scenario C? (I'll give you a hint: NOTHING!)

 

And for the record, I don't give a rat's heinie what Jordan and the boys are chipping with. That has less to do with me than their driving distances do, and I can't hit it out of my shadow any more.

 

I absolutely would toss it in your first example. And the second one would be a LW or a putter depending on how short fringe is

 

So why do you putt instead of chipping when you are 24' away on the green?

 

You don't like the answer you got to your hypothetical scenario so you're going to take your ball and go home? Learning to properly use a lob wedge around the green isn't that hard, more high caps could benefit from doing so. You're swinging the shortest club in the bag other than possibly a putter, what is so inherently intimidating about that? I've only been playing for 3 years and I can honestly say my short game is light years better having learned to use a lob wedge for 95%+ of shots around the green vs trying to gauge carry and roll with multiple clubs. And no one is going to bowl the ball 24 feet, they'd toss it and let it release part of the way. Would you roll a basketball or a football to a teammate, or toss it to them?

[nsxguy]

 

Jag, how many professionals do you teach? I cant tell you the last time I saw a touring pro pull a 6 iron on a chip

 

Seriously ?

 

Frankly I can't believe how many of you guys making completely valid points on chipping loft, for OR against,,,,,,,,,,, do so without taking the ability of the group you're referring to into account; or even mentioning the group you're referring to.

 

Quite CLEARLY, IMO, a higher handicapper needs to get the ball on the ground ASAP while a more accomplished golfer can do pretty much as he/she likes.

 

 

And Obee, please excuse me for using "caps". not "all caps", which IS "yelling". I use them to accentuate a word here and there so the sentence is read/understood as I intended,,,,,,,,,,,

 

He said no pro would teach an amateur to use a LW around the green for most shots and if you havent noticed lot of the successful short game teachers actually use the same methods they teach, I have watched a plethora of them and very few include the 6 iron bump and run. The only real time a low lofted club comes into play is a specialty type shot

 

Then perhaps you should have quoted him saying that ?

It is quoted, right after the line you made big and bold

 

OY.

 

I quoted you saying THIS "Jag, how many professionals do you teach? I cant tell you the last time I saw a touring pro pull a 6 iron on a chip"

 

He didn't say anything about a pro pulling a 6 iron on a chip. You put words in his mouth.

 

THEN you say "He said no pro would teach an amateur to use a LW around the green,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,," which was besides the point.

 

Yes, he DID say that. But that's not what you "answered" to.

 

Forget it - not worth it. Later.

[iteachgolf]

 

 

Seriously ?

 

Frankly I can't believe how many of you guys making completely valid points on chipping loft, for OR against,,,,,,,,,,, do so without taking the ability of the group you're referring to into account; or even mentioning the group you're referring to.

 

Quite CLEARLY, IMO, a higher handicapper needs to get the ball on the ground ASAP while a more accomplished golfer can do pretty much as he/she likes.

 

 

And Obee, please excuse me for using "caps". not "all caps", which IS "yelling". I use them to accentuate a word here and there so the sentence is read/understood as I intended,,,,,,,,,,,

 

He said no pro would teach an amateur to use a LW around the green for most shots and if you havent noticed lot of the successful short game teachers actually use the same methods they teach, I have watched a plethora of them and very few include the 6 iron bump and run. The only real time a low lofted club comes into play is a specialty type shot

 

Then perhaps you should have quoted him saying that ?

It is quoted, right after the line you made big and bold

 

OY.

 

I quoted you saying THIS "Jag, how many professionals do you teach? I cant tell you the last time I saw a touring pro pull a 6 iron on a chip"

 

He didn't say anything about a pro pulling a 6 iron on a chip. You put words in his mouth.

 

THEN you say "He said no pro would teach an amateur to use a LW around the green,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,," which was besides the point.

 

Yes, he DID say that. But that's not what you "answered" to.

 

Forget it - not worth it. Later.

 

He didn't put words in his mouth. He said exactly that. Just not in the post you quoted. He said all very good players keep the ball on the ground whenever possible and that chipping with a 6 iron and 8 iron is absolutely imperative to lowering your scores. I'd say a PGA Tour player qualifies as very good.

[Krt22]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

Just ask Shaq about that free throw....

