MD/DC/VA Golfers - This One Goes to Eleven

[baddomes]

Oh I thought the question was did it cross - and then come out/re-enter the hazard around the corner.

 

The way you drew it, it seems like it would be easy enough to tell.

 

IIRC the way the edges cant there, it would be pretty hard for a snap hook to stay out of the hazard.

 

His drawing is a little exaggerated to help visualize the point. I think the ball ended up near where #1 is, but with the big elevation change and the height of the weeds in the hazard, it's reasonable to assume you wouldn't see the ball bounce if it did in fact barely cross the hazard and landed in the rough.

 

It was really close to making it over.

[dcmidnight]

DC and I are hitting Northwest at 2:30 tomorrow, if any dingii want to join.

 

2:20 actually - someone must have sniped 2:30 while I was confirming it.

[vtnerf]

If you can't tell what it did, you're hitting 3 off the tee.

[SullGolf]

There are (at least?) three possibilities there:

A) For ballflight #1, its in the hazard all the way, so you have to retee (edit: should retee...you have other options but on that shot they aren't viable ones).

B) For ballflight #2, it might be in the hazard, but you have no way of knowing what the line of entry (or if there was one) was since you can't see it. You have no way of knowing whether it crossed in or stayed in.

C) You can't find the ball at all. In which case you have to retee.

 

So I think provisional is the right play. If you find it outside of the hazard, play that ball. If you find it inside the hazard, play the provisional.

 

I can't think of a scenario where you could play a tee ball and actually take advantage of that lateral hazard. Unless you had a spotter from the group in front of you tell you it went in.

[ceejay81]

I get you are saying that there is a chance the ball could be lost OR in the hazard. So you think there should be a provisional allowed. I think my problem with hitting a provisional there is that once you go down and can't find your ball, there is no way to tell if it's lost in the rough somewhere or in the hazard. If you do find it in the hazard, the provisional is abandoned at that point. The problem is when you don't find it.

[TheCityGame]

If you can't tell what it did, you're hitting 3 off the tee.

The point was I declared a provisional, not a ball in play per 26-1.

 

They thought I couldn't do that.

 

If we get down there and find the ball in the hazard, the provisional has to be abandoned. They thought I couldn't even hit a provisional. I just had to put another ball in play. At least, that's how I interpreted what they were saying.

 

If we find the ball in the rough, it's all good. This option is LOST to me if I put another ball in play under 26-1.

 

The "interesting" part would be if we get down there and can't find the ball. Then it could turn into a confrontation.

[SullGolf]

Maybe if you hit a HBD-esque hook you could tell that it was in then crossed then went in to the hazard. But you'd have a hard time telling WHERE it crossed. But a normal pull draw probably wouldn't cut it. There just isn't a good angle from the tee to see it.

[ceejay81]

There are (at least?) three possibilities there:

A) For ballflight #1, its in the hazard all the way, so you have to retee.

B) For ballflight #2, it might be in the hazard, but you have no way of knowing what the line of entry (or if there was one) was since you can't see it. You have no way of knowing whether it crossed in or stayed in.

C) You can't find the ball at all. In which case you have to retee.

 

So I think provisional is the right play. If you find it outside of the hazard, play that ball. If you find it inside the hazard, play the provisional.

 

I can't think of a scenario where you could play a tee ball and actually take advantage of that lateral hazard. Unless you had a spotter from the group in front of you tell you it went in.

 

I don't think you can hit a provisional no matter what if you think it went into a hazard. If it went into the hazard, you're dropping.

 

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding this whole situation.

[TheCityGame]

So I think provisional is the right play. If you find it outside of the hazard, play that ball. If you find it inside the hazard, play the provisional.

IMO, the provisional is the right play there. HOWEVER, if you find it inside the hazard, you have to abandon the provisional.

 

Then, you either play it, or go back to the tee.

 

There is a section in the appendix that says you can have a local rule for provisional balls that might be in a hazard. But, if you find your ball in the hazard you either need to play it or play the provisional. You don't have the other options normally available. This kind of makes sense in "equity".

[TheCityGame]

There are (at least?) three possibilities there:

A) For ballflight #1, its in the hazard all the way, so you have to retee.

B) For ballflight #2, it might be in the hazard, but you have no way of knowing what the line of entry (or if there was one) was since you can't see it. You have no way of knowing whether it crossed in or stayed in.

C) You can't find the ball at all. In which case you have to retee.

 

So I think provisional is the right play. If you find it outside of the hazard, play that ball. If you find it inside the hazard, play the provisional.

 

I can't think of a scenario where you could play a tee ball and actually take advantage of that lateral hazard. Unless you had a spotter from the group in front of you tell you it went in.

 

I don't think you can hit a provisional no matter what if you think it went into a hazard. If it went into the hazard, you're dropping.

