3w distance off the fairway

[Exactice808]

Ballpark GPS using a tree a ball landed near to calculate anything is not an acceptable application. Forced 260 carry, damn right I'm hitting the club I carry over 275-280. Every time.

 

Yeah OK, *you* might. I don't believe 9 out of the first 14 responders would. I don't know why this is hard to understand. I'm not attacking you specifically. I've said over and over that I believe probably 15-20% of the people in this thread are telling the truth and the rest are lying to themselves. There is no way in the world that 75% of the first 18 responses in a golf wrx thread compress a 3 wood off the deck better than a touring professional. Zero chance.

 

I'm not attacking you. I don't know who is lying and who isn't, but I know most are. They arn't doing it on purpose, they just hit a long tee ball and think off the deck is the same thing. It isn't.

 

I don't believe you are attacking me at all and I hope you don't think I'm attacking you either. It's just a difference of philosophy and approach. A lot of guys may not know how far they hit their clubs. But if guys have done true fittings on trackman, off grass, I believe they have their average carry distance to apply on the course. I mean the pros have trackman at the range before all their rounds dialing in their yardages to apply on the course.

 

Great point..... this I wonder, lets use a PGA tour pro that is hitting off trackman, they have a 13.5* or a 15* lofted 3 wood, and to be totally honest, if they were to hit 100 shots, the thought would not cross my mind that these guys ACTUALLY carry a 3wood 270+ easy......

 

With that saying, I dont recall many PGA tour players going for par 5s in 2 with 250+ carry, even if they are hitting 270+ carry easy all day everyday on a trackman.

 

This again though are 2 totally different discussion that Pine is talking about and many of the poster here, so sorry its not really relevant, but I see where both you guys are coming from.

 

 

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

 

Another interesting thing about "accuracy"

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.486.2016.html

 

going for green %

 

#1 - 40.91 %

Last -9.7% Poor VJ stinks in going for it in 2...... he needs to lay up or really learn his distances LOL!!!!!

[Rosco1216]

And I commented on this thread for a few pages simply debating the way pinestreet applies averages, course management and what not, affected averages. Not talking about how far I hit any of my clubs.

[Rosco1216]

Ballpark GPS using a tree a ball landed near to calculate anything is not an acceptable application. Forced 260 carry, damn right I'm hitting the club I carry over 275-280. Every time.

 

Yeah OK, *you* might. I don't believe 9 out of the first 14 responders would. I don't know why this is hard to understand. I'm not attacking you specifically. I've said over and over that I believe probably 15-20% of the people in this thread are telling the truth and the rest are lying to themselves. There is no way in the world that 75% of the first 18 responses in a golf wrx thread compress a 3 wood off the deck better than a touring professional. Zero chance.

 

I'm not attacking you. I don't know who is lying and who isn't, but I know most are. They arn't doing it on purpose, they just hit a long tee ball and think off the deck is the same thing. It isn't.

 

I don't believe you are attacking me at all and I hope you don't think I'm attacking you either. It's just a difference of philosophy and approach. A lot of guys may not know how far they hit their clubs. But if guys have done true fittings on trackman, off grass, I believe they have their average carry distance to apply on the course. I mean the pros have trackman at the range before all their rounds dialing in their yardages to apply on the course.

 

Great point..... this I wonder, lets use a PGA tour pro that is hitting off trackman, they have a 13.5* or a 15* lofted 3 wood, and to be totally honest, if they were to hit 100 shots, the thought would not cross my mind that these guys ACTUALLY carry a 3wood 270+ easy......

 

With that saying, I dont recall many PGA tour players going for par 5s in 2 with 250+ carry, even if they are hitting 270+ carry easy all day everyday on a trackman.

 

This again though are 2 totally different discussion that Pine is talking about and many of the poster here, so sorry its not really relevant, but I see where both you guys are coming from.

 

 

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

 

Another interesting thing about "accuracy"

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.486.2016.html

 

going for green %

 

#1 - 40.91 %

Last -9.7% Poor VJ stinks in going for it in 2...... he needs to lay up or really learn his distances LOL!!!!!

 

Not surprising when you think about it really. Longer guys on tour that can hit it that far never are faced with an approach from that far and the guys that are faced with shots that long don't have the length to get there. So not surprising at all that DJ being the longer guy has shorter yardage average when going for it. He never has that long to reach 99% or the par 5's.

