MD/DC/VA Golfers - This One Goes to Eleven

[FAbb]

It could be, which would make it even more insane. Having people blasting drives onto an adjacent hole on purpose is not exactly the kind of thing you want to promote.

 

There are some awesome bald eagles that live on the 9th hole apparently. They were out flying at one point, and we look up to see a large bird flying right over us. It wasn't one of the eagles. It was a vulture. I made a self-deprecating joke about how it could sense the weakness in me and was circling over waiting for the right moment to take me out. DC one-upped me by saying it was circling over getting ready to feed on the carcass of his dead golf game.

[SullGolf]

 

Why was everyone liking what Sully was saying and not what Tex was saying? Go read that in the light of a new day.

 

 

BECAUSE EVERYONE LIKES ALL CAPS, CITY.

[dcmidnight]

Be interested in having DC weigh in on this, but I was thinking that playing up the 1st fairway may be the play on 9.

 

I dont like that play only because from that angle there's nothing behind the green and for me - with the elevation/angle of the green - I have trouble with depth perception from that angle. You also bring real problems into play by having people trying to hit a 240+ yd shot, with - literally - zero margin for error. If I ever get over there the easiest thing to do is to hit something @ 200 back into the 9th fairway and pick up the better angle again for a chip-third.

 

Having people blasting drives onto an adjacent hole on purpose is not exactly the kind of thing you want to promote.

 

Its also this. People do it, its not ideal.

[TheCityGame]

Fabb's obsession with every par 5 on earth having to be reachable in 2 is insane.

[thechief16]

Obviously it's not ideal. I was just thinking it's a higher percentage play if you HAVE to try and get on in two.

[FAbb]

Fabb's obsession with every par 5 on earth having to be reachable in 2 is insane.

 

This one falls into the most infuriating category of unreachable par 5s - forced layup tee shot and second shot.

 

It's basically impossible to get a drive to where you have an angle to get at the green. If you hit driver anywhere but that absolute perfect spot, you're too close to the trees on the corner of the dogleg to hit over them for your layup. I had to punch-chip something through a gap in them. Oh, and there are 2 bunkers that you can hit over with driver, but are right in play with 3w. So you basically have to hit hybrid or less off the tee, and then lay up. Bleh.

 

My overarching obsession with unreachable 5s may be insane, but that hole stinks something fierce.

[XHoop24]

To pile on, got out twice this weekend. Played at EPP on Sat. morning as a last minute thing when I was up at 6 AM. Get out there and notice that Siegel is in the group behind me. Hit the ball well and shot I think 85. Back to back 7's on 13 and 14 kept me from a good score.

 

Got out on Sunday with DC, Sull, Fabb. Not a lot to add, but started out hitting the ball very well. Short game and putting kept me from putting up a good score on the front but ball striking went south as we ended the front nine and never really recovered. Combined with a below average short game/putting and its hard to piece together scores when the ball striking leaves for a bit. Perfect weather both days. really enjoyed Mt. Vernon. Very nice, walkable layout. Hit a lot of different clubs with a very challenging set of par 3's. Great burger and beer (Monumental IPA from Port City) after the round.

[misplacedtexan83]

Plays private course then complains about private course par 5 from the tips is not reachable

 

How you know you are on WRX...

[vtnerf]

It's almost like the course architect earned his money by designing a golf hole...

[GoTime]

Plays private course then complains about private course par 5 from the tips is not reachable

 

How you know you are on WRX...

 

Shouldn't you be warming up with your girthy soup-can putter grip?

[ceejay81]

Fabb, if you hit the ball like me, you'd think every par 5 sucks because none of them are reachable. :rofl:

[misplacedtexan83]

Oh it is Go Time...

 

Had to run by and try to get some Disney passes...

 

Tuna grip engage

[FAbb]

I appreciated DC having me out there as a guest. I'm pretty sure he knows that.

 

I do like to come on here and complain talk about golf in between butt powdering conversations, and that hole definitely ground my gears. When you're out there, you just play what is there and try to make the lowest score possible. From an armchair QB perspective, that hole is just a total throwaway. It's a one-dimensional par 5 that goes hybrid->mid-iron->wedge. There's basically zero to be gained by hitting your first two shots well. Two perfectly executed shots will basically end up in the same place as two perfectly mediocre shots. At that point it's a wedge and putting contest with everybody starting at the same spot.

