Golf Course Superintendent Ready to Answer Any Questions You May Have

[BNGL]

Good Afternoon GolfWRX,

 

As the title says hit me up with any questions that you may have in relation to golf course agronomy, or why certain practices are done at certain times. Whatever the question you have, if I don't have the answer I will provide it for you.

 

Fairways, Greens, and remember to repair your ball marks!

with the exception of cutting greens for obvious reasons, why are cutting crews not cutting from18 to 1 rather than 1 to 18. Back to front will run into constantly different groups, I was followed on 12 of 18 holes by a tee cutter and trap trike

 

While I don't know of a course that goes 18 backwards unless theres a special event going on, not every crew goes 1 forward. It just depends on several things such as where the shop is in relation to the course, the first tee times, the start time of the crew, and equipment availability. Ideally though you are starting early enough to always be out in front of play so that the course is presentable for the golf players. Why you were followed by tee mowers and a bunker crew? I could not say for certain, but I can speculate with the best of them. Today being Sunday, it is likely that there was not a full crew in and if the tees and bunkers needed attention, then too few people were assigned the task and unable to stay in front of all play. Perhaps there was a cushion in between your group and the next group and the crews were merely trying to maintain the gap in play, I know that I have done that (albeit reluctantly) before.

 

I do think that it would be difficult to go 18-1, although you're right one group would not be subjected to maintenance the whole round, but working against the flow is not the easiest. Which is why my last though above, staying in between you and the next group, is the most logical answer from where I am sitting.

[mallrat]

We have 36 holes at my facility. 1 course goes putting green,9, 1,2, 13, 3,4,5,6, 7, 8, 10,11,12,14, nursery, 15-18.

 

The other goes putting green, 1, nursery, 2-7, 12, 8, 10, 9, 11, 13, 14-18.

 

That is all based on routing and allows us to bounce around a bit if we do get caught by play. Normally when we have to fall in behind a group we try not to tail them too long because it can be annoying as you said.

[mallrat]

Might be a technical question but have you ever experienced or been at a club that has black layer? They have been doing things the same way for years and the guy cutting cups today only waters on weekends but has a turfcare degree from NCSU and runs their trials program (Sygenta I believe) and he was showing me how dry our soil was. Looking in the cup the first inch was very wet (40% + using his moisture meter on every green) but under that was dry as a bone.

 

Have you dealt with that or how could we get the water to flush deeper?

[BNGL]

Might be a technical question but have you ever experienced or been at a club that has black layer? They have been doing things the same way for years and the guy cutting cups today only waters on weekends but has a turfcare degree from NCSU and runs their trials program (Sygenta I believe) and he was showing me how dry our soil was. Looking in the cup the first inch was very wet (40% + using his moisture meter on every green) but under that was dry as a bone.

 

Have you dealt with that or how could we get the water to flush deeper?

 

You guys need to aerify and top dress...yesterday. Black layer is bad, bad, bad news.

 

For those that don't know what black layer, it is a black layer of metal sulfides (specifically Hydrogen Sulfide H2S) that accumulate just below the surface of the soil profile as a result of anaerobic bacteria. As you said you will have problems getting water to penetrate past this layer, but water is not the only thing that can't penetrate; nutrients, roots, oxygen, and other gases cannot penetrate nor escape this layer. When you aerify you remove enough of the H2S particles to facilitate water penetration, gaseous exchanges, and root development.

 

I don't often (if ever) tell someone what to do on their golf course, but if you have black layer open those greens up immediately. If you cannot do that, stop watering so much, You are literally feeding the bacteria that produce H2S, these bacteria love two things organic matter (which can also be removed/managed by aerification) and water.

 

Text me if you need to get ahold of me I will PM you right now.

[mallrat]

What is your depth set at for verticutting greens?

[2bGood]

Thanks for such a great thread

[BNGL]

What is your depth set at for verticutting greens?

 

Mine now are right at the surface, but my greens are three seasons old this season so I’m not looking to eliminate thatch, because there’s not much there right now. I’m just trying to remove tissue from the blade which will help stand it up straighter for tight cutting. But even when I had older greens, I’d just tickle them up.

