New $500 Flightscope personal launch monitor (MERGED)

[somaplr]

Just got off the phone with Flightscope technical support: "If you are familiar with our other units, the radar is tracking the same way. So if you are hitting indoors, it will measure until it hits the net. If you are outdoors, it will measure the entire ball flight."

Perhaps the unit has a weaker radar than the higher priced units, but with the stickers, it is still capable of following the entire ball flight. If true, this sounds promising. And the circuit-writing pen sounds like a great idea to minimize the use of stickers at the range. Very intrigued.

I can't imagine people buying this thing and putting a pen to use on every single range ball they hit. It would seem that if you are outdoors, it's still going to be able to tell total distance, but spin numbers will be in extreme error. You can see the ball flight outside. The efficient way to use the stickers is to hit into a net, therefore needing to be inside and not being about to tell the ball flight direction, but you would get spin. Seems to be a gap of a problem here. It sounds like the unit answers one question, and to be used for outside use...and that question is - how far did I hit that ball and what are my ball speed numbers?

No, I'm not going to put a mark, or a sticker, on every ball I hit at the range. Personally, I would be using it mostly into a net at my house. But to be able to take it to the range and "reality check" my ball flight vs. the numbers I am getting on the unit seems useful. Does this unit tell anything about spin axis? Obviously, this would help tremendously to judge ball flight when you are hitting into a net. I can put a target on my net to tell me if I am starting the ball where I want, but whether its turning left or right is tough to judge, other than by feel.

 

It does not measure spin axis - that's kind of a big deal for an indoor unit IMO

[somaplr]

Basic radar-based systems can only measure ball and club speed. Everything else is calculated. I want this to be great, just like I wanted the ES14 to be great, but there's too much going on that can't be accounted for in even the best calculations. What I REALLY want to see is an affordable multi-sensor-type system that incorporates 2 or 3 types of measurement sensors... something like SkyTrak (ball speed, spin, launch angle) + P3Pro (club speed, club path, face angle) + Radar(ball speed, club speed) in the ~$2500-$3000 range could seemingly pull together several of these systems into an affordable package that could also offer more reliable measurement-based data with less variables, less calculation, and even some redundancy for sanity checks.

And frankly it should be highly possible. It's about time launch monitors come down to earth. Paying 30k like we do for Trackman systems is like still paying $8000 for a 60 inch plasma. It's high time the prices reflect the pricing in every other arena of technology. In my estimation they are about 400% too high.

 

ok, how much does a Trackman cost to make? I've heard this argument before and it doesn't make much sense. It's like saying a Ferrari F12dtf is overpriced. A trackman was never intended for retail consumption - it's not their business model.

[Z4Par]

I want to see how this comes out. I was an early adopter of the Skytrak. I liked it but the distance were never good. I hit my 7 iron avg 168 on Trackman. On skytrak, I barely hit 155 and the ball curvature is intense.

 

I as well had a Skytrak and just returned it. I finally came to the conclusion that it was my swing indoors vs. outdoors. However I still think Skytrak was measuring my final yardage 15-20 yards short because I had several sessions with Skytrak. I know I tagged some very good shots that did not come close to where I knew they should be. Glad I'm not alone. I think on any launch monitor the calculations are affected so much more by player A vs player B's swing (being pretty vanilla here I know but it's so true; at the end of the day its a machine and it does it's best to calculate with what it is limited to). I for one have never had ''good'' numbers on a launch monitor but I also relate that to swinging slightly different indoors. Doesn't feel like it but that's all I can hang my hat on at this point.

 

Be interesting to see if they will do a 30 day free trial since the unit is only selling for $500.00.

[golfcart22]

I'll be a buyer on 3/1.

[hef63303]

My gut feeling is you get what you pay for. An inexpensive model will give you some numbers to play with, but it is hard to believe that all of the numbers will be accurate.

