Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?

[Obee]

@obee

 

Aah, you get yourself a Tour yardage book and memorize green contours, and you scout out the course via Google Earth!! Then it will be easy! Nobody else has had that idea, this makes golf soo much easier. Thank you! (irony off)

 

Don't get me wrong, I believe that you are a really good player (you mentioned it about 200 times in the last three days, by the way), but you still don't hit it far enough to score well there. And still with 235 carry you will have to hit it places where you have good access to the green consistently. And if you did that and you attack every second green with a fairway metal you won't get too many chances at an easy par. If everything goes absolutely perfect you may do it. But you will have to get in shape first. If LA CC exhausts you, Augusta National will, and not to a lesser extent.

 

Who says I have to score well?!?!

 

I have to shoot 84!!!

[JeffreySpicoli]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

[Obee]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

[Obee]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

 

LOL! Thank you, Matthew! The funny thing is, this isn't even about me. I'm carrying the torch for at least 20 or 30 other guys I know as well!!

[benno_r]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

 

LOL! Thank you, Matthew! The funny thing is, this isn't even about me. I'm carrying the torch for at least 20 or 30 other guys I know as well!!

 

Statistically, you are carrying it for at least 1000 across the US.

[kg92lefty]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

 

LOL! Thank you, Matthew! The funny thing is, this isn't even about me. I'm carrying the torch for at least 20 or 30 other guys I know as well!!

 

Statistically, you are carrying it for at least 1000 across the US.

 

Everyone on here has read obees posts and know his game. Bear Creek is no joke so he is a player. Who tf is lowheel Mr "touring pro" why should we believe him?

[benno_r]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

 

LOL! Thank you, Matthew! The funny thing is, this isn't even about me. I'm carrying the torch for at least 20 or 30 other guys I know as well!!

 

Statistically, you are carrying it for at least 1000 across the US.

 

Everyone on here has read obees posts and know his game. Bear Creek is no joke so he is a player. Who tf is lowheel Mr "touring pro" why should we believe him?

 

I think you misunderstand what I write - I believe there is over 1000+ Scratch golfers in the US who can break 85 at Augusta as per OP's post. There are over 100000 scratch golfer's in the US, and I don't think I am over estimating thinking 1% could do it.

[lowheel]

Obee

 

You feel the need to defend yourself and thats cool but i stick by my statement. I did q school there years ago. That course was getting torched with 62s and 63s in TOURNAMENT CONDITIONS. you claim to have averaged 74.5 in NON TOURNAMENT CONDITIONS. See the problem? thats 12 shots right there and yes A player of Rickies caliber would dust you everyday in that situation by 12+. 63 is not even a crazy # for that place. Torrey would give you fits at 7500 in tourney conditions with no roll.

I didnt read your thread about playing with Phil and Rickie so that point is irrelevant for this discussion.

In closing you dont play golf with those guys, you play casual rounds where they dont even know you're there.Youre not competing against them ( maybe in your mind you are which is ok) you set up props, play different tees, get 4 aside, etc... not in the same universe let alone planet. Again, not attacking your ability just how you assess it.

Like i said dont take it so personal, your belief is what it is and if you believe with your game and its limitations you can break 85 at the masters in sunday conditions as is stipulated by the op power to you but i also have the right to to challenge your overconfident statements and boasts especially seeing how you've never even attended a masters.

I reiterate, its not a slam against you but I really believe youll change your mind if you go down there.

If you shoot 78s at LACC from 7400+ in non tourney conditions even with miracle front nine up and downs from 80 yards in maybe re evaluate a realistic # at augusta. Bayonet black and its other course are way. way easier than LACC.

thanks for the civil response

[lowheel]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

Good for you, seriously no snark. torrey is long (you can hit hybrids/woods around the greens and get it to stop ) but about 5-7 shots easier than augusta and again in non tourney shape or speed... thats the difference

[lowheel]

Obee, you can sleep well tonight. I believe you.

 

LOL! Thank you, Matthew! The funny thing is, this isn't even about me. I'm carrying the torch for at least 20 or 30 other guys I know as well!!

 

Statistically, you are carrying it for at least 1000 across the US.

 

Everyone on here has read obees posts and know his game. Bear Creek is no joke so he is a player. Who tf is lowheel Mr "touring pro" why should we believe him?

 

This is an easy game to play. whos kg92lefty and why should i believe him? see how that leads nowhere? lets Keep things civil please were having a discussion, not an argument. Agree to disagree also works.have a good one

[lowheel]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

From what tees do you play? whats the yardage ? do you walk or ride? green speed day to day? see these are variables when considering OPs question

 

Also not sniff for me means youd struggle to hit that #.thats my belief with the limitations in your game that you described. Again nothing personal, just having a discusson. if you dont hit it 275 consistently there are no easy pars there(augusta).

[yebritas]

I think that a REAL scratch golfer that plays good long courses from the tips, has a decent putting game and is kind of long from the tee could perfectly shoot under 80 at augusta.

[Obee]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

From what tees do you play? whats the yardage ? do you walk or ride? green speed day to day? see these are variables when considering OPs question

 

7,157. Slow in summer. 11.5 to 13+ late fall to winter/early spring.

