New $500 Flightscope personal launch monitor (MERGED)

[J_Birdie]

I would love this if I did not need stickers for spin at the range

[somaplr]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

 

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

 

 

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

[IsleOfMan]

Also, IsleOfMan...I wouldn't expect the RMotion to have any more/less accuracy than that of Skypro/Swingbyte...etc. It's the exact same technology. Speaking from personal experience, it is not something you'd use to fine tune something like swing path...unless you're currently around 20* out to in, and you're hoping to get inside of 5* +/- 5*...

 

A couple of big things that have impressed the few beta testers I've read info from is that the calibration done by RMotion against Trackman results have really dialed in its calculations. Also, I've probably overcome 80% of my swing path problems in the last 6 months, so I should have said I'm really interested in the RMotion for face angle info. If I can start hitting the ball with the face consistently square and eliminate the 2-way miss, I think I can get into the mid single digits by the end of next year (at least at the relatively short/easy courses I play regularly... I'm sure a 7000 tree-lined track with 8 water holes would chew me up and spit me out).

[Hondabuff]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

 

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

 

 

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

 

Just relaying the message from my email from FS. Your going to hate life if they used the same Radar X3 aren't you? I work in the Cellular Com business and work side by side with some brilliant RF Engineers and the parts are beyond dirt cheap. You can build a bad a** DIY 2.4Ghz radar from a MIT kit for under $200 that runs on a AA batteries and coffee cans that you can pick up airplanes with. The cost is in the R/D of the software to interpret all the data and package it up into a neat and tidy GUI for Joe Schmo to use. Looking at FS's design patents they probably have the radar aperture board under $100 their cost. probably another $30 wrapped up into the case and 3.7v 1050mAh Li-on battery for another $4 and $2 Bluetooth board.. Selling them at $500 they are still making huge margin on the units. The software they already had developed for other units and are just going to strip down and repackaged to make it work on an IOS app. Texas Instruments makes SAR's boards that are under $500 and will have a 5 mile range. If your on in the IN with the FS guys ask one of their RF guys, I'm sure they will talk your ear off. You can probably built the Mevo from a Pi3 for $150 but wouldn't have the software to do anything with it.

[QMany]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

You keep saying this, can you please expound? What is the difference in technology? Is this from FlightScope or just your opinion? FlightScope's statements on the issue have been inconsistent.

[dw1970]

Just strange no real detailed reviews out there, almost that they have blocked release of any info....

[IsleOfMan]

I'm sure there's an embargo for beta testers.

[tobybear]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

 

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

 

 

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

 

Just relaying the message from my email from FS. Your going to hate life if they used the same Radar X3 aren't you? I work in the Cellular Com business and work side by side with some brilliant RF Engineers and the parts are beyond dirt cheap. You can build a bad a** DIY 2.4Ghz radar from a MIT kit for under $200 that runs on a AA batteries and coffee cans that you can pick up airplanes with. The cost is in the R/D of the software to interpret all the data and package it up into a neat and tidy GUI for Joe Schmo to use. Looking at FS's design patents they probably have the radar aperture board under $100 their cost. probably another $30 wrapped up into the case and 3.7v 1050mAh Li-on battery for another $4 and $2 Bluetooth board.. Selling them at $500 they are still making huge margin on the units. The software they already had developed for other units and are just going to strip down and repackaged to make it work on an IOS app. Texas Instruments makes SAR's boards that are under $500 and will have a 5 mile range. If your on in the IN with the FS guys ask one of their RF guys, I'm sure they will talk your ear off. You can probably built the Mevo from a Pi3 for $150 but wouldn't have the software to do anything with it.

 

I didnt understand half the technical part of that but it certainly confirms what I suspected about the cost of the actual components. Its all about the software and thats where the price of these units will cover.

