Anchoring Rule basically dead

[Ignatius Reilly]

[

Not that the Tour would be able to do anything about it, but those players would have more than this offseason to work on it, I'd think. That is interesting, though.

 

The tour can do whatever they want. They choose to play by USGA Rules. There's nothing stopping them, other than tradition, from imposing a ban.

 

I don't think you are correct in that.

 

Why not?

 

I think their "no shorts" rule is not in the RoG.

 

That's not saying it would be an easy thing to sell to their members/owners/clients.

[Vindog]

No shorts is not a USGA condition of competition, nor is is a USGA local rule. It is a dress code outside the scope of the game.

[Ignatius Reilly]

No shorts is not a USGA condition of competition, nor is is a USGA local rule. It is a dress code outside the scope of the game.

 

I know that, and it was kinda my point.

 

Why can't they make a "here's how you gotta putt" rule code?

 

Not saying it would be a good idea, just thinking out loud about the technical possibilities.

 

Thinking on it some more, it would be outrageously stupid and hard to monitor (somewhat like the current rule, if the arguments here are anything to go by) whereas "no shorts" is pretty straightforward (although I have no idea how capris are affected (and I don't want to know!)).

[rockinar]

Problem isn't the rule. Problem is that they allow putters that long.

 

 

Long putters have been around since 1920's. How long has your driver made with rare unobtainium, squirted full of hot melt, tungsten internal weighting, external adjustable Y&X axis tungsten weight system, and wrench adjustable loft and lie hosel mechanism been around???

[rockinar]

Still nobody anchored....

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

No shorts is not a USGA condition of competition, nor is is a USGA local rule. It is a dress code outside the scope of the game.

 

[

Not that the Tour would be able to do anything about it, but those players would have more than this offseason to work on it, I'd think. That is interesting, though.

 

The tour can do whatever they want. They choose to play by USGA Rules. There's nothing stopping them, other than tradition, from imposing a ban.

 

I don't think you are correct in that.

 

Why not?

 

I think their "no shorts" rule is not in the RoG.

 

That's not saying it would be an easy thing to sell to their members/owners/clients.

 

I'm 100% correct. Have you never heard talks about bifurcation in terms of the golf ball?

 

Why do you propose the PGA Tour is forced to play by USGA rules?

[Golfer4Life]

I don’t like anchoring or the idea that someone may be doing it. It is a ridiculous rule and they should get rid of it. They still have to make the putt and Adam Scott showed many times that even anchoring the putter is not a guaranteed.

[Vindog]

I'm 100% correct. Have you never heard talks about bifurcation in terms of the golf ball?

 

Why do you propose the PGA Tour is forced to play by USGA rules?

 

I thought it had to do with something stemming from the PING lawsuit/settlement. Of course I could be wrong

[KirkNo-yes]

I think it's ridiculous for ANYONE who is not standing on the green next to someone using a long putter to claim they KNOW they are cheating. their hand can touch their shirt, just not their body. I've said this in other long putter threads. A close close friend of mine (who is now CT eligible) has played with and known Bernhard Langer for 25+ years and has said EMPHATICALLY that if anyone thinks that BL is cheating then they are fools, this is one of the most honest men who has ever walked the earth and would never even come close to breaking the rule. He just wouldn't do it. I was never a big BL fan as he was a Ryder Cup killer (outside of Kiawah when he was full on in the throws of his putting struggles) but I have come to love the man. He isn't pretty, nothing about his game is sexy except his scores and trophies. He is a tinkerer, he is a guy who likes to goof around with his clubs and plays WHAT WORKS. have you ever seen the mans bag?!? it's like WXR's dream. the dude single handedly has kept the lead tape industry in business too. But more than anything I've read about the man he is, the life he leads and the honest life has. He is a tremendous father to his kids, a phenomenal husband to his wife and from all accounts by men I KNOW have played with him a person who plays the game honestly. He isn't breaking the rule or in my mind the spirit of the rule. There is literally no rule that can be made that is fair to all sides. Like someone else mentioned earlier, if it was so wonderful EVERYONE would be buying one and putting that way. I tried it once and think I doubled my putt count for a round. It was comical, and I was actually TRYING. The rule was made for the reason that was stated above, because the USGA saw a trend in the way juniors were being taught and didn't like it. The BELLY putter is what drove this rule to be written. Like someone else said, the ONLY way to make it fair across the board would be to make everyone putt with the exact same style of putter head, no design changes. the same reason DJ, Tiger, Rory and all other players in life bounce between STYLES of putters can add the same advantages in Strokes gained as someone putting with a long putter. Hell, Adam Scott isn't winning every tournament he enters since going back the last time I checked so it can't be THAT great. Personally I'd rather beat someone using every "advantage" they can find to try and beat me instead of beating someone who is limited by something that seems arbitrary. Long putters are not currently ruining nor WILL they ruin the game. Drivers going farther and balls being more like small ICBM's are what will make this game unwatchable.

[clinkinfo]

I don't know about Adam Scott as I didn't notice when I saw him at the Open

 

Go ahead and watch the video in the link in the OP. Sure as heck looks like he's anchoring there.

 

 

It looks like both of them anchor at times. It's very hard to tell.

 

It should never have been banned. Like others have said, if it was such a universal advantage, everyone would do it, and every tournament would have been won by someone anchoring.

 

It's clearly not a universal advantage, hence there should NEVER have been something to stop it. It's just comfortable for some and not others.

[Shilgy]

Watched a wee bit of the Champions event this week. Had really good angle on McCarron a few times. He addresses now in a manner that leaves no doubt he is NOT anchoring. He moves his hands away until you can see daylight away from chest and then moves back just a bit to where he is clearly barely touching shirt.

[just plain bill]

it just doesnt look like a 'swing' to me...just my 2 cents...

[bigred90gt]

I simply don't understand how the club being anchored to your forearm isn't considered anchoring. "Armlock", please.

As long as the entire putter moves, as it does in both the traditional stroke and the arm lock method, there is NO anchoring. The following pictorial guide should help: https://www.golfdigest.com/gallery/photos-anchoring-rule

 

Apparently, no one actually watches anyone who knows how to use a broomstick putter actually use it. The putter is not swung in a pendulum motion. That would require holding the butt end of the club in one place with the left hand (for a righty), keeping the shoulders level, not rotating the upper body and rocking the shoulders, but instead moving the putter back by pulling on it with the right arm and moving it through by pushing it with the right arm.

 

If you actually watch anyone who knows how to putt use a long putter, they hold the putter still, and rock their shoulders twisting their upper body just as you do with a traditional putter. The only difference is the length and the way you grip it. The entire putter moves in the stroke. In order to keep the butt end still, they would have to rotate around their sternum, causing their back to come forward toward the target on the backstroke and back away from the target on the through stroke. They don’t do that. They rotate around their spine, as all good players do, so the sternum changes positions in the stroke, as does the entire length of the putter.

 

So no, it is not a pendulum motion, which would be counterproductive to a golf stroke. The club is not swinging about a fixed point. Even when the top hand is planted into the sternum, the entire putter is still moving.

 

Feel free to watch BL, AS, or anyone else you see on tour who can actually putt and show me otherwise. I’ve never seen it.

[Golfer4Life]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

[Vindog]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

[Golfer4Life]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Best post! Lol....

[bscinstnct]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Haha!

 

VinDiesel dog ; )

 

 

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Haha!

 

VinDiesel dog ; )

 

Two guys who think they're importan (but aren't); one is killing the Sr. Tour because he's agonizingly boring to watch and the other, well, nobody cares about. A.K.A. The Anchor Bros.

 

The most interesting thing about Scott McCarron is he accused Phil of cheating. He couldn't even stick with that though...

[Golfjack]

I think it's ridiculous for ANYONE who is not standing on the green next to someone using a long putter to claim they KNOW they are cheating. their hand can touch their shirt, just not their body. I've said this in other long putter threads. A close close friend of mine (who is now CT eligible) has played with and known Bernhard Langer for 25+ years and has said EMPHATICALLY that if anyone thinks that BL is cheating then they are fools, this is one of the most honest men who has ever walked the earth and would never even come close to breaking the rule. He just wouldn't do it. I was never a big BL fan as he was a Ryder Cup killer (outside of Kiawah when he was full on in the throws of his putting struggles) but I have come to love the man. He isn't pretty, nothing about his game is sexy except his scores and trophies. He is a tinkerer, he is a guy who likes to goof around with his clubs and plays WHAT WORKS. have you ever seen the mans bag?!? it's like WXR's dream. the dude single handedly has kept the lead tape industry in business too. But more than anything I've read about the man he is, the life he leads and the honest life has. He is a tremendous father to his kids, a phenomenal husband to his wife and from all accounts by men I KNOW have played with him a person who plays the game honestly. He isn't breaking the rule or in my mind the spirit of the rule. There is literally no rule that can be made that is fair to all sides. Like someone else mentioned earlier, if it was so wonderful EVERYONE would be buying one and putting that way. I tried it once and think I doubled my putt count for a round. It was comical, and I was actually TRYING. The rule was made for the reason that was stated above, because the USGA saw a trend in the way juniors were being taught and didn't like it. The BELLY putter is what drove this rule to be written. Like someone else said, the ONLY way to make it fair across the board would be to make everyone putt with the exact same style of putter head, no design changes. the same reason DJ, Tiger, Rory and all other players in life bounce between STYLES of putters can add the same advantages in Strokes gained as someone putting with a long putter. Hell, Adam Scott isn't winning every tournament he enters since going back the last time I checked so it can't be THAT great. Personally I'd rather beat someone using every "advantage" they can find to try and beat me instead of beating someone who is limited by something that seems arbitrary. Long putters are not currently ruining nor WILL they ruin the game. Drivers going farther and balls being more like small ICBM's are what will make this game unwatchable.

 

BL gets very close to anchoring, but he doesn't. To say he doesn't even get close is a bit strange. Even he says he anchors the practice then separates for the actual. He doesn't break the rules, nor does anyone using a long putter now, but some do toe the line.

 

I don't like the rule where it can touch the shirt. It's quite clear they could have written the rule better, but are choosing not to change anything since I guess it doesn't really make a difference. If it's such an advantage then everyone should be anchoring.

[bscinstnct]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Haha!

 

VinDiesel dog ; )

 

Two guys who think they're importan (but aren't); one is killing the Sr. Tour because he's agonizingly boring to watch and the other, well, nobody cares about. A.K.A. The Anchor Bros.

 

The most interesting thing about Scott McCarron is he accused Phil of cheating. He couldn't even stick with that though...

 

[Vindog]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Haha!

 

VinDiesel dog ; )

 

Two guys who think they're importan (but aren't); one is killing the Sr. Tour because he's agonizingly boring to watch and the other, well, nobody cares about. A.K.A. The Anchor Bros.

 

The most interesting thing about Scott McCarron is he accused Phil of cheating. He couldn't even stick with that though...

 

There's an awful lot of threads about two unimportant guys. :dntknw:

[nbg352]

The intent was clear - get rid of the long putters where the hands are apart. The execution was horrible - pretty much on par with the NFL's execution of a catch.

 

Make the putter the shortest club in the bag. I suppose then you might be able to anchor against your leg, but good luck with that.

 

If they have the guts to eliminate green reading books, they should have the guts to make the putter rule really work the way they want it to and close the loopholes.

That was not their intent at all.

[MadGolfer76]

Problem isn't the rule. Problem is that they allow putters that long.

 

 

Long putters have been around since 1920's. How long has your driver made with rare unobtainium, squirted full of hot melt, tungsten internal weighting, external adjustable Y&X axis tungsten weight system, and wrench adjustable loft and lie hosel mechanism been around???

 

Gee, that line of reasoning just never occurred to me. ;)

 

My response would be that they have been ridiculed for almost as long. I would also point out in your post that you imply there is an advantage to playing the longer putters. At least, that is how I read it.

[ClintDagger]

The intent was clear - get rid of the long putters where the hands are apart. The execution was horrible - pretty much on par with the NFL's execution of a catch.

 

Make the putter the shortest club in the bag. I suppose then you might be able to anchor against your leg, but good luck with that.

 

If they have the guts to eliminate green reading books, they should have the guts to make the putter rule really work the way they want it to and close the loopholes.

That was not their intent at all.

If you go back and read the articles that led up to the eventual new rule you see virtually nothing about the long wands being mentioned by the people who were being quoted from the USGA and R&A. They continually mention what was happening in the junior ranks and it was obvious what they had a problem with was the optics of a tour that 5-10 years from that point might have the belly putter as a prevalent method of putting. In fact Shackelford even said he was privately hearing that exact word, optics, being used a lot. I think the rules orgs have never liked anchored putting of any kind but tolerated it because it was almost a sideshow used by a relatively few. When it showed signs of being a trend or worse the norm they decided to intervene. I’m sure they hate that some guys found ways to keep the long wand in the bag but they will live with it. It will probably be virtually out of the game in 10 years anyways.

[sixtysevensixtyseven]

Did I mentioned I dislike the comedy couple of Langer & McCarron?

 

How about the News show McCarron and Langer.

 

A show with 2 anchormen!

 

Haha!

 

VinDiesel dog ; )

 

Two guys who think they're importan (but aren't); one is killing the Sr. Tour because he's agonizingly boring to watch and the other, well, nobody cares about. A.K.A. The Anchor Bros.

 

The most interesting thing about Scott McCarron is he accused Phil of cheating. He couldn't even stick with that though...

 

There's an awful lot of threads about two unimportant guys. :dntknw:

 

And dozens of people watching them on TV.

[Vindog]

The intent was clear - get rid of the long putters where the hands are apart. The execution was horrible - pretty much on par with the NFL's execution of a catch.

 

Make the putter the shortest club in the bag. I suppose then you might be able to anchor against your leg, but good luck with that.

 

If they have the guts to eliminate green reading books, they should have the guts to make the putter rule really work the way they want it to and close the loopholes.

That was not their intent at all.

 

Yeah the intent was to stop anchoring. If their intent was to so something else, then they would have done just that at the time, or again having a second chance during the Rules "modernization".

 

People are over stating the "shortest club in the bag" effectiveness, and just regurgitating a talking point without thinking. Hold your shortest wedge upright and you'll see that it comes up higher than you'd think, and definitely high enough to anchor or appear to anchor.

[BNGL]

None, however, it's like replacing the ball perfectly on the green after you've marked it. Mickelson took that one on and said he knows of a lot of guys who don't perfectly replace the ball on the green to avoid imperfections. I would be willing to bet that if you could get one of the long putter guys to be honest they would say at one point they anchored. It probably wasn't intentional but I would bet that they have done it.

 

I really think that if a rule is so hard to enforce and doesn't really prove to be an advantage they should get rid of it. This one is sort of in that realm but there are ways to fix it.

 

It's evident that you have little or no referee experience. There are several Rules which cannot be successfully managed from the comfort of your easy chair. R14-1b is only one of them. The ruling bodies and the pro tours seemingly have no difficulty with R14-1b.

 

I thought we were talking about the anchoring rule here?

 

I've actually got a lot of Officiating experience. I was formerly a PGA Class A-1 and I've been on a lot of Rules Committees including USGA Qualifiers.

 

If you want to have an overall rules discussion that's fine but I thought we were just addressing this one.

 

 

[Vindog]

None, however, it's like replacing the ball perfectly on the green after you've marked it. Mickelson took that one on and said he knows of a lot of guys who don't perfectly replace the ball on the green to avoid imperfections. I would be willing to bet that if you could get one of the long putter guys to be honest they would say at one point they anchored. It probably wasn't intentional but I would bet that they have done it.

 

I really think that if a rule is so hard to enforce and doesn't really prove to be an advantage they should get rid of it. This one is sort of in that realm but there are ways to fix it.

 

It's evident that you have little or no referee experience. There are several Rules which cannot be successfully managed from the comfort of your easy chair. R14-1b is only one of them. The ruling bodies and the pro tours seemingly have no difficulty with R14-1b.

 

I thought we were talking about the anchoring rule here?

 

I've actually got a lot of Officiating experience. I was formerly a PGA Class A-1 and I've been on a lot of Rules Committees including USGA Qualifiers.

 

If you want to have an overall rules discussion that's fine but I thought we were just addressing this one.

 

 

 

That and 14-1b is the anchoring rule.

[SurfDuffer]

As far as I'm concerned if your top hand is even making contact with your clothing you are anchoring. Its a reference point to synch everything up. I realize that's not how the rule is written.....but that's how it should be.

[Mikeski]

As far as I'm concerned if your top hand is even making contact with your clothing you are anchoring. Its a reference point to synch everything up. I realize that's not how the rule is written.....but that's how it should be.

 

The hand isn't the only thing that needs to be anchored. The butt of the club can be anchored. Hence the belly putter.

 

That being said, if you are using a conventional putter and your shirt isn't tucked in and you bend over to putt and your top hand or the butt of the grip makes contact with your shirt during the stroke are you are anchoring?

When I use a conventional putter and putt cross handed my right forearm is tight to my body/shirt and the butt of the grip hits my shirt during the stroke. Is that anchoring?

If you use a 36-38" putter and the butt of the putter makes contact with your shirt or hits your gut when you bend over to putt is that anchoring?

Or is it just if the person is using a long putter that your comment pertains to?

 

I know, I need to tuck my shirt in and loose the beer belly.