[mn44]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

[Exactice808]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances..............

 

Yups, its amazing, 2-3 clubs difference..... you think that these guys are at the top of the game but 30 yards still differs that to me would seem pretty significant, thats like a PW vs 9 or 8 iron approach. Would surely like a PW vs an 8iron LOL.

 

also with DJ's length hes ranked 4th @ 32.12% in accuracy. 4th in accuracy overall, amazing!

 

 

With that Poor VJ 9% going for it. LOL.....from the sound of it half the guys in this thread would have better stats than him HAHAHAH!!!!

[mn44]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances..............

 

Yups, its amazing, 2-3 clubs difference..... you think that these guys are at the top of the game but 30 yards still differs that to me would seem pretty significant, thats like a PW vs 9 or 8 iron approach. Would surely like a PW vs an 8iron LOL.

 

 

With that Poor VJ 9% going for it. LOL.....from the sound of it half the guys in this thread would have better stats than him HAHAHAH!!!!

 

Probably helps explain him carrying a 2 and 3 iron over a 5 wood. Makes sense if thats all he needs.

[Exactice808]

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

Sorry, I cheated, I was actually using the 2016 stats page, he averages about 280.8 based on 2016 total driving numbers

http://www.pgatour.c...at.101.2016.htm

 

 

so thats 40 yards gap..... pretty large between driver an potential 3 wood.

[Exactice808]

Probably helps explain him carrying a 2 and 3 iron over a 5 wood. Makes sense if thats all he needs.

 

Im trying to reach 250 yard Par 4s in 2, He carriers them with a 3 or 4 iron..........And still probably more accurately/proximity wise then I do in 2 shots LOL!

[SurfDuffer]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances..............

 

Yups, its amazing, 2-3 clubs difference..... you think that these guys are at the top of the game but 30 yards still differs that to me would seem pretty significant, thats like a PW vs 9 or 8 iron approach. Would surely like a PW vs an 8iron LOL.

 

also with DJ's length hes ranked 4th @ 32.12% in accuracy. 4th in accuracy overall, amazing!

 

 

With that Poor VJ 9% going for it. LOL.....from the sound of it half the guys in this thread would have better stats than him HAHAHAH!!!!

 

When going for par 5s in two its amazing the difference just a few yards off the tee makes. I'd much rather have an iron in approach than a 3-wood any day. Ten paces makes all the difference in the world.

[royourboat]

10 x 3w's = 253y carry average

 

I hit 6 x 6i's and then 10 x 3w's from a cold start. 3 of the 3w's were dud's, so the average came down hard. The majority are 160+ ball speeds.

 

Put me down in the non-lying category please.

[pinestreetgolf]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

No, I agree with your entire argument except its conclusion. I don't think 9 out of the first 14 responders in this thread strike the ball off the ground as well as Furyk. I believe moving it from the tee to the ground makes it a much harder shot than others in this thread are giving it credit for.

 

Off the tee speed is king. Off the deck strike is king. We are talking only about distance here. People don't hit tee shots fat and thin. Furyk loses a lot less moving from a tee to the earth than a 5 cap.

 

If Furyk loses 20-ish yards, and equivilent am will lose 40. Thats how much harder it is to repeat a swing off the deck versus tee. Furyk (As everyone knows) has one of the most repeatable swings in the world. To say an Am would equal him in translation from tee to deck is ridiculous. That's the point. A 5 cap that can bomb it off the tee probably has a really good maxed out 3 wood, but I doubt significantly he can strike it as well as Furyk on average.

 

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

You've made a fantastic argument here, right up until the conclusion that Furyk and the 5 cap would both lose the same amount of yards moving from the tee to the ground. That's absurd.

[SurfDuffer]

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

 

A strike is a strike. I wouldn't expect a decent player to lose any less distance than Furyk. The difference here isn't distance. Its accuracy, consistency and ability under pressure.

 

I'm capable of hitting a 3 wood as far or farther than some of the players on tour. Doesn't make me a better golfer though. Sad truth is there is a 50/50 shot I hit a big push off line. Ball still goes 250+.

[pinestreetgolf]

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

 

A strike is a strike. I wouldn't expect a decent player to lose any less distance than Furyk. The difference here isn't distance. Its accuracy, consistency and ability under pressure.

 

I'm capable of hitting a 3 wood as far or farther than some of the players on tour. Doesn't make me a better golfer though. Sad truth is there is a 50/50 shot I hit a big push off line. Ball still goes 250+.

 

1. Consistency is part of "average".

 

2. See my 10,000 messages above that I agree some Of you can do it. Just not 80%.

 

3. If you honestly believe you strike it as well as furyk and the only difference between you and him is dispersion and handling pressure I have some ocean front property in Kansas to sell you. The dude has won the tour championship and the us open. You don't strike the ball anything at all like he does.

[SurfDuffer]

Thought about it, I have no idea how far I hit a 3W off the deck. I never need to hit that shot.

 

At nearly 60 years old, I've only been on a launch monitor three times. Once at Pine Valley, once with Jim Mclean and once at a golf shop. I've been to the Nationals in the Long Driving Championship.

 

Short answer would be a lot shorter than in my late 40's and early 50's. I'd post the driver and 3W swing speeds from those days but the dicks here would harass me and call me a liar.

 

I like people who don't read the entire thread and jump right to the end.

 

"The dicks" issue isn't with your swing speed. We've gone over this ten times. I don't doubt people can mash it off a tee, where its all about speed. Off the deck, especially on average, is about WAY more than speed. That's why its so much harder. That's why,in this particular thread, I'm calling BS and not doing it in driver threads (or 3w off a tee threads). Off a tee and off the ground are worlds apart in terms of skill required to translate speed to distance.

 

I even give most people the benefit of the doubt. But 279 average *carry* with a 16.5* club? Some of these posts are from another planet.

 

Off a tee I'll hit a 3-wood 265 give or take depending on the wind. Off the turf there is no telling since its rare for me to hit a quality shot with a 3-wood off the turf. Its a mystery to me. Its a love hate thing.

 

My most recent 3-wood attempt off the turf was Sunday. After a perfect tee shot on a par 5 I was left with 250 to the pin of a very slight side hill lie. It was a little too far for my 2 or 3-iron and I was in such a good position that I'd have felt like a sissy not to at least try to put it on the green. Hit the 3-wood and the push I hit went wide right leaving me right of the bunker right of the green and almost OB......a little farther than pin high and short sided with the entire green going down hill. Doomed I made double from there. Delicate flop shot that went into the bunker.......followed by short sided bunker shot to a green sloping away. Chip on. 2-putt.

 

Should have layed up.

 

 

Is that google earth? How did you know where to start the line and where to stop it? Did you have it with you on the course? I only ask because its really clean and nice looking. if its a golf program, what program is it? I want to steal it.

 

It seems like the mistake would be attempting the flop. You can't afford to hit that short, ever. You should have had a 10 foot birdie putt, thats a big green. Aim to the front left and hit a simple spinny pitch. 3 wood was the correct play, trying to flop it near the pin and having that bunker in play was insanity. I've never played the hole (obviously) but trying to flop it over what looks to be a deep bunker that you simply cannot afford to be short into was ridiculous. Great wood shot, just take your 15 feet back up the hill for biride. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Google Earth. I know where to start and stop the lines because I've played the hole a few hundred times. If I'm off by 2 yards I'd be surprised. Also lasered it when I hit the shot and pretty spot on. What you don't see on google earth is the the green slopes to the center from both sides and dumps to the front. The pin was about 5 paces on.....on the front right side of the green. If the pin had been where the people on the green are it would have been fairly easy to make par. Being short sided the flop shot over the bunker was the only hope of landing it close and holding the green. The mistake was coming up 2 feet short. A pitch towards the flag from where I was would never have held the green. I would have had to pitch away from the flag and then have a horrendous putt back. I was pretty much doomed when I missed that far right.

 

Did it again yesterday. :censored2: I don't know if its the lie or what but from this spot I seem to hit a well struck push way off line. Was aiming at the left side of the green. Ball position from in the fairway is about 2 inches above my feet. Turned pin high in two into a double bogy. Only went for it this time to see if I could get a different result after hitting almost the identical tee shot as my previous round. Someday I need to figure this one out.

[pinestreetgolf]

Thought about it, I have no idea how far I hit a 3W off the deck. I never need to hit that shot.

 

At nearly 60 years old, I've only been on a launch monitor three times. Once at Pine Valley, once with Jim Mclean and once at a golf shop. I've been to the Nationals in the Long Driving Championship.