 

This is just the first step but its finally great to see the cost of these products to the end user go down

[somaplr]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

 

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

 

 

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

 

Just relaying the message from my email from FS. Your going to hate life if they used the same Radar X3 aren't you? I work in the Cellular Com business and work side by side with some brilliant RF Engineers and the parts are beyond dirt cheap. You can build a bad a** DIY 2.4Ghz radar from a MIT kit for under $200 that runs on a AA batteries and coffee cans that you can pick up airplanes with. The cost is in the R/D of the software to interpret all the data and package it up into a neat and tidy GUI for Joe Schmo to use. Looking at FS's design patents they probably have the radar aperture board under $100 their cost. probably another $30 wrapped up into the case and 3.7v 1050mAh Li-on battery for another $4 and $2 Bluetooth board.. Selling them at $500 they are still making huge margin on the units. The software they already had developed for other units and are just going to strip down and repackaged to make it work on an IOS app. Texas Instruments makes SAR's boards that are under $500 and will have a 5 mile range. If your on in the IN with the FS guys ask one of their RF guys, I'm sure they will talk your ear off. You can probably built the Mevo from a Pi3 for $150 but wouldn't have the software to do anything with it.

 

Well it's not the same radar as the X3 because it only has the capabilities to track the first 15-20 ft of the ball and it only tracks range. The X3 uses BOTH mulifrequncy 3D radar and high speed image capturing and processing by cameras simultaneously. Again, like I said it's not the same tracking hardware and doesn't use the same radar technology, so I have no reason to hate life.

[dw1970]

Just strange no real detailed reviews out there, almost that they have blocked release of any info....

Didn't they just reveal it to the market at the PGA show last month? Which means even PGA members/coaches had t seen it until then. It isn't available to purchase (or even demo from what I've heard) until the end of March/April.

 

Is this normal for this company - creating hype? I'm always dubious when we have a lack of info/reviews so close to a product being available - it normally points to a mediocre product....

[matchavez]

I find it funny when components guys try to talk about devices as if there isn't a ton of knowledge that goes into turning a profit. Most stuff costs 1/4 each parts, labour, engineering, and margin. If you are just building stuff off Aliexpress parts, you are totally missing what added value is. I'll happily pay $1000 for a phone that is $250 in parts as long as the experience is engineered to a polish.

 

I run Linux at work. I don't at home.

 

I buy custom clubs, but I don't build custom clubs.

 

I buy computers, but I don't bother to build them (even though I can).

 

I don't build radar golf monitors either. That's why there is hype. TCOGS is important. Just saying.

[wundej]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

 

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

 

 

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

 

Just relaying the message from my email from FS. Your going to hate life if they used the same Radar X3 aren't you? I work in the Cellular Com business and work side by side with some brilliant RF Engineers and the parts are beyond dirt cheap. You can build a bad a** DIY 2.4Ghz radar from a MIT kit for under $200 that runs on a AA batteries and coffee cans that you can pick up airplanes with. The cost is in the R/D of the software to interpret all the data and package it up into a neat and tidy GUI for Joe Schmo to use. Looking at FS's design patents they probably have the radar aperture board under $100 their cost. probably another $30 wrapped up into the case and 3.7v 1050mAh Li-on battery for another $4 and $2 Bluetooth board.. Selling them at $500 they are still making huge margin on the units. The software they already had developed for other units and are just going to strip down and repackaged to make it work on an IOS app. Texas Instruments makes SAR's boards that are under $500 and will have a 5 mile range. If your on in the IN with the FS guys ask one of their RF guys, I'm sure they will talk your ear off. You can probably built the Mevo from a Pi3 for $150 but wouldn't have the software to do anything with it.

 

I didnt understand half the technical part of that but it certainly confirms what I suspected about the cost of the actual components. Its all about the software and thats where the price of these units will cover.

 

This is just the first step but its finally great to see the cost of these products to the end user go down

 

No, it really isn't only about the software. It's about the entire product development process. It is about recouping costs and profiting from mechanical and electrical engineering design, software design, quality control, supply chain management, marketing (although that is almost nonexistent at this point and they must have taken a page out of Callaways book on this one)....,it is about what goes into making it a product.

 

Just because the radar may be cheap from a parts perspective, doesn't mean all the cost comes from software development. One could argue that they already have all that figured out with their ball flight laws, data processing algorithms, and UI that is already available on their other units. So software should be cheap, right? Just use the existing "indoor" mode from the X Series to ensure it only tracks the first 20' or so and voila, stripped down Flightscope. Fact is, every time you change any bit of hardware or software, there is just as much time in validation and QA as there is in specification of the part.

 

Did they use the same foundation for development of this product? Most likely. Did they use the same radar hardware, I doubt it. I don't believe they even use the same hardware between the Xi series and the X2/3 series.