 

Unless I'm totally misunderstanding this whole situation.

You can't hit a provisional if it's KNOWN or VIRTUALLY CERTAIN it went into the hazard. It's not just what you "think" happened.

 

If you said, "City, I'm virtually certain that ball is in the hazard, so no provisional for you. you have to re-tee" then it would have been pretty bad when we got to the rough and found my ball.

 

FWIW, all four of us THOUGHT that ball was in the hazard. It was a pretty lucky find.

[ceejay81]

Not sure if this was already linked:

 

http://www.barryrhodes.com/2010/04/when-you-may-not-play-provisional-ball.html

 

"27-2a/2.2 Possibility That Original Ball Is in Water Hazard May Not Preclude Play of Provisional Ball

Q. If a player's original ball may have come to rest in a water hazard, is he precluded from playing a provisional ball?

A. No. Even though the original ball may be in a water hazard, the player is entitled to play a provisional ball if the original ball might also be lost outside the water hazard or out of bounds. In such a case, if the original ball is found in the water hazard, the provisional ball must be abandoned — Rule 27-2c (Formerly 27-2c/1)"

[TheCityGame]

That was't linked, but that's the page I sent to my playing partners from Friday because we were discussing it.

[HighBoomingDraws]

On a completely different note, just submitted for a vacation day for Thursday, June 21st. I was kicking around the idea of setting up a mobile office in the Little Bennett club house to pretend to work for a few hours mid day. I decided I'd rather just golf from sun up to sun down with no conscious. Trying to concentrate on my round while feeling compelled to answer 20 work calls/emails is never a good recipe for me.

 

CAN.NOT.WAIT.

 

I need to get out to LB before hand for a practice round. Very familiar with the course but haven't played it in a few months.

[ceejay81]

So it sounds like provisionals are acceptable in this situation as long as you feel it's possible the ball could be lost outside of the hazard.

 

Seems like there could be some Spiethian-esque bending of the rules in a situation like this.

[SullGolf]

Not sure if this was already linked:

 

http://www.barryrhod...ional-ball.html

 

"27-2a/2.2 Possibility That Original Ball Is in Water Hazard May Not Preclude Play of Provisional Ball

Q. If a player's original ball may have come to rest in a water hazard, is he precluded from playing a provisional ball?

A. No. Even though the original ball may be in a water hazard, the player is entitled to play a provisional ball if the original ball might also be lost outside the water hazard or out of bounds. In such a case, if the original ball is found in the water hazard, the provisional ball must be abandoned — Rule 27-2c (Formerly 27-2c/1)"

 

Here's the weird situation at WM:

-You think it could be lost outside the hazard so you hit a provisional

-You find it inside the hazard and have to abandon the provisional

-You have to walk back to the tee to hit your 3rd because you don't know whether it ever crossed the hazard line. It's your best drop option.

 

That's a situation where I don't agree with the rules. Should have the option of playing that "provisional" as if it was your hazard drop. It's hard to think of a real scenario where re-teeing is a better option than dropping as a lateral where it crossed the plane, so it's not like they are gaming the situation by having the option. It just improves pace of play.

[vtnerf]

Maybe pay attention to where it does or doesn't cross. You are responsible for it, and if you cannot tell, you are hitting 3 off the tee.

[top.h]

On a completely different note, just submitted for a vacation day for Thursday, June 21st. I was kicking around the idea of setting up a mobile office in the Little Bennett club house to pretend to work for a few hours mid day. I decided I'd rather just golf from sun up to sun down with no conscious. Trying to concentrate on my round while feeling compelled to answer 20 work calls/emails is never a good recipe for me.

 

CAN.NOT.WAIT.

 

I need to get out to LB before hand for a practice round. Very familiar with the course but haven't played it in a few months.

 

Despite not being able to play on the 21st, i'd be game for getting out there this sunday.

[ceejay81]

Anybody remember the "You Make The Call" commercials from back in the day? Usually NFL and MLB related rules questions. Today feels like those commercials.

 

#YouMakeTheCallWRX

#RulesWRX

 

[thechief16]

Maybe pay attention to where it does or doesn't cross. You are responsible for it, and if you cannot tell, you are hitting 3 off the tee.

 

Because it's a chute, you may not be able to see where it crosses the hazard. s***, you can barely see the left hand fairway from the tee box.

[mtn1414]

Anybody remember the "You Make The Call" commercials from back in the day? Usually NFL and MLB related rules questions. Today feels like those commercials.

 

#YouMakeTheCallWRX

#RulesWRX

 

 

Did those commercials last three hours?

[vtnerf]

Maybe pay attention to where it does or doesn't cross. You are responsible for it, and if you cannot tell, you are hitting 3 off the tee.

