My experience gaming clubs that were designed for my handicap range

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

 

>

> What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

>

> And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

>

> I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

>

In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

 

Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

 

But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

 

Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

They stated in the podcast that if;

Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

 

Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

 

 

 

 

[dciccoritti]

> @Exactice808 said:

> In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

>

 

Are we sure about this also? More myths?

 

27 degree blade vs 27 Super Duper Low Spin SGI. 8 Handicap that doesn't have a picture perfect swing. Same shaft, length and grip.

Rogue spin average - 4698

MP5 spin average - 4183

 

 

Wilson Staff Model Blade 7 iron at 34 degrees - Average Spin - 6407

 

 

Cobra Speedback Iron 7 iron at 29.5 degrees - Average Spin - 5758

So 4 degrees is approximately 1000 spin difference. Yes?

Cobra spinning more?

 

 

I don't know man. I mean I just put an Evenflow White T1100 in my TS2 which is so not for me and I've never hit a driver better or further in my life. Truth be told, I'm in a very 'I don't believe anything anymore' frame of mind lately. I'm just not seeing what everyone is saying and that goes with so much more than just blades. The less I believe, the better my game has become.

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

>

> >

> > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> >

> > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> >

> > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> >

> In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

>

> Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

>

> But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

>

> Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> They stated in the podcast that if;

> Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

>

> Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

>

 

Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

 

Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

 

And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.

 

The end.

[jpdx]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> >

> > >

> > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > >

> > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > >

> > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > >

> > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> >

> > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> >

> > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> >

> > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> >

> > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> >

>

> Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

>

> Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

>

> **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

>

> The end.

 

what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

[nostatic]

Yesterday's experience gaming clubs for my handicap, playing 9 holes at my local course (par 33). I'm playing Hot Metal Pros, which supposedly are my demographic. Last lesson my swing took one step backwards (had shortened my turn without realizing), but hit for awhile in the bay and worked part of it out. I've been playing this course about 5-6 over, with rounds including some good strikes but lousy scoring, and others the reverse. Very windy yesterday so that was a factor. Ended up shooting a 35 with a missed makable birdie on 8 (left it 2" short) and a 3 putt on 9 for a bogey (rolled the 25' birdie putt 3' past and pulled the return trip). Part of it was good chipping and scrambling but hit a few more greens than normal - GIR has been my main bugaboo. 7 pars and 2 bogeys is a round I'll take given where my swing was 4 months ago.

 

I was bailed out by the irons a couple times. 5i off the tee on a short par 4 hit it off the toe but it flew a decent distance and straight. Thinned a PW but it went where I was pointing and I was easily able to up-and-down. Another approach went long, but I was coming out of rough downwind and didn't club down enough. Had birdie putts the last 3 holes so the clubs were working for me. A couple early approaches were a bit fat but got most of the way there (I could up and down easily).

 

Would I have the same results with blades? I don't think the mishits would have given the same results. Fwiw I find the HMPs to be enough "playerish" (small offset, reasonable top line) that I certainly don't feel like I'm hitting a big GI iron. But for whatever reason I feel confident over the ball, particularly with longer irons. And I'm having better contact than I did with my i210s, but that could be largely different sole interactions. I will say that my typical ball flight is very different than it was 25 years ago. I used to hit the ball very high, now have a fairly low trajectory. Part of that is probably slower swing speed (getting old), part of that is stronger lofts, biggest factor likely a very different swing plane.

[cliffhanger]

> @jpdx said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > >

> > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > >

> > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > >

> > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > >

> > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > >

> > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > >

> > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > >

> > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > >

> >

> > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> >

> > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> >

> > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> >

> > The end.

>

> what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

 

i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

 

now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

[jpdx]

> @cliffhanger said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > >

> > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > >

> > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > >

> > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > >

> > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > >

> > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > >

> > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > >

> > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > >

> > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > >

> > > The end.