 

They have to love all the speculation about this. It's annoying, but I think this is a marketing tactic we will see more often in the future. Release a small bit of data to let people start creating a buzz, only risk is that if people start driving false statements FS risks a lot of annoyed customers.

[Hondabuff]

I almost suspect that the MEVO isn't 100% quite ready for production yet. I think I'm going to sit out the first batch and wait and see some of the reviews when they first start coming in. Debit card will be on standby.

[goatbarn]

Also, IsleOfMan...I wouldn't expect the RMotion to have any more/less accuracy than that of Skypro/Swingbyte...etc. It's the exact same technology. Speaking from personal experience, it is not something you'd use to fine tune something like swing path...unless you're currently around 20* out to in, and you're hoping to get inside of 5* +/- 5*...

 

A couple of big things that have impressed the few beta testers I've read info from is that the calibration done by RMotion against Trackman results have really dialed in its calculations. Also, I've probably overcome 80% of my swing path problems in the last 6 months, so I should have said I'm really interested in the RMotion for face angle info. If I can start hitting the ball with the face consistently square and eliminate the 2-way miss, I think I can get into the mid single digits by the end of next year (at least at the relatively short/easy courses I play regularly... I'm sure a 7000 tree-lined track with 8 water holes would chew me up and spit me out).

 

Again, I wouldn't rely on the accuracy of these gyroscope-type devices for that very sensitive of swing info. A difference of 2* makes a huge impact on ball flight. I have no idea what tolerance they can state for face angle info, but I doubt it's even +/- 3-4*.

 

Shaft droop, shaft twisting, face point contact...etc. All these things are not picked up by these devices...face angle would be the least accurate of any measurement it makes.

[dcmidnight]

I almost suspect that the MEVO isn't 100% quite ready for production yet. I think I'm going to sit out the first batch and wait and see some of the reviews when they first start coming in. Debit card will be on standby.

 

Same here. I'd much rather buy something a month or two after I wanted - and make sure it works the way I want - then the other way around.

 

FWIW they said on Twitter that it will work with Android. It wasnt clear if that means it "will work with Android by the time its released" or "its working now".

 

Either way, I'll wait.

[somaplr]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

You keep saying this, can you please expound? What is the difference in technology? Is this from FlightScope or just your opinion? FlightScope's statements on the issue have been inconsistent.

 

Yes, directly from FS...and not some random employee answering phones.

 

I mean it's pretty easy to deduce if you know a little about the technology that they don't have anywhere close to the same capabilities. They aren't putting in radars that cost thousands of dollars to build and just turning off features in their basic unit. Tracking something for 15 ft. with no axis direction isn't all that complicated, like said above. It's when you're tracking something with axis direction and spin the whole way things get very complicated. There's a reason there are basically only 2 main companies that do this and they aren't hurting. All you have to do is google Henri Johnson and realize FS has been growing revies 30% year over year for quite some time.

[QMany]

Since it definitely seems to be 2D data only, I'm 99% sure I'm going to pick up an old Vector Pro, the R-Motion Golf when it's released, or both, especially if R-Motion ever releases at least a basic mobile app. The R-Motion in particular seems like it could be quite useful at the range due to its small size, as long as there's a way to use it with a mobile app for basic swing path data (even without TGC simulation) in a similar fashion to the ball data Mevo will provide.

Confirmed by FlightScope, 3D Doppler System is the same used in their other units. Metallic stickers used for tracking the ball indoors.

Again, it's not the same...tracking the ball "like" their high end units is the not the same as the technology in their "other units". It's not even close to the same technology.

You keep saying this, can you please expound? What is the difference in technology? Is this from FlightScope or just your opinion? FlightScope's statements on the issue have been inconsistent.

 

Yes, directly from FS...and not some random employee answering phones.

 

I mean it's pretty easy to deduce if you know a little about the technology that they don't have anywhere close to the same capabilities. They aren't putting in radars that cost thousands of dollars to build and just turning off features in their basic unit. Tracking something for 15 ft. with no axis direction isn't all that complicated, like said above. It's when you're tracking something with axis direction and spin the whole way things get very complicated. There's a reason there are basically only 2 main companies that do this and they aren't hurting. All you have to do is google Henri Johnson and realize FS has been growing revies 30% year over year for quite some time.

