3w distance off the fairway

[SilverBullets]

good god this thread is a fun read.

 

I don't think anyone in here knows their true 'average' for every shot... We don't have shotlink dudes following us around logging every single swing we take. That's only real way to get that data right?

 

I am going to say I average about 180 yards off the deck with my 3w. That accounts for the random successful green hits from 265 and the tops/chunks/slices/hooks in between. I feel like the only way to satisfy some people in this thread is to say you can only hit your 3w 210 yards.

[Exactice808]

Points on game and course management of course is a whole different topic in itself and unrelated to how far someone "averages" a 3 wood, or any club, carry on the course. This is why topics get off discussion. Unintentional at times but average 3 wood carry off the deck is a far different topic than someone's idea of risk/reward on course management for trying to carry a water hazard at 230 or 250 or whatever it may be.

 

If someone claims he carries a 3 wood off the deck 250 average then ok. Mild trolling and coming in and saying it can't be done or you don't average that because you're not accounting for a bad lie or rough which will bring you average down or you can't hit it that far on average because it's not a "safe" play is unrelated.

 

Besides guys who can average a 250,260,270 carry off the turf rarely RARELY ever have a situation on the course when they're faced with an approach that long. Only reason I know how far a carry a 4 wood(don't carry a 3) is because of trackman.

 

I agree, so if you "rarely" ever have a situation, how can you claim it your shot? You can claim it your longest or under a perfect scenario, but to say this is your stock shot, just not enough to justify it thats it.

 

And more so, if you do come up to this "shot" and claim its your shot, do you in fact, capitalize on it and make eagle? Or Double eagle from the sound of these guys throwing darts at 270. This is seriously a pissing contest, and I have personally embarrassed myself enough. I know I have and I accept any criticism that comes as I likely deserve it. Lets just leave it as, I am a D!ck for saying someone cant carry their 3wood 270+ yards....... and be done with it,

 

 

Seriously im out, I apologize to those that I offended but, now I really feel like a jerk for prolonging, this....

[ptjn1201]

My good 3 woods off the deck (or the mats at the range) carry 200-210, so 215-230 with roll. I'm normally only thinking about it on one par 5, or if I skunk my tee shot elsewhere. Hit one off the tee on 2-3 doglegs. I get about the same carry with my 4W, so I'll probably start the season with that.

[CallTaylor]

This thread is so funny. Why does a guy who can hit a 3 wood off the deck care if random people they've never met on a golf forum believe them? I will say this, most golfers think they hit the ball farther than they do. Or at least high handicappers do. My friend is a Club builder/fitter says that half or more of the guys he builds for swears his trackman is not functioning properly. He just tells them No...you don't drive the ball 250. Hahaha. Now on this forum, it wouldn't surprise me if there were some crazy long hitters. You guys who carry a 3 wood off the ground 270 or 280 or whatever need to realize that A) you're in the top half of the percentile of the entire golfing population. And B) people (especially random people that don't know you on a golf forum) are not going to believe you. Me, I have to see it to believe it. A guy I hired could hit his 3 wood off the deck 285 carry. I saw that happen once or twice. The other 35 times I saw him try it, it went 150 into the trees or houses. Lol.

So to sum it up, it's ok if people don't believe you. Just watch out because some guys who don't hit the ball quite as long as you might just outscore you and piss you off. ?

[pinestreetgolf]

good god this thread is a fun read.

 

I don't think anyone in here knows their true 'average' for every shot... We don't have shotlink dudes following us around logging every single swing we take. That's only real way to get that data right?

 

I am going to say I average about 180 yards off the deck with my 3w. That accounts for the random successful green hits from 265 and the tops/chunks/slices/hooks in between. I feel like the only way to satisfy some people in this thread is to say you can only hit your 3w 210 yards.

 

Actually, its really easy to do that with a GPS app. You mark where you are. You hit the ball. You walk to where it went, select the next club, hit it again. At the end it gives you your score and a ton of other statistics. I do that and I know a ton of people who do as well. And it makes you a much much better player. The real good thing is your a better player on planet earth, not just in your own head. I don't know why you would say this as if its absurd. You should do exactly this.

 

I don't know why people who disagree feel the need to make the same arguments over and over and take them to ridiculous extremes. Nobody is arguing for a true average. This has been brought up at least eleven times. Its a weighted average, not a true linear average.

[Rosco1216]

Not a measuring contest. Some guy was getting drilled by what he claimed and then it got off topic saying he couldn't do it and other unrelated variables were brought up. The OP asked for what guys 3 wood averages off the fairway were. Not out of the rough, or the tee, or a suspect lie. Skill of the player was brought up but the averages dont change. A highly skilled player has an average he flies a club, same as a 10 or 20 cap, their discrepancy is just greater. Then it got off topic as someone saying he couldn't fly the ball a certain distance because he chose not to during a round. Then score and course management was brought up. These were all deviations from the OP's topic and skeptics trying discredit the guys claim of how far he averages a club off the fairway.

 

 

[SilverBullets]

So my input... 15* 3w off a standard fairway lie... I am giving it a go from 250-260 if there isn't a lot of trouble. I don't launch the M2 well off the fairway so it only carries 230 or so and rolls like hell. For what it's worth, my 910 5w (19*) also carries 230 or so but I launch it much better and it hits and stops. I went to the M2 as a tee club.