[Schley]

OT slightly, however I was at the Essex County Club a couple weeks ago and they have 4-5 grass tennis courts. Any idea of how to keep these? Is it like a putting green?

[raynorfan1]

OT slightly, however I was at the Essex County Club a couple weeks ago and they have 4-5 grass tennis courts. Any idea of how to keep these? Is it like a putting green?

 

Quite different turfgrass requirements than a putting green, given that the force and stress demanded on the grass is night and day different.

 

For those interested in grass tennis court maintenance, the grounds crew at Longwood Cricket Club (in Massachusetts) has a pretty regular blog / twitter feed going (@LCCGrounds).

[BNGL]

OT slightly, however I was at the Essex County Club a couple weeks ago and they have 4-5 grass tennis courts. Any idea of how to keep these? Is it like a putting green?

 

There’s some similarities, but it’s right in between golf and sports turf management. Yeah it’ll be mowed down tight, but I’d bet a chunk of change they’re not greens heights (<.095 in.) I’d say they’re probably closer to, 5/16 of an inch, so .3125 or so. That’s a little above tee heigh for me. I have clay courts and members like those fine, but if i had guess I’d imagine there more topdressing (to keep it firm) and similar moisture management practices to a green. There’s definitely more stress put on the turf day in and day out, but I’d imagine with proper practices and rotation of courts you could keep it nice all season long.

 

That’s a good question, and I don’t have the answer for it. I’ll reach out, but I don’t think any clubs around us have grass courts.

[raynorfan1]

OT slightly, however I was at the Essex County Club a couple weeks ago and they have 4-5 grass tennis courts. Any idea of how to keep these? Is it like a putting green?

 

There’s some similarities, but it’s right in between golf and sports turf management. Yeah it’ll be mowed down tight, but I’d bet a chunk of change they’re not greens heights (<.095 in.) I’d say they’re probably closer to, 5/16 of an inch, so .3125 or so. That’s a little above tee heigh for me. I have clay courts and members like those fine, but if i had guess I’d imagine there more topdressing (to keep it firm) and similar moisture management practices to a green. There’s definitely more stress put on the turf day in and day out, but I’d imagine with proper practices and rotation of courts you could keep it nice all season long.

 

The real challenge in a hot summer for the grass court crew is that you can only water once a day. Unlike wet putting greens, you can't play on a wet court. So the crew really has to optimize for how much moisture the grass is going to need when they water in the morning.

 

And you also don't typically get the luxury of 'rotating' courts - members expect the courts to be available all the time.

[BNGL]

https://clubandresortbusiness.com/2010/09/qa-with-certified-golf-course-superintendent-anthony-williams-about-the-eifgs-efforts/

 

An older article but a great read, and will always be applicable into the future.

[duffer987]

If a club/resort adds a new course, all things being equal how much of a % increase does that lead to in the maintenance budget?

I'm assuming there is some economies of scale going on there and it's not simply double?

[mallrat]

I really enjoy the brown is beautiful thing but is there grasses that are specific to that type of management or come back easier with less maintenance?

 

We have fescue rough and I know about fescue but anything else?

 

Edit...We also have bent fairways, approaches and greens, all different varietals and can’t imagine they would come back very easy

[smashdn]

Both bermuda and zoysia will dry up with less water inputs. I have never seen them pushed to full on brown out during the growing season but you can dry them out and they get a "silvery" look to them that places very nice. It is rare though as most places will not let the fairways hard and fast unless they just don't have the coin for irrigation system or water to run through it.

 

Those are warm season grasses though. If you are talking bent and fescue you likely aren't in an area with predominantly warm season grass.

[BNGL]

Sorry duff and MR for not replying been in Ohio the past couple days.

[BNGL]

If a club/resort adds a new course, all things being equal how much of a % increase does that lead to in the maintenance budget?

I'm assuming there is some economies of scale going on there and it's not simply double?

 

It’s not automatically double. Only things I have seen drastically increase, and would be concerned about if I was adding 18 more holes, would be labor costs. The challenge nowadays is lots of companies now are raising their standard wages. CFA and Starbucks are all 15 plus. I can’t compete with that.

 

Water costs would be the next thing I’d be concerned about, there would need to be a plan in place to recycle reclaim and reuse the water to make it more affordable over time.

 

I don’t have a number to put on it, so I won’t even try to speculate.

[BNGL]

I really enjoy the brown is beautiful thing but is there grasses that are specific to that type of management or come back easier with less maintenance?

 

We have fescue rough and I know about fescue but anything else?

 

Edit...We also have bent fairways, approaches and greens, all different varietals and cant imagine they would come back very easy

 

Well brown is beautiful only works if you have the appropriate conditions beneath the surface. Bermuda’s can go brown, but because they accumulate thatch at such an increase rate compared to cooler season fescue grasses, you would be hard pressed to play bump and runs or putt from far off the greens like you see on the British Open.

 

[North Texas]

If a club/resort adds a new course, all things being equal how much of a % increase does that lead to in the maintenance budget?

I'm assuming there is some economies of scale going on there and it's not simply double?

 

It’s not automatically double. Only things I have seen drastically increase, and would be concerned about if I was adding 18 more holes, would be labor costs. The challenge nowadays is lots of companies now are raising their standard wages. CFA and Starbucks are all 15 plus. I can’t compete with that.

 

Water costs would be the next thing I’d be concerned about, there would need to be a plan in place to recycle reclaim and reuse the water to make it more affordable over time.

 

I don’t have a number to put on it, so I won’t even try to speculate.

 

We're dealing with this right now. Talked to our superintendent this weekend and he is having a big problem keeping a full maintenance staff. We're at about 60% right now.

 

And I just want to mention that we are lower end private course with 20 year old bent grass greens here in North Texas and they are in great condition for this time of year. In fact, the entire course is in really good condition. Our super does a superb job considering the maintenance budget he works with. In fact, there's a well-known private club in the area that has a bigger fertilizer budget than our entire maintenance budget.

[Destroyer]

the labor thing is going to be a problem moving forward. the course that i work part time at has brought in about 9 mexicans, don't worry, the legal way. i am 42 and looking back i wish when i was in high school and after i would have worked at a golf course. the place i am at really doesn't mind if you get overtime so you can make a good bit of money. once my son is of legal working age he will be down there working. the golf course maint. side of things i think is going to have to change in the next few years. i don't know how but things will. when you have schools teaching these kids that blue collar jobs are not good it makes these jobs look bad and i think that is a shame. what the answer is i don't know. the business i own the hardest part is labor.

[Destroyer]

i am going to get on the soap box right now. so many people scream fix your ball mark on the green. well yesterday morning i was thinking about this while i was mowing a green, cause you can fix the worlds problems while you mow. when i get to a green i walk the green and check for any debris and check for ball marks. now it is dark, 6 in the morning so i can't see the ball marks as good. while mowing i can actually here the mower shave the top of the ball mark off, we have electric mowers so you can here these things. so now you have a shaved piece of green about the size of a quarter. so if some reason you don't have a tool to fix it at least take your foot and step on it to level it out so the mower doesn't scalp in the next morning!

[NDSwim]

Enjoying the thread and learning a lot.

 

Currently, my club is discussing replacing our greens. The greens were put in during late 90s to early 2000s. Discussion started after the overseed in 2016 as it was not a good transition. 90+ degree temperatures throughout October did not help the cause and the superintendent was trying all season to keep the greens. Come last year's overseed, we waited a week later and the weather cooperated thus the greens were great throughout the season. Right now, the greens are all bermuda with the winter rye overseed. While we get less play during the summer, the greens are running true now. After we open in late October and through middle of December the greens are good, but still pretty wet. From January till May they are great.

 

Greens committee is pushing for a change to Ultra-Dwarf Bermuda. Thoughts?

[BNGL]

Enjoying the thread and learning a lot.

