Koepka on JB Holmes

[Lefthook]

There is a need to speed op the pro game, IMO. The ideal is that everybody who play golf play the same game, and as long as this is the case, the elite sets the tone.

 

I played Royal Portrush in September last year. We had the 3rd last tee-off time . In “theory” we had at least half an hour of headroom before dawn. But we had a bunch of “guided tour” flights in front of us Some of them play Ryder Cup and none of them try to keep up the pace.. Many of them behaved like JB on every shot and I bet none of them broke 87. It was a pita to Waitz on every Hole. We barely managed to complete the round. We was totally unable to see any ball flight off the 18th tee, and the fairways was so dark that even finding a ball in the fairway was pure guesswork. I was the lucky one and found my ball in play ... by now it was guesswork where the green was - even club face orientation was difficult. Somehow I managed to get my ball on the green in 3; I could see the hole, but green reading was pure guesswork... again. There’s a 3-4 min walk from the 18th to the club house. When we got there it was dark like in the night.

 

The links in Northen Ireland is among the best I’ve played, but I hesitate to go back because we experienced extremely slow play over there.

 

Slow play has become an increasing problem the last years ind Scotland and Ireland- and it seems to correlate with more us tourism. They seem to have all the time in the world.

 

I will start ignoring slow play by JB and others if Scotland and Ireland gets back to normal speed.

 

But right now I feel like slow play on the highest level should be regularly penalized - and anyone in front of me who plays so slow that I’m unable to complete my round should be thrown off the course.

 

 

[Yuck]

Now that Koepka has revealed this bothers him so much, and it affected his attitude and play, how will he ever win another major? Anyone who plays with him now knows how to break him.

 

BTW, I loathe slow play. Even 4 hour rounds are unbearably slow.

[moonshine]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @DrivingChamp said:

> >

>

> Sounds like sour grapes to me. When you shoot 74 on Sunday you have to blame somebody. Especially after bragging that you were playing better than everybody else.

 

Nah, men tell it like it is. Only a few low rounds sprinkled in....tough day IMO.

[musclefront]

> @powerpushfade said:

> > @musclefront said:

> > > @"Chef Otto" said:

> > > People who play slow are probably the same ones who recline their seats on a day time domestic flight. Rude and inconsiderate.

> >

> > I play fast because I’m loose and relaxed from reclining my seat on an airplane. There’s a reason there’s a button there to recline. It’s my choice to use it

>

> I might 'accidentally' spill my drink on your head if you reclined when I'm behind you. That would be my choice too

 

Internet tough guys are funny.

[OBbogey5]

Question for you guys on pace of play... when I’m recording my swing on the range, just about every video I take is 32 seconds long - start to stop. And I’m pretty sure I do the exact same thing on the course once I walk to my ball, i.e. shot routine.

 

Is that fast, slow, medium?

[idrive]

 

> @Yuck said:

> Now that Koepka has revealed this bothers him so much, and it affected his attitude and play, how will he ever win another major? Anyone who plays with him now knows how to break him.

>

> BTW, I loathe slow play. Even 4 hour rounds are unbearably slow.

 

With the course relatively full of foursomes I have no issues with a four hour round.

My Son and I with no one in front of us, three hours is just about perfect.

[xxio]

> @PapaJohick said:

> > @xxio said:

> > Whether we like it or not kids/ams emulate the Pros.

> >

> > Go to a playground and watch kids doing KD's shoulder shrug before taking freethrows

> >

> >

> > Watch high level junior golf. They take even longer than some Pros because that is what they see.

> >

> > It shouldn't be but it is.

> >

> > Maybe tons of penalties should be handed out at the elite junior level so they don't take the 2minute pre shot routine with them to the Pros

> >

>

> for real. There are a couple Jr. golfers at the course I play a lot here. They are good players. 8-11 years old, play from the red or gold tees and shoot 70-80 routinely. The issue..... They legit cannot hit a shot without going through at least a 1 minute routine and averaging around 90 to 120 seconds. They are good kids. While I do enjoy playing with them, after a few holes, I am typically only interacting with them on the green as while I am hitting about 10-12 more shots than they do, I am waiting on them to visualize or do whatever they do until they hit. I asked about it once and one kid said its because his coach tells him to think about stuff and that the pros seem to slow down and work on what they need to do in order to play well.

 

These kids are in mentally trouble if they are being told that at 8-11 years old. They will need 4 coaches when turn pro.

[DLBTide7]

> @mtex22 said:

> 87 shots must have felt like an eternity out there for Koepka!

 

J.B. did speed up his pace of play.... he did not plumb bob his 7 iron into the 18th green.

 

J.B. is insufferable to watch.

[oiler45]

I still maintain you can't solve a problem until you define what the problem is. What is the definition of slow play? If the course says a round should take 4:15 for a 4-some is that slow? If you like to play in 3 hours is 3.5 hours slow? If you're a group of high handicappers and you finish in 4.5 hours is that slow? My regular 4-some played last week - the course was not busy and there was no one in front of us and no one pushing us from behind. We played the front nine in 2 hours - the Marshall told us we had to pick things up - why? We told him 4 hours is a good pace - under the course suggested time and we were not holding anyone up. He blabbered on about ready golf and leaving the cart on the correct side - yeah right - STFU. The people who want to play in 3 hours are not "more right" than folks who feel 4 hours is a good pace. I cannot stand when speed obsessed groups want to play through when you are keeping up to the group in front - if there is an opening - sure - if not, too bad - find another hobby. No one likes a 5 hour round but guys who care more about their time to finish than their score are just as much a pain in the butt as slowpokes.

[Potatohead]

Bruce is right on this time.

 

Answer is chess clock. One hour, and two two minute time outs. Every minute over at the end of the day is one stroke added to your score.

[Nevy79]

Oiler... Spot on and brilliant. One of the best posts I have ever read on here.

[Vindog]

 

> @OBbogey5 said:

> Question for you guys on pace of play... when I’m recording my swing on the range, just about every video I take is 32 seconds long - start to stop. And I’m pretty sure I do the exact same thing on the course once I walk to my ball, i.e. shot routine.

>

> Is that fast, slow, medium?

 

You would be within the 40 second "time limit" proposal. Fast or slow is irrelevant.

[Vindog]

> @oiler45 said:

> I still maintain you can't solve a problem until you define what the problem is. What is the definition of slow play? If the course says a round should take 4:15 for a 4-some is that slow? If you like to play in 3 hours is 3.5 hours slow? If you're a group of high handicappers and you finish in 4.5 hours is that slow? My regular 4-some played last week - the course was not busy and there was no one in front of us and no one pushing us from behind. We played the front nine in 2 hours - the Marshall told us we had to pick things up - why? We told him 4 hours is a good pace - under the course suggested time and we were not holding anyone up. He blabbered on about ready golf and leaving the cart on the correct side - yeah right - STFU. The people who want to play in 3 hours are not "more right" than folks who feel 4 hours is a good pace. I cannot stand when speed obsessed groups want to play through when you are keeping up to the group in front - if there is an opening - sure - if not, too bad - find another hobby. No one likes a 5 hour round but guys who care more about their time to finish than their score are just as much a pain in the butt as slowpokes.

 

There is a thread in the rules folder where a poster called the ranger to speed the group ahead on hole 14 on a busy course, even though the group was well within the time par set by the course. The ranger didn't do anything citing the time par and their policy, and I feel like that was the "correct" move.

[Roadking2003]

> @OBbogey5 said:

> Question for you guys on pace of play... when I’m recording my swing on the range, just about every video I take is 32 seconds long - start to stop. And I’m pretty sure I do the exact same thing on the course once I walk to my ball, i.e. shot routine.

>

> Is that fast, slow, medium?

 

Plenty fast. But slow players usually waste time in a lot of other areas. Unfortunately, what we usually focus on is the time after the TV camera begins filming which can be highly misleading.

[golfer07840]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> >

> > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

>

> You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

 

Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

[golfer07840]

> @Yuck said:

> Now that Koepka has revealed this bothers him so much, and it affected his attitude and play, how will he ever win another major? Anyone who plays with him now knows how to break him.

>

> BTW, I loathe slow play. Even 4 hour rounds are unbearably slow.

 

If you honestly think 4 hours is slow for 18 holes of golf. Then you may want to find another hobby.

[golfer07840]

> @OBbogey5 said:

> Question for you guys on pace of play... when I’m recording my swing on the range, just about every video I take is 32 seconds long - start to stop. And I’m pretty sure I do the exact same thing on the course once I walk to my ball, i.e. shot routine.

>

> Is that fast, slow, medium?

 

I'd say that's quite normal. Slow play, as @Roadking2003 mentions are from other aspects. Not being ready to tee off when it's your turn because you're still in the cart or in your bag fumbling around for a tee. Or telling that story about the perfect draw you hit on that tee 9 years ago that seems to take an extra 5 mins every time you tell it (which by the way, the yardage in which you hit said drive has now increased by 30 yards).

 

My favorite is the guy who has a GPS unit, but chooses to go to his ball, get the yardage, THEN go back to his cart and grabs a club. Take 3 of them with you (you should already have a general idea how far you are). Also, he does this AFTER his partner has already hit. He was too busy sitting in the cart texting his wife that the round is taking too long.

 

It's those little things that add up.

[The Pearl]

> @golfer07840 said:

> > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> > >

> > > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

> >

> > You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

>

> Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

 

Yes

 

[lopey986]

> @Yuck said:

> Now that Koepka has revealed this bothers him so much, and it affected his attitude and play, how will he ever win another major? Anyone who plays with him now knows how to break him.

>

> BTW, I loathe slow play. Even 4 hour rounds are unbearably slow.

 

Yeah that worked out real well for JB Holmes didn't it? Lol.

[Soloman1]

For most amateurs, fast play is important so they can run to the car and drag race from red light to red light, swerving in and out of traffic so they can get home as quickly as possible to sit on the sofa and watch TV while munching on a bag of potato chips.

[munichop]

This discussion coupled with the driver testing once again reveals the arbitrary underpinning in the ruling bodies and their approach to officiating and regulating the game. Golfers are like moat competitors, they want straightforward rules under which to compete and equitable enforcement of those rules. In golf they get neither.

[gioguy21]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @golfer07840 said:

> > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> > > >

> > > > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

> > >

> > > You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

> >

> > Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

>

> Yes

>

 

so you'd rather me putt twice than once? i'm sure that takes less time eh?

[The Pearl]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> > > > >

> > > > > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

> > > >

> > > > You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

> > >

> > > Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

> >

> > Yes

> >

>

> so you'd rather me putt twice than once? i'm sure that takes less time eh?

 

Really? You one putt every time when you use your alignment aid? 5 seconds to use your alignment aid, assuming you execute it correctly each time? We all have sat in the fairway watching you guys fiddle with this, back off and fiddle with it again. In a foursome that uses it and two putts every green, equates to 12 minutes extra per round at 5 seconds alignment time for each putt....minimun. I suspect it takes longer as you guys don't just hit it after lining it up. It is backing off, checking to make sure it is correct and then start your routine. 5 seconds might be minimum at best. 4 guys with this routine would potentially add 15 minutes to a round.

 

If you think this speeds up your play, you are delusional. Furthermore, there was a study done that the data collected revealed that the error rate in the human lining up the arrow correctly was determined to be pure randomness. This is a complete superstitious behavior with zero positive outcome.

 

To answer your question directly, I prefer you to get on with it and putt quickly, whether it takes one putt or two. I suspect you are like most golfers who think they do everything quickly regardless of their routine, lacking the usual self-awareness as the general public at large. I also suspect many golfers could two-putt in the time it takes you to one putt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[gioguy21]

> @"The Pearl" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > @golfer07840 said:

> > > > > @"The Pearl" said:

> > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can't be serious. Where do think standing in the fairway watching the 20 hdcp spending two minutes trying to line up his aiming line on the ball towards his putting line come from? Or the ridiculous "it doesn't feel right so back off and start over again", or the "think box, hit box" garbage originate"?

> > > >

> > > > Why does everyone on this forum (well ok, not "everyone") have such hatred for the line on the ball when putting? Does it really slow you down that much?

> > >

> > > Yes

> > >

> >

> > so you'd rather me putt twice than once? i'm sure that takes less time eh?

>

> Really? You one putt every time when you use your alignment aid? 5 seconds to use your alignment aid, assuming you execute it correctly each time? We all have sat in the fairway watching you guys fiddle with this, back off and fiddle with it again. In a foursome that uses it and two putts every green, equates to 12 minutes extra per round at 5 seconds alignment time for each putt....minimun. I suspect it takes longer as you guys don't just hit it after lining it up. It is backing off, checking to make sure it is correct and then start your routine. 5 seconds might be minimum at best. 4 guys with this routine would potentially add 15 minutes to a round.

>

> If you think this speeds up your play, you are delusional.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

my point was that if me putting a line on my ball slows up play to such an extent it's measurable -- you are delusional.

 

lol

 

the type of person you speak of is the outlier. i've had a line on my ball for quite a few years now and don't take any longer to line up a putt than you would without one.

 

lighten up francis or go bowling.

 

 

[North Butte]

It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

 

If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

 

It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

 

But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

>

> If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

>

> It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

>

> But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

 

ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it. (i know you say you're ok with it but...i'll take your word for it. how you talk about those who do it doesn't appear to be 'ok' with it)

 

all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

[North Butte]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> >

> > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> >

> > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> >

> > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

>

> ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

>

> all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

 

Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there 4-1/2 hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace then for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > >

> > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > >

> > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > >

> > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> >

> > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> >

> > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

>

> Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there four hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

 

my point is i'm a fast playing golfer and no, my 'silly behavior' isn't holding anyone up OR is it wasting time.

 

the factors you guys are attributing to slow play are only a part of the equation IF the golfer themselves take a long time. these simple things are not by themselves the cause. those who take that long on a green are also more likely to take more time in the fairway, on the tee or other places before they even get to the green.

 

i've played with guys in tourneys who use lines, guys who don't, guys who waggle, etc, and we all know a slow golfer when we see it --- and we've never said, "he's a slow golfer b/c he aligns every putt"...its usually "that guy takes forever, regardless of the shot"

 

 

NB -- just wanted to apologize. i didn't mean to come at you or anything - i just think that the 'hate' towards guys who have lines on their balls for alignment is ridiculous - and completely misses the real issues with slow play.

[North Butte]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > >

> > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > >

> > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > >

> > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > >

> > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > >

> > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> >

> > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there four hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

>

> my point is i'm a fast playing golfer and no, my 'silly behavior' isn't holding anyone up OR is it wasting time.

>

> the factors you guys are attributing to slow play are only a part of the equation IF the golfer themselves take a long time. these simple things are not by themselves the cause. those who take that long on a green are also more likely to take more time in the fairway, on the tee or other places before they even get to the green.

>

> i've played with guys in tourneys who use lines, guys who don't, guys who waggle, etc, and we all know a slow golfer when we see it --- and we've never said, "he's a slow golfer b/c he aligns every putt"...its usually "that guy takes forever, regardless of the shot"

 

But it is wasting time. The wasted time may not matter if you're going to be waiting on even slower players. But it is wasted time. That's my only point.

 

As I observed upthread, everybody wants to do their own thing and in a lot of cases it doesn't amount to much if any real delay. And yet every year play on every course in the world gets slower and slower and slower as we accumulate all these things that may or may not matter.

 

You can't pretend that a 4-1/2 average round today on a course that 20 years ago averaged under 4 hours is caused by just a few "slow players" or by some specific factor or two. It's the accumulation of little time-wasting bits from a hundred different golfers, all doing their own thing. The alignment line thing came on the scene 5-10 years ago, it's just added to the list. There will be more in future.

 

P.S. Funny how stuff like that nobody in the world did at one point suddenly becomes fashionable. Yet those things never go away like a normal fad. Once they are widespread in the game, they stay forever!

[gioguy21]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @"North Butte" said:

> > > > > It doesn't have to be "measured", it does take time.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you walk up, set the ball down by the marker, then stand up and hit the putt that takes less time than walking up, setting the ball down, FIDDLING WITH THE ADJUSTMENT LINE, then stand up up and hit the putt. That's not a delusion, it could not be any other way.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's a selfish, superstitious behavior. And I'm fine with that. Some people waggle, some people plumb bob, some people do AimPoint, some people take practice swings. It's part of golf in the modern world. As long as you can do your silly routine without unduly holding up play go for it.

> > > > >

> > > > > But don't sit here and tell me it's faster to fiddle an alignment mark than to NOT fiddle an alignment mark. That's just nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > ah so, b/c you guys PERSONALLY have issues with me using a line on my ball...that is explicitly being struck as activities we need to stop doing. got it.

> > > >

> > > > all the things you list are behaviors that people do yet people are grossly offended by me lining up a putt? get over yourselves. seriously - btw, if you could catch up to me whilst playing - by all means play through. good luck. there are far more things in this game that take more time.

> > >

> > > Friend, I just said you are welcome to whatever silly behaviors you like on the putting green or anywhere else. Just don't be out there four hours doing it. Nobody told you to stop doing it. We told you you're wasting time. If you're otherwise moving along at a good pace for my part, I'm not going to get bent out of shape by that extra half-minute on every green.

> >

> > my point is i'm a fast playing golfer and no, my 'silly behavior' isn't holding anyone up OR is it wasting time.

> >

> > the factors you guys are attributing to slow play are only a part of the equation IF the golfer themselves take a long time. these simple things are not by themselves the cause. those who take that long on a green are also more likely to take more time in the fairway, on the tee or other places before they even get to the green.

> >

> > i've played with guys in tourneys who use lines, guys who don't, guys who waggle, etc, and we all know a slow golfer when we see it --- and we've never said, "he's a slow golfer b/c he aligns every putt"...its usually "that guy takes forever, regardless of the shot"

>

> But it is wasting time. The wasted time may not matter if you're going to be waiting on even slower players. But it is wasted time. That's my only point.

>

> As I observed upthread, everybody wants to do their own thing and in a lot of cases it doesn't amount to much if any real delay. And yet every year play on every course in the world gets slower and slower and slower as we accumulate all these things that may or may not matter.

>

> You can't pretend that a 4-1/2 average round today on a course that 20 years ago averaged under 4 hours is caused by just a few "slow players" or by some specific factor or two. It's the accumulation of little time-wasting bits from a hundred different golfers, all doing their own thing. The alignment line thing came on the scene 5-10 years ago, it's just added to the list. There will be more in future.

>

> P.S. Funny how stuff like that nobody in the world did at one point suddenly becomes fashionable. Yet those things never go away like a normal fad. Once they are widespread in the game, they stay forever!

 

wasting time for whom? if i believe that it helps me - who are you to tell me to stop? i've made more putts with the line than not.

 

i might think you walk too slow to your ball, or that your routine should be shorter by 5 seconds, equating to upwards of almost 5 minutes per round...(see where this goes?)

 

i think there's more evidence that people playing from incorrect tees, not playing ready golf, or overall not having course etiquette are much greater contributors to slow play than alignment aids.