[TollBros]

Basic radar-based systems can only measure ball and club speed. Everything else is calculated. I want this to be great, just like I wanted the ES14 to be great, but there's too much going on that can't be accounted for in even the best calculations. What I REALLY want to see is an affordable multi-sensor-type system that incorporates 2 or 3 types of measurement sensors... something like SkyTrak (ball speed, spin, launch angle) + P3Pro (club speed, club path, face angle) + Radar(ball speed, club speed) in the ~$2500-$3000 range could seemingly pull together several of these systems into an affordable package that could also offer more reliable measurement-based data with less variables, less calculation, and even some redundancy for sanity checks.

And frankly it should be highly possible. It's about time launch monitors come down to earth. Paying 30k like we do for Trackman systems is like still paying $8000 for a 60 inch plasma. It's high time the prices reflect the pricing in every other arena of technology. In my estimation they are about 400% too high.

 

ok, how much does a Trackman cost to make? I've heard this argument before and it doesn't make much sense. It's like saying a Ferrari F12dtf is overpriced. A trackman was never intended for retail consumption - it's not their business model.

 

High end doppler radar tracking devices for fishing are about 5k. 30K is absurd but unfortunately there aren't any reasonable units out there. 15k for a camera based system is probably even more of a gouging.

[JMH1220]

Sounds like a bust

[DaveGoodrich]

... A trackman was never intended for retail consumption - it's not their business model.

 

I think that is kind of the point - it would be great for consumers if someone could make it their business model. Given the generally declining costs of electronic components and manufacturing, etc., I assume that the only reason the costs are still so high is the patent holder can still demand the premium.

 

Even though a unit that provides all the professional data could potentially be sold at a profit at consumer prices, they may feel that they would saturate the retail consumer market quickly, and therefore that revenue wouldn't make up for the loss of higher margin sales to professionals. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware in this unit is capable of measuring all the parameters that a normal Flightscope does, but they want to maintain a two-tier pricing structure by turning certain data off in software/firmware.

[somaplr]

... A trackman was never intended for retail consumption - it's not their business model.

 

I think that is kind of the point - it would be great for consumers if someone could make it their business model. Given the generally declining costs of electronic components and manufacturing, etc., I assume that the only reason the costs are still so high is the patent holder can still demand the premium.

 

Even though a unit that provides all the professional data could potentially be sold at a profit at consumer prices, they may feel that they would saturate the retail consumer market quickly, and therefore that revenue wouldn't make up for the loss of higher margin sales to professionals. I wouldn't be surprised if the hardware in this unit is capable of measuring all the parameters that a normal Flightscope does, but they want to maintain a two-tier pricing structure by turning certain data off in software/firmware.

 

The Flightscope Xi has significantly more technology than the Mevo - they aren't even comparable machines. They don't have near the same hardware.

 

If you want to argue the difference between the Xi Tour vs GC2 HmT vs Trackman argument you're in more of the same arena.

[Golfrnut]

I enjoy the "analysis" from people on "hardware" before a product has even come out. :cheesy:

[somaplr]

I enjoy the "analysis" from people on "hardware" before a product has even come out. :cheesy:

 

It's 3D radar (Trackman, XI+, X2, etc) vs 2D radar (which only provides range and would be in the Mevo). 3D is exponentially more expensive and has obvious different hardware, especially when moving at 100mph, unlike tracking a fish.

[1nflteam]

There are a few good things about this compared to other units. First the metal dots on balls in not that big of a deal. Lets talk about the advantage of this. I am a cheap 12 handicapper ok 16 handicapper well really closer to 25 on a normal day. Now if wanted to get fit for a ball I got to say the chances of me doing that are slim. But when I get my mixed bag of used balls from ebay or my motherload from Rock bottom golf and the ones I get at xmas, I can now see what using a ball to fit my swing and what the results are. I used the Flightscope x2 at Mitchell fitting school and its a great tool to hit into a net in your back yard. You will now have the evidence if you have a ball that really works well with your swing your clubs and your wallet. Now you can order the correct used ball that fits your game and still be able to go to the range hit a few of your real balls out there then hit the range balls at that range and know what the difference is in distance for that range ball that day. It is true some days you hit them longer than others, so getting your real numbers the day you play while warming up will make you play better. the spin with range balls means so much less but you can throw a few dots on them and get that number if you want it. So please order it NOW. I want to but it from you on ebay in a few months. If you have money to buy two of them we can be friends. Ill fit your clubs Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

