Retrieve OB balls or...

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, ChipStrokes said:

he's not talking about parking on the field haha.  

 

most fields have parking along at least one of the foul lines.  if you choose to park there, and a ball goes through your windshield, yes it's your responsibility.  you parked there fully well knowing the risks involved.  

 

same as buying a house on the right side of a fairway, 200 yards from the tee box.  

 

Seems to be a huge difference in culture. Let me explain how it works here.

 

A city builds a venue for outdoor sports, such as soccer and outdoor ice hockey. The area is surrounded by a fence, high enough to block most errant balls and pucks. If a ball or a puck flies over the fence and causes damage it is either the city or the person who made the ball/puck fly over the fence (or in practice their insurance) who pays for the damage. City is responsible if it can be shown that the fence was not high enough (this happened a few years ago in a large city and that city was made to pay the damages). So, in no case the person walking outside the venue or having parked their car behind the fence would have to pay anything (unless the person having caused the damage has no insurance nor any money or income in which case it is tough luck).

 

When a house is built next to a golf course outside the land of the course the responsibility for flying errant balls lies with the course. Any damage caused by such ball will be paid by the insurance of the course. Same goes with cars parked within or outside the limits of the course (if inside on designated places, not on fairways...). If a ball hits my car it is the course who pays. If it can be shown that the course has done everything reasonable to prevent such incidents the responsibility might fall onto the person causing the damage but that would be very rare. Deliberate damages are naturally a different animal.

 

The idea of making a person pay for damage to their car being parked in a designated area on a golf course or a sports venue is so alien to me and my fellow countrymen that it is beyond describing.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[ChipStrokes]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

The idea of making a person pay for damage to their car being parked in a designated area on a golf course or a sports venue is so alien to me and my fellow countrymen that it is beyond describing.

i hear what you're saying, but it definitely just comes down to a difference of culture.  your scenario seems very utopian, and would never happen here.  

 

the idea of a course assuming the liability for any and all (reasonable) damages caused by golfers is preposterous.  that responsibility has been passed to the homeowners, and is likely baked into their HOA agreement.

 

same thing for going to a little league game.  pretty much everyone knows you park far away from the foul lines, at the back of the parking lot.  the guy who's at the park for something else and didn't know there would be a game that day...well, he's SOL.

[david.c.w]

58 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Seems to be a huge difference in culture. Let me explain how it works here.

 

A city builds a venue for outdoor sports, such as soccer and outdoor ice hockey. The area is surrounded by a fence, high enough to block most errant balls and pucks. If a ball or a puck flies over the fence and causes damage it is either the city or the person who made the ball/puck fly over the fence (or in practice their insurance) who pays for the damage. City is responsible if it can be shown that the fence was not high enough (this happened a few years ago in a large city and that city was made to pay the damages). So, in no case the person walking outside the venue or having parked their car behind the fence would have to pay anything (unless the person having caused the damage has no insurance nor any money or income in which case it is tough luck).

 

When a house is built next to a golf course outside the land of the course the responsibility for flying errant balls lies with the course. Any damage caused by such ball will be paid by the insurance of the course. Same goes with cars parked within or outside the limits of the course (if inside on designated places, not on fairways...). If a ball hits my car it is the course who pays. If it can be shown that the course has done everything reasonable to prevent such incidents the responsibility might fall onto the person causing the damage but that would be very rare. Deliberate damages are naturally a different animal.

 

The idea of making a person pay for damage to their car being parked in a designated area on a golf course or a sports venue is so alien to me and my fellow countrymen that it is beyond describing.

 

 

How does it work when it cannot be determined who deflected a puck.  I can imagine there are many players trying to stop or deflect a slapshot.  if someone fires one at the goal and there is a bunch of people and sticks, and the puck goes over the glass and net and lands on a car, how can they determine who is at fault?  The guy that took the shot?  The guy that deflected it?  What if they honestly have no idea?  Everyone just chips in and pays for the damage?  In theory it is beautiful, but seems very difficult in practice.

 

 

[Girevik]

I don't see what all the angst is about.  I completely see both sides of the argument.  In reality, both parties share some responsibility.  But at the end of the day one or the other has to assume the liability.  It's not surprising to me at all that different places would rule different ways.  To get all condescending and snarky about it seems out of line to me.

[Mr. Bean]

52 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

How does it work when it cannot be determined who deflected a puck.  I can imagine there are many players trying to stop or deflect a slapshot.  if someone fires one at the goal and there is a bunch of people and sticks, and the puck goes over the glass and net and lands on a car, how can they determine who is at fault?  The guy that took the shot?  The guy that deflected it?  What if they honestly have no idea?  Everyone just chips in and pays for the damage?  In theory it is beautiful, but seems very difficult in practice.

