Could a Scratch Golfer break 85 at Augusta?

[swing thoughts]

My two cents:

 

I'm no scratch, but I did play the Golf Club of Houston a couple of weeks after the Shell Open from the Sunday pro tees that they left up. I was about a 2.4 hc at the time and routinely shoot around par from the blues or blacks from most munies I play. Granted I'm not very long (for golfwrx where everyone swings 110+) but I can put it out there 300 maybe once a round with a little wind or downhill.

 

It's a very short course, so I was able to hit fairway wood, hybrid or iron off some tees and leave myself comfortable approach distances. I shot 92. It kicked my a**. No fans, no lightning fast greens, no Jordan Speith or Dustin Johnson breathing down my neck, just me and the course. Russell Henley, the winner, would have beaten me by exactly 100 strokes over the course of the weekend. Bryce Molder, who finished last, would have beaten me by 78.

 

I don't know if your friend could do it, but I don't think we realize just how much better the pros are than a scratch golfer. My experience would lead me to think it's possible but not likely.

[Bye]

An article from Dennis Pugh, Molinari's coach.

 

http://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/news-and-events/general-news/2016/january/professional-golfers-are-even-better-than-you-think--and-have-the-handicaps-to-prove-it/

 

He mentions a scratch golfer playing in a major.

[coachemup]

I have not read this whole thread (and not planning on it), but barring horrible weather I see no issues with a "true" scratch golfer shooting 85 or better at Augusta (or any course for that matter). I don't play to scratch any

longer due to not practicing much or playing much anymore, but no matter what course I step, no matter what tee's I play from and no matter what the conditions are, I plan on shooting 75 or better. Just because its Augusta, Bethpage, Oakmont, etc... I don't see any reason for a change in thinking. Hit the fairway, hit the green, 2 putt and move onto the next one.

 

I think too many people over analyze everything such as what the pro's shoot, what their handicap is and how good they are. I know they are alot better than I am (played with many), but they want to shoot 65 and I want to shoot 75. No reason for either of us not break 85.

 

Just my 2 cents

[Apex93]

I can contribute a little here! Apologies in advance for combining an obnoxious humble brag (this will read a little like "not only did I get to play augusta, but I am awesome at golf!") with an attempt to give some info...

 

I played there as a scratch a couple of years ago.

It was a week before the Masters, so pretty close to tourney conditions. My host said the greens would be even quicker when the tourney started, which is tough to imagine - they were glass that day (I've played tournaments rolling at 12, but this felt faster - and the greens even break a ton more)! Though, I did hit that spot on 16 on the back left of the green and it didn't roll back down to the Sunday pin, which was a total bummer - I thought I was gonna ace it - so I'd have to believe they play it faster.

 

The big HOWEVER was that we played from the members' tees, which makes it CONSIDERABLY shorter - I hit long-irons into a few of the par 5s and a hole like 11 I was hitting wedge where most pros seem to be hitting hybrid into the green). Some of the par 3's like 12/16 the tees are within a few yards of the tournament tees.

Other caveats - 1) it was my first round of the season (though I had obviously put in a couple bad-weather range sessions because, well, because I had the opportunity to play Augusta) 2) I picked up a few 3 footers.... RELAX - the course was actually pretty busy with groups and pros practicing.... and I figured my host didn't want to see me reading 3 footers from all sides...

 

I shot 79. The majority of those bogeys came from 3 putts (and, uh, a four putt on 9. Well, technically, I'm not sure how you count putts when you putt it off the green twice.).

 

Back to the question - yes, I'm sure a scratch could break 85, and even 80. Hit the driver as hard as you can - you can spray it in any direction as the fairways are surprisingly wide, the rough isn't rough and the pine-straw is very playable.

The difficulty in the course lies in the greens and the green complexes. So much break in those greens even at their tremendous stimp. Caddies were a huge help reading breaks and target areas, so that would cause some issues with your question. But, assuming a scratch hits a decent length tee ball (bonus if it is a draw) and has a good-to-great short game/putter, I certainly believe it is possible. I think I could do it in mid-season form.

 

As an aside, here's my favorite part of that day:

After the round, I'm at the urinal in the locker room. Guy posts up right next to me, and I can feel him looking at me (weird, right?), so I glance over. He's got an ear-to-ear grin and he says, "How effin great is this?!". Totally true - everyone there was having the best day of their lives.