[pinestreetgolf]

Not a measuring contest. Some guy was getting drilled by what he claimed and then it got off topic saying he couldn't do it and other unrelated variables were brought up. The OP asked for what guys 3 wood averages off the fairway were. Not out of the rough, or the tee, or a suspect lie. Skill of the player was brought up but the averages dont change. A highly skilled player has an average he flies a club, same as a 10 or 20 cap, their discrepancy is just greater. Then it got off topic as someone saying he couldn't fly the ball a certain distance because he chose not to during a round. Then score and course management was brought up. These were all deviations from the OP's topic and skeptics trying discredit the guys claim of how far he averages a club off the fairway.

 

Dude, we let a ton go. The guy you're referring to claimed he could average 260-288 carry only with a 16.5* club off "a variety" of lies. Averaging 270 with a strong 3 wood is dicey at best, but that's just f*ing ridiculous. Its beyond the pale. He offered to post a swing video then got super angry when I asked him to yes, please post a video, because that is incredible. Note that after he offered to post a video, and being taken up on his offer, he has completely disappeared from the thread.

 

Its good that topics twist and turn. That's how people learn. Everyone yelling "270 I swear" doesn't help anyone. The OP wanted to start a discussion about how far people hit their 3 woods. We've generally stayed right there. Did you honestly want to read post after post of:

 

240

245

250

210

284

231

 

etc.... ????

[Rosco1216]

Not a measuring contest. Some guy was getting drilled by what he claimed and then it got off topic saying he couldn't do it and other unrelated variables were brought up. The OP asked for what guys 3 wood averages off the fairway were. Not out of the rough, or the tee, or a suspect lie. Skill of the player was brought up but the averages dont change. A highly skilled player has an average he flies a club, same as a 10 or 20 cap, their discrepancy is just greater. Then it got off topic as someone saying he couldn't fly the ball a certain distance because he chose not to during a round. Then score and course management was brought up. These were all deviations from the OP's topic and skeptics trying discredit the guys claim of how far he averages a club off the fairway.

 

Dude, we let a ton go. The guy you're referring to claimed he could average 260-288 carry only with a 16.5* club off "a variety" of lies. Averaging 270 with a strong 3 wood is dicey at best, but that's just f*ing ridiculous. Its beyond the pale. He offered to post a swing video then got super angry when I asked him to yes, please post a video, because that is incredible. Note that after he offered to post a video, and being taken up on his offer, he has completely disappeared from the thread.

 

Its good that topics twist and turn. That's how people learn. Everyone yelling "270 I swear" doesn't help anyone. The OP wanted to start a discussion about how far people hit their 3 woods. We've generally stayed right there. Did you honestly want to read post after post of:

 

240

245

250

210

284

231

 

etc.... ????

Yeah I didn't read post after post and just happened to venture in at the time he was getting bashed I guess.

[RipVan]

Thought about it, I have no idea how far I hit a 3W off the deck. I never need to hit that shot.

 

At nearly 60 years old, I've only been on a launch monitor three times. Once at Pine Valley, once with Jim Mclean and once at a golf shop. I've been to the Nationals in the Long Driving Championship.

 

Short answer would be a lot shorter than in my late 40's and early 50's. I'd post the driver and 3W swing speeds from those days but the dicks here would harass me and call me a liar.

[SurfDuffer]

Off a tee I'll hit a 3-wood 265 give or take depending on the wind. Off the turf there is no telling since its rare for me to hit a quality shot with a 3-wood off the turf. Its a mystery to me. Its a love hate thing.

 

My most recent 3-wood attempt off the turf was Sunday. After a perfect tee shot on a par 5 I was left with 250 to the pin of a very slight side hill lie. It was a little too far for my 2 or 3-iron and I was in such a good position that I'd have felt like a sissy not to at least try to put it on the green. Hit the 3-wood and the push I hit went wide right leaving me right of the bunker right of the green and almost OB......a little farther than pin high and short sided with the entire green going down hill. Doomed I made double from there. Delicate flop shot that went into the bunker.......followed by short sided bunker shot to a green sloping away. Chip on. 2-putt.

 

Should have layed up.

 

[pinestreetgolf]

Thought about it, I have no idea how far I hit a 3W off the deck. I never need to hit that shot.

 

At nearly 60 years old, I've only been on a launch monitor three times. Once at Pine Valley, once with Jim Mclean and once at a golf shop. I've been to the Nationals in the Long Driving Championship.

 

Short answer would be a lot shorter than in my late 40's and early 50's. I'd post the driver and 3W swing speeds from those days but the dicks here would harass me and call me a liar.

 

I like people who don't read the entire thread and jump right to the end.

 

"The dicks" issue isn't with your swing speed. We've gone over this ten times. I don't doubt people can mash it off a tee, where its all about speed. Off the deck, especially on average, is about WAY more than speed. That's why its so much harder. That's why,in this particular thread, I'm calling BS and not doing it in driver threads (or 3w off a tee threads). Off a tee and off the ground are worlds apart in terms of skill required to translate speed to distance.

 

I even give most people the benefit of the doubt. But 279 average *carry* with a 16.5* club? Some of these posts are from another planet.

 

Off a tee I'll hit a 3-wood 265 give or take depending on the wind. Off the turf there is no telling since its rare for me to hit a quality shot with a 3-wood off the turf. Its a mystery to me. Its a love hate thing.

