My Experience Gaming Blades as a Mid-High Handicapper

[revanant]

> @dpb5031 said:

>

> Of course I agree you that you should practice the shots you intend to hit on the course with the clubs you intend to play, but that's a separate issue...

 

So, for what it’s worth, this is why I’m taking the blades I practice with into the course this year. I’m putting a lot of practice in with my blades. I’m comfortable with them. They give me a certain mental focus. Why not play them?

 

My goal at this point is to play bogey golf. I can get a free screw up stroke on every hole and still make my goal.

 

I get that I’m a high handicap player with limited experience. But, that’s exactly the question this thread is exploring—what happens if you stick a set of musclebacks in a high handicapper’s hands?

 

And to that end, all I can offer is that I played my best golf last year with a set of unforgiving T-Zoid pros, and moving into an apartment with a golf simulator and putting about 2-3 hours of range time in a week with blades had resulted in major improvements to my ballstriking in a very short time—when the same time put in with AP1s didn’t lead to such stark improvement.

 

I’ll keep testing in the real world and see how it goes. For now, I’m in the camp that practice with blades has allowed me to improve more than practice with my AP1s, for the low price of a $60 full set of Ben Hogan Redlines. In a few months, I learned to fade and draw. I’m comfortable hitting down to a 3 iron, because in all honesty—why shouldn’t I be? The only way to learn is to take the shots and see what happens. When they turn out good, I get a great golf memory.

 

(Sorry about photo size. And yeah—the gap between the 4 iron and 3 iron is a little off—my MP-4s carry a club farther than the Apex, likely due to loft difference)

 

 

 

 

[MelloYello]

> @revanant said:

>

> So, for what it’s worth, this is why I’m taking the blades I practice with into the course this year. I’m putting a lot of practice in with my blades. I’m comfortable with them. They give me a certain mental focus. Why not play them?

>

> My goal at this point is to play bogey golf. I can get a free **** up stroke on every hole and still make my goal.

>

> I get that I’m a high handicap player with limited experience. But, that’s exactly the question this thread is exploring—what happens if you stick a set of musclebacks in a high handicapper’s hands?

>

> And to that end, all I can offer is that I played my best golf last year with a set of unforgiving T-Zoid pros, and moving into an apartment with a golf simulator and putting about 2-3 hours of range time in a week with blades had resulted in major improvements to my ballstriking in a very short time—when the same time put in with AP1s didn’t lead to such stark improvement.

>

> I’ll keep testing in the real world and see how it goes. For now, I’m in the camp that practice with blades has allowed me to improve more than practice with my AP1s, for the low price of a $60 full set of Ben Hogan Redlines. In a few months, I learned to fade and draw. I’m comfortable hitting down to a 3 iron, because in all honesty—why shouldn’t I be? The only way to learn is to take the shots and see what happens. When they turn out good, I get a great golf memory.

>

 

Hey, more power to you, man. Lots of guys have started with blades for various reasons.

 

Only advice I can offer is to focus relentlessly on your score. Nobody in the real world is probably ever going to give a hoot if you bag blades, but they will ask what you shoot and what your handicap is. That's still the measuring stick. ;)

 

The more I play, the more I wish that I'd worried less about blades and more about developing touch with my putter and reliability with my driver when I was younger.

 

Precise iron play begins to matter more as you get really good, but for mid- and high-handicaps it's more important to shore up the areas where you suck out loud.

[kiwihacker]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @kiwihacker said:

> > Here is my take on this topic.

> >

> > If I am having an off day the muted feedback and lack of feel of cavity back irons tells me nothing. As a consequence both my swing and my confidence suffers. I begin missing fairways off the tee, spraying approach shots wide, chunking chips and pitches and 3 putts or even 4 putts become routine. My scores blow out and I'm on the verge of quitting the game. :(

> >

> > The pure feedback and feel of forged blades on the other hand let's me know exactly where I'm missing and enables me to make the required adjustments to my swing. Within a couple of holes my swing is 'in the slot' and I begin puring shots out of the middle. This leads not only to great iron play but translates to every club in the bag and my confidence soars! I stripe towering drives down the middle. I hit almost every fairway and most greens in regulation. On the few greens I miss I knock the chips and pitches stiff. The putter gets hot, 3 putts become a thing of the past and 8-10 footers start to seem like tap ins.

