Koepka on JB Holmes

[EricWGolf]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> We all know slow play exists. JB was not on anyone's clock. Koepka it's getting old. If you are thrown off by slow play, learn to deal with it or you are not a champion golfer.

 

So if Koepka is allowed to hit his shot out of turn because he plays better when he plays fast; then walks to his next shot and hits it, to the point that Holmes (theoretically) is forced to start running to keep up . . . should Holmes simply deal with it?

 

And before you say “that can’t happen” . . . well, that’s a large portion of my point here: one style of play, which detrimentally affects other players, is tacitly allowed while the converse is not.

[tatertot]

> @tannyhoban said:

> > @Lagavulin62 said:

> > That makes sense because when I watched him he didn't seem slow to me. But I see now where the problem is. I read once where Nicklaus had a similar problem when he first came on tour. He said he was trying to be respectful and not disturb his partners. That's why he wouldn't start anything until it was his turn. So one day Jack got called on that by some head of the tour and he adjusted. Maybe that's all JB needs?

> >

>

> Nic> @Lagavulin62 said:

> > That makes sense because when I watched him he didn't seem slow to me. But I see now where the problem is. I read once where Nicklaus had a similar problem when he first came on tour. He said he was trying to be respectful and not disturb his partners. That's why he wouldn't start anything until it was his turn. So one day Jack got called on that by some head of the tour and he adjusted. Maybe that's all JB needs?

> >

>

> NicKlaus was slow all the way through his career. I hated watching him play because of it. Good for Brooks.

 

Nicklaus took a long time over the ball ... While never a fast player, he avoided being a slow one by wasting little time getting to his ball and being ready to hit when his turn came.

 

This is what BK ... Ansd EVERYBODY'S ... Problem with Holmes is. He always seems startled when it's his turn, like he's not expecting it. On the first tee today, it genuinely looked like he didn't even start to think about his first shot until AFTER his name was announced. And he's like that on every shot.

[sui generis]

> @tatertot said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > "the 40 second rule (sic)"

> > is NOT a Rule.

> >

>

> Actually, the PGA Tour does have a 40-second rule, which they are allowed to establish under USGA Rule 6-7.

>

> The PGA explains the rule thusly:

>

> The PGA TOUR rules for pace of play includes the 40-second time limit, but also allows an extra 20 seconds (for a total of 60 seconds) under the following circumstances:

> > The first player to play a stroke on a par-3 hole

> > The first player to play a second stroke on a par-4 or par-5 hole

> > The first player to play a third stroke on a par-5 hole

> > The first player to play around the putting green

> > The first player to play on a putting green

>

> Under both sets of guidelines, the timing of a stroke on the putting green begins after a player has been allowed a reasonable amount of time to mark, lift, clean and replace his ball, repair his ball mark and other ball marks on his line of putt and remove loose impediments on his line of putt.

>

 

Indeed it becomes a Rule by way of a hard card or Terms of the Competition, but only when the group is out of position. That said, professional golf has no interest in enforcing such an imposition on its players. The money machine is way, way too powerful. Professional golf doesn't give a monkey's. They really only care about players and caddies smoking cigarettes or players wearing shorts. LOL

 

I referee all season long for a regional golf association, D1 college invitationals, high school championships, USGA qualifiers and the AJGA. The ONLY organization which cares about pace of play is AJGA and they really, really get after it.

[bladehunter]

> @00steven said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

>

> When you win 4 majors you earn the right to say things.

 

Lol. So the line is 4? That’s good to know. My original thought for an example was Jordan. Good to know that his whining turns into gospel after the next major win. Wow

[Lakeeffectgolf]

These guys are playing for 1 point (fill in the blank) million dollars first place prize money every week. Screw'em! Penalize these guys. Speed up play. If your doing it correctly the clock isn't a issue.

[MadGolfer76]

I still like JB. Koepka is complaining about something that has been a perpetual problem in professional golf for decades. It won't ever change until the people charged with enforcing the rules are held accountable by the folks who run the show. Either take the complaint directly to the tour, or move on. Snarky comments on social media keep folks' attention until the next person starts complaining about something else.

[EricWGolf]

> @MadGolfer76 said:

> Either take the complaint directly to the tour, or move on. Snarky comments on social media keep folks' attention until the next person starts complaining about something else.

 

But complaints directly to the Tour clearly haven’t worked. And social media pressure has worked on many occasions. So what does he have to lose? The real problem is that Koepka just may not have the charisma to rally the pressure he wants.

[new2g0lf]

People should be intelligent enough to know that if they are just playing a friendly game of golf they shouldn't emulate what the pro's are doing. There's no need for 20 practice swings, multiple walks across a green, etc, take a few practice swings if you have to and hit the damn ball. I watch H.S. baseball and football games all the the time, their games don't take as long as the pro's, not sure why golfers think they need to emulate what the pro's do when it's likely they have no idea even why the pro's do half the stuff they do.

 

I have golf buddies that do the whole practice swing routine, 5 practice swings or more then chunk the ball, or guys that use their rangefinder to shoot every hazard and the flag then hook or slice the ball nowhere near their intended landing spot. I tell them, if you're not a single digit handicapper, playing in a tournament or for big money your #1 priority is to finish a 4 some round in under 4 hours as the club rules dictate. Let's stop worrying about what the pro's do and focus on what golfers are doing on our courses.

[jgallant415]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> > @jgallant415 said:

> > For anyone in the “Brooks has to adjust to slow play” camp, I ask “why?” What good reason is there that everyone else needs to adjust to the pace of the slower players instead of making the sloths hurry the heck up? Slow play sucks, period, and I’m not really sure what argument can be made against playing at a reasonable pace.

>

> Because every generation had slow players that the greats have overcome. Not saying slow play isn’t a problem but

> 1) JB sucked today

> 2) The group was not behind.

> 3) JB may have a medical condition that can cause difficulty in his focus.

>

>

>

>

So by that logic we should never try to fix any problems because prior generations have had to deal with them? And why should slow play be the obstacle that needs to be overcome? Why shouldn’t slow players need to overcome the obstacle of playing at a reasonable pace? I’m not saying the pros need to be playing sub-4 hour rounds, but JB can probably manage to put on his glove while his partner is playing his shot...

 

[MadGolfer76]

> @EricWGolf said:

> > @MadGolfer76 said:

> > Either take the complaint directly to the tour, or move on. Snarky comments on social media keep folks' attention until the next person starts complaining about something else.

>

> But complaints directly to the Tour clearly haven’t worked. And social media pressure has worked on many occasions. So what does he have to lose? The real problem is that Koepka just may not have the charisma to rally the pressure he wants.

That would presume we are aware of individual tour pros reaching out to the PGA Tour leadership for a discussion of their frustrations on slow play, and I (at least) am not aware of any of them doing so as they are likely kept private if they happen at all. All I know of is online complaining, which is a different thing.

 

[xxio]

A club has a rule 4some under 4 hours?

That is extreme. I prefer walking 18. My foursome/fivesome takes 4.5hours and we let faster/smaller groups through.

 

I played in 3 hours and 10 minutes with a 6some last Saturday. Speeding around in carts. There was zero social aspect. I did not enjoy that round, it felt like playing golf by meslf.

[OldTomMorris]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @OldTomMorris said:

> "the 40 second rule (sic)"

> is NOT a Rule.

>

>

Yeah I realise it's only a guideline applied once a group/player is on the clock.

[2bGood]

> @bladehunter said:

> **Bruce** is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

 


 

I think you mean Brooks

 

[philly2kuk]

I always thought the etiquette suggestion was keep up with the group in front, not just ahead of the group behind. If JB and Brooks we’re keeping up then he needs to deal with it. If they were losing ground then fair comment. Obviously shooting 87 means he’s going to take longer....

 

It’s an issue that’ll never be solved. As someone that’s neither fast nor slow, the only thing as bad as the group in front holding you up when they’re three holes behind those in front of them, is the fast group behind you when you’ve nowhere to go because you’re right behind the group in front of you! I’ve also found fast players admit they’re fast but slow players never admit they’re slow.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

> @tatertot said:

> > @"sui generis" said:

> > > @OldTomMorris said:

> > "the 40 second rule (sic)"

> > is NOT a Rule.

> >

>

> Actually, the PGA Tour does have a 40-second rule, which they are allowed to establish under USGA Rule 6-7.

>

> The PGA explains the rule thusly:

>

> The PGA TOUR rules for pace of play includes the 40-second time limit, but also allows an extra 20 seconds (for a total of 60 seconds) under the following circumstances:

> > The first player to play a stroke on a par-3 hole

> > The first player to play a second stroke on a par-4 or par-5 hole

> > The first player to play a third stroke on a par-5 hole

> > The first player to play around the putting green

> > The first player to play on a putting green

>

> Under both sets of guidelines, the timing of a stroke on the putting green begins after a player has been allowed a reasonable amount of time to mark, lift, clean and replace his ball, repair his ball mark and other ball marks on his line of putt and remove loose impediments on his line of putt.

>

 

Woosh

[buckeyefl]

> @chrismikayla said:

> A little gamesmanship from JB? He had to know slow play would get under his skin

 

No just inconsiderate, self centered mental case.

[buckeyefl]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> Do you ever think his surgery on his brain may be causing some of his thinking processes? I like Koepka but he's got to get use to others pace of play. Every great golf does. Didn't hear Lowrey complaining yesterday? Wasn't he playing with JB? You're haters and Koepka is your man, he can do no wrong. You all got your heads so far up your arses you can see the back of you teeth.

 

It has nothing to do with surgery or BK. He's ridiculously slow and always has been. Some people are jump more considerate than JB and stay silent while goes through his antics.

[buckeyefl]

> @Pent08 said:

> The response here to what Koepka said is exactly why Tour players don't admonish the slow guys.

 

Exactly

[Rory Mcilwoods]

had to be said....it's crazy that the buffoon doesn't even think about his shot until its his turn

 

 

[buckeyefl]

> @idrive said:

> > @00steven said:

> > Becoming more of a Koepka fan as the days go on.

>

> Just the opposite for me. Whiners drop straight to the bottom of the I'm a fan of list.

 

Define whiner.

[OldTomMorris]

> @xxio said:

> A club has a rule 4some under 4 hours?

> That is extreme. I prefer walking 18. My foursome/fivesome takes 4.5hours and we let faster/smaller groups through.

>

> I played in 3 hours and 10 minutes with a 6some last Saturday. Speeding around in carts. There was zero social aspect. I did not enjoy that round, it felt like playing golf by meslf.

 

Recently I've heard of some golf courses that don't allow foursomes and they limit it to threesomes as a way to increase the pace of play of recreational golf. Another approach is to remove almost all of the most penal rough which I think is a good idea for recreational golf - thats a different debate altogether.

[NoFancyUsername.]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy..lol...i can't remember the last time i shot 87 :smile:

[Kevinnz]

Well personally i agree with brooks that at least at the tour level, its more of a courtesy to playing partners that the player gets the glove on, club ready, distance right etc while waiting for another player doing their shot.

However, some ppl are just born to play slowly. I am a typical fast player, wasting no time. But, my elder son is surely a slow player. Ever since he starts playing on the course from 6yo, hes always taking his time calculating distance, selecting club and going through his routine. He is just never in a hurry, too bad.

[Bye]

A fine or a penalty shot wouldn’t have been much motivation for him to get moving.

 

 

[xxio]

> @OldTomMorris said:

> > @xxio said:

> > A club has a rule 4some under 4 hours?

> > That is extreme. I prefer walking 18. My foursome/fivesome takes 4.5hours and we let faster/smaller groups through.

> >

> > I played in 3 hours and 10 minutes with a 6some last Saturday. Speeding around in carts. There was zero social aspect. I did not enjoy that round, it felt like playing golf by meslf.

>

> Recently I've heard of some golf courses that don't allow foursomes and they limit it to threesomes as a way to increase the pace of play of recreational golf. Another approach is to remove almost all of the most penal rough which I think is a good idea for recreational golf - thats a different debate altogether.

 

I have heard some courses in the UK will only allow 2 balls on Saturday afternoons. They will let 4 players play as long as they only use 2 balls, alternate shot I guess.

 

My buddies went out in 2- 2somes instead- which they allowed ?

[Vindog]

The R&A is never shy about putting groups on the clock. The PGA Tour had nothing to do with this event. Did the R&A ever put them on the clock or issue JB a warning or were they out of position for a hole? I didn't notice that at all.

 

> @00steven said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

>

> When you win 4 majors you earn the right to say things.

 

What a bunch of bull.

 

Nobody in this thread has won 4 majors though, and there is some serious whining, crap slinging going on.

[Naptime]

The shot clock hasn’t killed basketball competition. Put him on the clock and dock him a stroke every extra 40 secs.

[Hawkeye77]

Don't really get the level of personal attack leveled at JB. Nobody posting has any real skin in the game of the final round, or any round, of a major or any other Tour event so far as I know. As for slow play in general, If and when the players on the PGA Tour really want something done about it, it will be done. Euro Tour does some enforcement so there seems to be a way to do it. As for the majors in particular and how they run things, IMO, things slow down a bit sometimes, and here weather and really bad play on Sunday was an obvious factor. He's singled out this week, and of course for his angst at Torrey a year or two ago. But overall, not really a "major" problem to me. Would I like to see them play a little brisker pace? Sure. Excluding a few turtles do I get why the pace overall isn't as fast as we would play? Pretty obvious answer there.

 

He isn't the only problem, but based on comments outside the world of wrx it's not like the entire Tour membership is all that worked up about it.

 

Tournaments still seem to get done when they plan for them to be done most of the time, so doesn't really affect my personal schedule, which isn't the issue anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

[Vindog]

I watched the whole broadcast and I barely even noticed him on TV. What were you all watching?

[8602081]

> @Kevinnz said:

> Well personally i agree with brooks that at least at the tour level, its more of a courtesy to playing partners that the player gets the glove on, club ready, distance right etc while waiting for another player doing their shot.

> However, some ppl are just born to play slowly. I am a typical fast player, wasting no time. But, my elder son is surely a slow player. Ever since he starts playing on the course from 6yo, hes always taking his time calculating distance, selecting club and going through his routine. He is just never in a hurry, too bad.

 

“That's what I don't understand when it's your turn to hit, your glove is not on, then you start thinking about it, that's where the problem lies,” Koepka said. “It's not that he takes that long. He doesn't do anything until his turn. That's the frustrating part. But he's not the only one that does it out here.”

 

I can see this be annoyance.. I agree with Koepka..

Makes me like him just a little..