 

My most recent 3-wood attempt off the turf was Sunday. After a perfect tee shot on a par 5 I was left with 250 to the pin of a very slight side hill lie. It was a little too far for my 2 or 3-iron and I was in such a good position that I'd have felt like a sissy not to at least try to put it on the green. Hit the 3-wood and the push I hit went wide right leaving me right of the bunker right of the green and almost OB......a little farther than pin high and short sided with the entire green going down hill. Doomed I made double from there. Delicate flop shot that went into the bunker.......followed by short sided bunker shot to a green sloping away. Chip on. 2-putt.

 

Should have layed up.

 

 

Is that google earth? How did you know where to start the line and where to stop it? Did you have it with you on the course? I only ask because its really clean and nice looking. if its a golf program, what program is it? I want to steal it.

 

It seems like the mistake would be attempting the flop. You can't afford to hit that short, ever. You should have had a 10 foot birdie putt, thats a big green. Aim to the front left and hit a simple spinny pitch. 3 wood was the correct play, trying to flop it near the pin and having that bunker in play was insanity. I've never played the hole (obviously) but trying to flop it over what looks to be a deep bunker that you simply cannot afford to be short into was ridiculous. Great wood shot, just take your 15 feet back up the hill for biride. Nothing wrong with that.

[Rosco1216]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

[North Butte]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

 

Hitting off turf? Not a tee, not a mat?

 

I'd say anyone who averages 270 carry on shots hit from a tight, level fairway lie is probably in the top 0.00001% of golfers (literally one in a million) in terms of ability to hit fairway woods off the deck.

 

There are plenty of guys on the PGA Tour who can't average 270 carry with a 3-wood off the deck.

[Exactice808]

I gotta come back here, and Apologize, I could not sleep last night because of this thread. I think I figured it out.

 

Pinestreet and a couple others, our thoughts while warranted are off base in this thread, sorta. (Im going to take the high road on this one)

 

 

1) First and foremost, I started messing with the trajectory optimizer, and realized a couple of things, In this day and age, 109mph swing speed for a 3 wood is not rare anymore, Actually now I think its more common than we know of.

 

2) with that anything with a quality strike of 109mph or greater can produce a 250+ carry 3 wood, if conditions permit, with these kids hitting driver 125+mph having a 110+mph 3wood is not so out of this world

 

3) With that, in this day and age, I think a 250+ carry 3 wood is NOT out of the ordinary anymore be it 13.5* or 15*.

 

4) The PGA charts that I put up show a swing speed of 113 mph driver speed, which is well under the "real" numbers these days 169.5 balll speed @ 1.5 smash, We are seeing 180+mph ball speeds for drivers, so 160mph needed for a 3 wood to carry is not so far off.

 

5) People do in fact have more options to say their 3 wood carries 250+ yards, with launch monitors, they can hit hundreds of shots and get an average on the LM, this gives them a "goal line" of their distance, if they are effective on the course is really out of anyone's control they do or they dont, but it does not negate the fact that they hit 1000' 3 woods on an LM and it averaged their distance 270.

 

6) This goes to my distance thread, the only way to get a base number is to just hit as many shots and get a distance, its like my PW, 125 yards, I am going to hit a bunch of them and say my distance is 125, but to take it to the course and execute it, sometimes Im going to hit it longer, shorter, miss completely, but generally its 125 yards, The only difference will be the longer shots, that I have a choice to not take a chance or to go for it....that is the only difference. YET again, not negating that at anyone time I could hit a 290 yard 3 wood 5ft from the pin for eagle extremely unlikely but possible

 

 

With that, my misguided post, while with good intentions were in error and I apologize to those that I offended and or affected.

 

I will say this, yes I use the Gold Standard of the PGA tour as I consider their ball striking ability the top of the hill, BUT, there are many ways to get around a golf course and a PGA tour is not the only way, So again to those if you can or can't accept my apology, I hope we can move on from this thread!

[Rosco1216]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

 

Hitting off turf? Not a tee, not a mat?

 

I'd say anyone who averages 270 carry on shots hit from a tight, level fairway lie is probably in the top 0.00001% of golfers (literally one in a million) in terms of ability to hit fairway woods off the deck.

 

There are plenty of guys on the PGA Tour who can't average 270 carry with a 3-wood off the deck.

 

Yes, turf.

 

This is what I'm talking about. I posted the hypothetical about what if that was how someone got their average of 270, would that be sufficient for him to believe he averages 270 carry as his number before any other lie, wind or course variables?

 

Golfwrx is the the top 1% of most amateur golfers and stating there are plenty of guys on the PGA tour that can't average 270 off the deck with a 3 wood is not a relevant argument. There's plenty of guys on the PGA that can't fly a driver 270 either, so what. Distance threads on here have long been trolled by guys trying to discredit because of PGA statistics.

[pinestreetgolf]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

 

Assuming you mean with a relatively neutral path and face, I would say that it would depend quite a bit on that player's mental game. If he is strong mentally, can judge lies well and adjust his stance accordingly so his clubhead speed goes directly into the back of the ball, and can keep doing that despite the fact that a black screen is a whole lot less intimidating than a green complex, he is probably an incredible golfer. This is where plus caps get seperated from 2 caps. Both of them look great in a trackman bay.

 

A trackman bay is pretty good at reproducing tee shots (because fairways are insanely wide and lie isn't an issue) and short irons (Because in good players strike is almost never an issue, dispersion is). Long irons and woods off the ground are usually into intimidating-looking target areas (a 4" hole isn't a 20 yard wide fairway) and require a bigger swing more susceptible to pressure.