[top.h]

dumb question, but how often are you making the election to go for a par 5 in two anyway?

 

It doesn't happen a lot for me despite finding myself right on 230-240 out regularly, which is a pretty decent 3W - more often than not, i'm hitting a 8i-9i to a safe spot and trying to put the ball closer to the hole on #3.

 

When are you greenlighting yourself for going for a par 5 in two?

[thechief16]

I don't believe that every par 5 should be reachable, and I had the exact same reaction as Fabb. I just hadn't vocalized it b/c I didn't want to seem ungrateful to my host.

 

My recollection is the fairway cants away from the tee, so even if you clear the RH fairway bunker, the ball is kicking left into or toward the LH fairway bunker. Regardless, you are stuck on the inside of the second dogleg. There is almost no way to hit a drive that sets up the proper angle to layup to 100y.

 

 

Listen, I love older courses that are crammed into neighborhoods that create some quirky holes. I just think removing a couple trees along the left hand side of the 2nd dogleg would open up options for players to get their second shot inside 130.

[FAbb]

They had a "kids buffet" table set up in the grill area. I guess kids ate free with adult.

 

Quick digression - we should've said I was DC's kid so I could hit the buffet for free. Fail.

 

Anyway, two guys without kids in tow are walking out to leave, and both shoink cookies from the kids buffet table for the road. Bold move.

[TheCityGame]

If on that hole a good long drive over the right bunker still doesn't give you a shot at the green, I would say I don't love that. There should be some reward for a bold, well-executed shot. And that reward should be more than "you get to lay up with a 9 iron rather than a 7 iron".

 

We've got a par 5 that everyone complains about, but I kind of like. A lot of people want to move the tees way up and make it a 4.

 

It's listed as 475 from the tips (470 whites). A creek crosses the fairway at an angle. It's 230-ish to cover the left, 280-ish to cover the right. But, if you miss left, it's hazard. Almost no one tries to cover the creek but if you do, you wind up in the "white" circle and have a nice look at the green. I did it downwind once and had 180 in.

 

Here's the thing that makes the hole. . .that yellow circle in the picture. . .it's 3 trees that are rather tall and absolutely block the line to the green from everywhere. They might as well be right in the middle of the fairway (and they're not down the hill like 10 at Potomac Shores). You wouldn't feel worried about hitting an 8 iron over them, but when you're coming in with a 3W or hybrid, you better get it up.

 

Options off the tee are. . .

 

1) Play to left side and try to give yourself a little more room and fade it around the trees.

2) Play a shorter short up the right and sling a hook around the trees. I like this because if I really go at a hybrid, it tends to hook. But there are trees here and you need to hit it a perfect distance.

3) The "best looking" line off the tee is the deep right portion of the fairway. It puts you closest to the green, but the trees are on a direct line now, and you're pretty close to them. If you're PQ and can hit a 6 iron 210 yards and 130 feet high, no problem.

4) Play up the first fairway IF the tees are far enough on the left side of the box to avoid a screen.

 

A typical play is to hit one between 1 & 3, and then play to the blue fairway, but there's actually a very narrow window to that fairway because of the "Big 3" trees and another tree left.

 

I'm not sure if it's a good hole or not but I like it. I know everyone on the tee is thinking birdie, but you need to hit a GREAT second shot for an easy birdie and that second shot can go wrong in a lot of ways (topped 3-woods end up in creeks. Balls hit those trees and get lost. The rough is thick on this hole. Sort of a tough green).

 

I do know that every time you have 4 guys out there, you see that hole played in 4 very different ways and I find that pretty cool. We had 4 chip shots in the other day and no birdies. There's some tough pins.

 

 

[SullGolf]

On #9, FAbb hit one in the fairway that was somewhere in the 280-300 yard range. And was totally blocked out. From there, his option was to attempt a 150 yard super low punch, or to hit it 50 yards at a 45 degree angle. If they let that portion of the fairway grow in and become rough, it wouldn't really be any different, but you at least wouldn't feel robbed when you hit it there.