 

Well there are obviously always exceptions to the rule.

 

Nsxguy-Definitely not worth debating semantics with you, but please reread the entire exchange, I think that will clear a few things up for you.

[dpb5031]

Most of the courses I play have significant rough around pretty fIrm and fast greens. Often times you're chipping to an elevated geeen. You need loft, speed, and bounce on your wedge to get the ball up and out to have any chance of controlling the shot. It just ain't happening with an 8 iron bump and run. The key is judging the lie accurately and then applying the appropriate technique.

 

I'm not opposed to running a shot in with less loft if the shot is uphill with plenty of green to cover from a great lie, but those situations are rare in my world.

[Hstead]

This guy is no Briny Baird but he did at one time have a mediocre short game relative to his peers and he advocates using multiple clubs around the green in his book and at practice.

 

[Hateto3Putt]

While reading this banter, why does this come to mind..

 

[bluedot]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

These analogies are, of course, completely irrelevant. When you are throwing to the pitcher or to first, the target is in the air; it isn't a hole in the ground. Not only is the target in the air, it doesn't matter how far the ball would (or would not) roll IF it wasn't caught. In basketball, the basket happens to be TEN FEET in the air, and the ball has to come in from above. Those have absolutely ZERO in common with getting golf ball across a green.

 

I have NEVER disputed that it is easy to chip with a LW, nor that there are a lot of occasions that the LW would be the club of choice. But nobody has answered the $64 question that I keep asking: If carry is so easy to judge compared to roll, then why aren't any of you chipping with your LW instead of putting when you're already on the green?

[iteachgolf]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

These analogies are, of course, completely irrelevant. When you are throwing to the pitcher or to first, the target is in the air; it isn't a hole in the ground. Not only is the target in the air, it doesn't matter how far the ball would (or would not) roll IF it wasn't caught. In basketball, the basket happens to be TEN FEET in the air, and the ball has to come in from above. Those have absolutely ZERO in common with getting golf ball across a green.

 

I have NEVER disputed that it is easy to chip with a LW, nor that there are a lot of occasions that the LW would be the club of choice. But nobody has answered the $64 question that I keep asking: If carry is so easy to judge compared to roll, then why aren't any of you chipping with your LW instead of putting when you're already on the green?

 

I already answered that and told your logic was tragically flawed. On the green you're on a flat smooth surface with nothing in front of you. And if there is something in front of you or a massive slope I HAVE pitched it with a lob wedge because it will end up closer to the hole than a putt from the same location. When you miss the green those situation arent close to the same. Overwhelming majority of the time you are close the hole but off the green the ball will be in the rough, and must carry a certain distance to reach the green, and then stop once landing one the green. The best club for that shot is a lofted wedge. The overwhelming majority of shots around the greens of any course with modern grasses require the ball to be played in the air for he highest probability of success. In the last 20 rounds I've played I can't count on one hand how many times I've had a fairway lie with very little fringe to carry and had lots of room for the ball to roll out. It's simply not a shot that happens often.

 

 

And there's no one I've ever met in your toss the ball example that isn't throwing the ball in the air and letting it roll. Don't know a single person that would roll it on the ground the entire way.

[dpb5031]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's no situation where a running chip with a lower lofted club is the wrong choice either. Lots of variables in course conditions that will dictate.

 

 

[bluedot]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's no situation where a running chip with a lower lofted club is the wrong choice either. Lots of variables in course conditions that will dictate.

 

Exactly! Everything is dependent on the lie and the conditions between the ball and the hole. The advocates of methods the Rule of 12, which I fully admit to being, say that you use a variety of clubs up to and including the LW to chip.

 

But there are a LOT of people on this thread that ARE saying that you should ONLY use a lofted club. That's the weird part.

[bluedot]

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

These analogies are, of course, completely irrelevant. When you are throwing to the pitcher or to first, the target is in the air; it isn't a hole in the ground. Not only is the target in the air, it doesn't matter how far the ball would (or would not) roll IF it wasn't caught. In basketball, the basket happens to be TEN FEET in the air, and the ball has to come in from above. Those have absolutely ZERO in common with getting golf ball across a green.