 

I would say that golfer is likely very very good mechanically. Whether he averages it on the course or not is likely mental, and I think a whole lot of people underestimate how hard that translation is *with woods and long irons* (but not with tee shots and short irons, which can be reproduced from a trackman bay almost verbatim unless the golfer is a complete head case).

 

I gotta come back here, and Apologize, I could not sleep last night because of this thread. I think I figured it out.

 

Pinestreet and a couple others, our thoughts while warranted are off base in this thread, sorta. (Im going to take the high road on this one)

 

 

1) First and foremost, I started messing with the trajectory optimizer, and realized a couple of things, In this day and age, 109mph swing speed for a 3 wood is not rare anymore, Actually now I think its more common than we know of.

 

2) with that anything with a quality strike of 109mph or greater can produce a 250+ carry 3 wood, if conditions permit, with these kids hitting driver 125+mph having a 110+mph 3wood is not so out of this world

 

3) With that, in this day and age, I think a 250+ carry 3 wood is NOT out of the ordinary anymore be it 13.5* or 15*.

 

4) The PGA charts that I put up show a swing speed of 113 mph driver speed, which is well under the "real" numbers these days 169.5 balll speed @ 1.5 smash, We are seeing 180+mph ball speeds for drivers, so 160mph needed for a 3 wood to carry is not so far off.

 

5) People do in fact have more options to say their 3 wood carries 250+ yards, with launch monitors, they can hit hundreds of shots and get an average on the LM, this gives them a "goal line" of their distance, if they are effective on the course is really out of anyone's control they do or they dont, but it does not negate the fact that they hit 1000' 3 woods on an LM and it averaged their distance 270.

 

6) This goes to my distance thread, the only way to get a base number is to just hit as many shots and get a distance, its like my PW, 125 yards, I am going to hit a bunch of them and say my distance is 125, but to take it to the course and execute it, sometimes Im going to hit it longer, shorter, miss completely, but generally its 125 yards, The only difference will be the longer shots, that I have a choice to not take a chance or to go for it....that is the only difference. YET again, not negating that at anyone time I could hit a 290 yard 3 wood 5ft from the pin for eagle extremely unlikely but possible

 

 

With that, my misguided post, while with good intentions were in error and I apologize to those that I offended and or affected.

 

I will say this, yes I use the Gold Standard of the PGA tour as I consider their ball striking ability the top of the hill, BUT, there are many ways to get around a golf course and a PGA tour is not the only way, So again to those if you can or can't accept my apology, I hope we can move on from this thread!

 

We are saying very different things.

 

I agree with you that a 109 mph quality strike with a 3 wood can produce a 250 carry. That is physics. I don't think that 6 caps are doing this on average.

 

Let me repeat it again:

 

1. I don't doubt tee averages. You control the lie and speed translates much more directly into carry.

2. I don't doubt top end 3 wood carries. You strike it well at speed and it will fly a long way.

 

I doubt the posters' ability to make a quality strike *during a round out of the lies you encounter in a round* at 109 mph on average. Its a doubt as to the strike quality off the deck on average. Not the top end, and not the speed.

 

Miles-per-hour matters very little when it comes to *average* off the deck. That is incredibly difficult to reproduce over and over and over. *That* is what I doubt, not the speed.

 

I'm not sure why we would want to move on from a thread people are learning from (well, at least I am).

[Exactice808]

We are saying very different things.

 

I agree with you that a 109 mph quality strike with a 3 wood can produce a 250 carry. That is physics. I don't think that 6 caps are doing this on average.

 

Let me repeat it again:

 

1. I don't doubt tee averages. You control the lie and speed translates much more directly into carry.

2. I don't doubt top end 3 wood carries. You strike it well at speed and it will fly a long way.

 

I doubt the posters' ability to make a quality strike *during a round out of the lies you encounter in a round* at 109 mph on average. Its a doubt as to the strike quality off the deck on average. Not the top end, and not the speed.

 

Miles-per-hour matters very little when it comes to *average* off the deck. That is incredibly difficult to reproduce over and over and over. *That* is what I doubt, not the speed.

 

I'm not sure why we would want to move on from a thread people are learning from (well, at least I am).

 

We are saying different things! That is my point, I agree with everything you say, the problem is we are looking through 2 different objective lenses as compared to the others posting here.

 

 

I agree, I doubt their "effective" average is any where near their, "striking" average. Again going back to a simpler realistic view, If I took 100 swings on a LM/range, I would "groove" a distance of 125 yards, But if I took the last 20 rounds how many times I hit my PW, and that a full shot, how "effective" I was hitting this 125 yard PW, the distance would probably be closer to 115 yards, REALISTICALLY.

 

We are infact discussing different things from the rest of the people in this thread!

 

So yes, Their average "STRIKING" distances (if they went to the range, went on an LM, had to PICK a base line number, It could be 270+ we agreed that is possible.

 

BUT what we are discussing, WHICH is different from them is their "EFFICIENT" Distance. Which is greatly different from their striking distance.

 

Thats it, nothing really more to say on this, Pine, I got you my friend, we are just discussing apples and oranges, and the more we do so the more ridiculous we LOOK in my honest opinion. Its a dead issue period....