 

Because it's a chute, you may not be able to see where it crosses the hazard. s***, you can barely see the left hand fairway from the tee box.

Then the other guys should stand on the right side of the box and watch.

[HighBoomingDraws]

On a completely different note, just submitted for a vacation day for Thursday, June 21st. I was kicking around the idea of setting up a mobile office in the Little Bennett club house to pretend to work for a few hours mid day. I decided I'd rather just golf from sun up to sun down with no conscious. Trying to concentrate on my round while feeling compelled to answer 20 work calls/emails is never a good recipe for me.

 

CAN.NOT.WAIT.

 

I need to get out to LB before hand for a practice round. Very familiar with the course but haven't played it in a few months.

 

Despite not being able to play on the 21st, i'd be game for getting out there this sunday.

 

That sounds like a plan. I think I already have two more guys so that should round out a foursome. I hit you up this week to confirm.

[TheCityGame]

Maybe pay attention to where it does or doesn't cross. You are responsible for it, and if you cannot tell, you are hitting 3 off the tee.

 

Because it's a chute, you may not be able to see where it crosses the hazard. s***, you can barely see the left hand fairway from the tee box.

Then the other guys should stand on the right side of the box and watch.

They were standing there. Four of them. Dom, Domes, Mark and Rusty. Two of whom are members and THEY didn't know. I've played 100 rounds on that course and I didn't know. Maybe just accept that you're not fully appreciating the sight lines from there.

 

 

 

That's a situation where I don't agree with the rules. Should have the option of playing that "provisional" as if it was your hazard drop. It's hard to think of a real scenario where re-teeing is a better option than dropping as a lateral where it crossed the plane, so it's not like they are gaming the situation by having the option. It just improves pace of play.

That's why there's the appendix I mentioned that allows for provisionals to be played for hazards that are unwieldy to get around.

[vtnerf]

There's a simple answer...don't hit it there. And if you do, you are hitting 3 from the tee.

 

And I feel like I've heard that response before...doesn't change golf.

[TheCityGame]

There's a simple answer...don't hit it there. And if you do, you are hitting 3 from the tee.

 

And I feel like I've heard that response before...doesn't change golf.

Nerf, do you understand that I found my ORIGINAL BALL IN PLAY?

 

I don't know what you're angle is here.

 

edit: *your

[misplacedtexan83]

Obtuse angle..

[SullGolf]

Ah, here's the suggested local rule you mention City. I think it would apply perfectly. WM would have to make it a local rule though, which they haven't.

 

I still don't necessarily agree completely, because it puts you as a disadvantage by removing your options. It's still in your best interest to not play a provisional, walk down and check, and then walk back and re-tee if necessary. There's no situation where you would actually want to use this if the round counts for something serious.

 

Appendix I - Local Rules

 

5. Water Hazards - Playing Ball Provisionally Under Rule 26-1

 

 

If a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard) is of such size and shape and/or located in such a position that:

 

(i)

it would be impracticable to determine whether the ball is in the hazard or to do so would unduly delay play, and

 

(ii)

if the original ball is not found, it is known or virtually certain that it is in the water hazard,

 

the Committee may introduce a Local Rule permitting the play of a ball provisionally under Rule 26-1. The ball is played provisionally under any of the applicable options under Rule 26-1 or any applicable Local Rule. In such a case, if a ball is played provisionally and the original ball is in a water hazard, the player may play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally, but he may not proceed under Rule 26-1 with regard to the original ball.

 

In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:

 

"If there is doubt whether a ball is in or is lost in the water hazard (specify location), the player may play another ball provisionally under any of the applicable options in Rule 26-1.

 

If the original ball is found outside the water hazard, the player must continue play with it.

 

If the original ball is found in the water hazard, the player may either play the original ball as it lies or continue with the ball played provisionally under Rule 26-1.

 

If the original ball is not found or identified within the five-minute search period, the player must continue with the ball played provisionally.

[baddomes]

 

Maybe pay attention to where it does or doesn't cross. You are responsible for it, and if you cannot tell, you are hitting 3 off the tee.

 

 

Then the other guys should stand on the right side of the box and watch.

 

There's a simple answer...don't hit it there. And if you do, you are hitting 3 from the tee.

 

And I feel like I've heard that response before...doesn't change golf.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, your Hive Handicap Committee Chair

 

[vtnerf]

He got his answer. Sorry for trolling the biggest troll. He knew the answer. Got the answer. And still continued.

Maybe next time I'll poke fun at a life threatening disease that has affected me personally. Maybe that'll get me props.

 

When was the last time someone asked the handicap chair for a ruling on a specific issue?

[FAbb]

Sully has given me the highest level of commitment one can provide ("strong maybe") for tomorrow, so it's a strong maybe we're down to 1 open spot at 2:20 at Northwest. Holla if anybody wants the last spot.