 

We host Q-School.

 

I play a mix of tees. Used to play 6900 to 7,157 exclusively. Now that I am 50, we play the blues some on Sundays.

 

I am 1/1 in open qualifiers for pro events, by the way. Shot 70 at Oak Valley 5 years ago to get into the Cal Open.

 

This year got into the Cal Open and played well day 1 and was under the cut line, but had an awful day 2. Gusts to 35 and had back spasms, which I get from time to time.

 

My buddy, also scratchish, made the cut as an am.

 

Do you think that anyone who can make the cut in a legit full field professional event can break 85 Augusta?

 

 

[the bishop]

Jesus. Let it go.

[Obee]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

Good for you, seriously no snark. torrey is long (you can hit hybrids/woods around the greens and get it to stop ) but about 5-7 shots easier than augusta and again in non tourney shape or speed... thats the difference

 

That was the day after the tournament. Same pins. Exact same tees. :-)

[Obee]

Jesus. Let it go.

 

Nope. Guys keep pushing, I will pushback. I am as certain as they are. When they stop, I will stop.

[lowheel]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

From what tees do you play? whats the yardage ? do you walk or ride? green speed day to day? see these are variables when considering OPs question

 

7,157. Slow in summer. 11.5 to 13+ late fall to winter/early spring.

 

We host Q-School.

 

I play a mix of tees. Used to play 6900 to 7,157 exclusively. Now that I am 50, we play the blues some on Sundays.

 

I am 1/1 in open qualifiers for pro events, by the way. Shot 70 at Oak Valley 5 years ago to get into the Cal Open.

 

This year got into the Cal Open and played well day 1 and was under the cut line, but had an awful day 2. Gusts to 35 and had back spasms, which I get from time to time.

 

My buddy, also scratchish, made the cut as an am.

 

Do you think that anyone who can make the cut in a legit full field professional event can break 85 Augusta?

 

No very few and ill preface that with these reasons. Alot of guys who quailfy in those situations have intimate local knowledge or have played the course a bunch.Its like having a 15th club but their game doesnt always travel well

Also i have played the Cal open a few times but not since 2004. My buddy lost to Jason Gore by a few if i recall. Good times. Bear creek is still hosting that?

 

Also about the back issue i completely understand those things flare up worse during a tourney it hamstrings you.im dealing with sciatica myself right now and waiting for these injections to kick in so i can play a few mckenzie tour events and qualifiers.

Again thanks for your civil response! :)

[lowheel]

Not trying to stir the pot more as its getting heated but are the guys who are saying "a scratch wouldnt shoot 85" actually scratch?

 

From following this whole thread and commenting a bit I get the feeling that many of the scratch guys believe they could do it but the guys who dont think it could happen are higher caps?

 

I mean I side with Obee on this one. No cameras. No galleries. No pressure. Even as a non-scratch 2 capper I don't see the problem?

 

Its not like you forget to putt. Sure they are the toughest, fastest greens etc. But I'm not gonna have 40 putts. There is no OB and Augusta is admittedly forgiving from the tee compared to many courses good players play regularly this is just common fact. Minimal rough. The course rating says a scratch should get it done. We all know the holes better than any other course in the world.

 

Just a vibe I'm getting. Mid Cappers saying no and legit scratch guys believing in their own ability to get the job done. Its an 85. Not a 72.

 

To add to your well thought out response, even though i disagree, All scratches are not equal. I have students who are true scratches and play tough courses from the tips 7000+ and some scratches who play 6600 yard courses and are pushed to the limit if they speed up greens and grow rough at their course.

Obee doesnt hot it fr enough or high enough to sniff 85 at augusta despite his self belief. other tourney scracthes i know would fare better and might hover in the the low 80s high 70s as they hit it 275+ and have great to good short games and play TPC style tough courses with fast greens.

 

Sniff 85?!?!

 

God you guys absolutely kill me.

 

What does "not sniff" mean? 89? 91? 106?

 

I also don't hit it long enough to shoot 78 at Torrey from 7500. But I did.

 

Regarding golf course types and where people play most: My home course is rated 75.7/146.

 

Good for you, seriously no snark. torrey is long (you can hit hybrids/woods around the greens and get it to stop ) but about 5-7 shots easier than augusta and again in non tourney shape or speed... thats the difference

 

That was the day after the tournament. Same pins. Exact same tees. :-)

 

What year? we might have crossed paths! ive played on mondays there after the tourney twice. 1 was way worse than the other as the rain made the course play like 7800+ Played with Brad Faxon that day. He turned to me and said thats why im moving to the booth after hitting 3 wood into a par 4! guy can still roll the heck out of the ball though. He and Stricker are ridiculous in money games

[Obee]

Probably 5 or 6 years ago now....

 

Buddy set it up. It was a blast.

 

And, yes, there were one or two par fours I could not reach in 2!!

[Mcgeeno]

Its 85 for a scratch. +13.

 

Slap it around keep it in play and make 10+ bogeys and collect some cash.

