Koepka on JB Holmes

[North Butte]

Believe what you want, golfers believe all sorts of silly superstitions. It's a waste of time no matter what you choose to believe.

 

So if you decided next week that hopping up and down five times on your left leg immediately before hitting your tee shots would help you hit more fairways, would the fact that you belive it make it any more true?

[tbowles411]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Believe what you want, golfers believe all sorts of silly superstitions. It's a waste of time no matter what you choose to believe.

>

> So if you decided next week that hopping up and down five times on your left leg immediately before hitting your tee shots would help you hit more fairways, would the fact that you believe it make it any more true?

I tried it. I fell and more importantly, it didn't work. Now I have more problems. :)

 

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Believe what you want, golfers believe all sorts of silly superstitions. It's a waste of time no matter what you choose to believe.

>

> So if you decided next week that hopping up and down five times on your left leg immediately before hitting your tee shots would help you hit more fairways, would the fact that you belive it make it any more true?

 

smh it's not a superstition if it aids in my ability to make a putt. it's not marking the ball with a four leaf clover or, tying shoes a specific way or, jumping up and down as you so put.

 

...these threads are a waste of time. i'm out.

[North Butte]

> @tbowles411 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > Believe what you want, golfers believe all sorts of silly superstitions. It's a waste of time no matter what you choose to believe.

> >

> > So if you decided next week that hopping up and down five times on your left leg immediately before hitting your tee shots would help you hit more fairways, would the fact that you believe it make it any more true?

> I tried it. I fell and more importantly, it didn't work. Now I have more problems. :)

>

 

It's true. Even I can't fall flat on my can doing the alignment line thing.

 

Old joke. Guy walks into a liquor store and asks for a fifth of Old Rabbit. Clerk says, "We don't have that, how about some Old Crow". Guy says, "No sir, I don't want to fly I just want to jump around a little".

[idrive]

> @"North Butte" said:

>

>

> So if you decided next week that hopping up and down five times on your left leg immediately before hitting your tee shots would help you hit more fairways, would the fact that you ~~belive~~ _believe_ it make it any more true?

 

Absolutely

 

 

[golfer07840]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > >

> > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > >

> > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > >

> > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> >

> > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> >

> > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

>

> Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

 

4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

 

Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

[xxio]

I tracked it. I average 28-29 putts with a line, about 33-34 withoutbone. I have not measured how much longer overall I take lining up the line, but per putt about 5 seconds, so I guess 2 and a half minutes more per round? When I do back off, its not usually the line but needing a 2nd read after being over the ball.

[farmer]

The line on the ball is a straw man as to pace of play. Players back off putts all the time, line or no line. In my nearly 50 years of playing, the no. 1 time killer is looking for balls. No. 2 is not being ready to play when it's your turn. Add in that people tend to socialize, there's time wasted, but golf is a social activity, not just a slog for score or to be quick. If a foursome is playing, each shoots around 90, takes 30 secs. to get the shot off, that's 3 hours, just to hit the shots. Add in travel time from green to tee, tee to balls, and there is no reasonable way for that group to play under 4 hours. And this hypothetical group will be looking for balls, because, well, their skill level assures that balls will be offline.

[airjammer]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > >

> > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > >

> > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > >

> > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > >

> > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > >

> > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> >

> > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

>

> 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

>

> Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

 

Glad I don’t play on the courses you all play...4.5 hours is a eternity to play 18 holes of golf without long treks to the next tee box but I’m aware I’m the minority not the majority.

 

Can’t say I ever met a player that didn’t play better at a faster pace than a slower on within reason. Your subconscious mind has already made all the calculations on how the putt breaks and how hard to hit whatever club your conscious mind picks. All of the other crap we do to get ready for the shot at hand is just your ego trying to prove it is in charge when you couldn’t even fathom how to calculate how fast to swing to hit ball with attack angle and face angle on paper if your life depended on it so go ahead and hit the ball already

 

 

[The Pearl]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > >

> > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > >

> > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > >

> > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > >

> > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > >

> > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> >

> > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

>

> 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

>

> Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

 

How long would it take you to play in a foursome without anybody in front of you? Do you walk or ride? How long is the course, how hilly? 4.5 hours unencumbered even walking is slow, riding is absurd. I can't think of one course I have ever played that would take 4.5 hours to play in a cart as a foursome unencumbered. The closest would be Wolf Creek in Mesquite do to the treacherous drives from tee to green.

[gioguy21]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @golfer07840 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > >

> > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > >

> > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> >

> > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> >

> > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

>

> How long would it take you to play in a foursome without anybody in front of you? Do you walk or ride? How long is the course, how hilly? 4.5 hours unencumbered even walking is slow, riding is absurd. I can't think of one course I have ever played that would take 4.5 hours to play in a cart as a foursome unencumbered. The closest would be Wolf Creek in Mesquite do to the treacherous drives from tee to green.

 

if no one is infront of me or behind me -- what do you care how long it takes? or if i walk, or ride? are you trying to tell me if i had the course to myself i should be playing fast simply b/c well, you think i should?

 

i'm not a slow player - typically i can play a round by myself walking on a moderate course in less than 3 hours, taking my time.

 

 

[The Pearl]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > > >

> > > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > > >

> > > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > > >

> > > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> > >

> > > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> > >

> > > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

> >

> > How long would it take you to play in a foursome without anybody in front of you? Do you walk or ride? How long is the course, how hilly? 4.5 hours unencumbered even walking is slow, riding is absurd. I can't think of one course I have ever played that would take 4.5 hours to play in a cart as a foursome unencumbered. The closest would be Wolf Creek in Mesquite do to the treacherous drives from tee to green.

>

> if no one is infront of me or behind me -- what do you care how long it takes? or if i walk, or ride? are you trying to tell me if i had the course to myself i should be playing fast simply b/c well, you think i should?

>

> i'm not a slow player - typically i can play a round by myself walking on a moderate course in less than 3 hours, taking my time.

>

>

 

I was asking to evaluate the 4.5 hour claim.

[gioguy21]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> > > >

> > > > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

> > >

> > > How long would it take you to play in a foursome without anybody in front of you? Do you walk or ride? How long is the course, how hilly? 4.5 hours unencumbered even walking is slow, riding is absurd. I can't think of one course I have ever played that would take 4.5 hours to play in a cart as a foursome unencumbered. The closest would be Wolf Creek in Mesquite do to the treacherous drives from tee to green.

> >

> > if no one is infront of me or behind me -- what do you care how long it takes? or if i walk, or ride? are you trying to tell me if i had the course to myself i should be playing fast simply b/c well, you think i should?

> >

> > i'm not a slow player - typically i can play a round by myself walking on a moderate course in less than 3 hours, taking my time.

> >

> >

>

> I was asking to evaluate the 4.5 hour claim.

 

the 4.5 hour claim is on a regular basis at just about every course here in NJ - most places it's longer than that. riding, walking...doesn't matter - courses are jam packed up here.

[idrive]

For me and the people I play with, pace of play is completely dictated on the group(s) in front of us.

 

Tell me how you can play in 3 hours when the pace of play will bring you in at 4, 4.5 or 5 hours?

 

As I mentioned earlier when I (we) are lucky enough to not have anyone in front of us (extremely rare) a round of 3 hours is the norm but completely impossible when the course is busy.

 

My guess is all you speed burners most likely feel entitled to bypass a group you feel is slow only to have that group now waiting on you every hole because there is nowhere for you to go besides home.

[North Butte]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > >

> > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > >

> > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > >

> > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > >

> > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > >

> > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> >

> > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

>

> 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

>

> Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

 

For me it's "I can walk and play in 2:45 so anything longer than 4:00 hours is slow". I know almost everyone on the planet prefers to play slower than me. And a lot of them prefer to play a full hour slower than me. But I draw the line well short of the guys who think 5 hours is just golf taking however long it takes.

 

But I have been playing the same course since 1995 and I'm telling you that 20 years ago, a round taking 4 hours on this course was considered slow and if it took 4-1/2 the members would be outraged. Now on exactly the same course it takes 4 hours darned near every single time, unless the course is half empty. And 4-1/2 is no longer unusual.

 

I haven't started walking faster. In fact, I have become much more sanguine about hanging back and just waiting it out. But 4 hours on a compact, walkable private course with few hills or wetlands is a pretty darned slow round of golf.

 

P.S. The large group I play frequently with has about five guys (out of 30-some) among the regulars who I would class as slower than the group norm. Two of those are in the "human rain delay" class, the other three I'd charitably call "deliberate". But if I'm fortunate enough be in the first group off and I don't draw any of the slow guys it usually takes a little under 3:30 for threes and maybe 3:40 for foursomes. And that's a bunch of old guys including some of us basically playing bogey golf, so not an unusually quick group.

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @golfer07840 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > >

> > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > >

> > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> >

> > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> >

> > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

>

> For me it's "I can walk and play in 2:45 so anything longer than 4:00 hours is slow". I know almost everyone on the planet prefers to play slower than me. And a lot of them prefer to play a full hour slower than me. But I draw the line well short of the guys who think 5 hours is just golf taking however long it takes.

>

> But I have been playing the same course since 1995 and I'm telling you that 20 years ago, a round taking 4 hours on this course was considered slow and if it took 4-1/2 the members would be outraged. Now on exactly the same course it takes 4 hours darned near every single time, unless the course is half empty. And 4-1/2 is no longer unusual.

>

> I haven't started walking faster. In fact, I have become much more sanguine about hanging back and just waiting it out. But 4 hours on a compact, walkable private course with few hills or wetlands is a pretty darned slow round of golf.

 

talk to management ---?

[North Butte]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > > >

> > > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > > >

> > > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > > >

> > > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> > >

> > > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> > >

> > > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

> >

> > For me it's "I can walk and play in 2:45 so anything longer than 4:00 hours is slow". I know almost everyone on the planet prefers to play slower than me. And a lot of them prefer to play a full hour slower than me. But I draw the line well short of the guys who think 5 hours is just golf taking however long it takes.

> >

> > But I have been playing the same course since 1995 and I'm telling you that 20 years ago, a round taking 4 hours on this course was considered slow and if it took 4-1/2 the members would be outraged. Now on exactly the same course it takes 4 hours darned near every single time, unless the course is half empty. And 4-1/2 is no longer unusual.

> >

> > I haven't started walking faster. In fact, I have become much more sanguine about hanging back and just waiting it out. But 4 hours on a compact, walkable private course with few hills or wetlands is a pretty darned slow round of golf.

>

> talk to management ---?

 

"Management" would be the board of directors. A couple of those guys are slower than J.B. Holmes and I kid you not.

 

There's nothing to be done. People today accept that it takes "about 4 hours" to play our course. Even the very same exact individuals who would have answered that question "a little over 3 hours" 15-20 years ago. And as we add more alignment lines and visualizations and swing drills before shots (100% picked up from watching TV golf by the way) that will pretty soon be "about 4-1/2 hours". I see no end in sight. Pretty soon the guys on TV will be hitting 6 hours and the guys trying to mimic their antics except shooting 85 instead of 70 will be even slower.

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> > > >

> > > > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

> > >

> > > For me it's "I can walk and play in 2:45 so anything longer than 4:00 hours is slow". I know almost everyone on the planet prefers to play slower than me. And a lot of them prefer to play a full hour slower than me. But I draw the line well short of the guys who think 5 hours is just golf taking however long it takes.

> > >

> > > But I have been playing the same course since 1995 and I'm telling you that 20 years ago, a round taking 4 hours on this course was considered slow and if it took 4-1/2 the members would be outraged. Now on exactly the same course it takes 4 hours darned near every single time, unless the course is half empty. And 4-1/2 is no longer unusual.

> > >

> > > I haven't started walking faster. In fact, I have become much more sanguine about hanging back and just waiting it out. But 4 hours on a compact, walkable private course with few hills or wetlands is a pretty darned slow round of golf.

> >

> > talk to management ---?

>

> "Management" would be the board of directors. A couple of those guys are slower than J.B. Holmes and I kid you not.

>

> There's nothing to be done. People today accept that it takes "about 4 hours" to play our course. Even the very same exact individuals who would have answered that question "a little over 3 hours" 15-20 years ago. And as we add more alignment lines and visualizations and swing drills before shots (100% picked up from watching TV golf by the way) that will pretty soon be "about 4-1/2 hours". I see no end in sight. Pretty soon the guys on TV will be hitting 6 hours and the guys trying to mimic their antics except shooting 85 instead of 70 will be even slower.

 

ok well, if you won't get buy-in from the board to speed up play -- either find a different place or keep yellin on that lawn lol (in jest)

[oiler45]

I find these threads kinda funny - it's like slow play (or more accurately - people who play slower than you) is a new thing. I'm an old fart who has been golfing for close to 50 years. Guess what - golf is no slower now in general than it ever has. The same issues are still the same issues - the fact is there will always be beginner golfers who lose balls and shoot 120, golfers who aren't ready when it's their turn, guys who stop for too long at the turn or who have the cart girl stop every time - an average round of golf is about the same length it has always been. And - the same complaints about slow play are the same complaints. No one has solved this perceived problem because golf courses are in the business to make money - the customer is always right (even if he isn't) …..

[North Butte]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> > > > >

> > > > > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> > > > >

> > > > > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

> > > >

> > > > For me it's "I can walk and play in 2:45 so anything longer than 4:00 hours is slow". I know almost everyone on the planet prefers to play slower than me. And a lot of them prefer to play a full hour slower than me. But I draw the line well short of the guys who think 5 hours is just golf taking however long it takes.

> > > >

> > > > But I have been playing the same course since 1995 and I'm telling you that 20 years ago, a round taking 4 hours on this course was considered slow and if it took 4-1/2 the members would be outraged. Now on exactly the same course it takes 4 hours darned near every single time, unless the course is half empty. And 4-1/2 is no longer unusual.

> > > >

> > > > I haven't started walking faster. In fact, I have become much more sanguine about hanging back and just waiting it out. But 4 hours on a compact, walkable private course with few hills or wetlands is a pretty darned slow round of golf.

> > >

> > > talk to management ---?

> >

> > "Management" would be the board of directors. A couple of those guys are slower than J.B. Holmes and I kid you not.

> >

> > There's nothing to be done. People today accept that it takes "about 4 hours" to play our course. Even the very same exact individuals who would have answered that question "a little over 3 hours" 15-20 years ago. And as we add more alignment lines and visualizations and swing drills before shots (100% picked up from watching TV golf by the way) that will pretty soon be "about 4-1/2 hours". I see no end in sight. Pretty soon the guys on TV will be hitting 6 hours and the guys trying to mimic their antics except shooting 85 instead of 70 will be even slower.

>

> ok well, if you won't get buy-in from the board to speed up play -- either find a different place or keep yellin on that lawn lol (in jest)

 

I find my average time to tee off has migrated over the last 10 years from around 8:15am to maybe 1:00 or 1:30pm and it's getting later every year. Playing before 11:00 at weekends (or even some weekdays) it just isn't going to be a sub-4-hour round more than once in a blue moon. Wait until 3:00pm and within reason it's any pace I choose to play.

 

Still trying to find a happy medium where I can be home for a nap before supper but it's getting harder...

[musclefront]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > >

> > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > >

> > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there four hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> >

> > my point is i'm a fast playing golfer and no, my 'silly behavior' isn't holding anyone up OR is it wasting time.

> >

> > the factors you guys are attributing to slow play are only a part of the equation IF the golfer themselves take a long time. these simple things are not by themselves the cause. those who take that long on a green are also more likely to take more time in the fairway, on the tee or other places before they even get to the green.

> >

> > i've played with guys in tourneys who use lines, guys who don't, guys who waggle, etc, and we all know a slow golfer when we see it --- and we've never said, "he's a slow golfer b/c he aligns every putt"...its usually "that guy takes forever, regardless of the shot"

>

> But it is wasting time. The wasted time may not matter if you're going to be waiting on even slower players. But it is wasted time. That's my only point.

>

> As I observed upthread, everybody wants to do their own thing and in a lot of cases it doesn't amount to much if any real delay. And yet every year play on every course in the world gets slower and slower and slower as we accumulate all these things that may or may not matter.

>

> You can't pretend that a 4-1/2 average round today on a course that 20 years ago averaged under 4 hours is caused by just a few "slow players" or by some specific factor or two. It's the accumulation of little time-wasting bits from a hundred different golfers, all doing their own thing. The alignment line thing came on the scene 5-10 years ago, it's just added to the list. There will be more in future.

>

> P.S. Funny how stuff like that nobody in the world did at one point suddenly becomes fashionable. Yet those things never go away like a normal fad. Once they are widespread in the game, they stay forever!

 

If it takes 5 extra seconds to line up a putt with the line that adds about 200 seconds which is 3.3 minutes over 18 holes. Stop with this nonsense, it’s not the alignment aid

 

[North Butte]

No, it's not your alignment line. It your 3.3 minutes plus the other alignment line guys with their 3.3 minutes plus the other 100 types of procrastination that people pick up from watching TV.

 

If four guys in the same group each add 3 minutes that's 12 minutes. If they each also have two other quirks before you know it they're wasting half an hour per round. But yeah, each one of them can say his particular routine in one particular situation "only" costs the rest of the people on the course three minutes. What a charitable fellow!

 

But as I keep saying, if you can do all that and still finish in under 4 hours I have no objection. It's just that somebody, somewhere is wasting a heck of a lot of time. Just never me or you, right?

 

P.S. If you can consistently average 5 seconds or less per putt to fiddle the line...PLEASE, PLEASE come give a workshop at my course and show the guys I play with how to do it that fast.

[buckeyefl]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

> > > > >

> > > > > Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

> > > >

> > > > Yes

> > > >

> > >

> > > so you'd rather me putt twice than once? i'm sure that takes less time eh?

> >

> > Really? You one putt every time when you use your alignment aid? 5 seconds to use your alignment aid, assuming you execute it correctly each time? We all have sat in the fairway watching you guys fiddle with this, back off and fiddle with it again. In a foursome that uses it and two putts every green, equates to 12 minutes extra per round at 5 seconds alignment time for each putt....minimun. I suspect it takes longer as you guys don't just hit it after lining it up. It is backing off, checking to make sure it is correct and then start your routine. 5 seconds might be minimum at best. 4 guys with this routine would potentially add 15 minutes to a round.

> >

> > If you think this speeds up your play, you are delusional.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> my point was that if me putting a line on my ball slows up play to such an extent it's measurable -- you are delusional.

>

> lol

>

> the type of person you speak of is the outlier. i've had a line on my ball for quite a few years now and don't take any longer to line up a putt than you would without one.

>

> lighten up francis or go bowling.

>

>

 

Its most certainly measurable and not even close to delusional. Its happened right in front of our eyes as people try to copy the pros they see on TV. YOU are not the golf world in whole so while YOU think it isnt an issue the reality is much different. It has slowed down pros and most certainly slows down average Joe and all of his buddies. If you do it in a timely manner, as you should, then good for you but you are an outlier.

 

A line on the ball isnt the biggest problem out there ( not even close) but its one of the thousand cuts and doesnt help most people other than in their head. Most people wont hit the same spot on their putter face or their line on a putt more than a couple of times a round.

[lopey986]

Yeah, it's the little line on the ball that is causing all these slow rounds. Hopefully manufacturers get rid of them and they outlaw sharpies, lmao.

 

And nice to see you've finally left the Kirkland ball thread and mosey'd on over to these parts to be a regular curmudgeon, Mr. North Butte.

[idrive]

I have found that the #1 time killer is people looking for a ball they're never going to find. A good share of the courses I play locally are lined with desert type conditions. Rocks just big enough and loose enough for someone to break an ankle. Brush, bushes, cactus and weeds with stickers that require you take your shoes off to remove them so you can continue. However they still insist on spending time looking for the ball they most likely found, was given to them or they picked up for 4 for a dollar.

 

I think the hard part for a lot of the WRX forum to realize is we are actually in the minority regarding most players. Folks regard this more of a social event than a game, competitive or otherwise. They are in no hurry and most assuredly do not want to be rushed.

 

For me, trying to find the good in all of this (slow play) is the game has helped me with my worst attribute. Patience.

 

I've suggested many times that when you check in you should have to read and sign a disclosure. Without getting to long or complicated something like...

 

The course recommends a playing time of _________ hours.

You will be asked to pick up and and skip any holes needed to bring you back up to the group in front of you if you fall behind.

Play ready Golf

Play one golf ball

No on course lessons.

 

 

[golfer07840]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @golfer07840 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > >

> > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > >

> > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> >

> > 4 1/2 hours is about how long it takes on the courses @gioguy21 and I frequent (Never had the pleasure of actually playing together, but I know we run in the same area of courses). So for us, 4 1/2 hours isn't long or slow.

> >

> > Maybe it's a regional thing? I've never understood the whole "I can walk and play 18 holes in 2.5 hours, anything over that is slow" mentality.

>

> How long would it take you to play in a foursome without anybody in front of you? Do you walk or ride? How long is the course, how hilly? 4.5 hours unencumbered even walking is slow, riding is absurd. I can't think of one course I have ever played that would take 4.5 hours to play in a cart as a foursome unencumbered. The closest would be Wolf Creek in Mesquite do to the treacherous drives from tee to green.

 

A couple of weeks ago, playing in a twosome on a course that's very hilly, but the holes are very spread apart (takes 45 mins just to ride the course, to give you an idea how sprawled out it is) we played in roughly 4 hours. nobody was pushing us and we didn't really have to wait much on the tee boxes.

[new2g0lf]

You guys that play sub 3 hours rounds as part of a 4 some must not only be fast but pretty good golfers, playing on a course that has minimal places where balls can be lost. I have no issue with a 4:15 round, sure I'd like to play faster but when you factor in looking for lost balls, hitting provisionals, getting food / drink from cart girl, bathroom breaks, plus 4 guys taking 50-60 swings and putting 34 - 40 times, there's not much time to be shave off. Last I checked, golf is a recreational sport, most of us are not playing to win a trophy, we're with friends trying to have good time, the goal is to shoot the lowest score, not finish in the fastest time.

 

The pace of play mantra is to maintain pace with the group in front of you. If the lead groups are not playing at a 4:15 pace or better no one behind them is going to be able to, so that's on the club and the marshall, not the guys stuck in the middle of slow course.

[Yuck]

Slow play becomes cultural. I have lived and golfed in many places. I have played Public courses packed with fat old men walking and shooting 90+ average 3:30. - 3:35 and I have lived where 4.5 hours plus is accepted. When a slow player joins a fast playing country club, they do speed up after months of browbeating, snarky comments and other signs that turtle like pace is not accepted. On the other hand, if one Moves to a slow playing environment, they will become slower and more tolerant of slow play eventually. ( or they will give up the game before their head explodes. Finally, slow players don’t really believe they are slow.

[golfer07840]

> @idrive said:

 

>

> The course recommends a playing time of _________ hours.

> You will be asked to pick up and and skip any holes needed to bring you back up to the group in front of you if you fall behind.

> Play ready Golf

> Play one golf ball

> No on course lessons.

>

>

 

Funny, the courses I play on, have that on the scorecards. And they all say they recommend that you keep the pace to be done in 4:30.

 

[new2g0lf]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @idrive said:

>

> >

> > The course recommends a playing time of _________ hours.

> > You will be asked to pick up and and skip any holes needed to bring you back up to the group in front of you if you fall behind.

> > Play ready Golf

> > Play one golf ball

> > No on course lessons.

> >

> >

>

> Funny, the courses I play on, have that on the scorecards. And they all say they recommend that you keep the pace to be done in 4:30.

>

 

My course has 4:15 printed but they rarely enforce it because it leads to awkward exchanges that no one wants to have with members in a private club.