Ireland or Scotland - July 2019

[Chanceman]

Ardglass is a crazy omission. OK Malahide might be a parkland course (it is on links land though) but Hogshead and Kilkee are definitely links courses, no less than Turnberry or Castle Stuart anyway. One might also argue that Panmure is not a true links course and Kingsbarns is another questionable inclusion although it looks like links. The same goes for Royal Lytham and St Annes in England and I agree that opinions are not always right, including yours. :golfer:

[El Gringo]

No matter how you slice it, England has considerably more links than Ireland. As someone above mentioned, the depth of quality in England is astounding...far beyond that of Ireland. Throw in heathland, downland, moorland and the odd parkland course and the total package in England is probably as good as Wales, Scotland and Ireland combined. People simply don't realize what is on offer and don't think of England first when a golf trip comes to mind. Most of the time London is used as a halfway house on the way to Scotland...huge mistake. An argument could be made that one could make several trips to the GB&I and have no need to travel further north than the furthest reaches of the M25...the golf is that awesome in southern England. One day, England will learn to market their courses half as well as they do in Ireland and Scotland.

 

Ciao

[puttnforthe8]

No matter how you slice it, England has considerably more links than Ireland. As someone above mentioned, the depth of quality in England is astounding...far beyond that of Ireland. Throw in heathland, downland, moorland and the odd parkland course and the total package in England is probably as good as Wales, Scotland and Ireland combined. People simply don't realize what is on offer and don't think of England first when a golf trip comes to mind. Most of the time London is used as a halfway house on the way to Scotland...huge mistake. An argument could be made that one could make several trips to the GB&I and have no need to travel further north than the furthest reaches of the M25...the golf is that awesome in southern England. One day, England will learn to market their courses half as well as they do in Ireland and Scotland.

 

Ciao

 

Was just having this discussion...I have 20 Ire trips and 5 Scot trips and 0 England trips. I could not think of top courses, or could think about where I would go (as a base) to play in England.

 

I would love to see more overt discussion about golf in England.

[duffer987]

No matter how you slice it, England has considerably more links than Ireland. As someone above mentioned, the depth of quality in England is astounding...far beyond that of Ireland. Throw in heathland, downland, moorland and the odd parkland course and the total package in England is probably as good as Wales, Scotland and Ireland combined. People simply don't realize what is on offer and don't think of England first when a golf trip comes to mind. Most of the time London is used as a halfway house on the way to Scotland...huge mistake. An argument could be made that one could make several trips to the GB&I and have no need to travel further north than the furthest reaches of the M25...the golf is that awesome in southern England. One day, England will learn to market their courses half as well as they do in Ireland and Scotland.

 

Ciao

 

Was just having this discussion...I have 20 Ire trips and 5 Scot trips and 0 England trips. I could not think of top courses, or could think about where I would go (as a base) to play in England.

 

I would love to see more overt discussion about golf in England.

Shhhh ;) We don't want the tour buses.

Seriously though, definitely get way more views/responses in Ireland trip thread I made versus my England ones, there really is a big interest gap. And especially here amongst keen golf travelers, think how much wider that gap is still amongst regular golfers.

 

Heck I cannot get my main golf travel buddy to come to England, eventhough he totally trusts my views on what's good or not, it's Oirlend or the Home of Golf.

[El Gringo]

No matter how you slice it, England has considerably more links than Ireland. As someone above mentioned, the depth of quality in England is astounding...far beyond that of Ireland. Throw in heathland, downland, moorland and the odd parkland course and the total package in England is probably as good as Wales, Scotland and Ireland combined. People simply don't realize what is on offer and don't think of England first when a golf trip comes to mind. Most of the time London is used as a halfway house on the way to Scotland...huge mistake. An argument could be made that one could make several trips to the GB&I and have no need to travel further north than the furthest reaches of the M25...the golf is that awesome in southern England. One day, England will learn to market their courses half as well as they do in Ireland and Scotland.

 

Ciao

 

Was just having this discussion...I have 20 Ire trips and 5 Scot trips and 0 England trips. I could not think of top courses, or could think about where I would go (as a base) to play in England.

 

I would love to see more overt discussion about golf in England.

 

PnF8

 

I am very fortunate to be a member of a Scottish club, but even this bias doesn't alter my views on golf in England. Just as an example, I just returned from a few days of golf. I played Walton Heath Old (probably the closest example there is to a real heathland course) and Reigate Heath...another heathland course. Reigate is basically just the other side of the M25 from WHO and nobody talks about it...yet it is a very high class 9 holer that doesn't cost the earth to play. There are many such courses and if truth be told, England is second only to the US for great courses and a serious bench of 2nd and 3rd tier gems.

 

Ciao

[puttnforthe8]

No matter how you slice it, England has considerably more links than Ireland. As someone above mentioned, the depth of quality in England is astounding...far beyond that of Ireland. Throw in heathland, downland, moorland and the odd parkland course and the total package in England is probably as good as Wales, Scotland and Ireland combined. People simply don't realize what is on offer and don't think of England first when a golf trip comes to mind. Most of the time London is used as a halfway house on the way to Scotland...huge mistake. An argument could be made that one could make several trips to the GB&I and have no need to travel further north than the furthest reaches of the M25...the golf is that awesome in southern England. One day, England will learn to market their courses half as well as they do in Ireland and Scotland.

 

Ciao

 

Was just having this discussion...I have 20 Ire trips and 5 Scot trips and 0 England trips. I could not think of top courses, or could think about where I would go (as a base) to play in England.

 

I would love to see more overt discussion about golf in England.

Shhhh ;) We don't want the tour buses.

Seriously though, definitely get way more views/responses in Ireland trip thread I made versus my England ones, there really is a big interest gap. And especially here amongst keen golf travelers, think how much wider that gap is still amongst regular golfers.

 

Heck I cannot get my main golf travel buddy to come to England, eventhough he totally trusts my views on what's good or not, it's Oirlend or the Home of Golf.

 

I'll be your new buddy...invite me over and i will come get some rounds in with you! :)

[Superbrit]

There are some amazing courses in England, but.. they are all so far apart from each generally, you may get a 2 or 3 really good courses together, but then you have got to travel to get to another.

 

in St Andrews you have the 7 links courses (yeah all not as good as each other) but then you have the dukes course, Kingsbarns, fairmont courses, lundin links, leven links & craighead to name but a few, and all with 15 miles of St Andrews.

 

No where beats that as far as i know

[El Gringo]

There are some amazing courses in England, but.. they are all so far apart from each generally, you may get a 2 or 3 really good courses together, but then you have got to travel to get to another.

 

in St Andrews you have the 7 links courses (yeah all not as good as each other) but then you have the dukes course, Kingsbarns, fairmont courses, lundin links, leven links & craighead to name but a few, and all with 15 miles of St Andrews.

 

No where beats that as far as i know

 

I agree, Fife & East Lothian are premier golf destinations. All I am suggesting is that with Sandwich, Deal, Princes and little known places such as Knole Park and Littlestone...so is Kent. And with Rye literally just down the road...it makes this area very attractive. The same could be said for Cornwall/Devon. There are no links, but Surrey/Berkshire is also world class. Who wouldn't enjoy a trip which included Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, St Georges Hill, Berkshire, Woking, Walton Heath etc. All of these areas are south of London and there are very good/interesting courses in nearby areas. One such course in a black hole Pulborough. I think a very good case can be made that it is top 25 GB&I...but most don't realize how good these courses are. Sure south of England is larger than East Lothian or Fife, but there are also many, many, many more very fine courses to be had....and the area can tackled in smaller bits. The message is...don't believe everything you read. Spend some time in England and be prepared to be wowed. Marketing dollars does not necessarily equal best golf.

 

Ciao

[Superbrit]

There are some amazing courses in England, but.. they are all so far apart from each generally, you may get a 2 or 3 really good courses together, but then you have got to travel to get to another.

 

in St Andrews you have the 7 links courses (yeah all not as good as each other) but then you have the dukes course, Kingsbarns, fairmont courses, lundin links, leven links & craighead to name but a few, and all with 15 miles of St Andrews.