 

Can they hit 270+ YES YES YES

 

if they took their data how effective they truly were, likely out of 10 shots collected over a bunch of rounds, it would likely not be better than a tour pro, BUT it could be further in distances, just not in efficiency!

[North Butte]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

 

Hitting off turf? Not a tee, not a mat?

 

I'd say anyone who averages 270 carry on shots hit from a tight, level fairway lie is probably in the top 0.00001% of golfers (literally one in a million) in terms of ability to hit fairway woods off the deck.

 

There are plenty of guys on the PGA Tour who can't average 270 carry with a 3-wood off the deck.

 

Yes, turf.

 

This is what I'm talking about. I posted the hypothetical about what if that was how someone got their average of 270, would that be sufficient for him to believe he averages 270 carry as his number before any other lie, wind or course variables?

 

Golfwrx is the the top 1% of most amateur golfers and stating there are plenty of guys on the PGA tour that can't average 270 off the deck with a 3 wood is not a relevant argument. There's plenty of guys on the PGA that can't fly a driver 270 either, so what. Distance threads on here have long been trolled by guys trying to discredit because of PGA statistics.

 

If he claims 10 shots out of 10 with CARRY distance of 270 off the deck then he is lying. Or at least exaggerating. Almost certainly.

 

I could talk about the top 1% of the few hundred golfers I've ever played with. Not a soul among them could sniff 270 (or 250) off the deck ten times out of ten. One time out of ten? Yeah, a few of them probably so. Five times out of ten? Not a chance. Ten shots in a row? It's laughable.

 

That's not trolling. I'm just describing the reality I've experienced over a few decades of playing 100+ times a year and the reality of the best players in the world. To my thinking, it'll take more than you saying "GolfWRX is the top 1% of golfers" to convince me there are hundreds, thousands, whatever or guys out there who hit fairway woods off the deck better than anyone I've ever seen.

[MtlJeff]

I can't remember the last time I tried to hit a 3 wood out of anything other than an ideal or semi ideal lie.

 

A sub optimal lie I'm going to hit hybrid just as far anyway so I hit hybrid since there's less chance of a poor result

 

Don't many decent golfers do this? We're weighing shots from poor lies into average, assuming all golfers are going to just blast 3 wood out of bad to terrible lies?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pinestreetgolf]

I can't remember the last time I tried to hit a 3 wood out of anything other than an ideal or semi ideal lie.

 

A sub optimal lie I'm going to hit hybrid just as far anyway so I hit hybrid since there's less chance of a poor result

 

Don't many decent golfers do this? We're weighing shots from poor lies into average, assuming all golfers are going to just blast 3 wood out of bad to terrible lies?

 

You are acting as if the person hitting the shot doesn't decide what club to hit. It is a direct correlation of your ability (or, more accurately, your perception of your own ability) that would lead you to hit or not hit a wood out of a particular lie. The fact that you don't feel comfortable hitting out of a given lie is a testament to your skill. A 15 cap probably can't hit a 3 wood off a downhill lie, however clean (we discussed this 4-5 pages ago). A scratch probably can, and there are degrees of grey everywhere in between.

 

Someone's ability (or lack of ability) to hit out of a bad lie directly (and should) impact their average.

 

Your post gets right to the heart of what I've been saying for 11 pages. A player's ability to judge a lie and decide whether or not to play it a certain way is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT to his 3 wood average than his swing speed in a trackman bay.

 

This is why the word "average" is so important. It measures WAY MORE than your distance. It measures your ability to actually play golf, because you arn't getting to a 260 average misjudging lies.

 

We are saying very different things.

 

I agree with you that a 109 mph quality strike with a 3 wood can produce a 250 carry. That is physics. I don't think that 6 caps are doing this on average.

 

Let me repeat it again:

 

1. I don't doubt tee averages. You control the lie and speed translates much more directly into carry.

2. I don't doubt top end 3 wood carries. You strike it well at speed and it will fly a long way.

 

I doubt the posters' ability to make a quality strike *during a round out of the lies you encounter in a round* at 109 mph on average. Its a doubt as to the strike quality off the deck on average. Not the top end, and not the speed.

 

Miles-per-hour matters very little when it comes to *average* off the deck. That is incredibly difficult to reproduce over and over and over. *That* is what I doubt, not the speed.

 

I'm not sure why we would want to move on from a thread people are learning from (well, at least I am).

 

We are saying different things! That is my point, I agree with everything you say, the problem is we are looking through 2 different objective lenses as compared to the others posting here.

 

 

I agree, I doubt their "effective" average is any where near their, "striking" average. Again going back to a simpler realistic view, If I took 100 swings on a LM/range, I would "groove" a distance of 125 yards, But if I took the last 20 rounds how many times I hit my PW, and that a full shot, how "effective" I was hitting this 125 yard PW, the distance would probably be closer to 115 yards, REALISTICALLY.

 

We are infact discussing different things from the rest of the people in this thread!

 

So yes, Their average "STRIKING" distances (if they went to the range, went on an LM, had to PICK a base line number, It could be 270+ we agreed that is possible.

 

BUT what we are discussing, WHICH is different from them is their "EFFICIENT" Distance. Which is greatly different from their striking distance.

 

Thats it, nothing really more to say on this, Pine, I got you my friend, we are just discussing apples and oranges, and the more we do so the more ridiculous we LOOK in my honest opinion. Its a dead issue period....