 

Currently, my club is discussing replacing our greens. The greens were put in during late 90s to early 2000s. Discussion started after the overseed in 2016 as it was not a good transition. 90+ degree temperatures throughout October did not help the cause and the superintendent was trying all season to keep the greens. Come last year's overseed, we waited a week later and the weather cooperated thus the greens were great throughout the season. Right now, the greens are all bermuda with the winter rye overseed. While we get less play during the summer, the greens are running true now. After we open in late October and through middle of December the greens are good, but still pretty wet. From January till May they are great.

 

Greens committee is pushing for a change to Ultra-Dwarf Bermuda. Thoughts?

 

Where’s your club located? Personally I wouldn’t seed my greens, specifically for the inconvenience and inconsistencies. I had a winter 5 years ago, where I had 90s week of Christmas in Orlando. We’re slammed and I’ve got to run water between groups to keep them alive. Not fun.

 

Not overseeding will you see a poorly conditioned course? Absolutely not. Golf players are conditioned to expect green all year round. It sounds like you might be far enough south that conditions won’t be that bad. It’ll go a little off color, but your drives will hop and greens will be pure fast and firm.

[NDSwim]

In the Phoenix area. I think we are going to go on a year by year basis until another bad overseed then go Ultra-Dwarf Bermuda.

[BNGL]

In the Phoenix area. I think we are going to go on a year by year basis until another bad overseed then go Ultra-Dwarf Bermuda.

 

Ah ok. That desert golf of emerald green and dormant roughs with desert scrub looks great, I was going to say if you’re south of the Mason Dixon id recommend leaving it alone. Desert golf is a cool look.

[Tiemco]

OT slightly, however I was at the Essex County Club a couple weeks ago and they have 4-5 grass tennis courts. Any idea of how to keep these? Is it like a putting green?

 

Check out Wimbledon’s site, they have a whole section describing their court maintenance. They are cut to 8 mm and are basically rebuilt every year.

[sethdavidsdad]

What is the best way to deal with collar dams? Our collars have developed a hump over the years and we need a budget way to fix these. Any suggestions?

[BNGL]

What is the best way to deal with collar dams? Our collars have developed a hump over the years and we need a budget way to fix these. Any suggestions?

 

Both these are pretty inexpensive, just labor intensive. Hole and roll approach, tine the hell out of it then water it and roll it. That’ll remove the hump, but might not solve the turf issues or fix it f it’s really bad.

 

Best way I know is to take a sod cutter, cut out the raised areas and then remove the sand/dirt/material from the ground and then replace the turf into the newly leveled areas.

[sethdavidsdad]

What is the best way to deal with collar dams? Our collars have developed a hump over the years and we need a budget way to fix these. Any suggestions?

 

Both these are pretty inexpensive, just labor intensive. Hole and roll approach, tine the hell out of it then water it and roll it. That’ll remove the hump, but might not solve the turf issues or fix it f it’s really bad.

 

Best way I know is to take a sod cutter, cut out the raised areas and then remove the sand/dirt/material from the ground and then replace the turf into the newly leveled areas.

Trying to convince our greenskeeper to try tin and roll first then fix more severe areas. Most of these areas were part of our greens at one time and berumda has crept in. We are getting ready to change grasses and want to fix these areas and reclaim in the process.

[BNGL]

What is the best way to deal with collar dams? Our collars have developed a hump over the years and we need a budget way to fix these. Any suggestions?

 

Both these are pretty inexpensive, just labor intensive. Hole and roll approach, tine the hell out of it then water it and roll it. That’ll remove the hump, but might not solve the turf issues or fix it f it’s really bad.

 

Best way I know is to take a sod cutter, cut out the raised areas and then remove the sand/dirt/material from the ground and then replace the turf into the newly leveled areas.

Trying to convince our greenskeeper to try tin and roll first then fix more severe areas. Most of these areas were part of our greens at one time and berumda has crept in. We are getting ready to change grasses and want to fix these areas and reclaim in the process.

 

Tining won’t necessarily fix it, or fix it as wholly as removing the material. My recommendation would be to just wait until you’re re grassing anyways. Then it’s one stop shopping