 

Short answer would be a lot shorter than in my late 40's and early 50's. I'd post the driver and 3W swing speeds from those days but the dicks here would harass me and call me a liar.

 

I like people who don't read the entire thread and jump right to the end.

 

"The dicks" issue isn't with your swing speed. We've gone over this ten times. I don't doubt people can mash it off a tee, where its all about speed. Off the deck, especially on average, is about WAY more than speed. That's why its so much harder. That's why,in this particular thread, I'm calling BS and not doing it in driver threads (or 3w off a tee threads). Off a tee and off the ground are worlds apart in terms of skill required to translate speed to distance.

 

I even give most people the benefit of the doubt. But 279 average *carry* with a 16.5* club? Some of these posts are from another planet.

 

Off a tee I'll hit a 3-wood 265 give or take depending on the wind. Off the turf there is no telling since its rare for me to hit a quality shot with a 3-wood off the turf. Its a mystery to me. Its a love hate thing.

 

My most recent 3-wood attempt off the turf was Sunday. After a perfect tee shot on a par 5 I was left with 250 to the pin of a very slight side hill lie. It was a little too far for my 2 or 3-iron and I was in such a good position that I'd have felt like a sissy not to at least try to put it on the green. Hit the 3-wood and the push I hit went wide right leaving me right of the bunker right of the green and almost OB......a little farther than pin high and short sided with the entire green going down hill. Doomed I made double from there. Delicate flop shot that went into the bunker.......followed by short sided bunker shot to a green sloping away. Chip on. 2-putt.

 

Should have layed up.

 

 

Is that google earth? How did you know where to start the line and where to stop it? Did you have it with you on the course? I only ask because its really clean and nice looking. if its a golf program, what program is it? I want to steal it.

 

It seems like the mistake would be attempting the flop. You can't afford to hit that short, ever. You should have had a 10 foot birdie putt, thats a big green. Aim to the front left and hit a simple spinny pitch. 3 wood was the correct play, trying to flop it near the pin and having that bunker in play was insanity. I've never played the hole (obviously) but trying to flop it over what looks to be a deep bunker that you simply cannot afford to be short into was ridiculous. Great wood shot, just take your 15 feet back up the hill for biride. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Google Earth. I know where to start and stop the lines because I've played the hole a few hundred times. If I'm off by 2 yards I'd be surprised. Also lasered it when I hit the shot and pretty spot on. What you don't see on google earth is the the green slopes to the center from both sides and dumps to the front. The pin was about 5 paces on.....on the front right side of the green. If the pin had been where the people on the green are it would have been fairly easy to make par. Being short sided the flop shot over the bunker was the only hope of landing it close and holding the green. The mistake was coming up 2 feet short. A pitch towards the flag from where I was would never have held the green. I would have had to pitch away from the flag and then have a horrendous putt back. I was pretty much doomed when I missed that far right.

 

Did it again yesterday. :censored2: I don't know if its the lie or what but from this spot I seem to hit a well struck push way off line. Was aiming at the left side of the green. Ball position from in the fairway is about 2 inches above my feet. Turned pin high in two into a double bogy. Only went for it this time to see if I could get a different result after hitting almost the identical tee shot as my previous round. Someday I need to figure this one out.

 

I've never seen you hit a ball before, so grain of salt. But typically a push off the deck with a wood (or long iron) is due to the right shoulder dropping on the downswing (it opens the face, try it in the air). Given all the trouble short, its possible you are short-arming it with the right side to try to get it airborne. Since you are still turning at the same speed you won't lose distance but you won't release. A sign this is going on is that in your finish the shaft is more vertical than usual. One of my favorite swing thoughts with a wood off the deck is to swing like a baseball bat over the top of it as a warmup swing and then just drop that feeling to the ground (you won't actually do it, but it will keep your right shoulder from bailing out low). You don't want to feel like your right side is "swimming" underneath your left. you want to feel that you are simply turning at the same altitude and your right elbow is opening to get the club to the ball. This is an exaggeration to feel the correct move.

 

Feel free to ignore all of this advice as its worth the price you paid for it, most likely, having never seen you swing.

 

I would be willing to bet if there wasn't a penalty for missing short (you need all carry here) this wouldn't happen. Typically that right shoulder falling through impact scoop move to hep the ball in the air pushes a big club right (and pulls a short club left).