[jmvargas]

oh yes!

[Santiago Golf]

I think Augusta would suit my game.

 

I've heard you need to bend the ball left and right to succeed there - and I certainly have that.

No right to left

[BigSky59]

Friend and I were having a discussion. He says he could do it and would not only break 85, but 80 as well!

Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees. He said he wouldn't make a double bogey, and would birdie #13. What do you all think?

Could a high school kicker make a 35 yard field goal?

Friend and I were having a discussion. He says he could do it and would not only make it from 35, but 50 as well! Stipulations are Lambeau Field in December, 50,000 fans, 20 degrees with -15 windchill, 45 mph headwind, and you can't wear shoes. What do you all think?

 

Both of these scenarios started out as yes absolutely, until the stipulations are added in.

 

Even NFL pro kickers aren't hitting a 50yd kick in a 45mph headwind and esp in a -15F windchill. Don't think there has been a game w/ 45mph wind & esp. that cold.

 

Check kicker/coach quotes from last year NFL playoffs. Kickers called football a rock that was is unkickable beyond 35yds.

Fyi, game time conditions 0F and 10-15mph wind.

I think you took my comment a little too literally....

[Valtiel]

I think Augusta would suit my game.

 

I've heard you need to bend the ball left and right to succeed there - and I certainly have that.

No right to left

 

LOL oops.

[lowheel]

I have not read this whole thread (and not planning on it), but barring horrible weather I see no issues with a "true" scratch golfer shooting 85 or better at Augusta (or any course for that matter). I don't play to scratch any

longer due to not practicing much or playing much anymore, but no matter what course I step, no matter what tee's I play from and no matter what the conditions are, I plan on shooting 75 or better. Just because its Augusta, Bethpage, Oakmont, etc... I don't see any reason for a change in thinking. Hit the fairway, hit the green, 2 putt and move onto the next one.

 

I think too many people over analyze everything such as what the pro's shoot, what their handicap is and how good they are. I know they are alot better than I am (played with many), but they want to shoot 65 and I want to shoot 75. No reason for either of us not break 85.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

I like your confidence but your post shows me ( no offense) youve never played a course of that caliber in tournament condition and pressure. Until you do it you wont know. Golf is humbling like that and alot of guys find out the hard way. I play US open Qualifiers with scratches every year and they rarely break 80. Always hear the same thing. "this is my worst round this year!" "i havent shot over 74 in like 3 years" " the slow pace is really affecting me" " if i made the putts i usually make it would be a different round ( guy who shot 81)"

 

99% of scracthes would melt on those green speeds. roughly 70% of scratches play courses from 6700 and below.

[gioguy21]

I have not read this whole thread (and not planning on it), but barring horrible weather I see no issues with a "true" scratch golfer shooting 85 or better at Augusta (or any course for that matter). I don't play to scratch any

longer due to not practicing much or playing much anymore, but no matter what course I step, no matter what tee's I play from and no matter what the conditions are, I plan on shooting 75 or better. Just because its Augusta, Bethpage, Oakmont, etc... I don't see any reason for a change in thinking. Hit the fairway, hit the green, 2 putt and move onto the next one.

 

I think too many people over analyze everything such as what the pro's shoot, what their handicap is and how good they are. I know they are alot better than I am (played with many), but they want to shoot 65 and I want to shoot 75. No reason for either of us not break 85.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

I like your confidence but your post shows me ( no offense) youve never played a course of that caliber in tournament condition and pressure. Until you do it you wont know. Golf is humbling like that and alot of guys find out the hard way. I play US open Qualifiers with scratches every year and they rarely break 80. Always hear the same thing. "this is my worst round this year!" "i havent shot over 74 in like 3 years" " the slow pace is really affecting me" " if i made the putts i usually make it would be a different round ( guy who shot 81)"

 

99% of scracthes would melt on those green speeds. roughly 70% of scratches play courses from 6700 and below.

can't like this post enough. you take a scratch golf and put him in a qualifier of any decent substance -- you see what they REALLY shoot.

 

faster, tourney green speeds will make true scratch golfers shoot +4 or +5 on their best days.