 

 

 

Yes, sometimes it may be difficult to find the responsible party but that does not change the principle. In fact, in criminal justice this may also occur. Let us assume it is known for a fact that one of three men committed a crime but it cannot be established which one. In such a case nobody can be punished but all three go free, two of them innocent and one of them guilty.

 

We are not living in a perfect world.

[ChipStrokes]

1 minute ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Yes, sometimes it may be difficult to find the responsible party but that does not change the principle. In fact, in criminal justice this may also occur. Let us assume it is known for a fact that one of three men committed a crime but it cannot be established which one. In such a case nobody can be punished but all three go free, two of them innocent and one of them guilty.

 

We are not living in a perfect world.

it's a gigantic leap from an accidental foul ball through someone's windshield and an actual crime.  

[brew4eagle]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Yes, sometimes it may be difficult to find the responsible party but that does not change the principle. In fact, in criminal justice this may also occur. Let us assume it is known for a fact that one of three men committed a crime but it cannot be established which one. In such a case nobody can be punished but all three go free, two of them innocent and one of them guilty.

 

We are not living in a perfect world.

In the criminal justice example, 2 of the subjects will take deals and 1 will be indicted

[bcjim]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:52 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

This is just beyond my imagination. In my country the person who damages something is always responsible. Then it is up to the circumstances whose insurance pays but in NO WAY the house owner would pay in such a case as described.

 

Wow....

If the grounds crew left a maintenance vehicle far off to the side of some par 3 green and you hooked a ball badly and smashed a window, would you offer to pay? 

 

Again, its implied to (and understood by) the paying golf customer at the licensed golf business that the environment is suitable for the activity being paid for.  If not, its basically some kind of fraud on the part of the business.

 

 

[bcjim]

On 5/17/2022 at 1:52 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

This is just beyond my imagination. In my country the person who damages something is always responsible. Then it is up to the circumstances whose insurance pays but in NO WAY the house owner would pay in such a case as described.

 

Wow....

If the grounds crew left a maintenance vehicle far off to the side of some par 3 green and you hooked a ball badly and smashed a window, would you offer to pay? 

 

Again, its implied to (and understood by) the paying golf customer at the licensed golf business that the environment is suitable for the activity being paid for.  If not, its basically some kind of fraud on the part of the business.

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

3 minutes ago, bcjim said:

If the grounds crew left a maintenance vehicle far off to the side of some par 3 green and you hooked a ball badly and smashed a window, would you offer to pay? 

 

Again, its implied to (and understood by) the paying golf customer at the licensed golf business that the environment is suitable for the activity being paid for.  If not, its basically some kind of fraud on the part of the business.

 

 

 

This is exactly how it's done here. The course is responsible for providing a suitable surroundings to play and errant strokes are included. Thus player does not pay but the course.

[bcjim]

Yes, that seems reasonable. But here, and others have noted, agreements exist in many cases between courses and homeowners, that cover who is or is not responsible.

 

For the case of cars hit by balls or whatever, most people have comprehensive insurance (beyond liability and collision) that would pay for that kind of thing. In fact, that's basically what its for, weird things like a tree falling on your car, theft of your car, vandalism, etc. You would have that to cover many far more likely and costly scenarios than a golf ball impact. But it would cover that too.  Now if its a old clunker with only liability coverage, that's on you or you  could chase after the facility owner but the juice would not be worth the squeeze probably.

[Mr. Bean]

41 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Yes, that seems reasonable. But here, and others have noted, agreements exist in many cases between courses and homeowners, that cover who is or is not responsible.

 

 

Perfectly understandable but very far from some of the views presented here.

  

41 minutes ago, bcjim said:

For the case of cars hit by balls or whatever, most people have comprehensive insurance (beyond liability and collision) that would pay for that kind of thing. In fact, that's basically what its for, weird things like a tree falling on your car, theft of your car, vandalism, etc. You would have that to cover many far more likely and costly scenarios than a golf ball impact. But it would cover that too. 

 

Sure, people have individual insurances but most insurances have a deductible and that can be a substantial amount of money, so it is not unimportant whose insurance is to be used.

 

Btw, here in Finland all members of a golf club (i.e. 99,9% of all golf players) have a personal liability insurance also included in the annual membership fee. So if the course for some bizarre reason will not pay the insurance of the player will. We are fully covered, I would say.