 

Despite pumping one OB on #10, I was pretty happy with that hole. Would have loved to make that par (2nd ball eagle) putt. Match-wise, FAbb already hit one on the green and was putting for (1st ball) eagle, but I was getting a stroke. So we still could have split the hole if he 3-putts, which is a great position to be in after he drives the green and we both pump balls OB. Despite some F- drives, that drive at least showed I have some better potential than I did previously. That's a 260 yard straight ball, which means I've picked up some considerable club speed.

[FAbb]

dumb question, but how often are you making the election to go for a par 5 in two anyway?

 

It doesn't happen a lot for me despite finding myself right on 230-240 out regularly, which is a pretty decent 3W - more often than not, i'm hitting a 8i-9i to a safe spot and trying to put the ball closer to the hole on #3.

 

When are you greenlighting yourself for going for a par 5 in two?

 

 

So many factors to consider, but definitely more often that you are describing. If I can reach or get up in front with hybrid or less, and my lie is decent, it's pretty much 100% go time.

 

Otherwise, it depends on how much trouble there is, lie, how difficult a 3rd would be if I miss the green versus laying up, etc.

 

You start pushing the cap lower, and those long approaches are something you've got to start being able to hit. Par 5s are prime birdie opportunities. I can't be sitting 230-240 with a decent lie, a modest or less amount of trouble, and pull a short iron to lay up.

 

I don't believe that every par 5 should be reachable, and I had the exact same reaction as Fabb. I just hadn't vocalized it b/c I didn't want to seem ungrateful to my host.

 

DC already knows I'm ungrateful, so I figured I'd just give my honest criticism right there on the spot.

 

If on that hole a good long drive over the right bunker still doesn't give you a shot at the green, I would say I don't love that. There should be some reward for a bold, well-executed shot. And that reward should be more than "you get to lay up with a 9 iron rather than a 7 iron".

 

<wall of text about TV-O #9>

 

There is zero reward for hitting a good tee shot on the hole. There is also basically zero reward for hitting a well-executed second. It's two shots in a row with zero shot value.

 

I don't know if architecture folk would proclaim TV-O #9 as great, but I really enjoy the hole. There are so many options to play it, and you are a million percent rewarded for hitting bold, well executed first and/or second shots. Who cares what the par is on it. Moving the tees up would just kill that hole and make it generic. Everybody would just drive it over the creek, and it would become one-dimensional.

[dcmidnight]

From an armchair QB perspective, that hole is just a total throwaway.

 

Knowing the we like to nerd out golf architecture from time to time, I'd think you were crazy to think otherwise. Its the worst hole on the course. Chief's sentiment is...weird to me though. I appreciate that people are appreciative of playing but wtf do I care if people think there's a banged up hole out there, I love talking about it though.

 

I definitely dont agree that there is no value to your first two shots though. You still have to hit too good shots to give yourself a wedge in. Its still a tough hole from the black tees. You and City have this issue from time to time - you're both long hitting low single digit caps. You still need to hit two good shots on that hole to leave you a clean look at a third. Its absolutely not automatic.

 

BTW you cant chop the trees on the corner because at that point there'd be no defense for the parking lot/clubhouse/patio from idiots trying to slam 250 yard 3 woods. I dont love it - but it is what it is. You cant have the average donk (read, non single digit WRX members) thinking how great it is they can go for it now. That picture is a little ridiculous because the "trees" behind the green are tiny shrub like things.

 

There'd been talk of maybe turning it into a Par 4 and putting the tees where the greens/whites are in that pic and lengthening the 12th - which is @ 470 par 4 right now from the back tee - but that didnt go anywhere.

[SullGolf]

I like #9 at Turf Original. From my distance, I feel like I have to really think about what I'm going to do on the 2nd shot. There's the layup short of the 2nd creek, the longer layup past that creek, or going for it. If you hit a good drive down the right, that short layup feels way too short, but the trees can be in play with the longer layup across the creek. If you are hitting that tough layup over the creek, you think "why don't I just add some club and go after it?"

[FAbb]

I mean, I guess I was rewarded for hitting a long drive in the fairway, and being able to thread a punch through the trees for my lay-up. That put me a solid 70+ yards closer to the green than anybody else.

 

Definitely safety concerns in play on that hole. The pool is off to the right, the clubhouse is behind, and the first tee is off to the left. If you had everybody and their mother out there wailing at fairway woods going for the green, it could get ugly.

 

It stinks from a purely wishing it was a better hole perspective. Playing it on repeat would be fine though. Hit two serviceable shots, and then you're basically playing a short par 3 with a tough-ish green. Try to make the best number you can, and keep plugging along.

[davechen]

The family went out yesterday afternoon and played the front 9 at Northwest. 40 bucks for the four of us. A hell of a deal. The pro said if it wasn't for the deal, it would have cost us 120 including carts (although we walked). I've said it before, go and kidnap some kid and drag him out on the course, just to get the deal.

 

As fellow grinters might have seen, I shot a 38. Pretty fly for a Taiwanese guy. Best 9 I've shot in a long time. Maybe ever. Went birdie-birdie on 3 and 4, and almost holed out a chip on #5 that would have made it 3 in a row. Had to settle for par.

 

I was driving the ball really well. I had had a lesson with fabb's friend a while back, and got some really good advice, but as these things go, I had forgotten about it and fallen back in to prior habits. The other day his advice came back to me, and it straightened out my drives. Basically my arms tend to get too inside and get stuck to my body on the downswing. So he wanted me to go back straight behind me, not inside, so I had some space between my arms and body.

 

And I've found a weird putting thing. On short putts, I hardly use my right hand at all. It's touching the putter grip, but that's about it. I could almost be putting with only my left hand. The ball stays much more on line. I guess I can't steer it with the right hand this way.

[dagoose383]

Just out of curiosity would anyone be interested in making the trek down here on Friday morning to play Cedar Point at 0730? Can’t make the time until tomorrow but as of right now they are open in the morning.

 

Conditions are A+, price is great and scenery is picturesque.

[therealsneek]

The most recent Fried Egg pod is a decent listen if you are into GCA and can tolerate Andy stumbling through the whole thing as a host. He had architect Andrew Green on. I hadn't heard of him before listening to this, but he has done some restoration work on some major venues. They had a discussion on his work at Eisenhower Golf Course in Anne Arundel Co. He is making it bunker-less. It was pretty interesting to hear him talk about how doing this would save tons of money on maintenance costs. He said the challenge of having no bunkers is getting enough definition and hole presentation without the contrast of the sand. I never played there but he said they are going to leave the routing basically the same.

[TheCityGame]

And I've found a weird putting thing. On short putts, I hardly use my right hand at all. It's touching the putter grip, but that's about it. I could almost be putting with only my left hand. The ball stays much more on line. I guess I can't steer it with the right hand this way.

That's how I putt. I think it's why a lot of people go to claw/pencil too. Not sure how it relates to left hand low.

 

If you ever practice one handed putting, you might feel this. Right hand on the putter for just a little added stability, but left hand does all the work for me.

 

Some people might be opposite. Seems like there's right hand dominant putters, too, but I don't get it.

[FAbb]

Absolutely.

 

If you practice one-handed, it's pretty easy to figure out which hand is dominant in your stroke. I can putt very well with just my right hand, but not as much with the left. I guess I can't putt very well in general, so that last sentence was a stretch. When I go left hand only, it's very much a handle-dragging motion through the ball, with a tendency to push the ball.

 

Tiger is right hand dominant. It's why you'll see him practicing right hand only before every round. He needs to feel that hand controlling, and releasing the putter head a bit.

 

If I had to venture a guess from watching him putt, I bet Ricky is right hand dominant with his stroke.

[Von_Oberhausen]

Speaking of which, what are y'all's go-to podcasts? I've got the Fried Egg, GolfWRX (though I think all three channels are obnoxious in their own ways), Golf Science Lab, Me and My Golf, and the Golf Digest podcast. All are interesting some of the time, but surely there are more out there too.

[ceejay81]

Von_Ober - listen to No Laying Up. Really good podcast.

 

Everyone here thinks #TrustfundTron is the best on that show.

[willboyrd]

Speaking of which, what are y'all's go-to podcasts? I've got the Fried Egg, GolfWRX (though I think all three channels are obnoxious in their own ways), Golf Science Lab, Me and My Golf, and the Golf Digest podcast. All are interesting some of the time, but surely there are more out there too.

 

I enjoy Hosel Jockeys for the pure comedy of it. Chasing Scratch is also a fun one.

 

NLU obviously for great guests and funny banter.