> >

> > I win all the skins, collect all the cash, my playing partners buy all the beers and the cart girls wink at me and slip me their phone number.

> >

> > This is what forged blade irons do for my game. Try them, maybe they'll do the same for you. ;)

>

> You forgot the effect on your competitors, too!

>

> I can't say what's worse, knowing I don't have a chance after seeing a competitor on the first tee with blades or having to fight the shanks as the suns rays hit his blades and blind me.

 

Oh yeah! Of course! Thanks! LOL :smiley:

[revanant]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @revanant said:

> >

> > So, for what it’s worth, this is why I’m taking the blades I practice with into the course this year. I’m putting a lot of practice in with my blades. I’m comfortable with them. They give me a certain mental focus. Why not play them?

> >

> > My goal at this point is to play bogey golf. I can get a free **** up stroke on every hole and still make my goal.

> >

> > I get that I’m a high handicap player with limited experience. But, that’s exactly the question this thread is exploring—what happens if you stick a set of musclebacks in a high handicapper’s hands?

> >

> > And to that end, all I can offer is that I played my best golf last year with a set of unforgiving T-Zoid pros, and moving into an apartment with a golf simulator and putting about 2-3 hours of range time in a week with blades had resulted in major improvements to my ballstriking in a very short time—when the same time put in with AP1s didn’t lead to such stark improvement.

> >

> > I’ll keep testing in the real world and see how it goes. For now, I’m in the camp that practice with blades has allowed me to improve more than practice with my AP1s, for the low price of a $60 full set of Ben Hogan Redlines. In a few months, I learned to fade and draw. I’m comfortable hitting down to a 3 iron, because in all honesty—why shouldn’t I be? The only way to learn is to take the shots and see what happens. When they turn out good, I get a great golf memory.

> >

>

> Hey, more power to you, man. Lots of guys have started with blades for various reasons.

>

> Only advice I can offer is to focus relentlessly on your score. Nobody in the real world is probably ever going to give a hoot if you bag blades, but they will ask what you shoot and what your handicap is. That's still the measuring stick. ;)

>

> The more I play, the more I wish that I'd worried less about blades and more about developing touch with my putter and reliability with my driver when I was younger.

>

> Precise iron play begins to matter more as you get really good, but for mid- and high-handicaps it's more important to shore up the areas where you suck out loud.

 

Totally agree. I feel like I've squared away my irons for the season. If I miss the occasional shot, it's within my margin of error.

 

For me to shed strokes, I _really, really_ need to work on my putting. I'm way too inconsistent with distance control leaving myself short on my first putt. I think that will drop a bit as I get back into the season, but my first round had seven 3 putts on 9 holes.

 

The second thing I need to do is get better at chipping and pitching from within 50 yards--and especially within 20 yards. I like Stan Utley's book on the short game, and I'm using it to practice.

 

Finally, I need to get a little more distance out of my driver, if I can. I've got a 90 MPH swing speed that gives me about 200 yards of carry and 220-225 of total yardage. That being said, I'm happy hitting 3 wood off the tee and keeping my ball in play--that's one club I may actually put money into swapping this year. Had a fitting and we settled on the new F9 3-4 wood in Project X EvenFlow Blue 5.5--I was hitting it well off the deck as well as off the tee.

 

But really, I'm losing a ton of strokes with careless putting. I think working on my putting will really help me shed some strokes this summer. :)

[gbartko]

This feedback that everyone is so keen on:

1. Are you saying that you can't tell when you had a poor strike with anything but a blade?

2. How does knowing you had a poor strike make you fix it? Is it because you think you'll change your swing to NOT have poor strikes?

 

So if I understand correctly, the forgiveness of a GI club is bull crap because it's so miniscule but the feedback of blade is so profound that it is a game changer?

[deadsolid...shank]

I hit both my Cobras and my Mizunos today. I hit them both equally crappy. I knew right away on both where the contact was (and it sure as hell wasnt on the sweetspots)!

[BiggErn]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> I hit both my Cobras and my Mizunos today. I hit them both equally crappy. I knew right away on both where the contact was (and it sure as **** wasnt on the sweetspots)!

 

You mean even though you knew what your miss was that you wasn’t able to immediately make a perfect swing with perfect solid contact?

[dpb5031]

> @gbartko said:

> This feedback that everyone is so keen on:

> 1. Are you saying that you can't tell when you had a poor strike with anything but a blade?

> 2. How does knowing you had a poor strike make you fix it? Is it because you think you'll change your swing to NOT have poor strikes?

>

> So if I understand correctly, the forgiveness of a GI club is bull **** because it's so miniscule but the feedback of blade is so profound that it is a game changer?

 

#1: No

#2: Yes (feel, adjustment, trial & error)

Last: No, you do not understand correctly and your conclusions are illogical

 

If you require more go back and read my posts in this thread. You may agree or disagree, doesnt matter to me, but my views have been pretty well articulated. ?

 

[crapula]

When I was a 20+ handicap I bought blades because they look cool, mp-67 (half blade half cavity I guess). They were awesomeand I loved blades and played many different varieties for 8 years. This year I switched to srixon 785's.

[gbartko]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @gbartko said:

> > This feedback that everyone is so keen on:

> > 1. Are you saying that you can't tell when you had a poor strike with anything but a blade?

> > 2. How does knowing you had a poor strike make you fix it? Is it because you think you'll change your swing to NOT have poor strikes?

> >

> > So if I understand correctly, the forgiveness of a GI club is bull **** because it's so miniscule but the feedback of blade is so profound that it is a game changer?

>

> #1: No

> #2: Yes (feel, adjustment, trial & error)

> Last: No, you do not understand correctly and your conclusions are illogical

>

> If you require more go back and read my posts in this thread. You may agree or disagree, doesnt matter to me, but my views have been pretty well articulated. ?

>

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Do you practice with a Bullseye or 8802 to improve your putting strike because of feedback?

Perhaps the putting question is not valid - just saw your putter in your signature ;-)

[dpb5031]

> @gbartko said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @gbartko said:

> > > This feedback that everyone is so keen on:

> > > 1. Are you saying that you can't tell when you had a poor strike with anything but a blade?

> > > 2. How does knowing you had a poor strike make you fix it? Is it because you think you'll change your swing to NOT have poor strikes?

> > >

> > > So if I understand correctly, the forgiveness of a GI club is bull **** because it's so miniscule but the feedback of blade is so profound that it is a game changer?

> >

> > #1: No

> > #2: Yes (feel, adjustment, trial & error)

> > Last: No, you do not understand correctly and your conclusions are illogical

> >

> > If you require more go back and read my posts in this thread. You may agree or disagree, doesnt matter to me, but my views have been pretty well articulated. ?

> >

> Ain't nobody got time for that.

> Do you practice with a Bullseye or 8802 to improve your putting strike because of feedback?

 

Didnt think so, but it'd be better than bronchitis, I promise...lol!

 

Funny you should ask, I played a Palmer AP30r for 25 years prior to moving from NJ to FL in December. It's probably older than me and very similar to an 8802 with a slightly shorter blade length and less offset.

I switched to using a TM TP Black Copper Soto this Jan cause I like a little more speed off the face on Bermuda.

[Titleist_PT23]

I wonder if Andus (OP) is still reading this thread?

[dpb5031]

> @agolf1 said:

> I wonder if Andus (OP) is still reading this thread?

 

Think it got away from him a bit? ?

[Nard_S]

> @gbartko said:

> > @dpb5031 said:

> > > @gbartko said:

> > > This feedback that everyone is so keen on:

> > > 1. Are you saying that you can't tell when you had a poor strike with anything but a blade?

> > > 2. How does knowing you had a poor strike make you fix it? Is it because you think you'll change your swing to NOT have poor strikes?

> > >

> > > So if I understand correctly, the forgiveness of a GI club is bull **** because it's so miniscule but the feedback of blade is so profound that it is a game changer?

> >

> > #1: No

> > #2: Yes (feel, adjustment, trial & error)

> > Last: No, you do not understand correctly and your conclusions are illogical

> >

> > If you require more go back and read my posts in this thread. You may agree or disagree, doesnt matter to me, but my views have been pretty well articulated. ?

> >

> Ain't nobody got time for that.

> Do you practice with a Bullseye or 8802 to improve your putting strike because of feedback?

> Perhaps the putting question is not valid - just saw your putter in your signature ;-)

Yeah, I do have it. My kid plays AAU ball, I have 5 hrs a week to practice. And yes, I have an 8802 putter(actually a BB2), I've used mallets for 20 years, the BB2 totally restructured my stroke last year. Still use a mallet though, I'm a straight back and through stroker. Mallet has better sighting too but 8802 style demands shaft lean

[MelloYello]

> @crapula said:

> When I was a 20+ handicap I bought blades because they look cool, mp-67 (half blade half cavity I guess). They were awesomeand I loved blades and played many different varieties for 8 years. This year I switched to srixon 785's.

 

Looking back, my case was similar. However, I was more interested in just getting first-hand experience. I was ignorant and naïve and I naturally wanted to alleviate that. I wanted to see how hard blades were to hit and how they supposedly improved workability.

 

Something to keep in mind is just how impressionable new golfers are. I recall hearing endless talk about how players like Tiger and Hogan were prolific ball-strikers that separated themselves by working the ball. I remember reading about Augusta and how each hole required various types of shot-making. There’s just so much history in the game and a lot of it intertwines with the golf swing itself. That was alluring as a newbie and so I wanted to see what blades were like.

 

I guess I’m just a believer in diving in head first and trying things out for yourself _(at least when it’s affordable!)_. I don’t think I ever thought blades were making me better though. It was kind of the other way around. I distinctly remember feeling pressure that I had to live up to the clubs or else I’d kind of look stupid. I always figured that blades offered a new level of shot-making which the user had to be good enough to appreciate.

 

We can debate the merits of whether they’re practical in competition or useful as training aids but if it’s someone’s prerogative to go and get the experience, so be it.

 

TBH, I wonder if traditional notions of “shot-making” aren’t being redefined in this era of long-drives and low-spin balls? And so I wonder if blades really offer any advantage at all, even for the best players?

 

Still, I don’t regret experimenting so there must’ve been benefits. Maybe just knowing I’ve gone to the extreme is comforting? I know it's a bit of a weight off not having to continually wonder what's out there.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > I hit both my Cobras and my Mizunos today. I hit them both equally crappy. I knew right away on both where the contact was (and it sure as **** wasnt on the sweetspots)!

>

> You mean even though you knew what your miss was that you wasn’t able to immediately make a perfect swing with perfect solid contact?

 

Not even close!

 

[drugazi]

> @bub72ck said:

> We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

>

>

>

> The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

 

The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

[texcrom]

> @drugazi said:

> > @bub72ck said:

> > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> >

> >

> >

> > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

>

> The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

 

This reasoning is flawed so badly! LOL!

 

The positive aspect is that some of the responses on this topic have made it easier for me to understand why it now takes four to five hours to play a weekend round of golf!

[cliffhanger]

> @texcrom said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @bub72ck said:

> > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> >

> > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

>

> This reasoning is flawed so badly! LOL!

>

> The positive aspect is that some of the responses on this topic have made it easier for me to understand why it now takes four to five hours to play a weekend round of golf!

 

I believe it has always taken 4-5 hours to play golf on a weekend and i doubt that most of that time would come from wether or not a guy is playing blades or CB's. The PGA Tour is seeing an issue with this as well so i see this as being a wasted time between shots situation or a course management situation... i play with guys all the time that shoot well over a hundred and when ready golf is played we still come in under 4 hours.

[nsxguy]

> @drugazi said:

> > @bub72ck said:

> > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> >

> >

> >

> > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

>

> The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

 

LMAO

 

The old way of telling the same story is a stream in front of a green. The CB, not missed so badly goes into the water and the blade, missed the same buy falling shorter lands safely BEFORE the water.

 

Tell you what, please put together a list of when getting CLOSER to your intended target is better and when being FURTHER AWAY from your intended target is better and then get back to us.

 

TIA

 

 

[BiggErn]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @bub72ck said:

> > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> >

> > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

>

> LMAO

>

> The old way of telling the same story is a stream in front of a green. The CB, not missed so badly goes into the water and the blade, missed the same buy falling shorter lands safely BEFORE the water.

>

> Tell you what, please put together a list of when getting CLOSER to your intended target is better and when being FURTHER AWAY from your intended target is better and then get back to us.

>

> TIA

>

>

 

World class denial and deflection. I can’t think of anyone who doesn’t want to get the most out of a shot.....unless it’s hackers playing blades on WRX.

[dpb5031]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @drugazi said:

> > > @bub72ck said:

> > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> >

> > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

>

> LMAO

>

> The old way of telling the same story is a stream in front of a green. The CB, not missed so badly goes into the water and the blade, missed the same buy falling shorter lands safely BEFORE the water.

>

> Tell you what, please put together a list of when getting CLOSER to your intended target is better and when being FURTHER AWAY from your intended target is better and then get back to us.

>

> TIA

>

>

Agreed. I honestly can't think of too many scenarios where missing bigger, or having the ball end up farther from my intended target is more desirable than having it finish closer to target?

[BiggErn]

> @dpb5031 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @drugazi said:

> > > > @bub72ck said:

> > > > We get this topic frequently and I have to say I disagree. "Good" ball striking is a very relative term depending on what you are looking to get out of your game. If you find enjoyment out of that perfectly struck shot from a blade that's awesome, but to sluff off forgiveness between MBs and CBs is really painting with a broad brush. I don't know what your handicap is (you only said mid-high), but I am not sure you know what consistently finding the center of the club is. I don't think I do either. A round of golf for most anyone, save the top players in the world, is about consistency and quality of mis-hits. Losing 5 yards on a mis-hit shot is the difference between being on the green and off, or in a bunker, or in a water hazard. You said that your short game was weak. That weakness is going to be magnified by missed greens and further distance from the hole.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > The bottom line is you can do whatever you wish with your game, but more than likely playing blades is costing you strokes.

> > >

> > > The problem is that it's such a crapshoot. Let's use your example, where a mishit is magnified five yards by a blade iron, as opposed to a cavity. Let's say that the pin is front and it's tucked behind a bunker. If I have a five yard mishit with a cavity-back, I'm definitely in the bunker, maybe even plugged in the face. On the other hand, let's say that five-yard mishit turns into a ten yard mishit with a blade iron. Instead of being in the bunker, I'm sitting in the fairway, with a better shot of making par. It's not always better to miss LONGER. In fact, I'd say it's a total crapshoot. It completely depends on the individual hole, as well as other factors such as wind, club selection, etc. I'm not sure there's hard evidence that shows always missing LONGER is better than missing shorter. There are WAY too many variables in golf for that conclusion. But, if you listen to equipment manufacturers, they'll keep taking your money!

> >

> > LMAO

> >

> > The old way of telling the same story is a stream in front of a green. The CB, not missed so badly goes into the water and the blade, missed the same buy falling shorter lands safely BEFORE the water.

> >

> > Tell you what, please put together a list of when getting CLOSER to your intended target is better and when being FURTHER AWAY from your intended target is better and then get back to us.

> >

> > TIA

> >

> >

> Agreed. I honestly can't think of too many scenarios where missing bigger, or having the ball end up farther from my intended target is more desirable than having it finish closer to target?

 

Lol. Absolutely hilarious.

[gbartko]

The blade warrior is a noble golfer who desires only what they deserve; no more, no less. Any amount of forgiveness shows weakness and brings shame to their family. The only path to honor and redemption is harikiri by the square toed, razor sharp Endo forged weapon that betrayed them.

[Dr. Hack]

Still getting a kick out of some of these responses. So eager to make fun of the high-handicapped blade users. Can't help but feel there must be some jealousy involved.

 

I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp. Not true blades, I know, but I use them for the reasons described above by many others.... They're fun to play with and demand good fundamentals. I have learned a lot from using them. Would I suggest this strategy for all people learning golf? Definitely not. But if you're obsessive like I am, you might find it to be a fun challenge and gratifying journey. It makes sense that using more demanding clubs could have benefits. After all, there are training aids in nearly every other sport (heavier bats, smaller balls, etc).

 

 

On any given day might you lose a few strokes to the unforgivably of the blades? No doubt. In fact, I play my AP1's when the score counts. Nobody is trying to make the argument that blades will lead to lower scores with all things being equal. The interesting question to me: Is the same mid/high handicap player better off going into that game because he's been practicing with blades? Do the benefits outweigh the cons when you're talking about a rapid learning curve? I think they could.

[BiggErn]

> @"Dr. Hack" said:

> Still getting a kick out of some of these responses. So eager to make fun of the high-handicapped blade users. Can't help but feel there must be some jealousy involved.

>

> I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp. Not true blades, I know, but I use them for the reasons described above by many others.... They're fun to play with and demand good fundamentals. I have learned a lot from using them. Would I suggest this strategy for all people learning golf? Definitely not. But if you're obsessive like I am, you might find it to be a fun challenge and gratifying journey. It makes sense that using more demanding clubs could have benefits. After all, there are training aids in nearly every other sport (heavier bats, smaller balls, etc).

>

>

> On any given day might you lose a few strokes to the unforgivably of the blades? No doubt. In fact, I play my AP1's when the score counts. Nobody is trying to make the argument that blades will lead to lower scores with all things being equal. The interesting question to me: Is the same mid/high handicap player better off going into that game because he's been practicing with blades? Do the benefits outweigh the cons when you're talking about a rapid learning curve? I think they could.

 

Why on earth would anyone be jealous of a worse golfer playing a certain club? I don’t care what you play or what you shoot but the way some folks try to “rationalize” some things is pretty funny. I mean if I had hit a foot behind the ball and duffed it 10 ft I may have reached on the next one instead of missing it a little and coming up just short in the water on a brutal pin. It’s not solely about scores it’s about there is absolutely no benefit in playing blades if you don’t pure virtually every iron shot. Also, for the millionth time, of course there’s a certain level where someone is gonna play terrible no matter what they use. Some folks just want to look the part and that’s fine too but don’t try and sell ice to an Eskimo.

[nsxguy]

> @"Dr. Hack" said:

> Still getting a kick out of some of these responses. So eager to make fun of the high-handicapped blade users. Can't help but feel there must be some jealousy involved.

>

> I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp. Not true blades, I know, but I use them for the reasons described above by many others.... They're fun to play with and demand good fundamentals. I have learned a lot from using them. Would I suggest this strategy for all people learning golf? Definitely not. But if you're obsessive like I am, you might find it to be a fun challenge and gratifying journey. It makes sense that using more demanding clubs could have benefits. After all, there are training aids in nearly every other sport (heavier bats, smaller balls, etc).

>

>

> On any given day might you lose a few strokes to the unforgivably of the blades? No doubt. In fact, I play my AP1's when the score counts. Nobody is trying to make the argument that blades will lead to lower scores with all things being equal. The interesting question to me: Is the same mid/high handicap player better off going into that game because he's been practicing with blades? Do the benefits outweigh the cons when you're talking about a rapid learning curve? I think they could.

 

Your "jealousy" remark is laughable. Too bad the board isn't up to speed yet. The old board listed posters' handicaps - if they put them in their profiles. You'd see that most of the CB supporters are quite a bit better than mid-teens.

 

Just for fun I'm going to recap some of the blade users remarks on this thread that "we" are so "jealous" about. Don't worry boyz and girls, I won't repeat the entire thread. LOL

 

And I'll say right up front that there are some very good players that have commented and support blades. THEY ARE good enough to play 'em and more importantly, they have been playing for quite some time and have experience to back up their opinions.

 

Anyway, with all due respect, some of the examples of high handicappers in this thread,,,,,

 

1) the OP, a 15 handicapper who "can't putt". He later posts he came from CBs to blades and his handicap came down from ~17 to ~15. So the obvious conclusion supporting his stance is it must be the blades, right ? But he does say "Currently, I play golf for ENJOYMENT not to get my handicap as close to 0 as possible". Great for him. and the CB guyz say "Terrific. Play whatever you want".

 

Later on he posts about forgiveness being overrated and CB guyz "drinking the Kool Aid" and claims he's a "good ball striker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for his handicap level" (whatever that means). Personally, I think there are great, very good, good, average, etc........ ball strikers. For my handicap ? Makes no sense - and the clubs don't know what your handicap is,,,,,,,, or maybe they do after you hit 'em for a while. LOL

 

 

2) Then we get a low teen handicapper that knows everything about equipment, knows every driver shaft's bend profile by heart,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and had his best round ever (78) with his BLADES. And in his very next cyber breath he tells us he hit 4 or 5 greens. He shot 78 because of his blades ?

 

 

3) Then we have a 27 handicap talking about his "turf interaction".

 

 

4) Then we have a guy who hasn't been playing all that long who says "my ball striking has improved dramatically with less forgiving irons, despite a similar amount of steady practice, where the only change was the type of iron I was practicing with". Then he tells us he's a "legitimate 27 handicapper".

 

Not to mention that as beginners, in their first few years of learning and practicing, they can't HELP but improve, often rather dramatically. But it's one thing to go from 27 to 20, or 21 to 15 or so but after that ??? Not quite as easy.

 

You yourself tell us " I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp". Now you admit they're not true blades but they're not all that easy to hit but are you attributing your 5 stroke drop to the iBlades ? Sure sounds like it. Get back to us in another 2 years and see where you are - especially if you're not taking, or going to take some instruction. And even YOU play AP-1s "when it counts".

 

I mean some of this stuff sounds like the fat old guy watching a ballerina on TV standing on her toes for a minute or 2 and saying to anyone who'll listen "That don't look that hard. I could do that."

 

Most of us, certainly myself, tell the beginners/high handicappers to GO GET LESSONS and then figure out what clubs to get - falls on deaf ears. If you've never taken lessons, unless you've gotten really good on your own (and even then sometimes) you really have no idea how to swing the club. It's is extremely difficult to train yourself (properly). It's like that old saying, "A lawyer who defends himself has a fool for a client"

 

The CB supporters, like myself, believe it or not, are trying to HELP the higher handicappers shoot better scores and (presumably) enjoy the game more. I daresay MOST golfers enjoy their day more when they shoot lower scores; not all maybe, but certainly most.

 

And almost without exception we tell the blade guys to "play whatever you want for whatever reasons you want - we don't care".

 

But enough with the snow jobs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and the ridiculous "reasons". Play 'em because you WANT to. 'nuff said.

 

 

[cliffhanger]

what's wrong with play 'em because you want to? You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Isn't "you want to" relative to all purchases regardless of what it is used for and how it gets used?

[Dr. Hack]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @"Dr. Hack" said:

> > Still getting a kick out of some of these responses. So eager to make fun of the high-handicapped blade users. Can't help but feel there must be some jealousy involved.

> >

> > I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp. Not true blades, I know, but I use them for the reasons described above by many others.... They're fun to play with and demand good fundamentals. I have learned a lot from using them. Would I suggest this strategy for all people learning golf? Definitely not. But if you're obsessive like I am, you might find it to be a fun challenge and gratifying journey. It makes sense that using more demanding clubs could have benefits. After all, there are training aids in nearly every other sport (heavier bats, smaller balls, etc).

> >

> >

> > On any given day might you lose a few strokes to the unforgivably of the blades? No doubt. In fact, I play my AP1's when the score counts. Nobody is trying to make the argument that blades will lead to lower scores with all things being equal. The interesting question to me: Is the same mid/high handicap player better off going into that game because he's been practicing with blades? Do the benefits outweigh the cons when you're talking about a rapid learning curve? I think they could.

>

> Your "jealousy" remark is laughable. Too bad the board isn't up to speed yet. The old board listed posters' handicaps - if they put them in their profiles. You'd see that most of the CB supporters are quite a bit better than mid-teens.

>

> Just for fun I'm going to recap some of the blade users remarks on this thread that "we" are so "jealous" about. Don't worry boyz and girls, I won't repeat the entire thread. LOL

>

> And I'll say right up front that there are some very good players that have commented and support blades. THEY ARE good enough to play 'em and more importantly, they have been playing for quite some time and have experience to back up their opinions.

>

> Anyway, with all due respect, some of the examples of high handicappers in this thread,,,,,

>

> 1) the OP, a 15 handicapper who "can't putt". He later posts he came from CBs to blades and his handicap came down from ~17 to ~15. So the obvious conclusion supporting his stance is it must be the blades, right ? But he does say "Currently, I play golf for ENJOYMENT not to get my handicap as close to 0 as possible". Great for him. and the CB guyz say "Terrific. Play whatever you want".

>

> Later on he posts about forgiveness being overrated and CB guyz "drinking the Kool Aid" and claims he's a "good ball striker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for his handicap level" (whatever that means). Personally, I think there are great, very good, good, average, etc........ ball strikers. For my handicap ? Makes no sense - and the clubs don't know what your handicap is,,,,,,,, or maybe they do after you hit 'em for a while. LOL

>

>

> 2) Then we get a low teen handicapper that knows everything about equipment, knows every driver shaft's bend profile by heart,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and had his best round ever (78) with his BLADES. And in his very next cyber breath he tells us he hit 4 or 5 greens. He shot 78 because of his blades ?

>

>

> 3) Then we have a 27 handicap talking about his "turf interaction".

>

>

> 4) Then we have a guy who hasn't been playing all that long who says "my ball striking has improved dramatically with less forgiving irons, despite a similar amount of steady practice, where the only change was the type of iron I was practicing with". Then he tells us he's a "legitimate 27 handicapper".

>

> Not to mention that as beginners, in their first few years of learning and practicing, they can't HELP but improve, often rather dramatically. But it's one thing to go from 27 to 20, or 21 to 15 or so but after that ??? Not quite as easy.

>

> You yourself tell us " I started playing 2 years ago. I'm a 15 hcp now and started using iBlades around 20 hcp". Now you admit they're not true blades but they're not all that easy to hit but are you attributing your 5 stroke drop to the iBlades ? Sure sounds like it. Get back to us in another 2 years and see where you are - especially if you're not taking, or going to take some instruction. And even YOU play AP-1s "when it counts".

>

> I mean some of this stuff sounds like the fat old guy watching a ballerina on TV standing on her toes for a minute or 2 and saying to anyone who'll listen "That don't look that hard. I could do that."

>

> Most of us, certainly myself, tell the beginners/high handicappers to GO GET LESSONS and then figure out what clubs to get - falls on deaf ears. If you've never taken lessons, unless you've gotten really good on your own (and even then sometimes) you really have no idea how to swing the club. It's is extremely difficult to train yourself (properly). It's like that old saying, "A lawyer who defends himself has a fool for a client"

>

> The CB supporters, like myself, believe it or not, are trying to HELP the higher handicappers shoot better scores and (presumably) enjoy the game more. I daresay MOST golfers enjoy their day more when they shoot lower scores; not all maybe, but certainly most.

>

> And almost without exception we tell the blade guys to "play whatever you want for whatever reasons you want - we don't care".

>

> But enough with the snow jobs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and the ridiculous "reasons". Play 'em because you WANT to. 'nuff said.

>

>

 

Laughable? Nearly every point in your rambling response is flawed, and in nearly every case you misinterpreted the person you're quoting. Including myself.

 

I wont bother dissecting the OP's original intentions or the fact that you certainly CAN be a great ball striker and have a high handicap (I know a few). My point was merely to propose a theory - that it may theoretically be possible for blades to speed the learning curve, if you're a very good learner. This is concordant with other sports science. With or without lessons. This is basically unrelated to the OP's point, although I feel that he was also misunderstood.

 

I really feel that using more demanding clubs has improved my game and will continue to. Several other people have stated the same thing. Some are low handicappers. We're talking only about the training process and not scoring itself.

 

Yet instead of actually LISTENING to these interesting cases/theories you fall back on all the same, repetitive, nonsensical non-arguments to our point. In fact I'm not even sure what your actual point is, except for that blades seem to piss you off, when in the wrong hands. Hence my strong suspicion for what can only be described as "jealousy."

 

But hey man, play what you want ;)

[BiggErn]

> @cliffhanger said:

> what's wrong with play 'em because you want to? You make it sound like that's a bad thing. Isn't "you want to" relative to all purchases regardless of what it is used for and how it gets used?

 

That’s fine but few ever come out and say that. They try to “rationalize” irrational things, rewrite physics, etc.