 

 

Course dont mattah.

 

Obee, Healthy Richard and a dozen other legit scratch tourney tested guys are getting it done in this forum.

 

I take the under all day if the number is 85 at Augusta for a scratch.

[lowheel]

Jesus. Let it go.

 

Nope. Guys keep pushing, I will pushback. I am as certain as they are. When they stop, I will stop.

 

I dont know how you feel about it but i think its a civil discussion and we disagree on the OPs question. i dont see you attacking anybody? Im certainly not attacking you. i feel its a good fun discussion, hope it is for you too :)

[lowheel]

Its 85 for a scratch.

 

Course dont mattah.

 

Obee, Healthy Richard and a dozen other legit scratch tourney tested guys are getting it done in this forum.

 

I take the under all day if the number is 85 at Augusta for a scratch.

 

With the stipulations the OP put forward? just asking for clarity

[Obee]

Jesus. Let it go.

 

Nope. Guys keep pushing, I will pushback. I am as certain as they are. When they stop, I will stop.

 

I dont know how you feel about it but i think its a civil discussion and we disagree on the OPs question. i dont see you attacking anybody? Im certainly not attacking you. i feel its a good fun discussion, hope it is for you too :)

"

All good for sure!! :-)

[lowheel]

Probably 5 or 6 years ago now....

 

Buddy set it up. It was a blast.

 

And, yes, there were one or two par fours I could not reach in 2!!

 

I played in 09 and 13.If it rains the rough becomes insane that # of unreachable par 4s triples!! i prefer the old layout but they added yardage to host the open and so on but it was way more fun 15 years ago

[Mcgeeno]

What is your handicap lowheel? I missed that as its a pretty big thread to keep up with at this point.

[Mcgeeno]

 

With the stipulations the OP put forward? just asking for clarity

 

100 percent.

 

No galleries, no pressure, no money on the line? Some of the "scratch guys" here are playing for paychecks etc on the regular. I'd rather take my chances at breaking 85 from Augusta with nothing on the line than playing for my paycheck from a "regular ho-hum 76 rated course"

 

The course rating bears this out and sides with me. Its a 78.1 Sight unseen add 3. Add 5. I don't care.

 

Your talking about an A+ level golfer who has hit every shot and had some tough putts shooting +13 or better. Not a 75.

[lowheel]

Jesus. Let it go.

 

Nope. Guys keep pushing, I will pushback. I am as certain as they are. When they stop, I will stop.

 

I dont know how you feel about it but i think its a civil discussion and we disagree on the OPs question. i dont see you attacking anybody? Im certainly not attacking you. i feel its a good fun discussion, hope it is for you too :)

"

All good for sure!! :-)

 

I dont know who mentioned it a few pages back but golf channel should do something like this where 20-50 amateurs from 0 to 5 to 10 caps play either a us open venue or the masters in tourney shape to give people at home real perspective and film it to add "pressure so to speak". For like a good chunk of money per category handicap. im sure tons of people would watch and it would give alot of discussion material for threads like these and peak peoples interest.not to mention provide a lifetime of memories for a ton of people.

[lowheel]

What is your handicap lowheel? I missed that as its a pretty big thread to keep up with at this point.

im a +4.5 and play on several mini tours and partially exempt on the Mckenzie tour

[lowheel]

With the stipulations the OP put forward? just asking for clarity

 

100 percent.

 

No galleries, no pressure, no money on the line? Some of the "scratch guys" here are playing for paychecks etc on the regular. I'd rather take my chances at breaking 85 from Augusta with nothing on the line than playing for my paycheck from a "regular ho-hum 76 rated course"

 

The course rating bears this out and sides with me. Its a 78.1 Sight unseen add 3. Add 5. I don't care.

 

Your talking about an A+ level golfer who has hit every shot and had some tough putts shooting +13 or better. Not a 75.

 

Cool, thanks for expanding on that. If we were talking a regular tour event i could see it the way you do but for me the x factor that is augusta looms large. I really believe a miniscule amount of scratch golfers can handle it from the tips with those green complexes in sunday conditions to the tune of that score. good discussion to have for sure!

[Mcgeeno]

im a +4.5 and play on several mini tours and partially exempt on the Mckenzie tour

 

Wow!

 

Nicely done that is rarified air man.

 

What do you shoot in this scenario you figure?

 

I'm Canadian so I follow the Mckenzie pretty closely. Some legit sticks out there. I've played with a couple. (Or gotten spanked by a couple haha)

 

In the end, I don't really qualify for this discussion as I'm a 2.6 and I would say a medium tourney tested player. I've shot my differential plenty but never gone really low in a tourney.

 

I just don't think there is a course out there where a real scratch couldnt scrape it around and post a target 85 under zero pressure. We arent talking about a low score. Or a medium score. If the goal was 85 for this exercise.

 

Dont care about length, green speed, undulations, side hill lies. If a guy has had his share of tourney golf he's seen that stuff a bunch. He's probably played 7400 or close. I really think that number is just a little too high. Its 13 FIVES and 5 FOURS. Plan it out and make it happen, LOL.