 

I have NEVER disputed that it is easy to chip with a LW, nor that there are a lot of occasions that the LW would be the club of choice. But nobody has answered the $64 question that I keep asking: If carry is so easy to judge compared to roll, then why aren't any of you chipping with your LW instead of putting when you're already on the green?

 

I already answered that and told your logic was tragically flawed. On the green you're on a flat smooth surface with nothing in front of you. And if there is something in front of you or a massive slope I HAVE pitched it with a lob wedge because it will end up closer to the hole than a putt from the same location. When you miss the green those situation arent close to the same. Overwhelming majority of the time you are close the hole but off the green the ball will be in the rough, and must carry a certain distance to reach the green, and then stop once landing one the green. The best club for that shot is a lofted wedge. The overwhelming majority of shots around the greens of any course with modern grasses require the ball to be played in the air for he highest probability of success. In the last 20 rounds I've played I can't count on one hand how many times I've had a fairway lie with very little fringe to carry and had lots of room for the ball to roll out. It's simply not a shot that happens often.

 

 

And there's no one I've ever met in your toss the ball example that isn't throwing the ball in the air and letting it roll. Don't know a single person that would roll it on the ground the entire way.

 

I've got a fair amount of experience with tragedy in life, and I'm not sure that my logic, however flawed, qualifies as tragic. But thanks for the evaluation.

[Krt22]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's no situation where a running chip with a lower lofted club is the wrong choice either. Lots of variables in course conditions that will dictate.

 

Exactly! Everything is dependent on the lie and the conditions between the ball and the hole. The advocates of methods the Rule of 12, which I fully admit to being, say that you use a variety of clubs up to and including the LW to chip.

 

But there are a LOT of people on this thread that ARE saying that you should ONLY use a lofted club. That's the weird part.

 

I don't think so, I think its the other way around. Jag made the initial assertion that NO should use only a LW around the green and if you arent using your LW, PW, 8iron, 6iron and getting the ball rolling ASAP that you are losing strokes every single round and that using only a LW is inherently wrong.

 

All we are saying is you can in fact use a LW for most of your shots and still be very good at golf. What method you choose to implement and practice is up to you, but I think most of this debate came from that initial quote.

 

Ok, I give up. I'm "discussing" this with people who say they would try to toss a golf ball in the hole instead of rolling it from 24' away for money.

 

Give someone a baseball and ask them to toss it to first or toss it to the pitcher...or a basket ball from the free throw line or three point line. Anyone who has tossed a ball around just a bit can get the distance control down pretty easily. Same goes for distance control chipping with a LW.

 

These analogies are, of course, completely irrelevant. When you are throwing to the pitcher or to first, the target is in the air; it isn't a hole in the ground. Not only is the target in the air, it doesn't matter how far the ball would (or would not) roll IF it wasn't caught. In basketball, the basket happens to be TEN FEET in the air, and the ball has to come in from above. Those have absolutely ZERO in common with getting golf ball across a green.

 

I have NEVER disputed that it is easy to chip with a LW, nor that there are a lot of occasions that the LW would be the club of choice. But nobody has answered the $64 question that I keep asking: If carry is so easy to judge compared to roll, then why aren't any of you chipping with your LW instead of putting when you're already on the green?

 

I disagree, my point wasnt that someone would try to slam dunk it into the hole, its that one can figure out how far to properly carry a shot without having it roll the entire way with a little practice. The main argument the rolling folks have is that its hard to judge how far to carry a ball in the air and my comment was to show that simply isnt true. Judging how far to carry it in the air is no different than judging how hard it is to hit a a lag putt. As long as you have good technique and a little practice you can be quite proficient.

[Krt22]

People that ONLY use their lob wedge on all green side shots are absolutely and unequivocally hurting their scoring ability.

 

It is imperative to learn to get the ball on the green and rolling as soon as possible. The more you can treat pitch shots and chip shots like a putt, the better you will score. Unless there is serious slope or danger beyond the hole, you would like to see your pitches and chips ROLLING past the hole 100% of the time if they do not go in. Obviously it will not happen 100% of the time, but that should be the goal. The old cliche, "never up, never in", is entirely true. You must give the ball a chance to go in.

 

Attempting to Lob the ball on every possible occasion drastically decreases your chance of Rolling The ball in. You will end up with far too many balls short of the hole that never had an opportunity to go in. Even if you are an incredible short putter, but you will still score worse because you will be trying to save par from short of the hole far too often.

