Koepka on JB Holmes

[Roadking2003]

> @"North Butte" said:

> The only influence that a Tour player can have on the morons who are selfishly ruining the game is to shame them, call them out, tell them to speed up or otherwise apply peer pressure.

 

I don't know any tour players who are "selfishly ruining the game". As a spectator, I have no problem with their pace of play and it is not ruining the game from my view.

[Roadking2003]

> @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

 

That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

[smoothie4896]

> @cardoustie said:

> The slow play / prep is a crutch for players to mentally prepare / get ready for the shot at hand ... and soften the nerves. And it is for EVERY shot now, even the standard ones from the centre of the fairway. It has morphed in OVER ANALYZING and DeShampoo isn't helping matters FWIW

> This has to be stopped with JB .... and all the other flagrant violators.

> It's infuriating to me because these guys are the best in the world. You should know how far your knock down 8 iron flies into a 20mph wind.

> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club. I don't need to watch a 20 capper reading an 8 footer from four sides for a triple. Hit me in nuts with a wrench instead. You've been a member here for 15 years, you know what the putt does FFS

 

 

 

 

[North Butte]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > The only influence that a Tour player can have on the morons who are selfishly ruining the game is to shame them, call them out, tell them to speed up or otherwise apply peer pressure.

>

> I don't know any tour players who are "selfishly ruining the game". As a spectator, I have no problem with their pace of play and it is not ruining the game from my view.

 

As a TV viewer, it's gotten so bad that even with a DVR and ample amounts of fast-forward available I can only watch golf in doses of an hour or two at a time, at most. And that's only if it's an interesting course.

 

I routinely DVR past the "routine" antics of any number of players from the aforementioned Holmes to Keegan Bradley, Jim Furyk, Jason Day, the list goes on and on. I used to be a big fan of Jason Day, love his golf swing and game. But I haven't seen him hit 10 shots in the past 3-4 years. He's become a parody of himself.

 

Glad you enjoy seeing highly paid gentlemen standing around doing absolutely nothing for long periods of time. Enjoy your golf spectating.

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @tiderider said:

> Azinger said he’d had 24 hours to think about it and still couldn’t make up his mind .... glad bk is willing to keep saying something about it ...

 

I was actually quite happy when I heard him make that comment. It's not like he didn't have plenty of time after his round on Saturday to know what the weather was going to be doing, wind, etc. on what he was going to hit on that shot.

[Big Ben]

I’m not for speed golf but SLOW golf totally sucks. It wears me out sitting there wondering if somebody had a brain anyorysum.

[PostandGhost]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

>

> That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

 

It happens at my club. It was pretty funny when Camillo busted on the scene. Those poor middle age men trying to read putts.

[Bad9]

> @new2g0lf said:

> People should be intelligent enough to know that if they are just playing a friendly game of golf they shouldn't emulate what the pro's are doing. There's no need for 20 practice swings, multiple walks across a green, etc, take a few practice swings if you have to and hit the **** ball. I watch H.S. baseball and football games all the the time, their games don't take as long as the pro's, not sure why golfers think they need to emulate what the pro's do when it's likely they have no idea even why the pro's do half the stuff they do.

>

> I have golf buddies that do the whole practice swing routine, 5 practice swings or more then chunk the ball, or guys that use their rangefinder to shoot every hazard and the flag then hook or slice the ball nowhere near their intended landing spot. I tell them, if you're not a single digit handicapper, playing in a tournament or for big money your #1 priority is to finish a 4 some round in under 4 hours as the club rules dictate. Let's stop worrying about what the pro's do and focus on what golfers are doing on our courses.

 

People should be intelligent enough but they are not. I played behind a foursome(two dads, two teenagers and an 8yr old so I guess 5). I was literally on the same tee as them 4 of 9 holes. Watched one of the teenagers take 3 practice swings before every shot and he probably shanked half of them. Real live shanks. Then he would take two or three more to figure out what he did wrong. The others weren't as bad but not good either. Not once did they offer to let me through. Even at the turn when they stopped for a hot dog and we were standing on the patio together. When I walked over to the 10th tee and they were still eating did they let me go.

[tiderider]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

>

> That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

 

correct

[BiggErn]

> @BiggErn said:

> > @lopey986 said:

> > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

> > >

> > > It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

> >

> > Everyone does play the same course. You know what everyone doesn't have to do? Play with JB Holmes.

>

> Until they do....then in BK’s case he whines. When things are going good nobody whines. BK just showed he’s a hypocrite.

 

And the USGA was ruining US Open set ups before he was on tour.

 

 

 

 

[BiggErn]

> @lopey986 said:

> > @BiggErn said:

> > > @lopey986 said:

> > > > @BiggErn said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

> > > >

> > > > It’s funny when the USGA craps the bed with the US Open and when guys complain they’re whining but when Koepka says everyone plays the same course he’s somehow the “bigger person”. Now he whines about playing with a slow guy and somehow he’s pretending to bring light to an issue everyone has known about forever. I guess it’s like the ones so enamored with him and compare him to an NFL player for wearing muscle shirt polos.

> > >

> > > Everyone does play the same course. You know what everyone doesn't have to do? Play with JB Holmes.

> >

> > Until they do....then in BK’s case he whines. When things are going good nobody whines. BK just showed he’s a hypocrite.

>

> Hypocrite. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

> BK has been consistent in his criticism of slow play since Day 1.

 

And the USGA was ruining US Open set ups before he was on tour. I suppose it’s a non issue until it affects him. Then he cries.

[cardoustie]

> @tiderider said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> >

> > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

>

> correct

 

disagree with both of you. Golfers are great emulators

[buckeyefl]

> @tbowles411 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > Don't really get the level of personal attack leveled at JB. Nobody posting has any real skin in the game of the final round, or any round, of a major or any other Tour event so far as I know. As for slow play in general, If and when the players on the PGA Tour really want something done about it, it will be done. Euro Tour does some enforcement so there seems to be a way to do it. As for the majors in particular and how they run things, IMO, things slow down a bit sometimes, and here weather and really bad play on Sunday was an obvious factor. He's singled out this week, and of course for his angst at Torrey a year or two ago. But overall, not really a "major" problem to me. Would I like to see them play a little brisker pace? Sure. Excluding a few turtles do I get why the pace overall isn't as fast as we would play? Pretty obvious answer there.

> > >

> > > He isn't the only problem, but based on comments outside the world of wrx it's not like the entire Tour membership is all that worked up about it.

> > >

> > > Tournaments still seem to get done when they plan for them to be done most of the time, so doesn't really affect my personal schedule, which isn't the issue anyway.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Have to agree hawk. While I hate slow play, for some reason JB is hard to just hate. Brooks. Easy. But JB. I find it tough. Someone just needs to grab him and say “ hey guy. We have to figure this out. What can we do here “? And start an actual conversation, not just a pitchfork wielding mob. I doubt JB cusses the room out and refuses. Just an idea.

> Some people find it easy to hate JB for this reason, which is ridiculous. Let's run him out of the game! He's slow and should be shot! Bull! BK and everyone else can speak about this until they're blue in the face but until the PGA Tour starts assessing shots, nothing is going to change. And they are in no hurry to do that and they players know it. JB is not the only slow one. This whole "I have 4 majors and you should listen to me" thing is really beginning to wear thin on me.

>

 

I think "hate" is a little strong.

No one said run him out if the game.

No one said shoot him.

No one said he was the only slow one.

Just because the tour isn't doing there job doesn't mean the players shouldn't speak out. How else do you bring on change?

Plenty of people besides those with four majors has complained publicly and tons more behind scenes.

It appears that BK was asked a question and from something I read it also appears he was asked the questions and answered and also didn't blame anyone for his round.

As far as sympathy for JB, reap the whirlwind.

 

What exactly is the issue again?

[buckeyefl]

> @lopey986 said:

> > @nix said:

> > Also, the fact he really annoyed Brooks makes me want to give JB a break though because Brooks is more annoying as a person than JB is annoying with his slowness.

>

> Too bad all the **** JB does bleeds over into actual rounds of golf in the real world. Nothing Brooks does has any affect on that. 5 hour rounds are dreadful.

 

This is where people who say it doesn't effect them are wrong. It most certainly does and we see it everyday on nearly every course.

[bermuda]

> @Bad9 said:

> > @new2g0lf said:

> > People should be intelligent enough to know that if they are just playing a friendly game of golf they shouldn't emulate what the pro's are doing. There's no need for 20 practice swings, multiple walks across a green, etc, take a few practice swings if you have to and hit the **** ball. I watch H.S. baseball and football games all the the time, their games don't take as long as the pro's, not sure why golfers think they need to emulate what the pro's do when it's likely they have no idea even why the pro's do half the stuff they do.

> >

> > I have golf buddies that do the whole practice swing routine, 5 practice swings or more then chunk the ball, or guys that use their rangefinder to shoot every hazard and the flag then hook or slice the ball nowhere near their intended landing spot. I tell them, if you're not a single digit handicapper, playing in a tournament or for big money your #1 priority is to finish a 4 some round in under 4 hours as the club rules dictate. Let's stop worrying about what the pro's do and focus on what golfers are doing on our courses.

>

> People should be intelligent enough but they are not. I played behind a foursome(two dads, two teenagers and an 8yr old so I guess 5). I was literally on the same tee as them 4 of 9 holes. Watched one of the teenagers take 3 practice swings before every shot and he probably shanked half of them. Real live shanks. Then he would take two or three more to figure out what he did wrong. The others weren't as bad but not good either. Not once did they offer to let me through. Even at the turn when they stopped for a hot dog and we were standing on the patio together. When I walked over to the 10th tee and they were still eating did they let me go.

 

This is really more of what goes on everyday at regular courses than trying to emulate pros, and it's not just hackers. I had a friend in high school who was pretty good and is now probably a low-single digit handicapper, and he went through this phase where he would take practice swings until he made what he thought was the exact swing he wanted to hit. Said he read it in Golf Digest. Nobody could stand playing with him, not to mention all the divots he took out of the fairway.

[bscinstnct]

 

Go JB!

 

 

[buckeyefl]

> @kizell said:

> It was a pretty dick move by BK. JB just shot an 87, he's down in the dumps, and BK didnt have a real shot at winning the open anyway. So what's the point?

>

> It's not like JB is the one who invented slow play. Since the days of Bernhard Langer, slow play has become commonplace on the PGA tour, unfortunately. It probably even goes back the the days of Nicklaus.

>

> The point I'm making is that slow play is not something JB Holmes invented. Even though I agree with the sentiment, it was a dick move by BK.

 

Not a dick move at all. He was asked a question and answered honestly.

 

"After the round, Koepka was both pointed and tempered when asked about the incident and the day overall with Holmes. “Yeah, I mean, there were some times where I thought it was slow,” Koepka said. “There’s a lot of slow guys out here.”

[buckeyefl]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @physasst said:

> > Well, then get rid of the rule. If they have a rule regarding 40 seconds or 60 seconds, then they need to enforce it.

>

> They do enforce it. The fact that there are so few violations indicates that getting put on the clock causes groups to speed up.

>

 

They selectively enforce it at times.

[buckeyefl]

> @"North Butte" said:

> The only influence that a Tour player can have on the morons who are selfishly ruining the game is to shame them, call them out, tell them to speed up or otherwise apply peer pressure. The people running professional golf are totally uninterested in any meaningful step to address the ever slower play. Someone like Koepka isn't afraid to be seen as a jerk so he just tells it like it is. A few more Koepkas on Tour might not help the slow play disease but it sure couldn't hurt.

>

> And don't give me any "brain surgery" nonsense. There are plenty of guys who are far too slow who have never undergone brain surgery. What they do have are a corps of highly paid professional "psychologists" whispering in their ear every day with suggestions for how to further procrastinate before every single shot.

 

Perfect

[BiggErn]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @physasst said:

> > > Well, then get rid of the rule. If they have a rule regarding 40 seconds or 60 seconds, then they need to enforce it.

> >

> > They do enforce it. The fact that there are so few violations indicates that getting put on the clock causes groups to speed up.

> >

>

> They selectively enforce it at times.

 

I only ever recall them taking it out on a 14 year old at the masters.

[buckeyefl]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

>

> That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

 

Wrong. It most certainly for many people is because of what they watch and hear on TV. There are plenty of examples of how people out what they see on TV into their games and slow play is one of them. It's all around you but you either don't out two and two together or are playing dumb.

[buckeyefl]

> @tiderider said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @cardoustie said:> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club.

> >

> > That doesn't happen. Slow play at the club level is unrelated to slow play on tour.

>

> correct

 

Not correct at all. You are dreaming.

[Hawkeye77]

> @bscinstnct said:

>

> Go JB!

>

>

>

 

HaHa - he agonized over which pig, how much and how feed for 30 minutes before.

 

I kid, I kid.

 

 

[Choclab]

I generally defend JB. If you're playing with him, you just have to look away when he's doing all his preshot mini-swings, etc. I'd think that mentally, just image you're playing in a threesome or something.

 

But I did think it was ridiculous yesterday when Koepka put it in the fairway bunker and had to chop out a layup, and even after two shots it still took a few minutes for Holmes to decide what to do out of the rough. He should at least assess his lie and decide what to do while his fellow competitor is playing. That part does need to be corrected.

 

I was thinking yesterday too that the All Great and Powerful Master of Mental Toughness would have this as an excuse if he played poorly. Sure enough...

[smashdn]

> @cardoustie said:

> The slow play / prep is a crutch for players to mentally prepare / get ready for the shot at hand ... and soften the nerves. And it is for EVERY shot now, even the standard ones from the centre of the fairway. It has morphed in OVER ANALYZING and DeShampoo isn't helping matters FWIW

> This has to be stopped with JB .... and all the other flagrant violators.

> It's infuriating to me because these guys are the best in the world. You should know how far your knock down 8 iron flies into a 20mph wind.

> Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club. I don't need to watch a 20 capper reading an 8 footer from four sides for a triple. Hit me in nuts with a wrench instead. You've been a member here for 15 years, you know what the putt does FFS

 

Ditch the pro caddies. Show up and draw a name from a hat. Nobody to have the 3 minute conversation with that way. Bill, who is lugging your bag today, doesn't know or care how far you hit your knock down 8.

[cardoustie]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> >

> > Go JB!

> >

> >

> >

>

> HaHa - he agonized over which pig, how much and how feed for 30 minutes before.

>

> I kid, I kid.

>

>

 

I've fed the pigs there. Good fun. Love Exuma

[lopey986]

> @smashdn said:

> > @cardoustie said:

> > The slow play / prep is a crutch for players to mentally prepare / get ready for the shot at hand ... and soften the nerves. And it is for EVERY shot now, even the standard ones from the centre of the fairway. It has morphed in OVER ANALYZING and DeShampoo isn't helping matters FWIW

> > This has to be stopped with JB .... and all the other flagrant violators.

> > It's infuriating to me because these guys are the best in the world. You should know how far your knock down 8 iron flies into a 20mph wind.

> > Trickle down effect where the pro's actions on TV wind their way down to guys at the club. I don't need to watch a 20 capper reading an 8 footer from four sides for a triple. Hit me in nuts with a wrench instead. You've been a member here for 15 years, you know what the putt does FFS

>

> Ditch the pro caddies. Show up and draw a name from a hat. Nobody to have the 3 minute conversation with that way. Bill, who is lugging your bag today, doesn't know or care how far you hit your knock down 8.

 

Give em all push carts and allow range finders/gps and let's get on with it!

[buckeyefl]

> @Choclab said:

> I generally defend JB. If you're playing with him, you just have to look away when he's doing all his preshot mini-swings, etc. I'd think that mentally, just image you're playing in a threesome or something.

>

> But I did think it was ridiculous yesterday when Koepka put it in the fairway bunker and had to chop out a layup, and even after two shots it still took a few minutes for Holmes to decide what to do out of the rough. He should at least assess his lie and decide what to do while his fellow competitor is playing. That part does need to be corrected.

>

> I was thinking yesterday too that the All Great and Powerful Master of Mental Toughness would have this as an excuse if he played poorly. Sure enough...

 

I just watched his putt on 11 a few minutes ago. Now I am sure he didnt get there in a hurry or had picked up the pace because he was shooting a million but he hit his put tp three inches. Stands there like it should have fallen in, stares off into the distance in deep thought and then finally trudges to the hole to tap it in. It is maddening to play with people like that. Its painful to watch.

[golfer07840]

> @bladehunter said:

> Bruce is dead right here. But. What does irk me is that if several other guys said the same it would be deemed “ whining because he didn’t play well today “.

 

Bruce?

[golfer07840]

> @NoTalentLefty said:

> Do you ever think his surgery on his brain may be causing some of his thinking processes? I like Koepka but he's got to get use to others pace of play. Every great golf does. Didn't hear Lowrey complaining yesterday? Wasn't he playing with JB? You're haters and Koepka is your man, he can do no wrong. You all got your heads so far up your arses you can see the back of you teeth.

 

And you hate Koepka.. it goes both ways.