 

Just a thought. That said, according to this thread, what you are looking at near your target while on the course doesn't effect your shot, so who knows. :) I don't know why you bother looking at what you actually do on the course. Just paste your launch monitor statistics over google earth. Its basically the same thing, and it'll save you four hours every Saturday. *eye roll*

[SurfDuffer]

Not a slice. A dead strait push.

[pinestreetgolf]

Not a slice. A dead strait push.

 

Right. A "dead straight" push is cause by a clubface that is square to an in-to-out swing path (clubface is open to the target line, but square to the clubpath). If you drop your right shoulder through the ball but keep everything else the same as a normal shot your face will follow your slight in-to-out swing path causing a push. People used to think an open face caused a slice but since the advent of trackman we know that the face has to open *to the path* to cause a push slice. The only way to generate a "dead straight push" is to swing in to out with the clubface square to the swing path, but open to the target line.

 

99% of the time this is caused by the right shoulder dropping through impact opening the face to the target but squaring it to the path. Try it in the air.

 

i.e.

 

 

 

 

[mn44]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

No, I agree with your entire argument except its conclusion. I don't think 9 out of the first 14 responders in this thread strike the ball off the ground as well as Furyk. I believe moving it from the tee to the ground makes it a much harder shot than others in this thread are giving it credit for.

 

Off the tee speed is king. Off the deck strike is king. We are talking only about distance here. People don't hit tee shots fat and thin. Furyk loses a lot less moving from a tee to the earth than a 5 cap.

 

If Furyk loses 20-ish yards, and equivilent am will lose 40. Thats how much harder it is to repeat a swing off the deck versus tee. Furyk (As everyone knows) has one of the most repeatable swings in the world. To say an Am would equal him in translation from tee to deck is ridiculous. That's the point. A 5 cap that can bomb it off the tee probably has a really good maxed out 3 wood, but I doubt significantly he can strike it as well as Furyk on average.

 

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

You've made a fantastic argument here, right up until the conclusion that Furyk and the 5 cap would both lose the same amount of yards moving from the tee to the ground. That's absurd.

 

I'm sorry, but your logic just doesn't add up. Your argument is assuming that 1) no amateur can hit it as clean as furyk (debateable) and 2) no amateur can drive it further than Furyk. Obviously, thousands of amateurs drive it further than Furyk (265) every day. Even if we throw out the clean strike argument (which again I disagree with, but it is completely irrelevant here, so lets focus only on distance), your position doesn't add up. I could name 40 guys at my club that average > 265 off the tee, and a good # of them can pump it past 290. So even if we go with your claim that amateurs lose 40 yards off the tee vs fairway (which again, isn't true, because I know I don't), a 250 fairway 3 wood is still perfectly plausible.

 

I'm sorry but regardless of how you slice it, your argument just doesn't add up. Bottom line is a 250 3 wood is nothing special nor terribly unique.

[mattd1206]

225 on a good ball

[cmatthews77]

Realistic carry number for my bag backwards:

58- 90

54- 105

50- 115

PW- 125

9i - 135

8i - 145

7i- 155

6i- 165

5i- 175

4hy- 185

3hy- 200

3wood (16 degrees) : 225 deck 235-240 tee

Driver: 240-250 carry

[Exactice808]

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

Sorry, I cheated, I was actually using the 2016 stats page, he averages about 280.8 based on 2016 total driving numbers

http://www.pgatour.c...at.101.2016.htm

 

 

so thats 40 yards gap..... pretty large between driver an potential 3 wood.

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

No, I agree with your entire argument except its conclusion. I don't think 9 out of the first 14 responders in this thread strike the ball off the ground as well as Furyk. I believe moving it from the tee to the ground makes it a much harder shot than others in this thread are giving it credit for.

 

Off the tee speed is king. Off the deck strike is king. We are talking only about distance here. People don't hit tee shots fat and thin. Furyk loses a lot less moving from a tee to the earth than a 5 cap.

 

If Furyk loses 20-ish yards, and equivilent am will lose 40. Thats how much harder it is to repeat a swing off the deck versus tee. Furyk (As everyone knows) has one of the most repeatable swings in the world. To say an Am would equal him in translation from tee to deck is ridiculous. That's the point. A 5 cap that can bomb it off the tee probably has a really good maxed out 3 wood, but I doubt significantly he can strike it as well as Furyk on average.

 

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

You've made a fantastic argument here, right up until the conclusion that Furyk and the 5 cap would both lose the same amount of yards moving from the tee to the ground. That's absurd.

 

I'm sorry, but your logic just doesn't add up. Your argument is assuming that 1) no amateur can hit it as clean as furyk (debateable) and 2) no amateur can drive it further than Furyk. Obviously, thousands of amateurs drive it further than Furyk (265) every day. Even if we throw out the clean strike argument (which again I disagree with, but it is completely irrelevant here, so lets focus only on distance), your position doesn't add up. I could name 40 guys at my club that average > 265 off the tee, and a good # of them can pump it past 290. So even if we go with your claim that amateurs lose 40 yards off the tee vs fairway (which again, isn't true, because I know I don't), a 250 fairway 3 wood is still perfectly plausible.

 

I'm sorry but regardless of how you slice it, your argument just doesn't add up. Bottom line is a 250 3 wood is nothing special nor terribly unique.

 

 

Again to be clear, 2016 total stats shows 38.8 yards Gap not 20 yards Gap (cumulative 2016 total driving shows 280.8), the 265 is his current 2017 total driving, the stats I pulled for his approach of 242 was cumulative of 2016. so stat for stat again its 40 yards between the 2 clubs.

[pinestreetgolf]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

No, I agree with your entire argument except its conclusion. I don't think 9 out of the first 14 responders in this thread strike the ball off the ground as well as Furyk. I believe moving it from the tee to the ground makes it a much harder shot than others in this thread are giving it credit for.

 

Off the tee speed is king. Off the deck strike is king. We are talking only about distance here. People don't hit tee shots fat and thin. Furyk loses a lot less moving from a tee to the earth than a 5 cap.

 

If Furyk loses 20-ish yards, and equivilent am will lose 40. Thats how much harder it is to repeat a swing off the deck versus tee. Furyk (As everyone knows) has one of the most repeatable swings in the world. To say an Am would equal him in translation from tee to deck is ridiculous. That's the point. A 5 cap that can bomb it off the tee probably has a really good maxed out 3 wood, but I doubt significantly he can strike it as well as Furyk on average.

 

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

You've made a fantastic argument here, right up until the conclusion that Furyk and the 5 cap would both lose the same amount of yards moving from the tee to the ground. That's absurd.

 

I'm sorry, but your logic just doesn't add up. Your argument is assuming that 1) no amateur can hit it as clean as furyk (debateable) and 2) no amateur can drive it further than Furyk. Obviously, thousands of amateurs drive it further than Furyk (265) every day. Even if we throw out the clean strike argument (which again I disagree with, but it is completely irrelevant here, so lets focus only on distance), your position doesn't add up. I could name 40 guys at my club that average > 265 off the tee, and a good # of them can pump it past 290. So even if we go with your claim that amateurs lose 40 yards off the tee vs fairway (which again, isn't true, because I know I don't), a 250 fairway 3 wood is still perfectly plausible.

 

I'm sorry but regardless of how you slice it, your argument just doesn't add up. Bottom line is a 250 3 wood is nothing special nor terribly unique.

 

Repeated for literally the 19th time.

 

I. am. not. saying. no. amateur.can.be.this.good.

 

Let me say that again in all caps.

 

I AM NOT SAYING NO AMATEUR. CAN BE THIS GOOD.

 

I am saying not 75% of the first 18 responses in a Golf WRX thread. That isn't a single amateur. i have said over and over that elite amateurs and pros are relatively the same. I don't believe the first 18 responders in this thread are elite ams.

 

This is this conversation:

 

Me: "I don't think 75% of Golf WRX respondants can hit 3 wood off the deck better than a tour pro."

Other People: "Yeah, but some ams can."

Me: "OK, probably, just not 75% in this thread I bet"

You: "YOU SAID NOT A SINGLE AMATEUR CAN HIT IT LIKE FURYK AND THAT DOESN'T HOLD UP"

ME: ?

 

Dude, obviously I'm not arguing that no am can hit it like Furyk. That would be stupid. I'm arguing 75% of posters in this thread can't. The +2, maybe. Nobody worse than scratch can hit it like he can. I don't think 250 is crazy (I said that on pages 11 and 13). I still really doubt 9 of the first 14 are reaching 250 carry, but *maybe* that is plausible. But its not just 250 and you know it. Dude, theres a guy in here claiming 280 carry average with 16.5*. There's a 12 cap claiming 260 carry 270 total per another poster. There were two pages of nobody under 260. Give me a break. No chance. Not because "no am can do it" but because people experience massive degradation from the tee to the ground and suffer memory decay, which is especially bad when applied to golf.