 

Can they hit 270+ YES YES YES

 

if they took their data how effective they truly were, likely out of 10 shots collected over a bunch of rounds, it would likely not be better than a tour pro, BUT it could be further in distances, just not in efficiency!

 

No, that isn't the point. The point is that poor course management decisions (like trying to blast a 3 wood out of a fairway bunker with a lip you're about 70% sure you can clear) are WAY WAY more important to your average than your speed in a trackman bay. Its not "I hit 109 so I can hit it 270" its "I am a really smart golfer and that enables me to use my 109 swing to actually hit 270 yard 3 woods when I should". Stop talking about speed. That is my point. Off the ground, speed is like factor number four in average carry distance. Judging lies and deciding when and when not to go for it is way more important than speed.

 

And I don't think the posters in this thread are as mentally good as tour pros. I think they are probably just as good mechanically. But if they *actually measured* I think they are wasting their speed by making dumb decisions about when and what to hit. And I think that all these distance threads overlook the most important thing when we discuss off the deck - should you hit that shot at all?

 

People say "we shouldn't include mishits" like mishits are hail stones they can't control. If you have a 109 mph swing and you have a very strong mental game then you can probably do it. If you have a 109 mph swing and go out of your shoes all the time from nonsense lies your average likely stinks, and everywhere in between (tons of grey).

 

I think there are a TON of golfers here that would be indistinguishable from tour pros in a trackman bay. I've said like at least 25 times. I think 90% of those golfers stink at playing golf (but they are very very good at playing golf swing).

 

Follow the link earlier in the thread to the 2015 study about how most golfers of a certain ability level are identical mechanically but worlds apart in terms of what they think about during a round. Off the tee? its all about speed and mechanics. Off the deck into a green? Speed is number four, mayabe five, in your average.

[North Butte]

Are you talking one guy who for all I know may be some sort of completely off-the-charts prodigy? Or are you talking generically about any time someone makes that claim on this forum.

 

I can't say with certainty what some particular individual might be able to accomplish. I can only say that such a claim is so far beyond the reality of golf that I've experienced that I'd need more to convince me than just a claim on an anonymous internet forum.

 

Let's say someone comes on here and claims they shot 56 from the tournament tees at Oakmont last week. And let's say I ask "Were you playing it down and putting it out, strict rules of golf" to which is says yes he was. I'd be pretty confident in saying he did no such thing. Is it literally impossible? Maybe not. But it's just not the sort of claim one believes without some sort of evidence.

 

To my mind, carrying the ball 270 yards 10 times in a row off the turf is just about as likely shooting 56 at Oakmont. But I suspect what you're actually attempting to claim is something else entirely. If so then like so many before me I have sadly wasted my time and annoyed you to no good purpose for which I apologize.

 

Are you in fact claiming to have seen someone produce a 270-yard carry 10 times in a row hitting off turf?

 

Or are you claiming that someone has produced 10 swings in a row whose average clubhead speed would in theory equate to a 270-yard carry?

 

The latter claim is simply a matter of a guy who swings a fairway wood really, really fast and manages not to slam it into the ground while doing so. That is miles from being able to produce that actual shot result 10 times out of 10.

[Exactice808]

No, that isn't the point. The point is that poor course management decisions (like trying to blast a 3 wood out of a fairway bunker with a lip you're about 70% sure you can clear) are WAY WAY more important to your average than your speed in a trackman bay. Its not "I hit 109 so I can hit it 270" its "I am a really smart golfer and that enables me to use my 109 swing to actually hit 270 yard 3 woods when I should". Stop talking about speed. That is my point. Off the ground, speed is like factor number four in average carry distance. Judging lies and deciding when and when not to go for it is way more important than speed.

 

And I don't think the posters in this thread are as mentally good as tour pros. I think they are probably just as good mechanically. But if they *actually measured* I think they are wasting their speed by making dumb decisions about when and what to hit. And I think that all these distance threads overlook the most important thing when we discuss off the deck - should you hit that shot at all?

 

People say "we shouldn't include mishits" like mishits are hail stones they can't control. If you have a 109 mph swing and you have a very strong mental game then you can probably do it. If you have a 109 mph swing and go out of your shoes all the time from nonsense lies your average likely stinks, and everywhere in between (tons of grey).

 

I think there are a TON of golfers here that would be indistinguishable from tour pros in a trackman bay. I've said like at least 25 times. I think 90% of those golfers stink at playing golf (but they are very very good at playing golf swing).

 

Follow the link earlier in the thread to the 2015 study about how most golfers of a certain ability level are identical mechanically but worlds apart in terms of what they think about during a round. Off the tee? its all about speed and mechanics. Off the deck into a green? Speed is number four, mayabe five, in your average.

 

 

Um.... yes we are on the same page I hope you can see that,

 

Generally speaking, a normal golfer, falls into category 1 (Generically speaking)

 

#1 hits a bunch of shots with X club, geta an estimated distance and this is the distance to be played, 150 yards into a green hit an 8iron, 250 yards from the green on a Par 5. HIt a 3 wood. Basically stating and many people responding to this thread probably fall into this category (generically speaking) ...thats about it.

 

 

Then there are the, higher level of players, that take into account all facets of averages and calculations #2

 

#2 The statistician, that I play with, He knows that he hits his 3 wood 180 - 240, On a bad shot, it can be as short as much as 180 yards, on a perfect hit, he can hit it 240. If the Water is 200 yards carry, but 40 yards deep, meaning, 160-200 is the carry distance, if he misses at worse with a 180 3wood, he would likely hit water, So he will lay up to the 155 mark to play it safe as he is taking into his account for his potential miss.

 

the above player, I would say is less likely in this thread, BUT this type of player should be something WE all should be generally striving for, taking into account all shots and potentials, This will in fact assist us in making good choices on the course.

 

 

again though, Player #1 is likely in this thread and responding to the thread, with that, I hit my 3 wood 250 yards carry..... This is probably true, if the went on an LM, they could hit their 3wood 10 out of 10 250+ yards carry, straight and with similar launch characteristics? Less likely but still the numbers would say 250+ carry. So this is how they respond to this thread,

 

 

With that this same player takes it to the course and likely is NOT thinking how you and I are thinking about the law of averages and again, the potential 180 yard skunked 3wood, but only about the 250 yard carry. And will attempt, pretty much any 250 carry shot, with out regards to their miss. While I agree, THIS IS NOT the most efficient way to play, this is what they are basically saying and doing.

 

Period.....

[MtlJeff]

This is madness LOL. This thread is in the full blown Tyson zone

 

My average should be affected by shots I DONT hit??? That is absolutely priceless.

 

I'm a Friggin 1-index! I don't want to hit 3 wood off a downhill lie, or a lie in the rough, but I should factor those into my average 3 wood distance, under the context of lacking the skill to hit those shots?

 

I'm gonna need Good Will Hunting to figure out my average with each club. I've never calculated a probabalistic shot average of shots I might have hit

 

 

[Rosco1216]

So hypothetically, what if he had went through a trackman session to see carry distances and dial in all his yardages and his 4 wood average carry was 270 for 10 shots and all 10 were recorded(no removing any mishits or whatever)? Just genuinely interested what you would say about that circumstance.

 

Hitting off turf? Not a tee, not a mat?

 

I'd say anyone who averages 270 carry on shots hit from a tight, level fairway lie is probably in the top 0.00001% of golfers (literally one in a million) in terms of ability to hit fairway woods off the deck.

 

There are plenty of guys on the PGA Tour who can't average 270 carry with a 3-wood off the deck.

 

Yes, turf.

 

This is what I'm talking about. I posted the hypothetical about what if that was how someone got their average of 270, would that be sufficient for him to believe he averages 270 carry as his number before any other lie, wind or course variables?

 

Golfwrx is the the top 1% of most amateur golfers and stating there are plenty of guys on the PGA tour that can't average 270 off the deck with a 3 wood is not a relevant argument. There's plenty of guys on the PGA that can't fly a driver 270 either, so what. Distance threads on here have long been trolled by guys trying to discredit because of PGA statistics.

 

If he claims 10 shots out of 10 with CARRY distance of 270 off the deck then he is lying. Or at least exaggerating. Almost certainly.

 

I could talk about the top 1% of the few hundred golfers I've ever played with. Not a soul among them could sniff 270 (or 250) off the deck ten times out of ten. One time out of ten? Yeah, a few of them probably so. Five times out of ten? Not a chance. Ten shots in a row? It's laughable.

 

That's not trolling. I'm just describing the reality I've experienced over a few decades of playing 100+ times a year and the reality of the best players in the world. To my thinking, it'll take more than you saying "GolfWRX is the top 1% of golfers" to convince me there are hundreds, thousands, whatever or guys out there who hit fairway woods off the deck better than anyone I've ever seen.

No I said average 270 carry out of 10 shots without throwing any out. 10 out of 10 carry 270 would mean every single one over 270 which isn't an average.

 

See if you are saying he is lying and discrediting is purely off what you've seen and you think you know.

[slc247]

Maybe we should go back and read the thread title and the premise stated by the original post...Some people just read the premise and answer, and then guys jump on them about averages, lie and such. Its like reading something Bryson Dechambeau

would come up with.

The original post asked "how far". I really don't think the recreational golfer cares about what his average is in this case. Whats more important, to this premise, is how am I striking the ball today? When faced with a potential FW shot we go back to "how am I hitting this club lately". And yes, we tend to think more about the good shots. The last time I hit my 4 wood off the deck I had a perfect lie, maybe even fluffy, to a back pin and 234. I hit middle of the green and it rolled 12 ft past, so 237 total. Great shot for me.

So when asked how far will I go for, I'm going to say 220 carry, I'm not going to average in the 207 push I just hit two holes before. In fact I'll probably attempt a little more. I just carried it 220, I bet I have 225 in me. Do all of us actually go out and try to score the best we absolutely can, I know I don't. On a good driving day I'll get more aggressive, probably try to cut the corner on that par 5 I just cant seem to eagle.

[Exactice808]

This is madness LOL. This thread is in the full blown Tyson zone

 

My average should be affected by shots I DONT hit??? That is absolutely priceless.

 

I'm a Friggin 1-index! I don't want to hit 3 wood off a downhill lie, or a lie in the rough, but I should factor those into my average 3 wood distance, under the context of lacking the skill to hit those shots?

 

I'm gonna need Good Will Hunting to figure out my average with each club. I've never calculated a probabalistic shot average of shots I might have hit

 

LOL Jeff, I am sorry, I was representing something a little misguided, and now more so reflecting on it, its pretty crazy.... But again, This goes to how the 167.3 IQ player I play with thinks, Its over kill but that dude is a freaking genius,I think he would be one of those epic Poker players, calculating odds like crazy.

 

He knows my game better than I do, and when he watches me, he is shaking his head when I "pull" certain clubs knowing that the odds of me hitting the shot is less, Even though I am more than capable. I think this is why this thread has gone completely off the rails LOL!

 

 

and I say COMPLETELY, its done....... we really need to hit the reset button on this thread and clarify as really there are 2 totally majorly different discussion going on and blending them is like oil and water!

 

 

 

*edit* can just do a quick "Cool Story Brah"?

 

The 167.3 IQ guy, asked me if he could coach me around the course, and management my game for me. Would you believe that I shot a 77, because of him? He managed and advised me on every shot what to do and what not to do, Because he knows my game and abilities, but also knows my variables.

 

With that I need to change my cap but I am more like a 13 now, GHIN wise, and score wise probably a 15, With that, how could he mange a 87 shooter 10 strokes, to shoot a 77. Because he took into account all my stats, and managed my game to put me in the most advantageous positions for me specifically to shoot a low score.

 

 

Now I know you will ask the questions......Why dont I play like that all the time? because I dont pay green fees to lay up on a 220 yard Par 5 second shot, to hit GW, GW to get a birdie, Im going to try for that towering 3 wood, for an eagle chance........my ego doenst let me play my misses, Im going to try everything!

[Exactice808]

Maybe we should go back and read the thread title and the premise stated by the original post...Some people just read the premise and answer, and then guys jump on them about averages, lie and such. Its like reading something Bryson Dechambeau

would come up with.

The original post asked "how far". I really don't think the recreational golfer cares about what his average is in this case. Whats more important, to this premise, is how am I striking the ball today? When faced with a potential FW shot we go back to "how am I hitting this club lately". And yes, we tend to think more about the good shots. The last time I hit my 4 wood off the deck I had a perfect lie, maybe even fluffy, to a back pin and 234. I hit middle of the green and it rolled 12 ft past, so 237 total. Great shot for me.

So when asked how far will I go for, I'm going to say 220 carry, I'm not going to average in the 207 push I just hit two holes before. In fact I'll probably attempt a little more. I just carried it 220, I bet I have 225 in me. Do all of us actually go out and try to score the best we absolutely can, I know I don't. On a good driving day I'll get more aggressive, probably try to cut the corner on that par 5 I just cant seem to eagle.

 

100% agree, Can I apologize to you directly as I know we got into it directly, I am sorry... Yes reading just the simple title, you are right, Pine and I took it to a whole other level...and we are now in OZ dancing with the oompaloompas......

[slc247]

Maybe we should go back and read the thread title and the premise stated by the original post...Some people just read the premise and answer, and then guys jump on them about averages, lie and such. Its like reading something Bryson Dechambeau

would come up with.

The original post asked "how far". I really don't think the recreational golfer cares about what his average is in this case. Whats more important, to this premise, is how am I striking the ball today? When faced with a potential FW shot we go back to "how am I hitting this club lately". And yes, we tend to think more about the good shots. The last time I hit my 4 wood off the deck I had a perfect lie, maybe even fluffy, to a back pin and 234. I hit middle of the green and it rolled 12 ft past, so 237 total. Great shot for me.

So when asked how far will I go for, I'm going to say 220 carry, I'm not going to average in the 207 push I just hit two holes before. In fact I'll probably attempt a little more. I just carried it 220, I bet I have 225 in me. Do all of us actually go out and try to score the best we absolutely can, I know I don't. On a good driving day I'll get more aggressive, probably try to cut the corner on that par 5 I just cant seem to eagle.

 

100% agree, Can I apologize to you directly as I know we got into it directly, I am sorry... Yes reading just the simple title, you are right, Pine and I took it to a whole other level...and we are now in OZ dancing with the oompaloompas......

Oh dont apologize to me...Im probably just going to go to your other thread and post something anyways....

jk...

[Exactice808]

Maybe we should go back and read the thread title and the premise stated by the original post...Some people just read the premise and answer, and then guys jump on them about averages, lie and such. Its like reading something Bryson Dechambeau

would come up with.

The original post asked "how far". I really don't think the recreational golfer cares about what his average is in this case. Whats more important, to this premise, is how am I striking the ball today? When faced with a potential FW shot we go back to "how am I hitting this club lately". And yes, we tend to think more about the good shots. The last time I hit my 4 wood off the deck I had a perfect lie, maybe even fluffy, to a back pin and 234. I hit middle of the green and it rolled 12 ft past, so 237 total. Great shot for me.

So when asked how far will I go for, I'm going to say 220 carry, I'm not going to average in the 207 push I just hit two holes before. In fact I'll probably attempt a little more. I just carried it 220, I bet I have 225 in me. Do all of us actually go out and try to score the best we absolutely can, I know I don't. On a good driving day I'll get more aggressive, probably try to cut the corner on that par 5 I just cant seem to eagle.

 

100% agree, Can I apologize to you directly as I know we got into it directly, I am sorry... Yes reading just the simple title, you are right, Pine and I took it to a whole other level...and we are now in OZ dancing with the oompaloompas......

Oh dont apologize to me...Im probably just going to go to your other thread and post something anyways....

jk...

 

I probably deserve it so feel free at least that thread can be derailed and I wont feel guilty! Cheers my friend and again sorry about being a "jerk" truly!