Fastest part of golf swing

[mudge]

> @Stuart_G said:

> > @mudge said:

> > That may be so, but no two golfers are going to apply force the same. Thats why there is no strong relationship when measured in a golf swing, other than the deflection curve slightly trails the torque curve.

>

> Doesn't matter if they apply the force the same or not. That's just an issue of variations in how fast the build up to the max occurs and where the peaks occur in the swing, or how fast it trails off. Plot the defection or applied forces and the shape of the resulting graph can change - but it doesn't change the fundamental relationship. Well, the centripetal effects might mess with it a little bit at the higher speeds - but that's going to be (relatively speaking) long after the max forces are applied and the max deflection is reached.

 

Let's keep it focused on your statement in a previous post:

 

**max bend or max loading of the shaft would occur when the max torque (max acceleration) is applied by the hands**

 

I have not seen this to be true in comparing CH deflection and alpha force/torque curves.

[Stuart_G]

> @mudge said:

> I have not seen this to be true in comparing CH deflection and alpha force/torque curves.

 

If you have data that contradicts the statement, don't be shy. Feel free to show it. But before it's meaningful, it needs to include a detailed description of how those forces / Torques were derived and/or calculated. I wont point any fingers, but there some sources of data out there where such derivations are not supplied and are in question from the larger community.

 

[Zitlow]

Using your right hand/arm efficiently adds serious speed to golf balls and softballs.

 

 

Jennie Finch

 

 

[oikos1]

Gotta love all of the non-golf related sports being used to explain/justify a movement within the golf swing.

 

 

[Soloman1]

Where is the graph, mudge?

[Kevlar10]

Interesting article;

https://www.real-world-physics-problems.com/physics-of-a-golf-swing.html

 

[torbill]

> @mudge said:

> > @Stuart_G said:

> > > @mudge said:

> > > That may be so, but no two golfers are going to apply force the same. Thats why there is no strong relationship when measured in a golf swing, other than the deflection curve slightly trails the torque curve.

> >

> > Doesn't matter if they apply the force the same or not. That's just an issue of variations in how fast the build up to the max occurs and where the peaks occur in the swing, or how fast it trails off. Plot the defection or applied forces and the shape of the resulting graph can change - but it doesn't change the fundamental relationship. Well, the centripetal effects might mess with it a little bit at the higher speeds - but that's going to be (relatively speaking) long after the max forces are applied and the max deflection is reached.

>

> Let's keep it focused on your statement in a previous post:

>

> **max bend or max loading of the shaft would occur when the max torque (max acceleration) is applied by the hands**

>

> I have not seen this to be true in comparing CH deflection and alpha force/torque curves.

 

You are arguing against a basic law of physics. The maximum deflection of the shaft will occur at the point of maximum applied force/torque. The point of maximum applied force/torque will occur at the point maximum acceleration. The rotational version of Newton's second law. There could possibly be very minor timing differences due to something like internal damping of the materials, but you will never see such effects in a real world measurement.

 

 

[RichieHunt]

> @juststeve said:

> > @RichieHunt said:

> > Your hands reach max speed when the get to about the trail thigh in the downswing. Then everything slows down into impact. Fujikura measures this data and other data similar to this thru their ENSO machine to assist in fitting golfers for shafts. I can't remember what the actual hand speeds are, but let's say you have 2 players that have a 60 mph hand speed at impact. But, if one goes from say 90 mph when the hands are at their peak speed and then 60 mph...they would be fitted for a different shaft than the person that goes from 70 mph peak speed to 60 mph at impact.

>

> Are you claiming that 60 mph of hand speed at any point in the swing, or are you just using those numbers for illustration of your point? I have been given to believe that even the longest hitters don't move their hands nearly that fast. Have I been misinformed?

>

> Steve

>

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> >

> >

> >

> >

> > RH

>

>

 

I was at Fujikura HQ today and on their ENSO machine. I had this wrong.

 

Hand speed maxes out right when you trail elbow 'connects' with the body in the downswing (~p5.5). Max hand speed for golfers is roughly in the 20-25 mph range and then it slows downs. For instance, my hand speed maxed out at 22 mph and then dropped to roughly 18 mph at impact.

 

Club head speeds are the opposite. They measure the club speed when hands reach max hand speed. And then they measure club head speed at impact. What is interesting is they can measure not only the center of the clubface speed at impact, but they can measure the speed of the clubface where the ball was struck and they are often opposite. And they measure many other things.

 

Anyway, my club speed when my hands reached Max speed was 68 mph. JB Holmes was at 66 mph. However, my club speed increases by 40 mph (108 mph) at impact while JB Holmes' increases to 120 mph at impact. It would be like a race where I get the early lead and then at 0.04 seconds Holmes sprints right past me.

 

Anyway, Fujikura uses this data and much more data to narrow down what shaft would fit you and also help project what changes in the shaft model and any other changes (i.e. tip trimming) will have on the golfer.

 

Really fun day.

 

 

 

 

RH

[juststeve]

Thank you Richie. I think the hands really need to slow down when the club head accelerates, which is what the data shows.

With regard to the max hand speed of 20-25 mph, is that the range for all golfers or just an elite sub-set. If you know, what would be the minimum maximum speed required to carry a ball 250 yards, or 200 yards, under best impact conditions?

Thanks again.

Steve

[RichieHunt]

> @juststeve said:

> Thank you Richie. I think the hands really need to slow down when the club head accelerates, which is what the data shows.

> With regard to the max hand speed of 20-25 mph, is that the range for all golfers or just an elite sub-set. If you know, what would be the minimum maximum speed required to carry a ball 250 yards, or 200 yards, under best impact conditions?

> Thanks again.

> Steve

That is more low handicaps/Tour players.

 

 

 

RH

 

 

[juststeve]

Richie's answer was completely accurate. I asked him about velocity and he told me about velocity. His answer also included all I need to know about position and acceleration, perhaps more than I need to know about them, to play golf.

Steve

[PJ1120]

**Anyway, my club speed when my hands reached Max speed was 68 mph. JB Holmes was at 66 mph. However, my club speed increases by 40 mph (108 mph) at impact while JB Holmes' increases to 120 mph at impact. It would be like a race where I get the early lead and then at 0.04 seconds Holmes sprints right past me.**

Richie......what is JB doing from P5.5ish to impact that is dramatically different than you are? Release of the wrists?

[juststeve]

> @PJ1120 said:

> **Anyway, my club speed when my hands reached Max speed was 68 mph. JB Holmes was at 66 mph. However, my club speed increases by 40 mph (108 mph) at impact while JB Holmes' increases to 120 mph at impact. It would be like a race where I get the early lead and then at 0.04 seconds Holmes sprints right past me.**

> Richie......what is JB doing from P5.5ish to impact that is dramatically different than you are? Release of the wrists?

 

Good question. I'd love to know what Holmes' hand speed was at impact. Perhaps his hands decelerated faster than Richie's resulting in a greater acceleration of the club head.

Wonder if Richie recalls the data.

 

Steve

[naval2006]

> @juststeve said:

> I once believed that one should accelerate the club through impact reaching maximum speed after the ball is struck. Having been show data that indicates that all golfers actually decelerate prior to impact I now believe one should imagine accelerating through the ball to keep deceleration to a minimum. It's feel not reality.

>

> Steve

 

That may be the reason why I have such an urge to hurry and bang it from the top LOL

 

 

[HitEmTrue]

> @juststeve said:

> > @PJ1120 said:

> > **Anyway, my club speed when my hands reached Max speed was 68 mph. JB Holmes was at 66 mph. However, my club speed increases by 40 mph (108 mph) at impact while JB Holmes' increases to 120 mph at impact. It would be like a race where I get the early lead and then at 0.04 seconds Holmes sprints right past me.**

> > Richie......what is JB doing from P5.5ish to impact that is dramatically different than you are? Release of the wrists?

>

> Good question. I'd love to know what Holmes' hand speed was at impact. Perhaps his hands decelerated faster than Richie's resulting in a greater acceleration of the club head.

> Wonder if Richie recalls the data.

>

> Steve

 

But slowing the hands down isn't what speeds up the club. I believe it's the other way around...the hands slow down because speed has been transferred to the club head. How? I don't know.