MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[FAbb]

The AVX isn't a great fit for my traj. It doesn't allow me to hit my windows like the V1 does.

[HighBoomingDraws]

any one and done folks out there, picks close tomorrow morning early. Match play is Wednesday-Sunday.

[FAbb]

Sunday was actually an interesting data point for short game stuff I've been considering. When I learned to play, and started developing a really strong short game, I played my stock shots around the greens with the ball off my back foot, and an open stance. I drifted away from that in the past 5-6 years, I think starting with watching Dan Carraher's short game series where basically everything is played with a square, or sometimes closed stance (bunkers, flops), and the ball well forward. Watching Phil the Thrill evangelize his short game principles on IG inspired me to experiment with my old technique. I went to the short game lab (the basement), and hit varying length chips and pitches. Nice and crisp, and actually not terribly difficult to vary traj a bit, just using clubface. Fast forward to Sunday, and I figure why not give it a run on the course. Now I didn't get up and down 100% of the time, but considering I had about 20 minutes of chipping under my belt all winter, it was a sensational performance. I had a bunch of kick-ins. I'm going to be interested to do some more experimentation with it early this season.

[gregh729]

I was reading Butch Harmon's article about chipping on the plane coming back from Florida. He was saying he is teaching a square stance now. I am going to try that if I ever get out to play again. I tend to open my shoulders when I open my stance and hit a cut chip. Spins like a mofo, but I am very inconsistent. I need to find a technique that produces the same shot everytime with little or no practice

[gregh729]

the dirty word censor is working now. Who knew you couldn't say mo(f)o

[TheCityGame]

Chipping : the Sieckman book I read this winter, he prefers open stance. I prefer open stance. I also think that in NO POSSIBLE SENSE of the word "correct" is there actually a correct short game technique.

 

The match play has some interesting match-ups (this is ignoring the pool implications)

Group 12 : Jason Day, Henrik Stenson, Phil Mick, Jim Furyk <---dayum

Of course Tiger gives this some juice and has some interesting matches

Group 13 : Tiger, Cantplay, Sneds, Aaron Wise

14 : Finau, Poulters, Kisner, Mitchell. A few of these guys have been playing great.

15 : Bubba, Spieth (who says he's "very close" by the way), Horse-hole and "Nah".

 

Fleetwood and Oostie could be a good match.

 

Pool wise : my initial pick was going to be the Barnrat. I really want him. He's in a group with Bryson (who is playing this for the first time) and Leishman (who doesn't have a good record in it) and Knox, who has never gotten out of group. I'm not totally off him, but I'm not sure.

 

[FAbb]

You know what else the ball back technique is great for? WHEN IT RAINS MORE THAN AN INCH 14 TIMES A YEAR. That's something (I think) City started an entire thread on. There's a point, which we've far exceeded, when the ground gets so soft, that the "use the bounce" method starts feeling very difficult to control. Like you've got to play shots with a ton of speed, because the club loses so much energy when it hits the turf. I don't want to be taking big old swings all over the place. The ball back just requires so much less energy, and unless you're really terrible at controlling low point on a chip swing, you're gonna get the ball first.

[SullGolf]

I plan to work on the ball back a bit more this year. Maybe not to make it my main shot, but at least to practice and see how ball flight and contact change. You don’t necessarily need to open the stance to do that.

[FAbb]

There's definitely a part of me that wants to pick Oostie, but that would mean picking against my man crush, Tommy Fleetwood. Oostie was the other guy I was high on firing last week, but we ended up with Sungjae.

[HighBoomingDraws]

We’ve been having spritited debate on how to chip out of wet clumpy generally bad lies amongst the Woodmore group for months now. Tex is firmly in the “use the bounce!” camp while some of us have resorted to using the “woodmore wedge” when possible AKA a hybrid.

[TheCityGame]

It's easy to get the ball before the turf no matter where you place the ball.

But you still need to guard against blading it.

As far as I'm concerned there's no fool proof technique. When the turf is firm and when lies are fluffier (to an extent), there's more wiggle room. Any move you make that guards against thinning it is going to increase the chances of fatting it, and vice versa. it's just that you can cheat a little more towards the fat shot when the lie is looser and the turf is firmer.

[FAbb]

> @HighBoomingDraws said:

> We’ve been having spritited debate on how to chip out of wet clumpy generally bad lies amongst the Woodmore group for months now. Tex is firmly in the “use the bounce!” camp while some of us have resorted to using the “woodmore wedge” when possible AKA a hybrid.

 

I had a few of those really scrubby lies on Sunday - sitting on dirt/sand, with grass around. I grabbed the PW, set up with it really toe down, and played the ball back. Those shots where you're sitting on bare, soft ground are really tough to feel good about.

[thechief16]

> @HighBoomingDraws said:

> We’ve been having spritited debate on how to chip out of wet clumpy generally bad lies amongst the Woodmore group for months now. Tex is firmly in the “use the bounce!” camp while some of us have resorted to using the “woodmore wedge” when possible AKA a hybrid.

 

I'm down with Tex on this one. Over the winter I committed to going back to the Monte UTB method and my one round (yes, small sample size), soaking wet, I was consistently good (I think 5/7 inside 8 feet). The one lie it doesn't seem to work as well on is wet/soft/tight.

[GooseHook]

> @HighBoomingDraws said:

> We’ve been having spritited debate on how to chip out of wet clumpy generally bad lies amongst the Woodmore group for months now. Tex is firmly in the “use the bounce!” camp while some of us have resorted to using the “woodmore wedge” when possible AKA a hybrid.

 

One of the shots that Monte taught our clinic group a few years ago has worked out well in these situations, and really dense rough lies.

 

closed stance, face pointed at the target, ball back in stance. It's a short, jabby motion of a chip but if you give enough roll out room it's controllable and gets the ball reliably out of the crappy lies.

 

Short sided winter lies, it's a good time to experiment .

[HighBoomingDraws]

Yea there’s always a bunch of different ways to skin this cat. On the flip side, butterycut employs this technique where he picks it just right with the leading edge, and is actually taking little divots with his strike no more than 5 yards off the green. Comes out high and extremely spiny. When I see him pull that ish off time and time again I know I have a lot of work ahead of me to get that good.

[gsrjc]

 

Wow. 3 hours long.

[SullGolf]

3 hours? Good lawd.

[gsrjc]

> @"Johnny T" said:

> > @FAbb said:

> > More thoughts on the 2019 Pro V1 tomorrow morning.

>

> Can we get an AVX review too?

 

I didn't like the AVX ball compared to prov1x. It felt actually like the NXT ball. The distance wasn't nearly as good as the AVX and it didn't spin at all with short irons.

[gsrjc]

> @SullGolf said:

> 3 hours? Good lawd.

Adult diaper time for those with small bladders.

[TheCityGame]

Use the bounce is nice, and I know Monte makes it versatile, but you need to step back and think about it, too.

 

If you have a lot of bounce off a tight, firm lie you can absolutely get that leading edge into the ball. The bounce actually keeps the club up high. Especially if you tend to be a bit shallow where the club is more likely to deflect.

 

On the other hand, if you're a little bit steep and off a "good lie", you're using the bounce to keep yourself from getting fat, that same swing can hurt you in wet conditions. You're used to the bounce bailing you out, but when it's as soft as it has been for the past year, the club will just sink in and your fatness will hurt you.

 

You can't just say "use the bounce" on everything. You can't just say "get a high bounce" wedge for everything. It has to do with the conditions (as most wedge mongers recognize) but it also has a lot to do with your technique (which is too often ignored).

 

Short game is also one of those things where Player A is great and has a certain technique and he goes, "well, I'm great so this technique is correct, and you should use it". But, Player B is also great and and has a different technique and he goes, "well, I'm great so this technique is correct, and you should use it".

 

Often overlooked is the major commonality between the two players : TOTG.

 

(time on the grass).

 

 

[FAbb]

> @gsrjc said:

> I didn't like the AVX ball compared to prov1x. It felt actually like the NXT ball. The distance wasn't nearly as good as the AVX and it didn't spin at all with short irons.

 

The AVX and V1X are polar opposite ends of the spectrum, so it's not surprising you'd have a strong preference between the two.

 

You know who would be a great candidate for the AVX? PQ. If you're lurking, PQ, try dat AVX tho.

 

 

[baddomes]

It's 90% technique, 10% equipment.

 

I have a 58-14 K Grind that I can get under on the tightest lies. I used to worry about blading it but I worked hard on contact to the point where it's not an issue anymore.

[SullGolf]

The point of "use the bounce" isn't to actually bounce it off the turf. It's to have some protection if you do hit it fat. There's no reason you can't still clip it clean when the conditions get moist. I don't really know how to do that well because my short game stinks and I don't have TOTG. I'll hit it fat no matter how far forward or backward I put the ball.

 

[gsrjc]

> @FAbb said:

> > @gsrjc said:

> > I didn't like the AVX ball compared to prov1x. It felt actually like the NXT ball. The distance wasn't nearly as good as the AVX and it didn't spin at all with short irons.

>

> The AVX and V1X are polar opposite ends of the spectrum, so it's not surprising you'd have a strong preference between the two.

>

> You know who would be a great candidate for the AVX? PQ. If you're lurking, PQ, try dat AVX tho.

>

>

Ahh i see. But didn't Titleist advertise the ball to in between the PROV1s and the Tour soft ball so i figured distance would be better but just a tad firmer ball.

 

[gsrjc]

> @baddomes said:

> It's 90% technique, 10% equipment.

>

> I have a 58-14 K Grind that I can get under on the tightest lies. I used to worry about blading it but I worked hard on contact to the point where it's not an issue anymore.

I agree... i worked hard to get to where i don't blade it. I still do at times if i don't keep my head still. i have edel wedges so they have tons of bounce which i needed as i'm steep.

 

No idea how to combine quotes so forgive the back to back posts.

[TheCityGame]

> @SullGolf said:

> The point of "use the bounce" isn't to actually bounce it off the turf.

 

Obviously, but it can happen. The point I was trying to make is that in certain conditions, with certain swings, too much bounce (and too much of a UTB swing) can hurt you. And the "protection" if you do hit it fat is lessened when it's wet, or fluffy. The guy that has honed a good UTB technique is going to be at a disadvantage in certain conditions (and on certain lies) to a guy who chops down on it a little more and is more ball first.

 

UTB isn't the truth. It's just a good technique, but some people get dogmatic about it without ever having thought it through.

 

 

[TheCityGame]

> @baddomes said:

> It's 90% technique, 10% equipment.

>

> I have a 58-14 K Grind that I can get under on the tightest lies. I used to worry about blading it but I worked hard on contact to the point where it's not an issue anymore.

 

Yeah a higher bounce with a specific grind can still get under it. The F-grind on my 54º is versatile. I de-bagged my 60º, mostly because I didn't like the grind on it. I still might go back to a 60º/04º like I used to play. I need to see what conditions and greens get like out at the course this year.

[baddomes]

In my experience, the best way to practice pitches with good contact is off a driving range mat.

[2moreTerps]

there IS one absolute rule of short game play: the lie can dictate the shot you have to play. I'm not saying the lie DOES dictate the shot you play. I'm saying the lie CAN dictate the shot you play. If it does, you gotta be able to pull it off.

 

[eagle1997]

> @2moreTerps said:

> there IS one absolute rule of short game play: the lie can dictate the shot you have to play. I'm not saying the lie DOES dictate the shot you play. I'm saying the lie CAN dictate the shot you play. If it does, you gotta be able to pull it off.

>

 

and water CAN make you wet. i'm not saying it WILL make you wet. i'm saying it CAN.

 

the possibility exists that water, somehow, someway, may indeed make you wet.

 

that's an absolute rule.