Koepka on JB Holmes

[Holy Moses]

The 40 second rule on the PGA Tour is fine in theory, but if the players were held to that everyone would play faster and the TV times and scheduling would get messed up. There would be fewer commercials and the Tour would make less money. If the Tour wanted to enforce the 40 second rule even if a group isn’t a hole behind, they would have to factor that into their TV scheduling so there isn’t 30 minutes of extra time once a tournament is finished. I don’t know how you can fix slow play before than apart from timing and then penalizing players who get a hole behind.

[Roadking2003]

> @Lagavulin62 said:

> That makes sense because when I watched him he didn't seem slow to me. But I see now where the problem is. I read once where Nicklaus had a similar problem when he first came on tour. He said he was trying to be respectful and not disturb his partners. That's why he wouldn't start anything until it was his turn. So one day Jack got called on that by some head of the tour and he adjusted. Maybe that's all JB needs?

>

 

JB isn't that slow. It's just that when the TV guys say he is and then everyone repeats it, it becomes fact. On Saturday, they were 1/2 to one hole behind and Shane was hitting into deep rough and looking for balls all day. That's no big deal.

 

Yes, has has had some bad moments like waiting on the 18 fairway last year, but overall, people are just parroting what the TV guys say and BK is whining about.

[Roadking2003]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> Not saying Brooks is necessarily wrong about JB, but he would be faster than just about any player on Tour. Stuff like this can be handled in a different way as opposed to always calling out others in the media.

 

This is true. What BK fails to realize is that overly fast players can be just as irritating as slow players. BK is just using his "I've won four majors" bully pulpit.

[Birdie Mac]

> @new2g0lf said:

> People should be intelligent enough to know that if they are just playing a friendly game of golf they shouldn't emulate what the pro's are doing. There's no need for 20 practice swings, multiple walks across a green, etc, take a few practice swings if you have to and hit the **** ball. I watch H.S. baseball and football games all the the time, their games don't take as long as the pro's, not sure why golfers think they need to emulate what the pro's do when it's likely they have no idea even why the pro's do half the stuff they do.

>

> I have golf buddies that do the whole practice swing routine, 5 practice swings or more then chunk the ball, or guys that use their rangefinder to shoot every hazard and the flag then hook or slice the ball nowhere near their intended landing spot. I tell them, if you're not a single digit handicapper, playing in a tournament or for big money your #1 priority is to finish a 4 some round in under 4 hours as the club rules dictate. Let's stop worrying about what the pro's do and focus on what golfers are doing on our courses.

Played a tournament Saturday and had several long waits on the teebox while the foursome in front of us sat in their carts watching each other hit from the fairway rather than picking their clubs, aligning and swinging. Add in extra time for conversations, practice swings and for them to 'get in the zone' before they address the ball. Ready golf, guys.

 

[lopey986]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @chrismikayla said:

> > A little gamesmanship from JB? He had to know slow play would get under his skin

>

> Must have gotten under his own skin, shooting a smooth 87 on sunday, second worst score of the entire tournament, second only to Duval's 91 that had a 14 on the card.

 

Lmao cost him like 700 grand and exemptions to a bunch of tourney's. Solid gamesmanship from JB.

[JD3]

Yeah i was only a casual observer yesterday due to lowrya big lead, but I didn't notice anything different about JBs play. In general however what Brooks said is true about being ready when it's your turn: get in all your preshot prep and work like green reading you can while it's the turn of others in your group.

[Roadking2003]

> @EricWGolf said:

> Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

 

Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

 

[lopey986]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @EricWGolf said:

> > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

>

> Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

>

 

They very rarely put anyone on the clock. I don't think they really care if guys play 5 hour rounds and they air golf for 12 hours straight, it's just more time to run commercials.

[tatertot]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @EricWGolf said:

> > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

>

> Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

>

 

So it's just a coincidence so many people complain about him and he's known as the human rain delay? Or is everybody just out to get him?

[Roadking2003]

> @tatertot said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> >

> > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> >

>

> So it's just a coincidence so many people complain about him and he's known as the human rain delay? Or is everybody just out to get him?

 

Neither. Once the media convinces the viewers that something is true, everybody runs with it. Happens all the time on all topics.

[Roadking2003]

> @lopey986 said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> >

> > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> >

>

> They very rarely put anyone on the clock. I don't think they really care if guys play 5 hour rounds ....

 

Neither do I.

 

[LICC]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @EricWGolf said:

> > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

>

> Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

>

 

Really? You seriously think JB Holmes is not slow with his pace of play? Other players, announcers, etc. all say how slow he is.

[buckeyefl]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @tatertot said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> > >

> > > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> > >

> >

> > So it's just a coincidence so many people complain about him and he's known as the human rain delay? Or is everybody just out to get him?

>

> Neither. Once the media convinces the viewers that something is true, everybody runs with it. Happens all the time on all topics.

 

except in this case its real and not media driven. Hes slow, too slow and its not in anyones imagination.

[salmon1a]

I'm glad Koepka called him out on it, but for the sake of his own game, he needed to be more patient and find a way to not let if affect him. From the first tee you could see his annoyance when JB deliberated club selection - it appeared K went into Sunday with a negative attitude based on who he was paired with.

[Roadking2003]

> @LICC said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> >

> > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> >

>

> Really? You seriously think JB Holmes is not slow with his pace of play? Other players, announcers, etc. all say how slow he is.

 

How many times has JB been penalized for slow play? How many times has JB's group been put on the clock?

 

JB is probably slower than the average pro, but once a reputation has been established it doesn't matter what the facts are.

[LICC]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> > >

> > > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> > >

> >

> > Really? You seriously think JB Holmes is not slow with his pace of play? Other players, announcers, etc. all say how slow he is.

>

> How many times has JB been penalized for slow play? How many times has JB's group been put on the clock?

>

> JB is probably slower than the average pro, but once a reputation has been established it doesn't matter what the facts are.

 

How often has anyone been put on the clock or penalized? As to penalties, the PGA Tour just never does it.

[gvogel]

JB is not only slow before he hits his shot, he is slow after he hits his shot. I remember watching him yesterday, and he hit a bad shot. And he stood still, just staring, in disbelief. No movement for more than a few seconds.

The guy is just terminally slow.

[new2g0lf]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > @new2g0lf said:

> > People should be intelligent enough to know that if they are just playing a friendly game of golf they shouldn't emulate what the pro's are doing. There's no need for 20 practice swings, multiple walks across a green, etc, take a few practice swings if you have to and hit the **** ball. I watch H.S. baseball and football games all the the time, their games don't take as long as the pro's, not sure why golfers think they need to emulate what the pro's do when it's likely they have no idea even why the pro's do half the stuff they do.

> >

> > I have golf buddies that do the whole practice swing routine, 5 practice swings or more then chunk the ball, or guys that use their rangefinder to shoot every hazard and the flag then hook or slice the ball nowhere near their intended landing spot. I tell them, if you're not a single digit handicapper, playing in a tournament or for big money your #1 priority is to finish a 4 some round in under 4 hours as the club rules dictate. Let's stop worrying about what the pro's do and focus on what golfers are doing on our courses.

> Played a tournament Saturday and had several long waits on the teebox while the foursome in front of us sat in their carts watching each other hit from the fairway rather than picking their clubs, aligning and swinging. Add in extra time for conversations, practice swings and for them to 'get in the zone' before they address the ball. Ready golf, guys.

>

 

That's my point, JB playing slow or not isn't a problem for me, it's a problem for his peers competing against him. What is a problem for me is the guys that can't discern the difference between a casual round of golf and what the pro's are playing and the need to focus on pace of play. I don't want people to rush, i want them to be ready, I want them to measure their distance and if possible pick their club in advance. If you need a take a few practice swings or Aimpoint a putt, go for it, but do it quickly.

 

I don't care what the pro's do, local courses have to enforce pace of play, but no one wants to tell the drunk 4 some that is hacking up the course or long standing members that think they are competing at the US Open to pick up the pace, so we all suffer.

[Roadking2003]

> @LICC said:>

> How often has anyone been put on the clock or penalized?

 

Good question. What is the answer?

 

 

[sdsteb]

 

Played yesterday at a local club with a couple friends. Went off at 9:30 and apparently they had a club championship going on. I took this pic to show the club pro, we were the 4th in line to tee off and waiting for a good 15 minutes on some of the holes. We were not impressed. The group ahead of us was not in the tournament either.

[TheInfidel]

The tour pros need to #BeMoreBrooks

Let JB putt on the green alone, walk ahead and hit your tee ball. Heck, call him out and tell him to get ready if he's hitting second.

Zinger lit him up on the coverage at the weekend for taking 8 mins to hit a shot OB. There cannot ever be enough hate for JB and others, e.g. Cantlay.

The court of popular opinion has lots of sway, the only reason Kuch walked back his prejudicial comments from Mexico is because sponsors turned on him and the public rejected his behaviour. It could work here too.

[mocokid]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @JaNelson38 said:

> > Not saying Brooks is necessarily wrong about JB, but he would be faster than just about any player on Tour. Stuff like this can be handled in a different way as opposed to always calling out others in the media.

>

> This is true. What BK fails to realize is that overly fast players can be just as irritating as slow players. BK is just using his "I've won four majors" bully pulpit.

 

Gotta be horrible with a slow player who's on his way to a +16 for the day, it's not just the slo play in this case.

[JaNelson38]

> @"Rory Mcilwoods" said:

> had to be said....it's crazy that the buffoon doesn't even think about his shot until its his turn

>

>

 

Breaking news: most guys dont think about their shot in earnest until their turn. Most guys have an IDEA of the shot they want to play when they get to their ball once they get their yardage, but unless they are away and hitting first, almost everyone waits to see how their competitors's balls go, so they can get an idea on wind, how the greens are holding, etc. How many times have you watched pro golf and seen guys switch clubs or go back to their yardage books and change their strategy after watching their competitors air mail a green, or come up a club short? Happens all the time.

 

At 15 minutes per hole, which is a more than fair walking time frame for PGA Tour guys in threesomes, you will complete a round in 4 1/2 hours. The fact that this time frame is looked upon by so many as "slow", especially with the amount of other golfers on the course at the same time, is ludicrous.

 

Im all for finding ways to shave minutes off of rounds, but this idea that slow play is some sort of problem that is dragging down pro golf is absurd. Its not. Slow play is a problem with hacking amateurs who have to spend 10 minutes looking for every tee ball they hit, or the twosome that is stuck behind the drunken foursome that wont let them play through. Its not a problem with touring professionals playing for seven figures every week.

[TheInfidel]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @chrismikayla said:

> > A little gamesmanship from JB? He had to know slow play would get under his skin

>

> Must have gotten under his own skin, shooting a smooth 87 on sunday, second worst score of the entire tournament, second only to Duval's 91 that had a 14 on the card.

 

It's also delightful that Duval's R1 score versus JBs R4 would have resulted in a 3&2 win for DD. LOL

[cardoustie]

Anyone that watches JB cannot surely feel he's not that slow. Others surely saw his drawn out fiasco at Torrey. How long did that layup on the 18th take when he could have easily reached ... it was pathetic.

[mocokid]

Brooks should not have been PO'd over this, a lot had to do with the score, watching an 87 must have been horrific. Surely, if Holmes was on this way to a 6_, there would have been less agita on BK part. Taking an extra +16 shots, is frustrating and time consuming to watch.

[EricWGolf]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @EricWGolf said:

> > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

>

> Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

>

 

Or maybe I’ve also had the opportunity to watch him play in person several times (in addition to seeing him on television when he’s in the hunt and they keep the camera on him.) And it’s not just the WRX circlejerk that knows he’s slow. It’s mainstream media, players, and fans: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/jb-holmes-cbs-slow-play-reaction

 

He’s that slow. Slower than Day. Slower than Spieth. Slower than Dechambeau.

 

If television followed only his group, instead of cutting to other groups while Holmes is standing around, you would be pulling your hair out and screaming at the TV at exactly how bad it is. Other players (including those not named Koepka) turn their back on him with their hands on their hips in frustration. If other players can’t force Holmes to speed up to a ridiculous pace, he shouldn’t be able to slow them down to a snail’s pace.

[buckeyefl]

> @mocokid said:

> Brooks should not have been PO'd over this, a lot had to do with the score, watching an 87 must have been horrific. Surely, if Holmes was on this way to a 6_, there would have been less agita on BK part. Taking an extra +16 shots, is frustrating and time consuming to watch.

 

It would be a slow 87 or a slow 59. It's all relative and he's slooowwwwww

[tatertot]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @tatertot said:

> > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > @EricWGolf said:

> > > > Holmes has been on tour for 15 years. No way he doesn’t know proper procedure and etiquette. He just thinks it helps him play better so he doesn’t care how/if it effects other players.

> > >

> > > Or maybe he's not that slow. How many times in the last year has his group been put on the clock?

> > >

> >

> > So it's just a coincidence so many people complain about him and he's known as the human rain delay? Or is everybody just out to get him?

>

> Neither. Once the media convinces the viewers that something is true, everybody runs with it. Happens all the time on all topics.

 

The dude is s-l-o-w. Why would the "media" be out to get him?

[Man_O_War]

i agree..fast play can be detrimental also...but slow play is the most irritating. There's a new rule by the R& A where a ready player can play ahead of the slow player.

Sergio was hitting before Cantley on a few holes..even though he was ahead of him in the fairway..won't help much but at least..you don't have to wait before your shot. Play ready golf, but it's part of the pressure of the game to play in turn..the slow snails are spoiling this art