> >

> > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

>

> i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

>

> now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

 

I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

[Nard_S]

> @jpdx said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > >

> > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > >

> > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > >

> > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > >

> > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > >

> > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > >

> > > > The end.

> > >

> > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> >

> > i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

> >

> > now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

>

> I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

 

I would say driver at 100 is a decent benchmark but not absolute, key component is what percentage of SS do you deliver at impact, that would be more important.

[wmblake2000]

> @Nard_S said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > > >

> > > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > > >

> > > > > The end.

> > > >

> > > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> > >

> > > i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

> > >

> > > now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

> >

> > I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

>

> I would say driver at 100 is a decent benchmark but not absolute, key component is what percentage of SS do you deliver at impact, that would be more important.

 

I’m nowhere near 100 ss by play blades. It’s more about how often you hit the sweet spot, seems to me. I am tinkering with hybrids and driving irons for the longer irons but as much for forgiveness as shaft gets longer as for trajectory. It hit these blades (mo4) higher than I did p790 by quite a bit...

 

 

[dciccoritti]

Blades for life..... Old man Pat plays 3 holes with 1960 blades.

 

[RacineBoxer]

Play what suits your eye. I'm a single digit and I've been playing Ping G series "shovels" for years. I love the idea of a little extra help when I miss the sweetspot. When I see tour players with G series irons in their bags it really throws the claim that SGI clubs are inconsistent or have "hot spots" right out the window IMO.

I've always spun the ball just fine. I hit my 7 iron about 173 and it doesn't roll out more than 1-2 yards.

Shot a 37 last night and missed a 4 footer on the final hole, maybe I need a G series putter LOL!

[Exactice808]

Man..... It sucks those Cavity backs would have totally saved me SO many shots those cavity backs would have straighten out and got me the distance I was looking for.....

My game would SO be different for those cavity backs....

 

 

Man because my swing speed is not 110+ mph, I suffer from playing blades, I mean NSX doesnt even aim at the pin he says trying to get it in the 4.25" hole from the fairway is impossible so aiming at it is a silly argument.... Funny.... 2 scores cards in a matter of 3 days..... oddly the only difference? 30 putts vs 40 putts.... But naw its all because of the Blades if I was only playing Cavity backs both days... I would have scored even par......even though I am a mid capper.....

 

Oddly though Thursaday, 9 GIR 40 putts 1 penalty, 86

Today, 7 Gir, 30 putts and 3 penalties, 81......

 

So what?how would those Cavity Backs help me?......

 

 

 

 

[revanant]

> @jpdx said:

> > @cliffhanger said:

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > >

> > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > >

> > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > >

> > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > >

> > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > >

> > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > >

> > > > The end.

> > >

> > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> >

> > i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

> >

> > now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

>

> I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

I posted my results earlier and in the other thread. At my ~75 mph swing speed, I don’t have a problem elevating the blades or getting enough spin. They hit very similarly to the 716 cb 6 iron, and the AP1 7 iron (the 7 is 31 degrees loft and only a quarter inch shorter than my MP-4 6 iron at 30 degrees, so this makes sense). It mostly depends on quality of contact—if you’re making contact relatively in the middle, you’ll get a normal golf shot.

 

Easiest way to test this for yourself is to find a cheap 6 iron or bargain basement blade set (I.e. ~$50)/something that can be returned, and take them to the range. No real risk, and you’ll have a definitive answer as to what happens when you hit blades. : )

 

[jpdx]

> @revanant said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > > >

> > > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > > >

> > > > > The end.

> > > >

> > > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> > >

> > > i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

> > >

> > > now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

> >

> > I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

> I posted my results earlier and in the other thread. At my ~75 mph swing speed, I don’t have a problem elevating the blades or getting enough spin. They hit very similarly to the 716 cb 6 iron, and the AP1 7 iron (the 7 is 31 degrees loft and only a quarter inch shorter than my MP-4 6 iron at 30 degrees, so this makes sense). It mostly depends on quality of contact—if you’re making contact relatively in the middle, you’ll get a normal golf shot.

>

> Easiest way to test this for yourself is to find a cheap 6 iron or bargain basement blade set (I.e. ~$50)/something that can be returned, and take them to the range. No real risk, and you’ll have a definitive answer as to what happens when you hit blades. : )

>

 

I have modern mb and cbs. Blades are much better for me.

[nsxguy]

> @jpdx said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > >

> > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > >

> > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > >

> > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > >

> > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > >

> > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > >

> > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > >

> > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > >

> >

> > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> >

> > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> >

> > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> >

> > The end.

>

> what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

 

For a scratch or better player

 


 

 

For a high handicapper

 


 

> @jpdx said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > >

> > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > >

> > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > >

> > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > >

> > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > >

> > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > >

> > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > >

> > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > >

> >

> > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> >

> > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> >

> > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> >

> > The end.

>

> what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

 

Sweet Spot, not Swing Speed.

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > >

> > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > >

> > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > >

> > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > >

> > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > >

> > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > >

> > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > >

> > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > >

> > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > >

> > > The end.

> >

> > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

>

> For a scratch or better player

>

> 

>

>

> For a high handicapper

>

> 

>

> > @jpdx said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > >

> > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > >

> > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > >

> > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > >

> > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > >

> > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > >

> > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > >

> > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > >

> > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > >

> > > The end.

> >

> > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

>

> Sweet Spot, not Swing Speed.

 

CUTE!! Hes got picture, you got the kind that can smell too.... Wow now I realize why you have so many Abuse marks on your profile.

 

You attack personally..... non relevant to golf in almost every post.....

 

Then you putt SS.... knowing full well on GolfWRX that means Swing Speed as UM....Sweet spot is um... YEAH obvious... cute.....

Then he will deny it, as he always meant "Sweet Spot" but yeah blades thread... um forehead slap.. YEAH...DUUUUUHHHH.....gotta hit the sweet spot .

 

With that.... Yeah how those MB hurt me...OH.... yeah 3 penalties... But..... yeah fail....

1) Hit my 4 iron Cavity back in the water on a bad layup...

2) Hits another bad 5 iron layup...then hook the next 5 iron OB... Yeah those Cavity backs got me way closer to the hole......

 

here comes the obligatory, coffee comment, then political forum comment then, the You "MB defenders"...blah blah blah.....

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > >

> > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > >

> > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > >

> > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > >

> > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > >

> > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > >

> > > > The end.

> > >

> > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> >

> > For a scratch or better player

> >

> > 

> >

> >

> > For a high handicapper

> >

> > 

> >

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > >

> > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > >

> > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > >

> > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > >

> > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > >

> > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > >

> > > > The end.

> > >

> > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> >

> > Sweet Spot, not Swing Speed.

>

> CUTE!! Hes got picture, you got the kind that can smell too.... Wow now I realize why you have so many Abuse marks on your profile.

>

> You attack personally..... non relevant to golf in almost every post.....

>

> Then you putt SS.... knowing full well on GolfWRX that means Swing Speed as UM....Sweet spot is um... YEAH obvious... cute.....

> Then he will deny it, as he always meant "Sweet Spot" but yeah blades thread... um forehead slap.. YEAH...DUUUUUHHHH.....gotta hit the sweet spot .

>

> With that.... Yeah how those MB hurt me...OH.... yeah 3 penalties... But..... yeah fail....

> 1) Hit my 4 iron Cavity back in the water on a bad layup...

> 2) Hits another bad 5 iron layup...then hook the next 5 iron OB... Yeah those Cavity backs got me way closer to the hole......

>

> here comes the obligatory, coffee comment, then political forum comment then, the You "MB defenders"...blah blah blah.....

 

*I* attack personally ? Who's attacking here ? As for my profile, the mods have already told us to IGNORE any "abuse" marks as anyone can just hit the abuse button. They don't like you or your post ? Hit abuse. I don't worry about what I can't control.

 

What I posted was "And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole"",,,,,,,,,,,,,,, In context, if you don't understand SS meant sweet spot instead of swing speed I don't know what to tell you.

 

I even posted 2 pics to show the relative size of each ~~SS~~ oops, Sweet Spot. Sheesh.

 

How those MBs hurt you ? Who said anything to, or about you ? Narcissist much ?

 

Not relevant to golf ? Brother you just can't help yourself. You get butt hurt and just attack and say whatever pops to mind.

 

Talk about "blah, blah, blah",,,,,,, LMAO

[IamMarkMac]

> @Exactice808 said:

 

>

> With that.... Yeah how those MB hurt me...OH.... yeah 3 penalties... But..... yeah fail....

> 1) Hit my 4 iron Cavity back in the water on a bad layup...

> 2) Hits another bad 5 iron layup...then hook the next 5 iron OB... Yeah those Cavity backs got me way closer to the hole......

>

> here comes the obligatory, coffee comment, then political forum comment then, the You "MB defenders"...blah blah blah.....

Hang on, are you saying that, with the same quality hit, your 4 iron Cavity Back would have carried the water and then the 5i shots would have gotten closer to the hole? Or is your expectation of CBs that regardless of what quality of hit will land on a green?

Seems to me you wouldn't have done any better with an MB. Or maybe the mishit on with a 4i blade would have been so bad that it lands short of the water.

 

[Exactice808]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

>

> >

> > With that.... Yeah how those MB hurt me...OH.... yeah 3 penalties... But..... yeah fail....

> > 1) Hit my 4 iron Cavity back in the water on a bad layup...

> > 2) Hits another bad 5 iron layup...then hook the next 5 iron OB... Yeah those Cavity backs got me way closer to the hole......

> >

> > here comes the obligatory, coffee comment, then political forum comment then, the You "MB defenders"...blah blah blah.....

> Hang on, are you saying that, with the same quality hit, your 4 iron Cavity Back would have carried the water and then the 5i shots would have gotten closer to the hole? Or is your expectation of CBs that regardless of what quality of hit will land on a green?

> Seems to me you wouldn't have done any better with an MB. Or maybe the mishit on with a 4i blade would have been so bad that it lands short of the water.

>

But but but but I’ve been told in this thread that Cavity backs get you closer to the hole they are more forgiving. They reduce spin and launch higher. But but. Yeah no I put a crappy swing with the club and the result was crap. Didn’t matter if it was a MB, CB SGI or a baseball bat. I messed up, I owned it and I carried on. I hit the “SS” (effective sweet spot). Just had the face open on the tee shot. And the face closed on the other 2. Where I took triple. Nothing about the CB made the shot any better or worse........

 

[IamMarkMac]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @IamMarkMac said:

> > > @Exactice808 said:

> >

> > >

> > > With that.... Yeah how those MB hurt me...OH.... yeah 3 penalties... But..... yeah fail....

> > > 1) Hit my 4 iron Cavity back in the water on a bad layup...

> > > 2) Hits another bad 5 iron layup...then hook the next 5 iron OB... Yeah those Cavity backs got me way closer to the hole......

> > >

> > > here comes the obligatory, coffee comment, then political forum comment then, the You "MB defenders"...blah blah blah.....

> > Hang on, are you saying that, with the same quality hit, your 4 iron Cavity Back would have carried the water and then the 5i shots would have gotten closer to the hole? Or is your expectation of CBs that regardless of what quality of hit will land on a green?

> > Seems to me you wouldn't have done any better with an MB. Or maybe the mishit on with a 4i blade would have been so bad that it lands short of the water.

> >

> But but but but I’ve been told in this thread that Cavity backs get you closer to the hole they are more forgiving. They reduce spin and launch higher. But but. Yeah no I put a crappy swing with the club and the result was crap. Didn’t matter if it was a MB, CB SGI or a baseball bat. I messed up, I owned it and I carried on. I hit the “SS” (effective sweet spot). Just had the face open on the tee shot. And the face closed on the other 2. Where I took triple. Nothing about the CB made the shot any better or worse........

>

Yeah no one said a CB would save a terrible swing. If they did, even you would play CBs in a second.

 

[Nard_S]

> @wmblake2000 said:

> > @Nard_S said:

> > > @jpdx said:

> > > > @cliffhanger said:

> > > > > @jpdx said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @Exactice808 said:

> > > > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What you seem to have missed is that when the CB guys claimed the benefits of**_ CBs, less curvature and more forgiveness (i.e. distance) on mishits _**the blade guys screamed "Prove it" and "You have no evidence, it's all anecdotal"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > And then the blade guys go a prove there's "no difference" by providing all sorts of anecdotal evidence. LOL

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'd say you can't make this stuff up but,,,,,,,,,,

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In all fairness! i can agree.... with this..... Yes, factual the CB's does negate spin, Does increase the sweet spot, It does provide more ball speed (ultimately more distance) Overall or termed factors of "Forgiveness"

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now the topic did evolve a touch, where the podcast stated. that the Blades Provided more precision. NOW I have zero data to prove this at this very moment,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But the logical back and forth at the moment was stated by the podcast and others here. the thinner face CB in which we as well agree mass is moved away from center and placed on the perimeter, creates more flex and possible inconsistencies.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Where the MB has mass focused on center to maintain precision and consistency?

> > > > > > > They stated in the podcast that if;

> > > > > > > Precision was a focus, then MB's was a way to go

> > > > > > > If distance was the focus then CB's are the way to go.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is there fact to this statement or are CB's JUST as precise on center strikes, ?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whether the CB is as precise is irrelevant. Personally I don't believe there's a difference in a "perfect" stike with either of them but fine, I'll concede that it's possible, maybe even probable, that the blade is more "precise".

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Your earlier argument that the objective of an iron shot weas to get it into a 4.25 inch hole and therefore precision was more/most important was an exercise in "reductio ad absurdum". To expect to hit it into that small a spot, except in (relatively) rare circumstances, is a ridiculous and unachievable goal. That's NOT how one makes an argument. OK, well maybe in a political forum. LOL

> > > > > >

> > > > > > **And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole", the next best thing, and the main advantage of the CB, is to get it closer to the hole (or the green) with all those mishits, than the player would get with a blade.**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The end.

> > > > >

> > > > > what is the effective SS requirement of an iron to play blades?

> > > >

> > > > i find it funny that the stigma around the long drive guys for years was that they are one trick ponies... that they are not any good at golf, just good at hitting the ball really really far... i imagine those guys have an effective swing speed.

> > > >

> > > > now we have people saying that higher handicappers cannot hit the effective swing speed nearly often enough. interesting that we continue to generalize groups... like higher cappers all swing the same way, they are all of the same size, strength, and overall athletic ability... i find this type of argument considerably ridiculous used in any context.

> > >

> > > I agree. which is why I asked nsxguy (or anyone else that can answer the question), what the effective SS is required to play blades.

> >

> > I would say driver at 100 is a decent benchmark but not absolute, key component is what percentage of SS do you deliver at impact, that would be more important.

>

> I’m nowhere near 100 ss by play blades. It’s more about how often you hit the sweet spot, seems to me. I am tinkering with hybrids and driving irons for the longer irons but as much for forgiveness as shaft gets longer as for trajectory. It hit these blades (mo4) higher than I did p790 by quite a bit...

>

>

Yeah, I was being somewhat flippant about it. If an able bodied person is starting out on this stuff, honing in on SS first is a good approach. There's a lot of 90 mph players who could be 100.I've seen 70 year old guys swing at 100, came across a 40 year old gentlemen, he was easily over 110, flat out one of best ball strikers I came across on a range. If the question is what is priority, many say "score," I say SS, then command of it, then score. If you're asking me, at what point "blades"? It's still behind my 1st two but not the the 3rd.

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

 

> *I* attack personally ? Who's attacking here ? As for my profile, the mods have already told us to IGNORE any "abuse" marks as anyone can just hit the abuse button. They don't like you or your post ? Hit abuse. I don't worry about what I can't control.

>

> What I posted was "And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole"",,,,,,,,,,,,,,, In context, if you don't understand SS meant sweet spot instead of swing speed I don't know what to tell you.

>

> I even posted 2 pics to show the relative size of each ~~SS~~ oops, Sweet Spot. Sheesh.

>

> How those MBs hurt you ? Who said anything to, or about you ? Narcissist much ?

>

> Not relevant to golf ? Brother you just can't help yourself. You get butt hurt and just attack and say whatever pops to mind.

>

> Talk about "blah, blah, blah",,,,,,, LMAO

 

Nah just wanted to edify that adding usless comments into a blade debate doesnt make the debate any better! It just devalues it, all good.... you responded exactly in the manner I expected you too. So no biggie to me!

Have a wonderful weekend!

 

Yes blades requires hitting the "sweet spot" but if you hit the sweet spot with the face close to path its going likely left and vice versa....nothing a CB will do about direction unfortunately...

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> Yeah no one said a CB would save a terrible swing. If they did, even you would play CBs in a second.

>

Yeah just driving home the point.......We all obviously know this answer...... But I know for a fact I hit the "sweet spot" today well more than I could imagine........ I hit that sweet spot right into the water and then hit that sweet spot left to the OB. Funny I use my Cavity backs while doing so......

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @Exactice808 said:

> > @nsxguy said:

>

> > *I* attack personally ? Who's attacking here ? As for my profile, the mods have already told us to IGNORE any "abuse" marks as anyone can just hit the abuse button. They don't like you or your post ? Hit abuse. I don't worry about what I can't control.

> >

> > What I posted was "And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole"",,,,,,,,,,,,,,, In context, if you don't understand SS meant sweet spot instead of swing speed I don't know what to tell you.

> >

> > I even posted 2 pics to show the relative size of each ~~SS~~ oops, Sweet Spot. Sheesh.

> >

> > How those MBs hurt you ? Who said anything to, or about you ? Narcissist much ?

> >

> > Not relevant to golf ? Brother you just can't help yourself. You get butt hurt and just attack and say whatever pops to mind.

> >

> > Talk about "blah, blah, blah",,,,,,, LMAO

>

> Nah just wanted to edify that adding **usless comments** into a blade debate doesnt make the debate any better! It just devalues it, all good.... you responded exactly in the manner I expected you too. So no biggie to me!

> Have a wonderful weekend!

>

> Yes blades requires hitting the "sweet spot" but if you hit the sweet spot with the **face close to path** its going likely left and vice versa....nothing a CB will do about direction unfortunately...

>

>

 

Sure, "useless"to you because they don't support your point.

 

And yet again, given your own statement, you ignore the "CB doesn't curve as much" as your own "G-D of blades" (blades are more workable, CBs are more forgiving") has proclaimed.

 

Buy you keep on keepin' on. The more you say it the more you'll believe it. Unfortunately, other, less knowledgeable posters, will come to believe it too.

 

Thanks. You have a wonderful weekend too.

[pinestreetgolf]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @Exactice808 said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> >

> > > *I* attack personally ? Who's attacking here ? As for my profile, the mods have already told us to IGNORE any "abuse" marks as anyone can just hit the abuse button. They don't like you or your post ? Hit abuse. I don't worry about what I can't control.

> > >

> > > What I posted was "And since (especially) higher handicappers cannot hit the effective SS of an iron nearly often enough to "hit it into (or anywhere near) the hole"",,,,,,,,,,,,,,, In context, if you don't understand SS meant sweet spot instead of swing speed I don't know what to tell you.

> > >

> > > I even posted 2 pics to show the relative size of each ~~SS~~ oops, Sweet Spot. Sheesh.

> > >

> > > How those MBs hurt you ? Who said anything to, or about you ? Narcissist much ?

> > >

> > > Not relevant to golf ? Brother you just can't help yourself. You get butt hurt and just attack and say whatever pops to mind.

> > >

> > > Talk about "blah, blah, blah",,,,,,, LMAO

> >

> > Nah just wanted to edify that adding **usless comments** into a blade debate doesnt make the debate any better! It just devalues it, all good.... you responded exactly in the manner I expected you too. So no biggie to me!

> > Have a wonderful weekend!

> >

> > Yes blades requires hitting the "sweet spot" but if you hit the sweet spot with the **face close to path** its going likely left and vice versa....nothing a CB will do about direction unfortunately...

> >

> >

>

> Sure, "useless"to you because they don't support your point.

>

> And yet again, given your own statement, you ignore the "CB doesn't curve as much" as your own "G-D of blades" (blades are more workable, CBs are more forgiving") has proclaimed.

>

> Buy you keep on keepin' on. The more you say it the more you'll believe it. Unfortunately, other, less knowledgeable posters, will come to believe it too.

>

> Thanks. You have a wonderful weekend too.

 

Public service announcement: don't bother. He's just going to repeat that a miss is a miss and that mass can't help path. Of course, not all misses are created equal and who cares if it doesn't help path - it helps face. Those are his two points: CBs miss too and curve isn't determined by momentum, only starting direction. He rinses. He washes. He repeats.

 

A face closed to the path doesn't go left of the target. It goes left of the path. He won't even agree with basic ball flight laws. You're talking to a wall. Bow out. Trust me.

[Exactice808]

> @nsxguy said:

 

> Sure, "useless"to you because they don't support your point.

>

> And yet again, given your own statement, you ignore the "CB doesn't curve as much" as your own "G-D of blades" (blades are more workable, CBs are more forgiving") has proclaimed.

>

> Buy you keep on keepin' on. The more you say it the more you'll believe it. Unfortunately, other, less knowledgeable posters, will come to believe it too.

>

> Thanks. You have a wonderful weekend too.

 

Hey, So.... I have a fun questions....as This might kill it...... but this will still be fun.... In all fairness.... "Do you know my point?" I think you do.... but lets just be absolutely clear?

 

Can you clarify, why I am still in this crazy thread debating? Thanks!

 

"G * D" of blades? what is that LOL!..... Is there facts about blades are more workable due to mass applying spin and CB's are less workable but more forgiving due to less mess but more generously spread across the face?

 

Any Thanks! I am having a wonderful weekend a little busy with my daughters fundraiser, but well worth it! To hope you had something joyous this weekend! So you next week =)

 

 

[Exactice808]

> @pinestreetgolf said:

 

> Public service announcement: don't bother. He's just going to repeat that a miss is a miss and that mass can't help path. Of course, not all misses are created equal and who cares if it doesn't help path - it helps face. Those are his two points: CBs miss too and curve isn't determined by momentum, only starting direction. He rinses. He washes. He repeats.

>

> A face closed to the path doesn't go left of the target. It goes left of the path. He won't even agree with basic ball flight laws. You're talking to a wall. Bow out. Trust me.

 

Hey so let me ask you question about misses....

So you dont know exactly when you miss but everyone misses right? ... Do you or WILL you know what kind of miss it is and what affect the miss will have. Do you know that ALL your misses or majority of your misses will be hooks or slices or chunks or thins...... Not all misses are equal yes.... agreed. Yet at the moment that you miss..... you know what the miss will be? Cause I sure dont.... some times my miss his a chunk, sometimes my miss is a thin, sometimes my miss is a hook and sometimes my miss is slice....

 

secondly, surely take the face to path out of context... guess you miss the "likely" as a generic statement as yes yes, ball flights yes if you have an inside out to swing to path and the face is open the ball will start right but impart left hand spin moving the ball left. Blah blah.... so misrepresent the generic point unintended face angle at impact that is not at the desired intent will not be saved by a CB.... am Iying when I said I hit my 4iron CB in the water right? But hit it dead center.... LOL...I must be lying.... right?

 

So tell me... Why did the CB not put me in the fairway? I mean a miss is not a miss.... So certain misses are good? Your saying since they are not equal, there are GOOD misses and there are bad misses?

 

 

 

[IamMarkMac]

> @Exactice808 said:

 

> So tell me... Why did the CB not put me in the fairway? I mean a miss is not a miss.... So certain misses are good? Your saying since they are not equal, there are GOOD misses and there are bad misses?

We already went over this on this thread or another. Between two misses, the one that retains distance (notwithstanding any course specific conditions like 5 yards short is water but 10 yards is safe) is better. You were also clear that you didn't believe that (a miss is a miss) but no one else buys it (it certainly won't fly in a closest to the pin contest). Please don't start down that path again.

 

[Exactice808]

> @IamMarkMac said:

> We already went over this on this thread or another. Between two misses, the one that retains distance (notwithstanding any course specific conditions like 5 yards short is water but 10 yards is safe) is better. You were also clear that you didn't believe that (a miss is a miss) but no one else buys it (it certainly won't fly in a closest to the pin contest). Please don't start down that path again.

>

The one that retains distance is better. YES... and that is WHERE the CB's SHINE right? I maintain that.

Hey you are cheating you are bleeding over to my loaded question to the other guys.

 

Pine maintained in another thread that a high-handicap should start first with Cavity Backs or all High Handicaps by default should start with Cavity Backs. THIS is really the only honest thing I disagree with him.

> > @pinestreetgolf said:

> > In general, CBs are better, but each player should decide for himself. However, with mid and high caps,**_ CBs have an inherent advantage and should be tried first and be the default for those players._**

Everything else I agree with him and most of his other post. LOL

 

I have maintained that a club is player specific and the player should be fitted at all levels to get them moving in the right direction. Secondly while the MAJORITY High handicappers are usually high for a common reason there are anomalies and unique players that would NOT benefit from CB's right off the bat.... while rare, its not a universal truth. ( I Think we agreed on that) but oddly then it becomes a CB vs MB debate... As even NSX was gracious to edify.... I have NEVER stated anyone should play blades. I said they should evaluate their individual abilities. (Again We are debating for the heck of it at this point..... meaning pointless fun in my opinion)

 

Finally is the miss... I am being egregious to the point of a miss, sure....... But here is the ultimate point. I tried to imply it with the driver explanation but it falls on deaf ears

If a common miss is NOT "distance related" AS you said yourself "_Between two misses, the one that retains distance is better_" I am a player for what ever reason having the unfortunate miss of face angle. I hit the ball square or center more times than not. DISTANCE or being CLOSER to the hole on miss is NOT a concern for me. So NOW as we agreed that the CB's provide to best distance to the hole on less then optimal strikes, Well I am willing to give that up for something else... be it ego, pride, whatever... I chose to play the MB's because I like them.... YET I do not suffer any worse because "MY miss" is not benefited by the CB's nor is it negated by the MBs its basically the same.

 

So while my Handicap is not rated for the clubs..... does it mean I should NOT be playing MB's. Is the Club preference ACTUALLY Handicap related? (rhetorical) MOST Times it likely is...... sure I can concede... BUT its NOT a universal truth its NOT default and NOT the first thing a high handicap should grab... Evaluate their initial ability.... then hand them a club... YES if the have "SS" (Sweet spot issues) they have distance issues etc. THE BY all means.... hand them that SGI, GI/ CB.... but if their abilities are extraordinary... giving them and SGI,GI/CB may not be beneficial to their benefit..... thats all I am really trying to imply. ..

 

 

 

[nostatic]

So to distill it down, GI irons are probably the best choice for many (most) mid-high handicappers, but there may be exceptions - depends on the individual.

 

I think the problem is everyone thinks they are the exception :wink: