Has anyone actually improved?

[Your-away!]

There i am watching another Youtube golf video about a coach trying to improve someones swing and how difficult it is to implement the changes, ive heard and read numerous times about how difficult it was for Faldo to change his swing and how long it took.

 

So got me thinking is there anyone out there who has improved a ridiculous amount compared to how they used to be, i don't really mean someone new to the game and they improved their handicap by say 10 strokes within the first 12 months.

 

I'm thinking someone who has played for years at roughly a 15, then all of a sudden got to a 6 within 12 months.

 

And what changed?

[NEhomer]

I was a 21 handicap for many years and in just the past year I've gotten it down to a 2.

 

What changed?

 

I started cheating :tongue:

[ezpz]

I have not really seen people stuck at 15 go to a 6 in a year but dropping 4-5 shots is possible. It also depends on the impact the changes have on your game, if you play to a 15 by being short and crooked (the most common combination imo) swing changes can impact your scoring a lot.

 

Also keep in mind that a ton of pros benchmark your technique progress against swings of high level players/models/their own preference and even though this might be effective it can be very demotivating for the student because for the most part they will never reach these ideals, but to be a decent level player they don't really need to, they just need to not make the bad moves. Simple example would be the shallowing trend (yeah G), do you have to lay the club flat to play to a 5? No, does having the club completely steep during transition make it very difficult to play to a 5? Yes.

[MountainGoat]

There were two times in my life when I made huge progress. In both cases I was about 6 shots better overnight. The first was about 25 years ago when I switched to a balata ball. That ball was so fragile that you had to be careful how you hit it or it would get damaged. I found myself swinging a lot smoother and more under control. The second time I improved was when I started wearing contacts while I played. My game is very target-oriented, and I didn't realize how blind I had become. Beyond those two things, I don't think any mechanical correction I've ever gotten from a teaching pro has made the slightest bit of difference. In fact, those things always seem to send me off in the wrong direction.

 

Oh, wait a minute, there was a third time. I don't know how I managed to overlook this. It was the day I opened my stance. I had been using a plane trainer and discovered that the only way I could hit the ball smoothly while using it was to open my stance. Immediately after that small change I hit the ball so well that I've spent the last few years trying to figure out why it works.

[dg_1983]

5 to scratch in as many seasons

 

A lot of levels there

[Fireballer]

I never kept an official cap, but I improved immensely in a short period a few years ago when I finally learned a few things thanks to iteach, Monte, and Waldron.

 

1. How the arms really work

2. I have some arm over run. I need the intent if turning hips and shoulders deeper to keep in sync with my arms.

3.Dont pay attention to lower body on DS. Let it react to my arm intents.

 

This happened in a matter of months. I went from shooting 90 to 95, to routinely under 85. And I went from a 220 and fading off the tee to 260 carry and straight.

[Your-away!]

The reason i ask is if it takes someone like Nick Faldo over 2 years just to change his swing (god knows how many balls he hit) then how can anyone who maybe plays maybe once or twice a week and maybe practice a couple of times a week expect to improve.

 

My first handicap i got was 14, which i got in 2010, that came down to 12, that then went up to 16 (bad year in 2014 mainly) and i have now got that back down to 11 (these are all competition rounds)

 

but ive been around 11 for 2 years now, practice 3 times a week, play about 5 or 6 times a month and i just don't feel like i'm getting better, maybe i've reached my plateau, who knows.

 

The logical next step is lessons (never had one) but not too many pro's near me who i would trust, and ive got this far on my own, my big bug bear with golf coaches/Pro's is..i have never met any golfer ever, who has said "starting seeing coach X and ive improved so much" and i hear too many horror stories about coach's, and actually seen it with my own eyes when my dad had a lesson, im no pro but i know enough to know that so called pro didnt have a clue.

[Fireballer]

The reason i ask is if it takes someone like Nick Faldo over 2 years just to change his swing (god knows how many balls he hit) then how can anyone who maybe plays maybe once or twice a week and maybe practice a couple of times a week expect to improve.

 

My first handicap i got was 14, which i got in 2010, that came down to 12, that then went up to 16 (bad year in 2014 mainly) and i have now got that back down to 11 (these are all competition rounds)

 

but ive been around 11 for 2 years now, practice 3 times a week, play about 5 or 6 times a month and i just don't feel like i'm getting better, maybe i've reached my plateau, who knows.

 

The logical next step is lessons (never had one) but not too many pro's near me who i would trust, and ive got this far on my own, my big bug bear with golf coaches/Pro's is..i have never met any golfer ever, who has said "starting seeing coach X and ive improved so much" and i hear too many horror stories about coach's, and actually seen it with my own eyes when my dad had a lesson, im no pro but i know enough to know that so called pro didnt have a clue.

 

Send a video to Bobby Lopez at quickfixgolf.com. He does a free analysis.

[msena88]

My swing over the last 12 months has improved drastically through lessons, I still don't score as well as I should because frankly I have some mental issues with the putter at the moment.

 

I was in a similar position as you, my old swing was always going to have inconsistencies in strike in it which is why I don't think I was ever going to get much better than I was other than shaving a few strokes on/around the green.

 

To your point, while my swing has improved drastically there is still a lot of work left and I hit balls 4-5x a week and rehearse motions indoors when I don't and it still isn't there yet. I think that's why most people never significantly change their swing, it is a ton of work to do and understandably not worth it to a lot of people who play 18 a couple times a month. Then a lot of people who do decide to make the plunge abandon changes too quickly because of a lack of instant results (I've done this a number of times myself) or are getting bad instruction (done this one too).

 

For most of us, golf is just hard but thats why I love it.

[andrue]

A couple of times, perhaps. A few years back when I was mostly scoring in the 100s I started laying up at 100 yards rather than going for the green from further out and my scores dropped into the 90s within a couple of weeks. In fact since then I hardly ever score in the 100s.

 

Recently I've been fighting a driver/long club fade that was in danger of becoming a slice. I worked out one solution (putting the ball forward in my stance) but wasn't happy as I felt it was a band-aid to a fault. So I tried

. And this seems to have had a good effect so far. I've played twice since and I'm sending long clubs straighter, higher and further. Even my irons and wedges seem more accurate. Time will tell but last night I had the third best score ever at my club despite losing a ball into a rockery on the 18th. It's been a year since I last felt that confident with a club in my hand.

 

If that sticks (and I have all next week off work to reinforce it) then I think it will have knocked another 10 strokes off. I got my 84 last night despite forgetting to take any water with me and despite not preparing a snack so I played slightly dehydrated and without having eaten anything other than a Kiwi fruit since lunch. If I can now play that well on an empty stomach in the evening who knows how well I'll play during the day after a sensible breakfast?

[Your-away!]

The reason i ask is if it takes someone like Nick Faldo over 2 years just to change his swing (god knows how many balls he hit) then how can anyone who maybe plays maybe once or twice a week and maybe practice a couple of times a week expect to improve.

 

My first handicap i got was 14, which i got in 2010, that came down to 12, that then went up to 16 (bad year in 2014 mainly) and i have now got that back down to 11 (these are all competition rounds)

 

but ive been around 11 for 2 years now, practice 3 times a week, play about 5 or 6 times a month and i just don't feel like i'm getting better, maybe i've reached my plateau, who knows.

 

The logical next step is lessons (never had one) but not too many pro's near me who i would trust, and ive got this far on my own, my big bug bear with golf coaches/Pro's is..i have never met any golfer ever, who has said "starting seeing coach X and ive improved so much" and i hear too many horror stories about coach's, and actually seen it with my own eyes when my dad had a lesson, im no pro but i know enough to know that so called pro didnt have a clue.

 

Send a video to Bobby Lopez at quickfixgolf.com. He does a free analysis.

 

Heard so much about doing swing video's, particularly on here, but how can anyone give a lesson to someone without seeing actual ball data? or not being there in person?

[msena88]

A good instructor will know from your swing what your ball flight tendencies are but more importantly, the flaws in your swing will be more than clear enough on the tape. It honestly doesn't matter if you send in a swing where you duff it or one where you stripe it, your swing doesn't change much between those two shots. The major things wrong are there in both shots, you just got a good result out of one of them.

 

With all of that said, online instruction is certainly not for everyone and I ended up going to see my online instructor in person.

[SkiSchoolPro]

I do think improvement is possible, but sometimes it does not translate into better scores right away.

 

If you are a 15 who is inconsistent and sprays it around, then an improved swing may help right away assuming you can mentally handle going lower. OTOH, it might take longer to show up on the scorecard if you are a steady 15 with consistent, but less than ideal contact. Why? An improved swing will likely result in better contact and longer distance some of the time, but not always (at least at first). You may find that your best swings go over the flag instead of next to it. When you start taking less club, you might feel you need to swing hard which may undo much of your swing improvement.

 

I'd second the motion for video lessons if you don't trust the pros in your area. A good teacher should have you focus on 1 thing at first (but might also have some set up changes). I'd strongly recommend trying to practice your new move for at least 5 minutes a day. Hitting balls a few days a week might be fine if that is all you have time for, but try to rehearse your swing whenever you get the chance.

 

 

[dsmil]

I haven't improved in the last 10 years, and with young kids and responsibilities, I don't see myself improving for the next 10 years either. But watch out once I'm in my 40's!

[gregkeller]

The reason i ask is if it takes someone like Nick Faldo over 2 years just to change his swing (god knows how many balls he hit) then how can anyone who maybe plays maybe once or twice a week and maybe practice a couple of times a week expect to improve.

 

 

 

The way I see it is that Faldo had also ingrained his old swing with so many hundred of thousands of swings (maybe millions?) that it took a really long time to unlearn that swing and make the new one natural. Us amateur hacks on the other hand hit what, maybe a couple hundred balls a week during the season? For me a good week would be hitting 5-600 full shots at the range, and playing twice. That only happens a few weeks during the summer. For me my swing probably changes more from day to day than Faldo's did during his entire two year swing change. It would be much easier for me to incorporate a new swing change because I don't have such a huge amount of muscle memory built up.

 

That being said, I think that a 15-18 handicap would only see major improvements if they had a major swing flaw and put in dedicated work to fix it. I've seen some 15 caps that had glaring swing flaws that would be easily fixed with some focused work on things like setup/alignment/grip, but they don't practice enough or care enough (which is fine). I've also seen some 15 caps that have good swings, hit the ball a country mile, but 3 putt every green. Again, practice would fix it and lead to huge improvement. So I guess that's my way of saying yes, I think a 15-18 cap could drop 5-8 strokes in a short period of time if they wanted to spend time practicing the part of their game that was costing them the most strokes.

[SomedayScratch]

When I was in 10th grade, I was about a 4 or 5 handicap. Then my game imploded the following year and I was a complete mess. Probably was up to a 10 handicap or more. Since then been gradually figuring things out and now am a 1 or 2. It took dramatic changes -- strengthening my grip, shortening my swing considerably, improving my takeaway (still not good though), closing my stance, keeping my upper body back.... Its been a complete grind but the last couple years I've seen dramatic jumps.

[sixfootnick]

It's going to be extremely difficult to break through a plateau without videoing your swing or without lessons.

 

The problem with making swing changes yourself without seeing your swing is that you can make almost anything work for a little - just get the timing down at the range. Your swing feels great in practice, but it starts to fall apart during the round. Now do you need to practice more, or are you working on the wrong thing? Are you working on the cause of the problem or the side effect? You can waste so much time.

[bogeypro]

I went from about a 2 to +1 working on impact and low point in my swing.

[Brunzy]

I've improved immensely just by watching videos on chipping....I am a novice compared to everyone on here, as I only golf once per week.

 

learning the swing I need is the biggest problem I have, and being self taught hurts.

 

My oldest son is 8 and wants to start getting into golf, I will be paying for him to have lessons so I don't ruin him!

[juststeve]

Scoring is correlated with full swing ball striking but for players who have reached a minimum level of competence the correlation is not robust. Consider a fellow who averages 25 feet from the pin from 150 yards. He works on his ball striking and improves to average 20 feet from thew hole. That's a 20% improvement in ball striking but he won't realize a 20% improvement in scoring. Why? 2 reasons: 1) the most likely result from either 25 feet or 20 feet is two putts and the same total score from either distance. To make a significant difference in score one needs to hit the ball close enough to make the next putt. That is possible only for a very rare few golfers from full swing range. 2) Scoring depends on a host of other factors including full swing proficiency and putting, chipping, pitching, course management and a lost of other things. Improvement in those other areas often is reflected in better scoring.

 

Steve

[Your-away!]

I went from about a 2 to +1 working on impact and low point in my swing.

 

Which is basically what i'm working on, and have been for a while, with any club my only real miss is a thin, ive never been a big slicer or hooker of the ball so control has never really been an issue.

 

I'm always trying to feel like i'm "compressing" into the floor, which when i get right feels like i cant miss, but my old lower half move is difficult to change, and not sure if i have enough time to work on it so its completely natural

[Texsport]

Fastest way to improve your handicap dramatically is to learn and practice a good short game.

 

Texsport

[owu23]

My most significant improvement came when i moved from 7 to 2 in approx 2 months.

 

How did it happen? I literally stopped pounding balls on the driving range and spent 100% of my time at the short game area and bunkers.