 

No where beats that as far as i know

 

I agree, Fife & East Lothian are premier golf destinations. All I am suggesting is that with Sandwich, Deal, Princes and little known places such as Knole Park and Littlestone...so is Kent. And with Rye literally just down the road...it makes this area very attractive. The same could be said for Cornwall/Devon. There are no links, but Surrey/Berkshire is also world class. Who wouldn't enjoy a trip which included Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, St Georges Hill, Berkshire, Woking, Walton Heath etc. All of these areas are south of London and there are very good/interesting courses in nearby areas. One such course in a black hole Pulborough. I think a very good case can be made that it is top 25 GB&I...but most don't realize how good these courses are. Sure south of England is larger than East Lothian or Fife, but there are also many, many, many more very fine courses to be had....and the area can tackled in smaller bits. The message is...don't believe everything you read. Spend some time in England and be prepared to be wowed. Marketing dollars does not necessarily equal best golf.

 

Ciao

 

Oh definitely, i was gonna mention Kent, but in England if i had to select a place it would be Liverpool, great nightlife (if you go to the right part) you got Southport slightly north of you with Brikdale, Formby and Hesketh, and to the west a little bit you have Hoylake.

 

But if i had a week on holiday and all i wanted was lots of great golf with little travel, and a good night, it would still be St Andrews by a mile

[duffer987]

There are some amazing courses in England, but.. they are all so far apart from each generally, you may get a 2 or 3 really good courses together, but then you have got to travel to get to another.

 

in St Andrews you have the 7 links courses (yeah all not as good as each other) but then you have the dukes course, Kingsbarns, fairmont courses, lundin links, leven links & craighead to name but a few, and all with 15 miles of St Andrews.

 

No where beats that as far as i know

 

I agree, Fife & East Lothian are premier golf destinations. All I am suggesting is that with Sandwich, Deal, Princes and little known places such as Knole Park and Littlestone...so is Kent. And with Rye literally just down the road...it makes this area very attractive. The same could be said for Cornwall/Devon. There are no links, but Surrey/Berkshire is also world class. Who wouldn't enjoy a trip which included Sunningdale, Swinley Forest, St Georges Hill, Berkshire, Woking, Walton Heath etc. All of these areas are south of London and there are very good/interesting courses in nearby areas. One such course in a black hole Pulborough. I think a very good case can be made that it is top 25 GB&I...but most don't realize how good these courses are. Sure south of England is larger than East Lothian or Fife, but there are also many, many, many more very fine courses to be had....and the area can tackled in smaller bits. The message is...don't believe everything you read. Spend some time in England and be prepared to be wowed. Marketing dollars does not necessarily equal best golf.

 

Ciao

Indeed. It might be more spread out (like Ireland) in regard to hitting some "Top 5/10" list than Scotland, but the concentrations are just as good as Fife, East Lothian, Ayr, Inverness IMHO. The ones you mentioned, plus:

Birkdale, Hillside, S&A, Formby, West Lancs... add in the Wirral and you're up to what 7 or 8? Add in Manchester GC and Delamere and you get 10 in a small radius.

Brancaster, Hunstanton, Sherringham, Cromer, Gog Maggog.

Cross the border and Porthcawl, Southerndown, Pennard, and P&K.

 

IMHO, Silloth, Ganton, Woodhall Spa, Alwoodley, and Hollinwell are the top drawer ones that really do require a pass through stop or in the case of Ganton an explicit trip.

I thought West Sussex was a pretty easy Greater London/South get, especially with all the other heathland courses near enough to it. It's a great anchor for a 3-4 course break.

[Chanceman]

Totally agree on England. Its a treasure trove of golf. And a very good but off the beaten track trip to the Devon/Cornwall region that I have thought about would be:

St Mellion,

Perranporth,

St Enodoc,

Trevose,

Royal North Devon (Westward Ho),

Saunton,

Burnham & Berrow,

and Weston-super-Mare.

I played B&B a few years ago and just loved the true links experience.

All within an hour or two of each other and only a couple of hours down the motorway from London.

That would be an incredible week of golf.

[El Gringo]

Perranporth & St Enodoc are two of my favourite courses. Perranporth can be a very wild ride in a contrary wind!

 

West Cornwall and Bude are smaller clubs with links that have some excellent holes. Both are well worth playing, especially for those on a budget.

 

I have played Burnham more than any other links. It is an interesting course in that Brits tend to value it much more than North Americans. I haven't quite figured out why. The club recently built two new tees. The 6th has a new raised tee (its an old tee from the 70s prior to the major alterations caused by the church) as does the 9th. Both holes now offer views Channel views. Most people roll through Burnham without playing the 9 hole Channel course. It has a handful of cracking holes and the best par 3 on the property.

 

Ciao

[duffer987]

Once could take Perranporth and Pennard as start/end end/start points and play all the fun courses in between and have a fabulous 7-10 days of golf :)

I've not got further South for golf than St. Enodoc, so I do need to push on a bit more next time down that way.

[shortstop20]

Not certain that list is reliable as it does not appear to have the Irish links courses Ardglass, Kilkee, Malahide or Hogshead on it. Could be others but its a minor matter, both are incredible places for golf. Anyway, the question originally was why would you leave Ireland to play golf in Scotland? It would not be for the quality of the courses unless you were intent on playing the Open Rota courses.

 

My thought was that as a single, St Andrews would be more appealing than Ireland for golf. In St Andrews, I'd be able to rent something for the entire week and become a local for a week at the pubs. If I were to go to Ireland the courses are further apart which means more traveling, different hotel rooms, different pubs, etc. Not that any of that is bad......but like I said, as a single it's nice to be able to go to the same pub you went to last night and talk to the same guys again.

[Chanceman]

I'd agree it's a fair call for a single to stop in one place as good as St Andrews especially if you want to be sociable and not travel so much. You could have a pretty good time.

[duffer987]

My thought was that as a single, St Andrews would be more appealing than Ireland for golf. In St Andrews, I'd be able to rent something for the entire week and become a local for a week at the pubs. If I were to go to Ireland the courses are further apart which means more traveling, different hotel rooms, different pubs, etc. Not that any of that is bad......but like I said, as a single it's nice to be able to go to the same pub you went to last night and talk to the same guys again.

I guess it depends on who you want to see again and again ;)

St. Andrews town is perfectly fine in and of itself, but it does take more work there to leave the North American bus tour crowd behind in the evening than elsewhere.

 

If you wanted to stay in one place for 4/5 nights (without a car) with access to lots of courses, I'd suggest North Berwick.

That gets you North Berwick West Links (the one we all talk about) and the East Links (The Glen) to walk to, Gullane x 3 and Luffness New a direct door-to-door 15mins on the bus. You also have Muirfield and Archerfield x 2 between North Berwick and Gullane. There's a real variety to those courses.

 

The town has more than enough restaurants/cafes/pubs for 5 nights of being out and about and there's a cool castle and headlands just outside town for touristy stuff!

All that said, if you want to play TOC and the St. Andrews trust courses, that is in no way a remotely bad idea :)

[shortstop20]

I was very close to booking airplane tickets and a house in St Andrews from roughly Sept 9-22. But looking at the St Andrews website, there is almost zero chance I will get on the Old Course. There are all day events happening everyday from the 9th-22nd except the 21st, so that only gives me one chance to get on the Old Course. So now I'm reconsidering and thinking I should visit either somewhere else in Scotland just go to Ireland.

As I will be traveling alone for work and pleasure, I was hoping for St Andrews as it would have allowed me to stay there the entire time

and I'd be able to work and have plenty of golf and nightlife as well. Maybe I will just have to accept that I will need to rent a car and travel to a few different destinations.

Any suggestions?

[babyfade]

East Lothian (Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane, Dunbar, etc.)

 

Highlands (Royal Dornoch, Skibo, Castle Stuart, Nairn, Brora, etc.)

 

Ayrshire (Tunbery, Western Gailes, Troon, Prestwick, etc.)

 

North-East (Trump, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, Murcar, etc.)

 

Or still consider Fife and suroundings (Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, New, Castle, Elie, Lundin, Crail, etc.

[tiderider]

> @"El Gringo" said:

> Perranporth & St Enodoc are two of my favourite courses. Perranporth can be a very wild ride in a contrary wind!

>

>

>

> West Cornwall and Bude are smaller clubs with links that have some excellent holes. Both are well worth playing, especially for those on a budget.

>

>

>

> I have played Burnham more than any other links. It is an interesting course in that Brits tend to value it much more than North Americans. I haven't quite figured out why. The club recently built two new tees. The 6th has a new raised tee (its an old tee from the 70s prior to the major alterations caused by the church) as does the 9th. Both holes now offer views Channel views. Most people roll through Burnham without playing the 9 hole Channel course. It has a handful of cracking holes and the best par 3 on the property.

>

>

>

> Ciao

 

was looking hard at perranporth a few days ago as part of my recovery plan from PVD ... little trip through cornwall and then into wales ...

[tiderider]

> @shortstop20 said:

> I was very close to booking airplane tickets and a house in St Andrews from roughly Sept 9-22. But looking at the St Andrews website, there is almost zero chance I will get on the Old Course. There are all day events happening everyday from the 9th-22nd except the 21st, so that only gives me one chance to get on the Old Course. So now I'm reconsidering and thinking I should visit either somewhere else in Scotland just go to Ireland.

> As I will be traveling alone for work and pleasure, I was hoping for St Andrews as it would have allowed me to stay there the entire time

> and I'd be able to work and have plenty of golf and nightlife as well. Maybe I will just have to accept that I will need to rent a car and travel to a few different destinations.

> Any suggestions?

 

if you are going to rent a car, I cannot suggest Celtic Legend highly enough ... they are a broker that sets up the rental between you and the car company (forget the one they actually use), but there are VERY customer oriented and have the best communications of just about any travel company i've ever used ... you can't go wrong with lothian ... north berwick is a blast to play, and gullane and dunbar or top notch ... could even make a call to the booking sec for muirfield and see if a spot is available, though they only allow play on tues/th in the morning ... gullane/north berwick are resort-type towns, and within an hours drive south of some great courses as el gringo has mentioned (or will) ... and you wouldn't need a car, really, as train service is easily accessible from edinburgh, up and down the coast on that side ... if you are a single, getting on TOC isn't that difficult, but with those events you mentioned, then it's going to be tough ... if you stayed in gullane/berwick, you could train into edinburgh whenever you like for any reason ... you could train all the way up to carnoustie, even aberdeen, on a day long trip if you like ... if you're not staying in st andrews, i'd choose gullane/berwick ... the website top100courses has their top picks for each region of a country ... might want to check that out ...

[shortstop20]

> @babyfade said:

> East Lothian (Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane, Dunbar, etc.)

>

> Highlands (Royal Dornoch, Skibo, Castle Stuart, Nairn, Brora, etc.)

>

> Ayrshire (Tunbery, Western Gailes, Troon, Prestwick, etc.)

>

> North-East (Trump, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, Murcar, etc.)

>

> Or still consider Fife and suroundings (Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, New, Castle, Elie, Lundin, Crail, etc.

 

Thank you for the suggestions, much appreciated.

What area would you say has the best combination of golf and social life?

[babyfade]

It depends on what you want. If you search a good town with pubs, restaurants etc., then I would choose St. Andrews, North Berwick or Dornoch. If you want to see nice tourist attractions, then go to the Highlands (Dornoch) or North-East (Aberdeen). On my trip to Ayrshire I stayed in Irvine (nothing special), so I cannot say if maybe Troon or Prestwick are also nice towns to stay. From Ayrshire you can take a ferry ride to the isle of Arran or drive to Loch Lomond, both nice tourist attractions.

[Hawkeye77]

> @babyfade said:

> It depends on what you want. If you search a good town with pubs, restaurants etc., then I would choose St. Andrews, North Berwick or Dornoch. If you want to see nice tourist attractions, then go to the Highlands (Dornoch) or North-East (Aberdeen). On my trip to Ayrshire I stayed in Irvine (nothing special), so I cannot say if maybe Troon or Prestwick are also nice towns to stay. From Ayrshire you can take a ferry ride to the isle of Arran or drive to Loch Lomond, both nice tourist attractions.

 

We hadn't thought of this originally, but didn't take long to figure out from Troon (our base for the first week) it's a short drive down the coast and you can also take a ferry to Belfast. We decided to ditch the day we planned on Arran for a ferry and day trip to Belfast - there all day next Saturday. Watching The Open, even though we aren't doing anything related to golf on the day trip, has me pretty excited! So there's another attraction for the Ayrshire area.

[duffer987]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @babyfade said:

> > It depends on what you want. If you search a good town with pubs, restaurants etc., then I would choose St. Andrews, North Berwick or Dornoch. If you want to see nice tourist attractions, then go to the Highlands (Dornoch) or North-East (Aberdeen). On my trip to Ayrshire I stayed in Irvine (nothing special), so I cannot say if maybe Troon or Prestwick are also nice towns to stay. From Ayrshire you can take a ferry ride to the isle of Arran or drive to Loch Lomond, both nice tourist attractions.

>

> We hadn't thought of this originally, but didn't take long to figure out from Troon (our base for the first week) it's a short drive down the coast and you can also take a ferry to Belfast. We decided to ditch the day we planned on Arran for a ferry and day trip to Belfast - there all day next Saturday. Watching The Open, even though we aren't doing anything related to golf on the day trip, has me pretty excited! So there's another attraction for the Ayrshire area.

 

You going to drive down and leave the car in Cairnryan?

If you go across with it, you might be tempted to bring the sticks ;-)

[Hawkeye77]

> @duffer987 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @babyfade said:

> > > It depends on what you want. If you search a good town with pubs, restaurants etc., then I would choose St. Andrews, North Berwick or Dornoch. If you want to see nice tourist attractions, then go to the Highlands (Dornoch) or North-East (Aberdeen). On my trip to Ayrshire I stayed in Irvine (nothing special), so I cannot say if maybe Troon or Prestwick are also nice towns to stay. From Ayrshire you can take a ferry ride to the isle of Arran or drive to Loch Lomond, both nice tourist attractions.

> >

> > We hadn't thought of this originally, but didn't take long to figure out from Troon (our base for the first week) it's a short drive down the coast and you can also take a ferry to Belfast. We decided to ditch the day we planned on Arran for a ferry and day trip to Belfast - there all day next Saturday. Watching The Open, even though we aren't doing anything related to golf on the day trip, has me pretty excited! So there's another attraction for the Ayrshire area.

>

> You going to drive down and leave the car in Cairnryan?

> If you go across with it, you might be tempted to bring the sticks ;-)

Yep, leaving the car, lol. We agreed no golf - market, couple of pubs to check out, general stuff to visit, black taxi tour, dinner! No time for golf - comp on Sunday though! Pure tourism on Saturday.

 

[milesgiles]

> @shortstop20 said:

> > @babyfade said:

> > East Lothian (Muirfield, North Berwick, Gullane, Dunbar, etc.)

> >

> > Highlands (Royal Dornoch, Skibo, Castle Stuart, Nairn, Brora, etc.)

> >

> > Ayrshire (Tunbery, Western Gailes, Troon, Prestwick, etc.)

> >

> > North-East (Trump, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay, Murcar, etc.)

> >

> > Or still consider Fife and suroundings (Carnoustie, Kingsbarns, New, Castle, Elie, Lundin, Crail, etc.

>

> Thank you for the suggestions, much appreciated.

> What area would you say has the best combination of golf and social life?

 

I know the areas somewhat, so in order..

 

North Berwick is small and quiet, but an easy train to Edinburgh which is one of the best U.K. nights out possible. I’d probably stay in Edinburgh anyway.

 

Highlands is for distilleries only

 

Ayrshire.. will get a bit of a golf crowd in Troon, but it’s not the most attractive place and has the best chance of bad weather.

 

Aberdeen is a large town, not been in a long time may well head there next year. Not a golf crowd but I imagine will be fairly lively.

 

Fife, just come back, it’s overwhelmingly an American crowd, nothing wrong with that but it’s not an authentic Scottish experience.

 

Liverpool..not on your list?? At least as lively as Edinburgh, courses as good in anyone’s book, better value than Scotland.

 

[El Gringo]

MilesGiles

 

I quite like Aberdeen as a base for golf. The city isn't too big, but there are plenty of pubs and restaurants. The best golf trip food I ever had was during an Aberdeen trip. The restaurants are bit more pricey, but good.

 

Deal is improving by leaps and bounds. Some good pubs and plenty of good eats. Three excellent courses a short distance from the "centre". Plus Littlestone is within the striking distance of 45 minutes.

 

Ciao