2018 Northern Trust at Ridgewood CC

[redfirebird08]

Come on guys. Its the 6 inches between Tigers ears thats the problem. Hes lost that unshakeable confidence. Its what gets them all in time. Before, he KNEW he was the best, now hes not sure. Time gets you.

 

Maybe so...or maybe just a bad week on the greens. It happens to everyone. DJ missed the cut at The Open for crying out loud.

[TreyWingbat]

who's this Koepka guy???? he's pretty good

 

He's not too well known, but he does have 1 regular Tour win.

[Marco]

35 putts for tiger today

 

16 greens, missed 3 fairways

[stanger37]

who's this Koepka guy???? he's pretty good

 

He's not too well known, but he does have 1 regular Tour win.

 

also may know him from his linebacker days

[King_Slender]

DJ is out of his mind - 2 triple bogeys and he's only 2 off the lead.

[redfirebird08]

DJ is out of his mind - 2 triple bogeys and he's only 2 off the lead.

 

So he could be -14 right now pretty easily. lol crazy stuff from DJ.

[King_Slender]

DJ is out of his mind - 2 triple bogeys and he's only 2 off the lead.

 

So he could be -14 right now pretty easily. lol crazy stuff from DJ.

 

And one of those triples was on a Par 5.

[Londoner]

Come on guys. Its the 6 inches between Tigers ears thats the problem. Hes lost that unshakeable confidence. Its what gets them all in time. Before, he KNEW he was the best, now hes not sure. Time gets you.

 

Maybe so...or maybe just a bad week on the greens. It happens to everyone. DJ missed the cut at The Open for crying out loud.

who knows, but wasnt he recently 148 out of 148 from 4 ft? I cant remember where i saw the stat. Sky probably.

[TreyWingbat]

DJ was told to make a few triples to keep it close, and not run away with things for his 20th victory.

[redfirebird08]

Come on guys. Its the 6 inches between Tigers ears thats the problem. Hes lost that unshakeable confidence. Its what gets them all in time. Before, he KNEW he was the best, now hes not sure. Time gets you.

 

Maybe so...or maybe just a bad week on the greens. It happens to everyone. DJ missed the cut at The Open for crying out loud.

who knows, but wasnt he recently 148 out of 148 from 4 ft? I cant remember where i saw the stat. Sky probably.

 

Surely not this season. He had plenty of putting troubles earlier in the year.

[bscinstnct]

Today might have been the worst I’ve ever seen tiger putt

 

Bad read. But he hit it where he wanted.

 

 

[bucky316]

Brooks has a shot at winning this one. Looks rock soild. Tiger couldn't putt his way out of a wet paper bag this week. Go back to the Scotty or get a new one handmade.

Nice to see Adam Scott playing well again.

 

Brooks seems to be thinking, I'll show you I can win regular tournaments too.

 

Dustin is thinking it's best 17 out of 18.

 

Good week for the Ryder Cup hopefuls so far: Bryson, Phil, Cantlay and Finau all doing well.

I recall a Koepka interview when he said first he's a competitor then a golfer..... IMHO he's got a huge chip on his shoulder for this lack of respect nonsense & he's proving that he responds very well to this

[Londoner]

Come on guys. Its the 6 inches between Tigers ears thats the problem. Hes lost that unshakeable confidence. Its what gets them all in time. Before, he KNEW he was the best, now hes not sure. Time gets you.

 

Maybe so...or maybe just a bad week on the greens. It happens to everyone. DJ missed the cut at The Open for crying out loud.

who knows, but wasnt he recently 148 out of 148 from 4 ft? I cant remember where i saw the stat. Sky probably.

 

Surely not this season. He had plenty of putting troubles earlier in the year.

Not sure, one of those "seem to remember" things. I wil try and check.

[Londoner]

Come on guys. Its the 6 inches between Tigers ears thats the problem. Hes lost that unshakeable confidence. Its what gets them all in time. Before, he KNEW he was the best, now hes not sure. Time gets you.

Maybe so...or maybe just a bad week on the greens. It happens to everyone. DJ missed the cut at The Open for crying out loud.

who knows, but wasnt he recently 148 out of 148 from 4 ft? I cant remember where i saw the stat. Sky probably.

Surely not this season. He had plenty of putting troubles earlier in the year.

Not sure, one of those "seem to remember" things. I wil try and check.

Put that on hold, I cant find a verification at present. Apologies if it turns out to be fake news.

[MountainGoat]

There's a lot of talk about how important the fall Tour events are, and that guys really need to play in those events if they hope to do well in the FedEx Cup. Well, if things stand the way they are now, Jamie Lovemark would move up 82 places from 86th to 4th based on this one event alone. Adam Scott would move up 55 places. Sounds like the real strategy is to just make the initial 125 man field and hope to do well at the end of the season when point values soar.

[TreyWingbat]

Yeah, I've always been amazed by how much they can move up in the playoffs. I know the winner gets 4 times the points, as they are trying to emphasize it being the playoffs.

 

In hockey and basketball, there are 82 regular season games, then 4 playoff rounds to win-it-all. If you average a 5-game series in the playoffs, that equates to 20 games, which is a quarter of the regular season, so the Fed Ex points distribution makes sense from that viewpoint, but it does seem like too much of a jump most of the time.

[lowheel]

Rich Lerner’s comment on BK..”he wouldn’t look out of place with the linebacker crew at the combine”...I’m hoping he was kidding....

 

He's not. He did one of his sickening, syrupy, over the top intros a couple of weeks ago and showed several players and noted the position they would play in a weak attempt at comparing the two sports. It was so bad I turned the channel for 15 minutes.

 

Lerner loves the sound of his own voice...

[Londoner]

Not really golf related but how can a company like Fedex get their ownl logo wrong in the Hollywood style sign at the venue?

[TreyWingbat]

Not really golf related but how can a company like Fedex get their ownl logo wrong in the Hollywood style sign at the venue?

 

They shipped the wrong logo over.

[lowheel]

Tigers putter seems ice cold today

 

no s***, could be -5 or -6 easily lmao, can't buy a putt again

 

Yeah not that low. He should be 2 or 3 under but left himself tough putts.Missed a short one on 3( maybe 5 feet?) that probably messed with him for a while. Wasnt below the hole very often so even if you have a 13-14 footer youre playing defense.look at 18, he tried to lag it down and was very defensive.3 putt bogey just like that

[youdamantiger]

Apologies, thought it was intended differently and I apologise if I came off hostile, I was surprised to see you back to be honest. We actually were finding a lot of common ground when you last posted if I remember correctly.

 

A lot has changed with Tiger since we last spoke. Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?

 

I'll try my best not to get to argumentive this time, it's just golf.

FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts

"Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?"

……………..

 

As I promised, here's my thoughts to your 2 fine questions.

 

Firstly, I'm a Tiger fan but I tend to be brutally honest in my evaluations and I've always been one who has little time or inclination to sugar-coat anything or get overly romantic of the past - I like living in the present, but I'm curious and welcome the future.

 

As for Tiger's season so far, from the context of where he's come from 2 years ago when questioning if he'd ever physically be able to play the game competitively again - it's been outstanding. But to your specific question "Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more?" Yes it's possible he could win again (given the right conditions / setup / course / strength of field / and his mental & technical vulnerabilities improve) but even then it won't be easy and it's no way a certainty either. Let me explain a little more.

 

As I've touched on before, due to the huge evolution and professionalisation of the game over recent times, the quality, competition and depth of talent today is far higher than it's ever been and as a result far more difficult to win (this is widely acknowledged) and mentally Tiger is well aware of this reality too. Tiger also knows players today are no longer afraid of him, in fact they actually look forward to going against him and taking his scalp. Tiger in his peak years used his massive distance over the field as a huge advantage, today that's all gone and now he's only about 35th in distance with relatively poor accuracy. Compare him to DJ, Brooks, JT etc, he can't live with them and they all hit irons and wedges close and putt lights out too. Tiger even spoke to this sobering reality at the PGA when saying "He [@BKoepka] is a tough guy to beat when he's hitting it 340 in the air ... @DJohnsonPGA's done it, now @McIlroyRory's doing it, Brooksy does it." - TigerWoods

In many ways Tiger has helped create the very fields he's struggling to win against today, a bit like the old adage of the student evolving and surpassing the master (and his has nothing to do with surpassing his records btw).

 

I also acknowledge Tiger is almost 43yrs old and despite being fully fit and healthy again (which is great news), mentally he still looks vulnerable out there as pressure increases, and we've seen this throughout most of the season. But lets be fair, Tiger has had a few great chances this year to seal a win but as I've already pointed to, in the key pressure moments he's been found wanting. I actually believe the longer he fails to close out these winning opportunities, the harder mentally it will become for him to get one over the line in todays climate.

 

So in a nutshell, if Tiger's putter can stay reliable, if he can ever sort out his erratic driving so it becomes a weapon not a worry, and if he can become better mentally under pressure - then with some luck against the right SOF, on the right course, with the right conditions & setup, yes I think it's possible he can win again. But that's a lot of 'if's that need to align.

 

That's my brutally honest (and impartial as can be) assessment.

 

I think it's a fair assessment apart from a couple things.

 

I would presume by right SOF you mean it would need to be on the weaker end? I don't really see where this would come from, his three best chances to win came in 2 majors and the Valspar this year, Valspar is obviously not a great field, a good finish at API and a finish at Memorial which I think everyone can agree he played better than, a good Players Championship as well (not saying he was close to winning them but he had good performances in really tough fields).

 

Also the whole struggling under pressure thing, I can see where it comes from but I can't agree with a lot of it. Normally people point to the back nine scoring average and yes I won't deny it's way worse than the front but I've noticed a different trend which is more good nine/bad nine, he plays the back nine of rounds well when he has a poor front nine and vice versa, R1 of Quicken Loans (this was less extreme), PGA and Memorial to blame a few. This is still a concern to me obviously because he's struggling to put a full round together, I put it down to him just not being what he once was and I'm doubtful he'll be able to consistently put it all together for a round, closest we've seen was final round of Bellerive. I can't comment on the open to be honest, I was at there for 6 days including Sunday so I still don't really know a lot about how people really played, with Spieth and Tiger being my two favourite players I didn't want to dwell that much on the Open, lol. PGA was interesting, I understand why people called the drive on 17 a choke but I think I disagree on what a choke is in the first place, to me a choke is when pressure causes you to do something you wouldn't normally do - so a really bad putter missing an important 7 footer isn't really a choke to me but a historically good putter missing an important 7 footer I could consider a choke (there are obviously a lot more variables here but I'm already getting taken away to the land of hypotheticals, lol) so I wouldn't consider Rory's poor wedge into 18 at Carnoustie a choke (I could hear the groans even from the 17th green) as he isn't exactly the world's greatest wedge player. So it's hard for me to call Tiger missing the fairway with a driver a choke (I realise that you didn't say that, I'm just going with what people have typically said).

 

Since I mentioned last time that I don't think Tiger can win another major, I thought I'd say that I would still be surprised if he gets 15 but he's got a significantly better chance than he did before the Open.

 

Thank you for the response.

 

TW is #19 on the money list and, more interesting, #8 in money per event. That's a guy who can win anytime. And as you said, he hasn't even put 4 really good rounds together and yet has finished 2nd 3 times this year. Imagine if he gets "hot" and goes on a little tear?

 

If the back cooperates, I would expect him to win 2x next year and a really good shot to win a major in 2020.

 

I know TW fans have are very tentative to anticipate any sort of success but, to me, him winning again is a probability not a "could/might".

 

 

After winning the 2013 British Open Phil Mickelson went five years without winning again despite being consistently ranked inside the top 35. Just because you've got the game to win doesn't make it a probability. Especially at 42. Arnold Palmer had one of the best quotes ever about the elusiveness of winning as you get older. I'm paraphrasing because I can't find it now but he said something to the effect of "Once you lose that something. What is it? I couldn't tell you. I'm not even sure Jack knows what it is. But after you lose it, to rise up again and grab it and hold on to it, man that's a tough thing."

[rangersgoalie]

Koepka needs to win to prove his majors are no fluke

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)

[elwhippy]

A fabulous course. AW was a brilliant designer. The green complexes are insanely good.

[OldTomMorris]

Rarely if ever seen Woods look so nervy as he did on 18 despite an excellent drive and good approach, the 3 putt was awful.

 

Woods swing is really looking great but right now I can't see him getting rid of his driving issues, the way he can lose sync in his swing off the tee is a big problem..

[Cool Runnings]

Apologies, thought it was intended differently and I apologise if I came off hostile, I was surprised to see you back to be honest. We actually were finding a lot of common ground when you last posted if I remember correctly.

 

A lot has changed with Tiger since we last spoke. Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?

 

I'll try my best not to get to argumentive this time, it's just golf.

FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts

“Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?”

……………..

 

As I promised, here’s my thoughts to your 2 fine questions.

 

Firstly, I’m a Tiger fan but I tend to be brutally honest in my evaluations and I’ve always been one who has little time or inclination to sugar-coat anything or get overly romantic of the past - I like living in the present, but I’m curious and welcome the future.

 

As for Tiger’s season so far, from the context of where he’s come from 2 years ago when questioning if he’d ever physically be able to play the game competitively again - it’s been outstanding. But to your specific question “Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more?” Yes it’s possible he could win again (given the right conditions / setup / course / strength of field / and his mental & technical vulnerabilities improve) but even then it won’t be easy and it’s no way a certainty either. Let me explain a little more.

 

As I’ve touched on before, due to the huge evolution and professionalisation of the game over recent times, the quality, competition and depth of talent today is far higher than it’s ever been and as a result far more difficult to win (this is widely acknowledged) and mentally Tiger is well aware of this reality too. Tiger also knows players today are no longer afraid of him, in fact they actually look forward to going against him and taking his scalp. Tiger in his peak years used his massive distance over the field as a huge advantage, today that’s all gone and now he’s only about 35th in distance with relatively poor accuracy. Compare him to DJ, Brooks, JT etc, he can’t live with them and they all hit irons and wedges close and putt lights out too. Tiger even spoke to this sobering reality at the PGA when saying “He [@BKoepka] is a tough guy to beat when he's hitting it 340 in the air ... @DJohnsonPGA's done it, now @McIlroyRory's doing it, Brooksy does it." - TigerWoods

In many ways Tiger has helped create the very fields he’s struggling to win against today, a bit like the old adage of the student evolving and surpassing the master (and his has nothing to do with surpassing his records btw).

 

I also acknowledge Tiger is almost 43yrs old and despite being fully fit and healthy again (which is great news), mentally he still looks vulnerable out there as pressure increases, and we’ve seen this throughout most of the season. But lets be fair, Tiger has had a few great chances this year to seal a win but as I’ve already pointed to, in the key pressure moments he’s been found wanting. I actually believe the longer he fails to close out these winning opportunities, the harder mentally it will become for him to get one over the line in todays climate.

 

So in a nutshell, if Tiger’s putter can stay reliable, if he can ever sort out his erratic driving so it becomes a weapon not a worry, and if he can become better mentally under pressure - then with some luck against the right SOF, on the right course, with the right conditions & setup, yes I think it’s possible he can win again. But that’s a lot of ‘if’s that need to align.

 

That’s my brutally honest (and impartial as can be) assessment.

 

 

So, to summarize.

 

 

Tiger might win again. But you're not sure ; )

Almost… let me summarize your summary ;)

Possible, if…

*(many if’s explained)

[Cool Runnings]

Tiger seems to have figured out something with the driver, but not scoring very well. Iron game seems off this week. Putter seems a bit off too.

It’s all relative… if you’re saying Tiger has “figured out something with the driver” relative to ‘himself’, then you might be right as he’s currently ranked #38th Off the Tee (gaining +0.276 strokes on the field) which sure is an improvement over his normal standards, but lets be honest here, his driving couldn’t get that much worse.

Now lets put this ‘improvement’ into relative terms and in contrast of winning against the driving monsters of today that he’s trying to beat, i.e. Koepka’s etc… Brooks is currently ranked #2nd Off the Tee gaining +2.590 strokes on the field - the other problems Tiger will continue to face is that Brooks and Co are also as good, if not better everywhere else.

For Tiger to beat these driving monsters of today (who also happen to be amazing through the bag and mental pitbulls to boot) he either has to play almost perfect golf in every other game area, but even then that might not be enough as it’ll depend on how well Brooks and the entire field plays in those other areas too) or hope they all have relative off days which is highly unlikely.

So looking through the prism of Tiger winning again, yes it’s an improvement relative to his own poor driving standards, but his driver is still a worry and not a weapon like it is for Brooks, DJ, TJ etc…

[egr2teup]

I have another reason to hate Facebook, as if I needed one more.

[Cool Runnings]

Apologies, thought it was intended differently and I apologise if I came off hostile, I was surprised to see you back to be honest. We actually were finding a lot of common ground when you last posted if I remember correctly.

 

A lot has changed with Tiger since we last spoke. Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?

 

I'll try my best not to get to argumentive this time, it's just golf.

FIRs&GIRs&3-Putts

"Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more? What do you think of the putter change as well?"

……………..

 

As I promised, here's my thoughts to your 2 fine questions.

 

Firstly, I'm a Tiger fan but I tend to be brutally honest in my evaluations and I've always been one who has little time or inclination to sugar-coat anything or get overly romantic of the past - I like living in the present, but I'm curious and welcome the future.

 

As for Tiger's season so far, from the context of where he's come from 2 years ago when questioning if he'd ever physically be able to play the game competitively again - it's been outstanding. But to your specific question "Do you still think he will never win again or has he convinced you more?" Yes it's possible he could win again (given the right conditions / setup / course / strength of field / and his mental & technical vulnerabilities improve) but even then it won't be easy and it's no way a certainty either. Let me explain a little more.

 

As I've touched on before, due to the huge evolution and professionalisation of the game over recent times, the quality, competition and depth of talent today is far higher than it's ever been and as a result far more difficult to win (this is widely acknowledged) and mentally Tiger is well aware of this reality too. Tiger also knows players today are no longer afraid of him, in fact they actually look forward to going against him and taking his scalp. Tiger in his peak years used his massive distance over the field as a huge advantage, today that's all gone and now he's only about 35th in distance with relatively poor accuracy. Compare him to DJ, Brooks, JT etc, he can't live with them and they all hit irons and wedges close and putt lights out too. Tiger even spoke to this sobering reality at the PGA when saying "He [@BKoepka] is a tough guy to beat when he's hitting it 340 in the air ... @DJohnsonPGA's done it, now @McIlroyRory's doing it, Brooksy does it." - TigerWoods

In many ways Tiger has helped create the very fields he's struggling to win against today, a bit like the old adage of the student evolving and surpassing the master (and his has nothing to do with surpassing his records btw).

 

I also acknowledge Tiger is almost 43yrs old and despite being fully fit and healthy again (which is great news), mentally he still looks vulnerable out there as pressure increases, and we've seen this throughout most of the season. But lets be fair, Tiger has had a few great chances this year to seal a win but as I've already pointed to, in the key pressure moments he's been found wanting. I actually believe the longer he fails to close out these winning opportunities, the harder mentally it will become for him to get one over the line in todays climate.

 

So in a nutshell, if Tiger's putter can stay reliable, if he can ever sort out his erratic driving so it becomes a weapon not a worry, and if he can become better mentally under pressure - then with some luck against the right SOF, on the right course, with the right conditions & setup, yes I think it's possible he can win again. But that's a lot of 'if's that need to align.

 

That's my brutally honest (and impartial as can be) assessment.

 

I think it's a fair assessment apart from a couple things.

 

I would presume by right SOF you mean it would need to be on the weaker end? I don't really see where this would come from, his three best chances to win came in 2 majors and the Valspar this year, Valspar is obviously not a great field, a good finish at API and a finish at Memorial which I think everyone can agree he played better than, a good Players Championship as well (not saying he was close to winning them but he had good performances in really tough fields).

 

Also the whole struggling under pressure thing, I can see where it comes from but I can't agree with a lot of it. Normally people point to the back nine scoring average and yes I won't deny it's way worse than the front but I've noticed a different trend which is more good nine/bad nine, he plays the back nine of rounds well when he has a poor front nine and vice versa, R1 of Quicken Loans (this was less extreme), PGA and Memorial to blame a few. This is still a concern to me obviously because he's struggling to put a full round together, I put it down to him just not being what he once was and I'm doubtful he'll be able to consistently put it all together for a round, closest we've seen was final round of Bellerive. I can't comment on the open to be honest, I was at there for 6 days including Sunday so I still don't really know a lot about how people really played, with Spieth and Tiger being my two favourite players I didn't want to dwell that much on the Open, lol. PGA was interesting, I understand why people called the drive on 17 a choke but I think I disagree on what a choke is in the first place, to me a choke is when pressure causes you to do something you wouldn't normally do - so a really bad putter missing an important 7 footer isn't really a choke to me but a historically good putter missing an important 7 footer I could consider a choke (there are obviously a lot more variables here but I'm already getting taken away to the land of hypotheticals, lol) so I wouldn't consider Rory's poor wedge into 18 at Carnoustie a choke (I could hear the groans even from the 17th green) as he isn't exactly the world's greatest wedge player. So it's hard for me to call Tiger missing the fairway with a driver a choke (I realise that you didn't say that, I'm just going with what people have typically said).

 

Since I mentioned last time that I don't think Tiger can win another major, I thought I'd say that I would still be surprised if he gets 15 but he's got a significantly better chance than he did before the Open.

 

Thank you for the response.

Thanks also for your fair comments.

 

I don’t deny the strong SOF in those events you outline but he still struggled to turn those great opportunities into a win in part by his own poor play and also the unwavering brilliance of the winners. The easier the SOF the easier it’ll likely be to take a winning opportunity and drag it over the line - but in saying that it’s so hard to win out here now in any SOF given the depth and calibre of any field today.

 

So if I’m reading your words correctly, you were there at this years Open? That would have been a great experience! Regarding his overall performance at the PGA, it was great but unlike in the 2000s where this same level of performance would have likely won him the event (and he’s won previous majors playing worse), in the end Brooks was just too good even with his relatively poor putting performance final round, Brooks always had another gear if he needed it. Brooks and Co are basically doing to the fields today what Tiger was doing back in 2000s, dominating with length & power and kicking on from there.

 

As good as that PGA final round was for Tiger I can also admit Tiger really rode his luck off the tee, with the galleries, his lies in the rough and specifically on the 17th par 5, Tiger knew he needed an eagle or at worst a birdie to put the pressure on the players coming in, hitting the fairway was paramount, but he couldn’t deliver and only managed a disappointing par. It’s in those clutch pressure moments when the great players play great, but Tiger for much of this season in those ‘must-make-moments’ has been found wanting time and again.

 

I liken those close and missed opportunities to Phil and his many 2nd place finishes at US Open, players have to take those major opportunities in the moment as they don’t know if they’ll ever get another one or if they’ll ever get one over the line.

 

I do think that if he’s ever to win a major again (and there are many if’s already outlined that need to go his way), the Open would certainly be his best chance. The problem Tiger will continue to have is as great as he plays, the odds that it’ll be good enough to convert a win in the big events when all the best players are peaking, I just don’t see it happening. Possible yes, likely no.

 

But ultimately it’s exciting to watch it all play out whether he wins again or not.

[Cool Runnings]

Brooks has a shot at winning this one. Looks rock soild. Tiger couldn't putt his way out of a wet paper bag this week. Go back to the Scotty or get a new one handmade.

It's the Indian not the arrow.

[wcbjr]

Friggin' Facebook coverage. Argh.