To this day, i do not know why it happened but my best guess would be that i started striking the ball better due to a better tempo caused by hitting tons of pitch/chip shots. In doing so, my short game became automatic. Thus, an errant drive did not make as big of a difference.

 

I also stopped listening to people critiquing my swing.

 

Excessively pounding balls was a result of me joining a private club and trying to justify my membership :).

[Nard_S]

There are many people who can get to high single, there are few who can break below 5. At that level, full swing needs solidity that being a 10 does not necessarily require. To do that, probably is a Faldoesque feat of multiple years. I'm starting year 3, sub 5 only now seems in reach but it did not for past 2 years even though I played to 7-8 for many before that.

[larrybud]

I'm thinking someone who has played for years at roughly a 15, then all of a sudden got to a 6 within 12 months.

 

Absolutely. I was around a 12-15 in my 20s. In my 30s I started taking lessons, got down to 8-10. Around age 40 I got a decent short game which got me to a 6-7. Then had an instructor that got me from 6-2 in just a couple of months in 2009. Then I did a couple of video lessons with Monte about 3 years ago, shot my best score ever about a month later, and keep getting better. Qualified for a tournament last year which I never qualified for, won my club championship in 2015.

 

Handicap sneaks up this time of year because my good summer scores from last year are rolling off, then it will go back down to low 2s around july/august when conditions get better and winter rust wears out.

 

What changed? My swing, with lessons from guys that knew what they were doing. Believe me, I went to a LOT of guys who didn't know what they were doing. When I got down to 8-10 with an instructor, that's as far as he could take me.

 

BTW, I probably hit it 30 yards shorter now than I did 20 years ago.

[larrybud]

Fastest way to improve your handicap dramatically is to learn and practice a good short game.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Fastest way I improved was to hit more greens. Short game helped tighten things up, but going from hitting 5-6 greens to 9-10 was bar none the fastest improvement.

 

If you're hitting 3 off multiple tee boxes, or losing 3-4 balls a round elsewhere, shortgame isn't going to help much.

[juststeve]

Fastest way to improve your handicap dramatically is to learn and practice a good short game.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Fastest way I improved was to hit more greens. Short game helped tighten things up, but going from hitting 5-6 greens to 9-10 was bar none the fastest improvement.

 

If you're hitting 3 off multiple tee boxes, or losing 3-4 balls a round elsewhere, shortgame isn't going to help much.

 

Larrybud may disagree but Larrybud is wrong. Turning three shots into two shot, what the short game is all about, saves you a stroke whether your tee ball was out of bounds or not. He is right however that hitting 9-10 green per round would improve most players score, but how realistic is that? 10 per round approaches tour level performance. So yes, strike the ball like a tour player and score better. Duh.

 

Steve

[angler99]

Assuming you have some sort of decent swing you can repeat over and over, quit practicing the full swing so much and start working on chipping and putting. Then go play a ton. The first time I shot in the 70s, a lightbulb went off and I suddenly realized how to score on the course. It was a 78. The next four rounds were in the 70s, including my all time low of 75. I think once you wrap your mind around the fact that shooting 79 instead of 80 or 81 isn't that big of a difference, your scores start improving. Just an extra up and down or a solid birdie putt here and there. I think that practicing playing real rounds is super important and overlooked by a lot of 12-15 handicaps.

[Double Gee]

Lessons are fine providing you reinforce it with hours on the range and a few hundred balls.

A lesson may help short term but generally speaking it's money wasted, if you're not serious enough.

 

[Texsport]

Fastest way to improve your handicap dramatically is to learn and practice a good short game.

 

Couldn't disagree more. Fastest way I improved was to hit more greens. Short game helped tighten things up, but going from hitting 5-6 greens to 9-10 was bar none the fastest improvement. Additionally, quit hitting drivers off tees. Hit fairway woods or even irons - lay up and get it in the hole with a good short game. (This is exactly how older good players continue to score when they lose distance off the tees and fairways)

 

If you're hitting 3 off multiple tee boxes, or losing 3-4 balls a round elsewhere, shortgame isn't going to help much.

 

Couldn't disagree more!

 

The fastest way to improve is with short game improvement - way faster than trying to rebuild a swing, which cant be done quickly.

 

Never have I seen a hacker with a good short game!

 

Count the number of strokes tee to green vs shots around the greens. How many 3 and 4 putts, how many times did you get it up and down from around the green.

 

Regarding lessons - just because some guy at the driving range calls himself a pro is meaningless. First test is to ask him to hit shots for demonstration. Ask for straight, draw, fade, high and low shots. If he cant do it - move on.

 

Texsport