BTW just about everyone of us that tried the x2 in class thought it was spot on really in distance + or - 5-10 yards for me and I'm willing to bet it knew how far I really hit my clubs more that I did.(28 handicapper ) Now with all that said I have not looked at the unit on flightscope but I have to think its going to be pretty good and I know a person that has one and customer service is just great and that's worth something. I just hope you don't have to pay for a membership like the $$$$ units. Well I guess if your still reading this instead of playing golf it must be raining or cold as hell or your on the pot hiding from the family.

 

GO PATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Make golf Great again!

[ThinkingPlus]

Just got off the phone with Flightscope technical support:

 

"If you are familiar with our other units, the radar is tracking the same way. So if you are hitting indoors, it will measure until it hits the net. If you are outdoors, it will measure the entire ball flight."

 

If it does that reliably and accurately then we have a true game changer especially with a quick dot of a pen for range balls outdoors. Will be very capable indoors for most folks as well. Reviews will be very interesting and highly anticipated.

[pinhigh27]

Basic radar-based systems can only measure ball and club speed. Everything else is calculated. I want this to be great, just like I wanted the ES14 to be great, but there's too much going on that can't be accounted for in even the best calculations. What I REALLY want to see is an affordable multi-sensor-type system that incorporates 2 or 3 types of measurement sensors... something like SkyTrak (ball speed, spin, launch angle) + P3Pro (club speed, club path, face angle) + Radar(ball speed, club speed) in the ~$2500-$3000 range could seemingly pull together several of these systems into an affordable package that could also offer more reliable measurement-based data with less variables, less calculation, and even some redundancy for sanity checks.

And frankly it should be highly possible. It's about time launch monitors come down to earth. Paying 30k like we do for Trackman systems is like still paying $8000 for a 60 inch plasma. It's high time the prices reflect the pricing in every other arena of technology. In my estimation they are about 400% too high.

 

ok, how much does a Trackman cost to make? I've heard this argument before and it doesn't make much sense. It's like saying a Ferrari F12dtf is overpriced. A trackman was never intended for retail consumption - it's not their business model.

 

High end doppler radar tracking devices for fishing are about 5k. 30K is absurd but unfortunately there aren't any reasonable units out there. 15k for a camera based system is probably even more of a gouging.

 

alright so go make your own unit and sell it for 15k

 

your views on pricing seem so arbitrary

[BamafaninKY]

So we have every response from they'll be "back ordered immediately" to "sounds like a bust". Lol

 

I bet the former will be much more likely to occur. Hell, I'll pop down $500 if it just gives accurate carry distance.

[BenHoganSlam1953]

Definitely interested, even with the exchange. Don't mind the metal stickers as I'll just take balls home from the course range and use them the next time I'm there.

Though I was planning on renting access to our courses FlightScope to know my yardages and apex in order to tweak the fit of my clubs - this may be worth it.

[larciel]

In regards to putting the metallic sticker, do people think a Metallic Sharpie (http://www.sharpie.com/en-US/metallic-fine-point-permanent-marker-sp-00020--1) would work? I do have room for an indoor hitting setup and would like to use this at the range. I don't want to have to put a sticker on a bunch of balls but could easily mark them with a pen.

 

I was at pgass today and saw all the balls marked with black sharpies. I was like wtf? But Your post completed the puzzle.

[tigerstew]

Does anyone know if this will work hitting into a net in the garage? Like gc2?

[Sebmour]

I still wonder why people would put metal dot or stickers on range ball. Are your range balls your go to play balls?

 

My range is 225 with a huge net so our balls are really really limited flight. You use them only to warm up and not work on your game since they don't curve or fly the same.

 

This product can be very useful for balls fitting in a short game area and on course testing during practice session.

 

Like I said before, if it doesn't give you a ball flight then it's useless for indoors. The numbers won't mean much since spin axis and dispersion will be impossible to monitor.