 

Is it possible that there happen to be this many posting in this cluster of elite ballstrikiing ams that the average would be orders of magnitude higher than mid-cap average and nearly every single poster eclipse a tour pro? Yes, its possible. Its incredibly improbable.

[RCorsa]

Real course data via gps. Hole was fairly flat. New epic 3w turned down to 14 with tensei pro white D3 at 42.75. Bad chip so had to get up and down but this 3w is a monster.

[mahonie]

Real course data via gps. Hole was fairly flat. New epic 3w turned down to 14 with tensei pro white D3 at 42.75. Bad chip so had to get up and down but this 3w is a monster.

 

RC, looks like you bailed to the right to avoid the water ;-)

[slc247]

Real course data via gps. Hole was fairly flat. New epic 3w turned down to 14 with tensei pro white D3 at 42.75. Bad chip so had to get up and down but this 3w is a monster.

To get a true average you have to throw out the high and low, the outliers, so that shot really didn't happen.

 

Oh but the bad chip counts...

[Tcann32]

Only getting 230 off deck for me!

 

BE A MAN

 

;)

[Tcann32]

last useless point that I thought was kind of interesting,

 

http://www.pgatour.c...02426.2016.html

 

average going for it, Interesting to see, DJ the longer guy, his average going for it it 236 yards

 

the other end of the spectrum Jeff Overton 264.4 average. I think this is total distance as well and not carry.

 

 

DJ drives the ball further off the tee, therefore his approach shots are going to be from shorter distances...

 

The more interesting stat is looking at someone like Jim Furyk - average drive is 265 (http://www.pgatour.c...s/stat.101.html), but his 'going for' it average distance is 242. i.e. There is only a ~20 yard gap between his tee ball and fairway approach shot. Pretty much kills the whole argument about people not hitting 3 woods 250 yards....unless you guys don't believe that people can drive it 270+.

 

No, I agree with your entire argument except its conclusion. I don't think 9 out of the first 14 responders in this thread strike the ball off the ground as well as Furyk. I believe moving it from the tee to the ground makes it a much harder shot than others in this thread are giving it credit for.

 

Off the tee speed is king. Off the deck strike is king. We are talking only about distance here. People don't hit tee shots fat and thin. Furyk loses a lot less moving from a tee to the earth than a 5 cap.

 

If Furyk loses 20-ish yards, and equivilent am will lose 40. Thats how much harder it is to repeat a swing off the deck versus tee. Furyk (As everyone knows) has one of the most repeatable swings in the world. To say an Am would equal him in translation from tee to deck is ridiculous. That's the point. A 5 cap that can bomb it off the tee probably has a really good maxed out 3 wood, but I doubt significantly he can strike it as well as Furyk on average.

 

So, using YOUR OWN argument, if Furyk drives it 265 off a perfect lie and loses 21 yards to the ground, do you SERIOUSLY think a 5 cap is losing exactly the same amount of distance as Furyk moving from the tee to the ground? That's insane. They'd lose much more. Their strike is garbage compared to Furyk and even HE loses 20 yards.

 

You've made a fantastic argument here, right up until the conclusion that Furyk and the 5 cap would both lose the same amount of yards moving from the tee to the ground. That's absurd.

 

I'm sorry, but your logic just doesn't add up. Your argument is assuming that 1) no amateur can hit it as clean as furyk (debateable) and 2) no amateur can drive it further than Furyk. Obviously, thousands of amateurs drive it further than Furyk (265) every day. Even if we throw out the clean strike argument (which again I disagree with, but it is completely irrelevant here, so lets focus only on distance), your position doesn't add up. I could name 40 guys at my club that average > 265 off the tee, and a good # of them can pump it past 290. So even if we go with your claim that amateurs lose 40 yards off the tee vs fairway (which again, isn't true, because I know I don't), a 250 fairway 3 wood is still perfectly plausible.

 

I'm sorry but regardless of how you slice it, your argument just doesn't add up. Bottom line is a 250 3 wood is nothing special nor terribly unique.

 

Repeated for literally the 19th time.

 

I. am. not. saying. no. amateur.can.be.this.good.

 

Let me say that again in all caps.

 

I AM NOT SAYING NO AMATEUR. CAN BE THIS GOOD.

 

I am saying not 75% of the first 18 responses in a Golf WRX thread. That isn't a single amateur. i have said over and over that elite amateurs and pros are relatively the same. I don't believe the first 18 responders in this thread are elite ams.

 

This is this conversation:

 

Me: "I don't think 75% of Golf WRX respondants can hit 3 wood off the deck better than a tour pro."

Other People: "Yeah, but some ams can."

Me: "OK, probably, just not 75% in this thread I bet"

You: "YOU SAID NOT A SINGLE AMATEUR CAN HIT IT LIKE FURYK AND THAT DOESN'T HOLD UP"

ME: ?

 

Dude, obviously I'm not arguing that no am can hit it like Furyk. That would be stupid. I'm arguing 75% of posters in this thread can't. The +2, maybe. Nobody worse than scratch can hit it like he can. I don't think 250 is crazy (I said that on pages 11 and 13). I still really doubt 9 of the first 14 are reaching 250 carry, but *maybe* that is plausible. But its not just 250 and you know it. Dude, theres a guy in here claiming 280 carry average with 16.5*. There's a 12 cap claiming 260 carry 270 total per another poster. There were two pages of nobody under 260. Give me a break. No chance. Not because "no am can do it" but because people experience massive degradation from the tee to the ground and suffer memory decay, which is especially bad when applied to golf.

 

Is it possible that there happen to be this many posting in this cluster of elite ballstrikiing ams that the average would be orders of magnitude higher than mid-cap average and nearly every single poster eclipse a tour pro? Yes, its possible. Its incredibly improbable.

 

I agree with Pine here. I've read enough to see that he isn't claiming it's impossible for it to happen, but that its very unlikely that many amateurs in this thread are able to hit their 3w better than a tour pro in terms of average consistency. I agree with that.

 

I know for a fact that on the course, I am capable of pulling it off, but it would be an above average shot for an on-course shot to carry it 250 off the deck. I've done it plenty, but I wouldn't give myself the benefit of the doubt to carry it that far. 250 total? Yeah, we are getting closer to something I am more capable of hitting consistently, and I'll argue it all day, but I'll man up and say that I don't hit it 250 carry on average. Swing speed won't vary that much, and I'm at 105, up to 110 off the deck. 105 is an agressive swing, but not out of my shoes, but it still takes really good contact along with really good angles to make that kind of carry happen. I play my 3w @ 16.5 fwiw.

 

On the flip side, there's plenty of amateurs out there who swing realllly fast. Fast enough to come close to those distances on mediocre hit even.

 

I think the portion that's tough here is that accuracy hasn't been put into the equation yet. Pro's are hitting it this distance, on average, reasonably accurately as well. I'm guessing most could really swing a good deal faster, if they wanted to, too.

[mahonie]

This article makes interesting reading, although I'm not sure what benefit all this data collecting actually has for the average club golfer. I'm sure we all see lots of outliers that would seem to disprove the figures:

 

http://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/features/the-game/how-far-do-average-golfers-actually-hit-it-123891

[Exactice808]

This article makes interesting reading, although I'm not sure what benefit all this data collecting actually has for the average club golfer. I'm sure we all see lots of outliers that would seem to disprove the figures:

 

http://www.golf-mont...y-hit-it-123891

 

Mahonie, Speaking of wild watched this last night..

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

fast forward to 0:22

 

318 Carry

363 total

 

45 Yards of roll WTF!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

ahahahahaha I love distance claims....

 

 

 

 

with that...... Realistically speaking average 100% of all players.... Those look legit as can be....

 

The outlier/hard part is being on GolfWRX I would agree we are within the top 20 percentile of players on average..... So having to take that average, I would say puts us in a much higher bracket then those numbers BUT I still doubt GolfWRX as a majority exceeds a PGA Tour Pro stat........thats just unrealistic......

[robyers]

Im at 260-270 comfortably off the deck. 280+ if I really want to nut up on one. This summer off the tee I was between 280-300. I have no idea what the heck happened but holy lord did my 3 wood start going crazy. I think part of it was I had 2/3 rounds where I hit a few in close with it on par 5's. COnfidence skyrocketed and next thing I know, I was swinging free and it was going exactly where I wanted. This year I will probably be down to 250 and can't keep it on the course.