 

Have you ever tried not to be so condescending or is that just natural and unavoidable?

[QMany]

It is almost like the company who is taking preorders should have more information, a consistent message, and better customer service. They certainly could have done much better with this rollout.

[b.helts]

So natural and unavoidable then. Got it.

 

FWIW and I think I said this earlier in the thread, i think this thing is going to be primarily useful for driver fittings outdoors. To get spin numbers and launch angles and that's about it.

 

I think you're going to have to see the flight, so indoors won't work.

 

Edit: dude deleted his post should have quoted it.

[somaplr]

Flightscope Xi model size

 

11.8" x 10.8" x 1.6" 4 lbs.

 

Mevo Size

 

3.55 x 2.76 x 1.18 in 0.5 lbs

 

People can make their own conclusions with that information

[Hondabuff]

Flightscope Xi model size

 

11.8" x 10.8" x 1.6" 4 lbs.

 

Mevo Size

 

3.55 x 2.76 x 1.18 in 0.5 lbs

 

People can make their own conclusions with that information

 

 

Its not like they are going to start making them bigger. Moore's law says otherwise.

[somaplr]

Flightscope Xi model size

 

11.8" x 10.8" x 1.6" 4 lbs.

 

Mevo Size

 

3.55 x 2.76 x 1.18 in 0.5 lbs

 

People can make their own conclusions with that information

 

 

Its not like they are going to start making them bigger.

 

 

You can't possibly come close squeezing even remotely the same components and radar technology/cameras into something that's 1/4 the size

 

The new X3 and Xi are the same size

[goatbarn]

Some info paraphrased from a source I trust very much:

 

"It measures spin but not spin axis. It potentially can measure horizontal azimuth but it won't be displayed. It will not measure any chips or putts at all. You need 8 feet distance to screen or net and 6-7 feet behind the golfer for it to work. So you need 14-15 feet of depth. It absolutely needs sticker on the ball. There are no plans for simulation at this time. Only total spin is measured."

[Hondabuff]

Some info paraphrased from a source I trust very much:

 

"It measures spin but not spin axis. It potentially can measure horizontal azimuth but it won't be displayed. It will not measure any chips or putts at all. You need 8 feet distance to screen or net and 6-7 feet behind the golfer for it to work. So you need 14-15 feet of depth. It absolutely needs sticker on the ball. There are no plans for simulation at this time. Only total spin is measured."

 

Wasn't the same guy who told you it was 2D radar was it?

[goatbarn]

Some info paraphrased from a source I trust very much:

 

"It measures spin but not spin axis. It potentially can measure horizontal azimuth but it won't be displayed. It will not measure any chips or putts at all. You need 8 feet distance to screen or net and 6-7 feet behind the golfer for it to work. So you need 14-15 feet of depth. It absolutely needs sticker on the ball. There are no plans for simulation at this time. Only total spin is measured."

 

Wasn't the same guy who told you it was 2D radar was it?

 

Hah, never said 2D anything. Doesn't even make sense in terms of radar...confused?

[somaplr]

2D radar measure 2 positional coordinates to locate an object. 3D radar measures 3.

 

range, elevation, azimuth

[Hondabuff]

2D radar measure 2 positional coordinates to locate an object. 3D radar measures 3.

 

FlightScopes web page says 27, Have you been talking to Goatbarns guy too?

[somaplr]

2D radar measure 2 positional coordinates to locate an object. 3D radar measures 3.

 

FlightScopes web page says 27, Have you been talking to Goatbarns guy too?

 

I hope you're being sarcastic or an intentional troll. You do know what a dimension is, yes?

 

Funny how you cut out the range, elevation, azimuth part - those are dimensions. 3 measurable dimensions continuously. 3 dimensions, not 27.

[t4t3r]

His guy is from another forum, and has been a source of reliable information on a number of other similar products. He's also had access to those products prior to release and along with beta testing them, has provided info on that testing to the same forum. He is legit.

[Hondabuff]

His guy is from another forum, and has been a source of reliable information on a number of other similar products. He's also had access to those products prior to release and along with beta testing them, has provided info on that testing to the same forum. He is legit.

 

He needs to go buy that guy some drinks and get some more detailed info for us! I have $500 on the line.