 

Virtually every really good golfer learns to use less lofted clubs around the green whenever possible. Certainly there are cases where the green is severely sloped or there is a nasty tier in the middle of the green that dictates a lob shot is the way to go, but GENERALLY speaking, getting the ball on the green and rolling as soon as possible will statistically increase your number of birdies and par saves.

 

Learning to use a 6, 8, pitch or gap wedge correctly around the greens is an absolute necessity to lowering your scores.

 

As to why "old guys" use hybrids for everything around the greens. Well.....I have not seen this myself terribly often, but this certainly is a valid form of chipping. I personally have never hit a hybrid I liked so I've never owned one to try it.

 

Here is his initial quote in case you missed it.

[The Pearl]

This thread has gone astray.

 

 

To the original question...

 

I am assuming by "old guys", the referenced gentlemen in the OP's original post are probably around 50+ yrs. old. I have significant anecdotal experience playing with the 50+ age group and I can tell you with relative certainty that "chipping" for the majority of these golfers is the second weakest part of their games, only out done by pitching. I am talking guys with hdcp from 7 or 8 and higher, not the low cap guys. If you are a low cap player or a guy who is a natural chipper, you can hit all the lofts required around the green or you can use one club exclusively for most of your chips, be it a LW or SW or something else.

 

By the time "old guys" get to the point where they are pulling out the hybrid for most of the chip shots, you can bet they have been through all the chipping woes from LW to SW to 7 iron and all lofts in between. If you have ever seen anybody with the chip yips, it is unbearable to watch. I play with two guys that have simply given up and putt everything up to yards or so off the green if possible.

[marte]

Played a round a couple days ago with a couple of older guys. They both chipped with a hybrid and tried to run the ball to the hole. The closest they ever got it to was 10 feet. It seemed very hit or miss. I used a lob wedge for everything and got it within 5 feet always. My balls also bounced once and stopped. My question is why do most older guys not use a lob wedge for all chipping?

Perhaps these old guys tried lob wedge and decided hybrid was better for their game. Do you know, did you ask? If you didn't you are pretty quick to judge as you would have limited knowledge of their game. You ask.."why do most older guys not use a lob wedge for all chipping". Have you played with A LOT of other old guys besides these 2? Did they all chip with hybrids? If so, guess your question is somewhat valid regarding YOUR experience with lots of old guys. But I doubt very much this is the case. All the old guys I golf with (except one) use a variety of clubs to chip with..none use a hybrid. And it doesn't sound like any old guys on this thread chip exclusively (if at all) with hybrids. So I think you ran into an unusual situation.

 

As to why most older guys don't use a lob wedge for ALL chipping-I doubt very few players (except pros and highly skilled players) use LW for ALL chips. But my theory on old guys and chipping with LW is that this is a fairly new method and most wouldn't even know about "use the bounce". Nor would they care. My experience with trying to chip with my 60* was was not good and I would have had to put in way too much time and effort to be decent at it. Sometimes ball would stop dead, sometimes it would roll out. Results were just too inconsistent for my liking, and like I said, didn't want to (and couldn't) put in the practice time to get proficient at it. Why bother, I'm already a good chipper with 9i - 54* SW.

Should say, I have no problem with players using LB for ALL chips if they are comfortable doing that and consistently get it near the hole. Just not for me or any old guys I play with (but one).

[Sean2]

I don't think anyone is saying that there's no situation where a running chip with a lower lofted club is the wrong choice either. Lots of variables in course conditions that will dictate.

 

Exactly. I use my LW constantly from a variety of lies/conditions. I've seen other folks use 8-irons, hybrids, etc. Use what you are comfortable with and gives you the best results. For me it's the LW.

[harolease]

This thread needs to die....

Played a round a couple days ago with a couple of older guys. They both chipped with a hybrid and tried to run the ball to the hole. The closest they ever got it to was 10 feet. It seemed very hit or miss. I used a lob wedge for everything and got it within 5 feet always. My balls also bounced once and stopped. My question is why do most older guys not use a lob wedge for all chipping?

 

See the uproar you caused?

 

next time play with younger guys or leave your LW at home. :taunt: