Jump to content
2024 US Open WITB Photos ×

Rolling back the ball


Wesquire

Recommended Posts

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

Firstly, "therefore". Secondly, "I". Thirdly, a person who drives a car is not an expert on all its workings, but is undoubtedly where the buck stops as to the question of "is this a good car?". If it's a good car, the driver buys it. If it's not a good car, the driver doesn't buy it. Any intrinsic "goodness" of cars is a moronic construct. Cars are a product to be sold, price and accessibility are inherent qualities of a car at least as important (and, let's be honest, probably 100-1000 times more important) as the ingenuity of its engineering or the efficiency of its physics. Golf is a product to be sold. It is nothing other than that. If the car sells, it's good. If it does not sell, it's bad. It's a product. It is not an experiment in the efficiency or beauty of transportation. It's a product. Consumption demand tells us if it's adding value to people's lives. If golf sells, it's good. If it doesn't, it's bad. End of story.

 

Fourthly: https://www.geoffsha...tings-news.html

https://sgbonline.co...ajectory-in-q4/

https://www.golfdige...he-games-future

 

Finally: https://www.ibisworl...ntry-clubs.html

 

Reality: Golf is struggling due to attract young players. Golf Clubs are too conservative. Despite that, Golf Clubs gained economically over the last five years.

 

So, what have we learned? Golf is doing fine as an industry (that's all it is in any meaningful sense, after all). If it wants to do better, it should become less conservative and appeal more to younger players.

 

I leave it up to you to determine if nostalgia about distance will grow the game.

 

 

 

Whatever golf is doing, it shouldn't stop. It's selling

TM 2016 M2, Graphite Design Tour AD DI

Callaway Rogue 3w, 15º, Fujikura Motore Speeder

Yonex EZone XPG 3h, 18.25º, Fujikura Motore Speeder

Srixon U65 4di, 23º, Aerotech Steelfibre i95

Mizuno MP-59, 5i-PW, Nippon NS PRO 950GH WF

Cleveland RTX Zipcore, 50º,54º,58º, Nippon NS PRO 950GH WF 

Ping B60 Scottsdale TR, Nippon NS PRO Putter

Volvik S4

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

I would day it differently but yeah. Alistair MacKenzie is a legendary and influential course architect. A lot of his thoughts on courses are still used today as to routing and challenges to the players.

That said...there is nothing in golf that does not change. For example trees grow. And they die. So the way courses play evolves over time. There is nothing inherent in MacKenzies work that says the challenge would never change. I am confident that if he were able to design a course today he would be up to the challenge of designing a course for the modern game. He would not be stuck in the past.

Titleist TSR3 9° Tensei Pro Blue 60 

Titleist TS3 3w 13.5° HZRDUS Black 70

Titleist TS3 19°  hybrid Tensei Blue/Titleist TS3 23° Tensei Blue

Titleist T150 5-pw Nippon Pro Modus 125

Vokey SM8 50° F & 56° M SM9 60°M

Cameron Newport w/ flow neck by Lamont/ Cameron Del Mar

 



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

and the 9 iron today is really closer in spec to a 6 or 7 iron from the past...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

A 15 yd gain is not the difference between a 4i and a 9i. If you want to go back 100 yrs, there are many many factors since that time that contributed to that 4i - 9i difference. In 2000 pros were averaging 273 without the modern ball. Now the average is ~290. During his peak Jack was already driving 280. In 2000 without the modern ball pros were already playing a different game from that of the 1950s. Why pick on the ball?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

A 15 yd gain is not the difference between a 4i and a 9i. If you want to go back 100 yrs, there are many many factors since that time that contributed to that 4i - 9i difference. In 2000 pros were averaging 273 without the modern ball. Now the average is ~290. During his peak Jack was already driving 280. In 2000 without the modern ball pros were already playing a different game from that of the 1950s. Why pick on the ball?

 

Please be advised that I agree with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

A 15 yd gain is not the difference between a 4i and a 9i. If you want to go back 100 yrs, there are many many factors since that time that contributed to that 4i - 9i difference. In 2000 pros were averaging 273 without the modern ball. Now the average is ~290. During his peak Jack was already driving 280. In 2000 without the modern ball pros were already playing a different game from that of the 1950s. Why pick on the ball?

 

Please be advised that I agree with you.

 

Haha. I need to calibrate my tongue in cheek detector :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yep. You missed that it is based on emotion and an agenda.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go Jimmy Walker.

 

“Out there in the distance, besides the setting sun, is number 7 at Pebble Beach. I’ve hit 7 iron before. It’s 107 yards. I’ve chipped a 60 degree wedge. Too many variables in an outdoor sport to grasp what is actually happening. What I do know is the USGA does not have their fingers on the pulse of the game. Taking away a putter that helps many many people enjoy the game is wrong. Rolling back the golf ball 20% is another bad idea. Ask the normal golfer how much they would enjoy the game if they flew it 20% shorter. I’m asking. Would you enjoy that? Changing golf for the masses because a small few who play it a different level is wrong. The greats and USGA have it wrong.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

I would day it differently but yeah. Alistair MacKenzie is a legendary and influential course architect. A lot of his thoughts on courses are still used today as to routing and challenges to the players.

That said...there is nothing in golf that does not change. For example trees grow. And they die. So the way courses play evolves over time. There is nothing inherent in MacKenzies work that says the challenge would never change. I am confident that if he were able to design a course today he would be up to the challenge of designing a course for the modern game. He would not be stuck in the past.

 

This is very true. look at Oakmont and Doral. Almost unrecognizable from the 80s to now.Even augusta has fallen prey to that.You cant control storms or disease unfortunately.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the main issue the USGA has with the playability of courses. I used to work at a golf course architect firm so I understand the thinking that the course is designed to be played a certain way. There are many excellent courses that are obsolete and cannot host PGA tour events because they are just defenseless because bunkers and hazards are not in play for most of the pros. It is difficult and near impossible to lengthen some world renown PGA courses to play like the golf course architects designed them to play. It will be interesting to see how it plays out. 20% seems like a lot to scale back. However, if they did scale back the ball, it would definitely sting a lot at first but everyone is on the same playing field it would just be status quo after a while. There would be a ton of illegal golf balls out there, though. Haha.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

You forgot that those 9-irons are now basically 7-irons that fly as far as 5-irons. I punched a 9-iron about 220 the other day. #rollbackthe9iron

Titleist TSi3 9* Tensei AV White 65TX 2.0 // Taylormade SIM 10.5* Ventus TR Blue 6TX
Taylormade Qi10 15* Tensei AV White 85TX 1.0 // Taylormade Stealth+ 16* Ventus Black 8x
Callaway Apex UW 19* Ventus Black 8x // Srixon ZX Utility MKII 19* Nippon GOST Prototype Hybrid 10
Callaway X-Forged Single♦️  22* Nippon GOST Tour X  // Bridgestone J15 CB 4i Raw Nippon GOST Tour X
Bridgestone 
J15 CB 5i-6i 26*- 30* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 6.8-7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 7i-PW 34*- 46* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM9 50* Raw F-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Vokey SM6 59* Oil Can Low Bounce K-Grind Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Scotty Cameron Newport Tour Red Dot // Taylormade Spider X Navy Slant

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yep. You missed that it is based on emotion and an agenda.

 

Respectfully, on both sides...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not humiliation. It's survival.

 

All USGA has to do is force one, single change that causes the mass of golfers to stand up and Just Say No. They will cease to be the arbiter of the game millions play.

 

At this point, it doesn't matter if they tried to force "back to Balata" or just a vigorously enforced 10% or 20% reduction in ball performance across the board. Chance are they will have blown it once and for all.

 

What % of golfers follow the USGA rules or even know who they are? What % do? Which number is bigger and by how much? Group A (non-followers) is not going to quit golfing do to anything the USGA ( who they don't follow or know about ) does or does not do. Group B (rule followers) might maybe quit if the USGA does something they don't like. I don't know what an accurate estimate of the numbers of those 2 groups are, but my guess is that group A is many times larger than group B. If that is correct, then the there is no fear of mass exodus? Again I don't know how those numbers shake out. Someone here know? I don't think there is any risk of mass exodus from anyone no matter what the USGA does. The only quitting of golf by people who enjoy it is caused by lack of time and or money. Nothing else game related will cause masses of people to quit on the spot because the masses of people play golf however they want to play it regardless of the rules right now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, 42 pages now. Has anyone's mind been changed yet!?

 

I do have to admit, I like seeing a few more longer approach shots into the greens. But I'm already starting to see some of the distance loss associated with age. I don't want to see my shots going even shorter because the ball doesn't go as far.

 

On the top levels, I like the idea of simply longer and wetter fairways. I think a small simple solution to a small, simple (maybe) problem. If there really is a problem.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I don't know if I speak for more than myself but could you summarize what is in the audio. I have a strong dislike for that guy and I really don't want to sit and listen through it all when I can read a summary in a couple seconds.

 

I made it about 20 minutes. Don't know who these guys are, but they want to see 4-irons into par fours because Arnie did it, I guess. 1930-1990s was OK, but now it's not balanced, apparently. Guys used to hit more club into greens. They want to go back to those days, and we have to preserve the golf courses because Hale Irwin hit a one iron into a green once, and Ogilvy hit a 9-iron into the same green. Also, nobody cheers for drives at Augusta. That's about what I got from the first 20 minutes.

 

Maybe the USGA should outlaw 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 irons. Then they would have to hit a 4 iron.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Golf is a game. PGA Tour golf is entertainment. All of the customers are "authorities" on the subject, not just the lowest handicapped customers or golfers with the most golf skill or course designers. The only credential needed is to be a fan of PGA Tour golf. My opinion is just as valid as Jack's opinion.

 

But here is another view you might want to listen to;

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/walker-rips-usga-dont-have-their-fingers-pulse-game/

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

and the 9 iron today is really closer in spec to a 6 or 7 iron from the past...

 

you can wish this to be true, but it isn't so. the titleist tour model 6i from 1982 had a loft of 33deg. the 714MB 6i has a loft of 31deg, but please, keep ignoring things inconvenient with your "expert" opinion.

TaylorMade 2017 M1 440 Speeder Evolution 757x
Titleist 917F3 13.5 Fuji Speeder Pro TS 84X
Mizuno MP4 3-P X100
SM7 50F 54M 58M S400
Bettinardi BB1
@protrajT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I don't need to have someone tell me what is right and wrong in this matter. I agree with the PGA Tour, the PGA of America, and golfers like James Hahn (who actually would be impacted by this). Everyone is entitled to their opinions. We don't need to cite sources in how we came to our opinions.

 

This is true. Pro golf is an entertainment business. The opinion of the customers is all that matters. As a customer, my opinion is actually more important than Doak's opinion. Doak's position is a service provider.

 

Doak is like the guy who sells steering wheels to GM. He doesn't get to decide the future of GM cars. The MARKET (customers) does. Pro golf is no different.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My issue is Geoff Shackelord being touted as an authority on the matter. He talks down to any and everybody that disagrees with him. I'm all up for a constructive debate. He is only interested in his side of the story. His opinion matters, but I'd say it matters less than the tour pros he's bashing that are speaking out against a change that effects them directly.

 

I say that realizing this thread has steered in that direction at times.

 

Yeah, I dispise that guy. He represents everything that kept me from liking golf until I was a teenager. He is Judge from CaddyShack. Shooter Mcgavin on Happy Gilmore lol.

 

I suppose your more of a Matt Genela ( spelling ?) guy? Your opinion is your opinion andthatd cool. Give me Shak over almost any golf pundit I can think of.

 

You Can’t really call anyone out for talking down I don’t think. So far you’ve stated that course architects don’t know more than you. Wrong. No sane person thinks that the people who design and build any product don’t now more aboot it than the end user. Surely given you’re advertisement of vocation you get that. It happens to be same as mine. So I know you do.

 

And that anyone in favor of at least looking at equipment and rollback must have a Napoleon complex. Wrong. I’m 6ft3 212 and hit it plenty long. How does that work with your theory ? Am I somehow wanting to be 7ft and I world long drive ? ( I have no desire for either).

 

Come on man. At this point I can’t agree with you just because of the jabs about how anyone who thinks oppposite is stuffy and stupid. Just not true. There’s some merit on both sides of this debate.

Cobra LTD X 9* Hzrdus RDX blue 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

Ping i530 4-Uw AWT 2.0 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I looked up driving stats and from 2000 to 2001 avg driving distance jumped 6 yds when pros started using solid core balls, referred to as the start of the ProV era. Then they jumped another 6 yds 2002 to 2003 with the advent of large thin faced drivers. Since 2005 avg driver distance went up only 3 yds. So that's a total of 15 yds since 2000, only 6 of which can be attributed to the ball.

 

I don't see the problem. A 20% rollback would be 50 yds for a 250 drive. How is that commensurate with a 6 yd gain? Am is missing something here?

 

Yes. A guy designed some courses 100 years ago, and he thought some holes should be attacked with 4-irons. Now, those holes are attacked with 9-irons. That's about where we are.

 

You forgot that those 9-irons are now basically 7-irons that fly as far as 5-irons. I punched a 9-iron about 220 the other day. #rollbackthe9iron

 

This. Those TaylorMade irons go a mile but I'm convinced it's just a placebo affect on making you feel good about hitting it long, when essentially you're just hitting a 7 iron with a 9 on it. Hasn't really helped me hit any more greens though, you still need to be accurate, which is why long drive champions never make the tour.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Golf is a game. PGA Tour golf is entertainment. All of the customers are "authorities" on the subject, not just the lowest handicapped customers or golfers with the most golf skill or course designers. The only credential needed is to be a fan of PGA Tour golf. My opinion is just as valid as Jack's opinion.

 

But here is another view you might want to listen to;

 

http://www.golfchann...ers-pulse-game/

 

i read it, both Jimmy Walker and Lucas Glover are employees of titleist, not exactly an unbiased objective view. they are speaking out against a 20% rollback of the ball "for the masses"

 

1) that won't happen because "the masses" don't compress the ball as it is. the modern equipment hasn't helped them gain distance, changing it won't hurt them either. i would argue that it will actually help them via higher spin.

2) i would not support a 20% shorter ball for the guy that can't hit it 200 either.

TaylorMade 2017 M1 440 Speeder Evolution 757x
Titleist 917F3 13.5 Fuji Speeder Pro TS 84X
Mizuno MP4 3-P X100
SM7 50F 54M 58M S400
Bettinardi BB1
@protrajT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

I buy cars. Therefore I am part of the market that determines what cars we will buy and that is what GM and others are interested in. I don't need to be an expert in anything. In fact, I could be as dumb as nails. But that changes nothing. I (and millions of others) buy cars, therefore, GM must cater to us even if we are dumb.

 

GM builds cars for the MARKET, not for engineers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Golf is a game. PGA Tour golf is entertainment. All of the customers are "authorities" on the subject, not just the lowest handicapped customers or golfers with the most golf skill or course designers. The only credential needed is to be a fan of PGA Tour golf. My opinion is just as valid as Jack's opinion.

 

But here is another view you might want to listen to;

 

http://www.golfchann...ers-pulse-game/

 

i read it, both Jimmy Walker and Lucas Glover are employees of titleist, not exactly an unbiased objective view. they are speaking out against a 20% rollback of the ball "for the masses"

 

1) that won't happen because "the masses" don't compress the ball as it is. the modern equipment hasn't helped them gain distance, changing it won't hurt them either. i would argue that it will actually help them via higher spin.

2) i would not support a 20% shorter ball for the guy that can't hit it 200 either.

 

 

exactly my take... shills... for sure..both struggling and in no position to have any other opinion... It maybe their true opinion but its no accident that the ones against it are all titleist at this point and any who even hint at being for a rollback are mostly independent of a 14 club and ball contract

Cobra LTD X 9* Hzrdus RDX blue 

TM Sim2 max tour  16* GD  ADHD 8x 

Ping i530 4-Uw AWT 2.0 

Mizuno T22 raw 52-56-60 s400

LAB Mezz Max armlock 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still feel strongly that the underlying reason for the desire to nerf the ball is a deeper psychological reason. Kinda like the one where men of smaller stature feel compelled to work out and bulk up all the time.

 

I am not trying to insult btw, its a legit thing and I do think it plays a role in this.

 

are you seriously trying to say that I, as somebody that actually stands to lose legitimate distance from this, is the guy with the complex, and that those who hit it 200yds but are having seizures at the thought of losing even 1yard, are not the ones with the complex?

 

surely you jest.

 

i'd be the first 6'2'' 200lb baseball/basketball/football player with a napolean complex ever.

TaylorMade 2017 M1 440 Speeder Evolution 757x
Titleist 917F3 13.5 Fuji Speeder Pro TS 84X
Mizuno MP4 3-P X100
SM7 50F 54M 58M S400
Bettinardi BB1
@protrajT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i read it, both Jimmy Walker and Lucas Glover are employees of titleist, not exactly an unbiased objective view. they are speaking out against a 20% rollback of the ball "for the masses"

 

Oh, so only the paid experts who agree with you have an "unbiased objective view"? How about the bias of course designers trying to protect their designs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

do you guys have any authorities on the subject that supports your position you can point me to? or are you just going to make fun of people that actually care about this stuff?

 

Mike Clayton was a professional golfer and is now an architect

 

I am a recreational golfer, I am therefore an authority and ambassidor for both the short hitting and the long hitting amateur. You know, the ones that buy the balls and pay to see the tournaments live, and watch them on tv getting them ad revenue. The golfers that matter.

 

i drive a car, therefor i am an expert in mechanical engineering, physics, and materials science.

 

I buy cars. Therefore I am part of the market that determines what cars we will buy and that is what GM and others are interested in. I don't need to be an expert in anything. In fact, I could be as dumb as nails. But that changes nothing. I (and millions of others) buy cars, therefore, GM must cater to us even if we are dumb.

 

GM builds cars for the MARKET, not for engineers.

 

you of course have a valid opinion on what provides the best entertainment on the PGA Tour - if you are entertained by bomb and gouge - you are just as entitled to your opinion as i am. but the PGA Tour is entertainment, it is interested in selling advertising (to guess who, titleist maybe?) and nothing else. that is 100% their business and their motivation, advertising sales.

 

the USGA and the R&A are chartered with protecting the game of golf itself, not selling advertising.

TaylorMade 2017 M1 440 Speeder Evolution 757x
Titleist 917F3 13.5 Fuji Speeder Pro TS 84X
Mizuno MP4 3-P X100
SM7 50F 54M 58M S400
Bettinardi BB1
@protrajT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Our picks

    • Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 US Open
        • Like
      • 49 replies
    • 2024 US Open - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 US Open - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Edoardo Molinari - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Logan McAllister - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Bryan Kim - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Richard Mansell - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Jackson Buchanan - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Carter Jenkins - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Parker Bell - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Omar Morales - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Neil Shipley - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Casey Jarvis - WITB - 2024 US Open
      Carson Schaake - WITB - 2024 US Open
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       

      Tiger Woods on the range at Pinehurst on Monday – 2024 U.S. Open
      Newton Motion shaft - 2024 US Open
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 US Open
      New UST Mamiya Linq shaft - 2024 US Open

       

       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 5 replies
    • Titleist GT drivers - 2024 the Memorial Tournament
      Early in hand photos of the new GT2 models t the truck.  As soon as they show up on the range in player's bags we'll get some better from the top photos and hopefully some comparison photos against the last model.
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Thanks
        • Like
      • 287 replies
    • 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Monday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #1
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #2
      2024 Charles Schwab Challenge - Tuesday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Keith Mitchell - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Rafa Campos - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      R Squared - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Martin Laird - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Paul Haley - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Min Woo Lee - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Austin Smotherman - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Lee Hodges - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Sami Valimaki - WITB - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Eric Cole's newest custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      New Super Stroke Marvel comic themed grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Ben Taylor's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Tyler Duncan's Axis 1 putter - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cameron putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Chris Kirk's new Callaway Opus wedges - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      ProTC irons - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Dragon Skin 360 grips - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      Cobra prototype putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
      SeeMore putters - 2024 Charles Schwab Challenge
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 0 replies
    • 2024 PGA Championship - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put  any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 PGA Championship - Monday #1
       
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Michael Block - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Patrick Reed - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cam Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Brooks Koepka - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Josh Speight - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Takumi Kanaya - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kyle Mendoza - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Adrian Meronk - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jordan Smith - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jeremy Wells - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jared Jones - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      John Somers - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Larkin Gross - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Tracy Phillips - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Jon Rahm - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Keita Nakajima - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Kazuma Kobori - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      David Puig - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
      Ryan Van Velzen - WITB - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      Ping putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Bettinardi covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Cameron putter covers - 2024 PGA Championship
      Max Homa - Titleist 2 wood - 2024 PGA Championship
      Scotty Cameron experimental putter shaft by UST - 2024 PGA Championship
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 13 replies

×
×
  • Create New...