[golfer07840]

I can contribute a little here! Apologies in advance for combining an obnoxious humble brag (this will read a little like "not only did I get to play augusta, but I am awesome at golf!") with an attempt to give some info...

 

I played there as a scratch a couple of years ago.

It was a week before the Masters, so pretty close to tourney conditions. My host said the greens would be even quicker when the tourney started, which is tough to imagine - they were glass that day (I've played tournaments rolling at 12, but this felt faster - and the greens even break a ton more)! Though, I did hit that spot on 16 on the back left of the green and it didn't roll back down to the Sunday pin, which was a total bummer - I thought I was gonna ace it - so I'd have to believe they play it faster.

 

The big HOWEVER was that we played from the members' tees, which makes it CONSIDERABLY shorter - I hit long-irons into a few of the par 5s and a hole like 11 I was hitting wedge where most pros seem to be hitting hybrid into the green). Some of the par 3's like 12/16 the tees are within a few yards of the tournament tees.

Other caveats - 1) it was my first round of the season (though I had obviously put in a couple bad-weather range sessions because, well, because I had the opportunity to play Augusta) 2) I picked up a few 3 footers.... RELAX - the course was actually pretty busy with groups and pros practicing.... and I figured my host didn't want to see me reading 3 footers from all sides...

 

I shot 79. The majority of those bogeys came from 3 putts (and, uh, a four putt on 9. Well, technically, I'm not sure how you count putts when you putt it off the green twice.).

 

Back to the question - yes, I'm sure a scratch could break 85, and even 80. Hit the driver as hard as you can - you can spray it in any direction as the fairways are surprisingly wide, the rough isn't rough and the pine-straw is very playable.

The difficulty in the course lies in the greens and the green complexes. So much break in those greens even at their tremendous stimp. Caddies were a huge help reading breaks and target areas, so that would cause some issues with your question. But, assuming a scratch hits a decent length tee ball (bonus if it is a draw) and has a good-to-great short game/putter, I certainly believe it is possible. I think I could do it in mid-season form.

 

As an aside, here's my favorite part of that day:

After the round, I'm at the urinal in the locker room. Guy posts up right next to me, and I can feel him looking at me (weird, right?), so I glance over. He's got an ear-to-ear grin and he says, "How effin great is this?!". Totally true - everyone there was having the best day of their lives.

 

You're from Jersey.. ever play Pine Valley?

[coachemup]

I have been around these boards forever and still do not know how to quote something. lol

 

Gioguy and Lowheel, let me just say it like this, I have played in qualifiers and so forth and I know there are guys that can't go out there and break 90 due to the stress. I learned how to handle my stress on a pitcher's mound in front of thousands of people and most of them are yelling the nastiest things you could imagine at me. Fast Greens is not stress ;)

 

My advice is to be careful when you try and lump what you think are the same apples in the same basket.

 

Carry on..............

[J_Tizzle]

I said it earlier, truly think its what kind of scratch golfer we talking.

 

Big difference between a scratch guy who travels and plays in stroke play tourneys vs the scratch that plays at his home course and travels for scrambles.

 

I think its doable absolutely, but you gotta have the right type of scratch golfer.

[Obee]

I have not read this whole thread (and not planning on it), but barring horrible weather I see no issues with a "true" scratch golfer shooting 85 or better at Augusta (or any course for that matter). I don't play to scratch any

longer due to not practicing much or playing much anymore, but no matter what course I step, no matter what tee's I play from and no matter what the conditions are, I plan on shooting 75 or better. Just because its Augusta, Bethpage, Oakmont, etc... I don't see any reason for a change in thinking. Hit the fairway, hit the green, 2 putt and move onto the next one.

 

I think too many people over analyze everything such as what the pro's shoot, what their handicap is and how good they are. I know they are alot better than I am (played with many), but they want to shoot 65 and I want to shoot 75. No reason for either of us not break 85.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

I like your confidence but your post shows me ( no offense) youve never played a course of that caliber in tournament condition and pressure. Until you do it you wont know. Golf is humbling like that and alot of guys find out the hard way. I play US open Qualifiers with scratches every year and they rarely break 80. Always hear the same thing. "this is my worst round this year!" "i havent shot over 74 in like 3 years" " the slow pace is really affecting me" " if i made the putts i usually make it would be a different round ( guy who shot 81)"

 

99% of scracthes would melt on those green speeds. roughly 70% of scratches play courses from 6700 and below.

 

Sigh....

 

There are plenty of scratch players that are members of elite clubs who keep their greens 11.5 to 12.5 all year round and who get them to 13+ for big local and club tourneys.

 

I'm a 1 to +2 index. The worst round I have shot, IN MY SCRATCH LIFE is 87. And that was in 30 mph sustained winds with gusts to 50+

 

Give a good player who's also a good putter (and especially a tournament player) 30 minutes on any practice green and they will figure out the speed. They may not be completely comfortable, but it's not like they're going to 3-jack 11 times. Unless they have the yips… LOL

 

I'm sure you are a solid player. In fact, it sounds like you are a pro. My club hosted 2nd stage of Q-school for years. 7,157, 75.7/146. I know what tough is.

 

I just played Los Angeles Country Club. From the US Open tees on the back of every tee as a challenge with some friends. 7,550, Par 70(!) At sea level.

 

I shot 34 on the front. 44 on the back.

 

I'm 50 years old. And I carry driver 235.

 

A scratch player, without question, can break 85 at Augusta from the tips. He could also shoot 78.

 

He could also shoot 93.

 

 

 

 

[Spicoli]

Playing it blind with no caddie and breaking 80. Possible but not likely.

 

They hit it to very specific spots... Miss those and it's 3 putt-o-rama.

[Roadking2003]

Friend and I were having a discussion. He says he could do it and would not only break 85, but 80 as well! Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees. He said he wouldn't make a double bogey, and would birdie #13. What do you all think?

 

Not with tournament conditions. He would three putt six or seven times. I played in in member conditions, but the members don't play it with Stimps of 13 or more.

[Obee]

Friend and I were having a discussion. He says he could do it and would not only break 85, but 80 as well! Stipulations are no caddie, no cart, no walking the course beforehand, and 1 hour warmup before the round. Sunday tournament conditions, from the back tees. He said he wouldn't make a double bogey, and would birdie #13. What do you all think?

 

Not with tournament conditions. He would three putt six or seven times. I played in in member conditions, but the members don't play it with Stimps of 13 or more.

 

Yes, with tournament conditions.

[cschenck89]

The first 10 times...no. that's a golf course where you need to know everything about it. once he/she got used to place, I'd say they could fire under 80 consistently

[tgoodspe1991]

I read a bit of this post, but decided to jump to the end to throw my thoughts into the ring.

 

I like to think I could break 85, but 80 might be tough.

 

That's more-so due to the conditions of the simulation... basically rolling up to the clubhouse with no practice and no on-course assistance (sounds like your friend is annoyingly cocky). The no practice is whatever, I don't practice heavily, but it helps to ask a buddy, "Hey, what's the best line of this tee? Is it over the tree or best to play right of that?". At the end of the day, they're still just golf courses, and the reason why better players are better players is not only in our physical golf game, but also in our mental game and decision making that travels with us no matter what course we play on.

 

But again, with that being said, having never played Augusta National before, playing it in the hardest conditions they can make it, and refusing any on course help what-so-ever? Yeah, it would be pretty tough for anyone to do. Rory Mcilroy has shot 80 there with a caddie, with previous on-course knowledge, with a ton of practice, playing for a living, and he has 4 Major Championships to his name, etc. etc.

 

Shots can be spent quickly around tough courses like Augusta National.

[umassgolfer]

Rory shot an 80 there because every hole he was trying to shoot his best score to win a tournament. I bet if you told Rory he needed to shoot a 76 he would address the course entirely differently.

 

If a scratch went out there and played the course to a "Par" of 85, there would be tons of risks taken out of play. It's the same advice that's been give on these boards to so many newer golfers/those of us looking to improve. You don't need to be on every green in 2. If Iron-iron-wedge will "guarantee" you being on the green in 3, take your two putts and move on. If you hit into the trees, take your medicine, don't try for the hero shot, take your bogey.

 

The 4 par-5's and the 16th hole should easily be played to their actual par by a scratch golfer. That means every other hole can be played for bogey. For example, approaching the 5th hole or 11th hole as a par-5 doesn't seem nearly as intimidating.

[CallawayLefty]

Under the scenario posed I would say our hypothetical scratch player:

 

-Breaks 80 1 time

-Shoots 80 to 85 8 times

-Shoots over 85 1 time

 

Yeah, it will be really hard, but they'll still make some pars and have some birdie looks. They'd have one really good round and shoot 78 and one really bad round and shoot 86. Most of the time they'd shoot 82-83 with 8-10 pars, 1-2 doubles, and the rest bogies.

[tgoodspe1991]

Rory shot an 80 there because every hole he was trying to shoot his best score to win a tournament. I bet if you told Rory he needed to shoot a 76 he would address the course entirely differently.

 

If a scratch went out there and played the course to a "Par" of 85, there would be tons of risks taken out of play. It's the same advice that's been give on these boards to so many newer golfers/those of us looking to improve. You don't need to be on every green in 2. If Iron-iron-wedge will "guarantee" you being on the green in 3, take your two putts and move on. If you hit into the trees, take your medicine, don't try for the hero shot, take your bogey.

 

The 4 par-5's and the 16th hole should easily be played to their actual par by a scratch golfer. That means every other hole can be played for bogey. For example, approaching the 5th hole or 11th hole as a par-5 doesn't seem nearly as intimidating.

 

I think I see what you're saying, and I agree. If a good player is taking the risks necessary to shoot a 66, those shots could easily backfire on him/her and they could shoot 86. But if you're approaching the round with the sole intention of shooting an 85 or better as your "Par", and shift your strategy appropriately, then yes, it shouldn't be too difficult.

[jmvargas]

my good friend was a local legend and the best amateur golfer ever produced by my country and as an amateur won our national open in 1966 and was invited to the Masters that year..

 

iirc he also was the first ever amateur from Asia invited to the Masters..

 

in his first practice round he told me he hit all 18 greens in regulation including putting for eagles on 13 and 5 and shot 79.

 

he said the undulations on some greens were so great you would think they buried an elephant in there..

 

he made the cut in in 1966 and 1967 but failed the third time after shooting 83 in the 2nd round..

 

at that time the cut for amateurs was not the same as for the pros as i think they wanted a minimum amount of amateurs to play the last 2 rounds although i don't remember how many--maybe 4 or 6..

 

he had also represented our country in the World Cup--or Canada Cup at the time--with our best pro at least once and won our national amateur 11 times and low amateur in our national open at least 8 times..

 

he was about a +4 or +5 handicap in his prime...

 

PS: in 1991 when i was 45 and he was 51 we played 2 straight weekends at a course he was managing and i outplayed him 71-76 and 76-77..... and of course he told me he was not feeling well at the time and initially jokingly refused to sign the scorecard but when i told him i had 3 witnesses as we were a 5-some he finally did and i still have it!!...

[Barfolomew]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

[golfer929]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

Okay, what do you think a scratch will shoot first time at Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia USA under the stipulations provided?

[Obee]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

Okay, what do you think a scratch will shoot first time at Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia USA under the stipulations provided?

 

An average of about 81.

 

So many golfers do not understand math....

[Obee]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

 

From the back tees, a true scratch golfer has zero chance of breaking the course record at Augusta. They could play it a million times and they would never approach the course record. Never.

 

About the best a true scratch player could ever hope to shoot at Augusta from the tournament tees would be one or two under par or maybe a couple lower than that. 68 or 69 if they played 100,000 times.

 

Their average score would be 81ish.

 

We are not guessing here, folks. This is math. If you want to talk about "tournament pressure"… Blah blah blah, then that is a completely separate factor.

 

Of course if you put an amateur in a PGA Tour tournament for the first time, they are going to sh*t all over themselves. But that is a separate factor, and not part of the original question.

 

Bottom line, Augusta's course rating FOR THE MASTERS, is absolutely no higher than 77 or 78. At its absolute peak.

 

Unless it's 51 degrees and blowing 20+, which it was several years ago.

 

Sigh....

[lowheel]

I have not read this whole thread (and not planning on it), but barring horrible weather I see no issues with a "true" scratch golfer shooting 85 or better at Augusta (or any course for that matter). I don't play to scratch any

longer due to not practicing much or playing much anymore, but no matter what course I step, no matter what tee's I play from and no matter what the conditions are, I plan on shooting 75 or better. Just because its Augusta, Bethpage, Oakmont, etc... I don't see any reason for a change in thinking. Hit the fairway, hit the green, 2 putt and move onto the next one.

 

I think too many people over analyze everything such as what the pro's shoot, what their handicap is and how good they are. I know they are alot better than I am (played with many), but they want to shoot 65 and I want to shoot 75. No reason for either of us not break 85.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

I like your confidence but your post shows me ( no offense) youve never played a course of that caliber in tournament condition and pressure. Until you do it you wont know. Golf is humbling like that and alot of guys find out the hard way. I play US open Qualifiers with scratches every year and they rarely break 80. Always hear the same thing. "this is my worst round this year!" "i havent shot over 74 in like 3 years" " the slow pace is really affecting me" " if i made the putts i usually make it would be a different round ( guy who shot 81)"

 

99% of scracthes would melt on those green speeds. roughly 70% of scratches play courses from 6700 and below.

 

Sigh....

 

There are plenty of scratch players that are members of elite clubs who keep their greens 11.5 to 12.5 all year round and who get them to 13+ for big local and club tourneys.

 

I'm a 1 to +2 index. The worst round I have shot, IN MY SCRATCH LIFE is 87. And that was in 30 mph sustained winds with gusts to 50+

 

Give a good player who's also a good putter (and especially a tournament player) 30 minutes on any practice green and they will figure out the speed. They may not be completely comfortable, but it's not like they're going to 3-jack 11 times. Unless they have the yips… LOL

 

I'm sure you are a solid player. In fact, it sounds like you are a pro. My club hosted 2nd stage of Q-school for years. 7,157, 75.7/146. I know what tough is.

 

I just played Los Angeles Country Club. From the US Open tees on the back of every tee as a challenge with some friends. 7,550, Par 70(!) At sea level.

 

I shot 34 on the front. 44 on the back.

 

I'm 50 years old. And I carry driver 235.

 

A scratch player, without question, can break 85 at Augusta from the tips. He could also shoot 78.

 

He could also shoot 93.

 

Nothing you posted supports your case. La country club aint augusta not even close. Your worst round of 87 in 30 mph winds would be 97+ at augusta. You hover at scratch to +1 and carry it 235? Do you think you break 85 at augusta in tourney conditions? Id bet my house you wouldnt. No offence of course just stating the obvious.Youd be hitting hybrids and woulds into some of those greens... think about that for a minute

[lowheel]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

 

From the back tees, a true scratch golfer has zero chance of breaking the course record at Augusta. They could play it a million times and they would never approach the course record. Never.

 

About the best a true scratch player could ever hope to shoot at Augusta from the tournament tees would be one or two under par or maybe a couple lower than that. 68 or 69 if they played 100,000 times.

 

Their average score would be 81ish.

 

We are not guessing here, folks. This is math. If you want to talk about "tournament pressure"… Blah blah blah, then that is a completely separate factor.

 

Of course if you put an amateur in a PGA Tour tournament for the first time, they are going to sh*t all over themselves. But that is a separate factor, and not part of the original question.

 

Bottom line, Augusta's course rating FOR THE MASTERS, is absolutely no higher than 77 or 78. At its absolute peak.

 

Unless it's 51 degrees and blowing 20+, which it was several years ago.

 

Sigh....

 

Based on what? you carry the ball 235 you said. you think you average 81 there? sigh indeed

[lowheel]

Strange question could a scratch break 85.....a scratch could not only shoot under but could break course record on first attempt! Odds are against it but they could ......If all your approach shots happen to be great its over!

 

Maybe ask what do scratchies typically shoot for first time at Augusta...

Okay, what do you think a scratch will shoot first time at Augusta National Golf Club in Augusta, Georgia USA under the stipulations provided?

 

An average of about 81.

 

So many golfers do not understand math....

 

Pretty cavalier with your math, no? read my other response to you and formulate a breakdown of how you get to that #. Are you pretending all scratches are equal? roughly about 5% of scratches could play the tips in tourney conditions at augusta and hit 50% of greens in reg. Course rating and index is an outlier when were talking US open setups and augusta national. You know this. pga professionals who qualify for the PGA championships are +2+3+4 caps and cant break 75/76 at the PGA but a scratch at augusta will break 80 hell 85 consistently?