[Golfrnut]

In regards to putting the metallic sticker, do people think a Metallic Sharpie (http://www.sharpie.c...ker-sp-00020--1) would work? I do have room for an indoor hitting setup and would like to use this at the range. I don't want to have to put a sticker on a bunch of balls but could easily mark them with a pen.

 

I was at pgass today and saw all the balls marked with black sharpies. I was like wtf? But Your post completed the puzzle.

 

They probably use one of the other launch monitors. Sharpies won't due much in terms of Flightscope units, but other units use the sharpie lines with their optical lenses to help read ball data.

[ib0o0]

I believe most of us want AoA, club path and face to path, but I guess you can't have those with a 500$ device. Also the recreational practice would make a huge impact, but then again, as stated before, without getting those numbers you can't figure that. I guess it's another year or two before we can get those KPI's in an affordable machine.

[reg1900]

Will a metallic pencil work like a sticker? So you could mark range balls and not waste the stickers. Anybody ever tested that?

 

Circuit writing pen.

 

I've used this one for many years. The pen/aluminum dots will help as they provide a better reflective surface for the radar frequency to hit and return to the antenna in the launch monitor.

 

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.174/.f

 

How many dots will the pen make? 1000 stickers cost $25 and the pen costs $30. So you'd want the pen to make well over 1000

[reg1900]

I still wonder why people would put metal dot or stickers on range ball. Are your range balls your go to play balls?

 

My range is 225 with a huge net so our balls are really really limited flight. You use them only to warm up and not work on your game since they don't curve or fly the same.

 

This product can be very useful for balls fitting in a short game area and on course testing during practice session.

 

Like I said before, if it doesn't give you a ball flight then it's useless for indoors. The numbers won't mean much since spin axis and dispersion will be impossible to monitor.

 

Yeah not much point putting a sticker on a range ball. They are pretty much all restricted distance, don't spin as much and fly far less so reading those numbers isn't going to help your game.

[linkerpan]

I get to my course early, go to the 17th hole and do my practice with my own nice balls from there. I can do hours before somebody arrives to play. So, this will work perfect for me.

[hitnhide]

Flightscope are not stupid. If this device could that exact same meassurements on the parameres mevo has as XI tour or better, who would buy their expensive ones anymore

 

I think it could be a fine product, but just as skytrak and other cheaper launch monitors it is not valid for real fitting. But for the hobby player it is propably a fine product

[tigerstew]

Does anyone know if this will work hitting into a net in the garage? Like gc2?

 

It works like it yes, but you're not going to have any idea on direction due to it being a 2D radar, only distance.

 

So if taking it to range does it track the ball? Or just give carry distance from calculations? What sort of machine is this?

[PJ72]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to monitor launch angle and spin rates. I mean, knowing them initially (during a fitting is essential) but why would you go to the range to check them?

 

Unless it has path and face angle it doesn't really tell me anything more than other devices a fraction of the cost.

 

Hard to get excited about this.

 

The personal launch monitor market is just like the mobile phone market - there is no perfect phone, there are always features missing that you want. And it's designed that way im pretty sure.

[somaplr]

Does anyone know if this will work hitting into a net in the garage? Like gc2?

 

It works like it yes, but you're not going to have any idea on direction due to it being a 2D radar, only distance.

 

So if taking it to range does it track the ball? Or just give carry distance from calculations? What sort of machine is this?

 

you're not going to see a visual flight pattern no - just giving you backspin and distance numbers and VLA

[jacot23]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to monitor launch angle and spin rates. I mean, knowing them initially (during a fitting is essential) but why would you go to the range to check them?

 

Unless it has path and face angle it doesn't really tell me anything more than other devices a fraction of the cost.

 

Hard to get excited about this.

 

The personal launch monitor market is just like the mobile phone market - there is no perfect phone, there are always features missing that you want. And it's designed that way im pretty sure.

 

What devices are cheaper that give you launch angle, spin, ball speed, swing speed?

[games]

Anyone know if these will sell retail, direct or both?