[MJW1]

I live on a golf course and the rules that I  would like golfers to abide by is: 1) If the ball is too close to the house let it go, 2) Do not drive your cart onto my grass, 3) Do not walk aimlessly through the yard looking for your ball (or collecting balls that aren’t yours).

[The fourth hole]

I live on a private golf course and have for about 25 years.  Players have changed.  They were previously respectful of others property.  If they saw their ball, they would walk in a direct line to it, pick it up and leave.  I am fine with this.  Now we have the entitled few that make it unpleasant.  Driving carts in the yard, walking through gardens, using their golf clubs to push plants apart.  If I complain, I’m told I shouldn’t live on a golf course.  What happened to manners? Courtesy?  Makes me wish I knew where they lived so I could trample things in their yards, too.  And it isn’t the players from Monday outings, it’s the members who behave this way.  I keep meaning to have a chat with the pro to find out if I am behind the times.  Meanwhile, a big thank you to those individuals who do respect that it is my yard which backs up to the golf course, land they have paid to use for their game.  If you want to help pay my exorbitant taxes, which I pay for the privilege of living on the course, you can come in to look for your ball.  But no carts, no trampling flowers and no playing from my yard.  

[Colin L]

What I find difficult to understand in the American way is how a householder can be seen to be  liable for the cost of damage done by the wayward shot of a golfer,  an action over which he/she has no control.   Is that how it works if I shunt the car in front?  The owner of that car has to accept liability for my carelessness?

[brew4eagle]

4 hours ago, Colin L said:

What I find difficult to understand in the American way is how a householder can be seen to be  liable for the cost of damage done by the wayward shot of a golfer,  an action over which he/she has no control.   Is that how it works if I shunt the car in front?  The owner of that car has to accept liability for my carelessness?

Is the water source liable for flooding my home, or do I accept the risk when I purchase waterfront property and realize any future flood repairs will be on me/my insurance?

[Newby]

3 hours ago, brew4eagle said:

Is the water source liable for flooding my home, or do I accept the risk when I purchase waterfront property and realize any future flood repairs will be on me/my insurance?

If a neighbour's hot tub bursts into your living room they would be liable but if a superior being caused a tidal wave then no.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Newby

[brew4eagle]

38 minutes ago, Newby said:

If a neighbour's hot tub bursts into your living room they would be liable but if a superior being caused a tidal wave then no.

So a golfer isn't a superior being?  I'd beg to differ.

[Warrior42111]

15 hours ago, The fourth hole said:

I live on a private golf course and have for about 25 years.  Players have changed.  They were previously respectful of others property.  If they saw their ball, they would walk in a direct line to it, pick it up and leave.  I am fine with this.  Now we have the entitled few that make it unpleasant.  Driving carts in the yard, walking through gardens, using their golf clubs to push plants apart.  If I complain, I’m told I shouldn’t live on a golf course.  What happened to manners? Courtesy?  Makes me wish I knew where they lived so I could trample things in their yards, too.  And it isn’t the players from Monday outings, it’s the members who behave this way.  I keep meaning to have a chat with the pro to find out if I am behind the times.  Meanwhile, a big thank you to those individuals who do respect that it is my yard which backs up to the golf course, land they have paid to use for their game.  If you want to help pay my exorbitant taxes, which I pay for the privilege of living on the course, you can come in to look for your ball.  But no carts, no trampling flowers and no playing from my yard.  

You sir or ma'am are making too much common sense for an internet forum.

 

Please include some dicey opinion in which you are right and anyone who differs in 100% wrong and a problem in the world and we'll get back to you.

[bekgolf]

On 8/10/2022 at 5:29 PM, The fourth hole said:

I live on a private golf course and have for about 25 years.  Players have changed.  They were previously respectful of others property.  If they saw their ball, they would walk in a direct line to it, pick it up and leave.  I am fine with this.  Now we have the entitled few that make it unpleasant.  Driving carts in the yard, walking through gardens, using their golf clubs to push plants apart.  If I complain, I’m told I shouldn’t live on a golf course.  What happened to manners? Courtesy?  Makes me wish I knew where they lived so I could trample things in their yards, too.  And it isn’t the players from Monday outings, it’s the members who behave this way.  I keep meaning to have a chat with the pro to find out if I am behind the times.  Meanwhile, a big thank you to those individuals who do respect that it is my yard which backs up to the golf course, land they have paid to use for their game.  If you want to help pay my exorbitant taxes, which I pay for the privilege of living on the course, you can come in to look for your ball.  But no carts, no trampling flowers and no playing from my yard.  

 

You nailed it but I think of it as "People have changed" vs "Players have changed".

 

In my opinion the world we live in becomes progressively more entitled and selfish as time goes on.  That includes those who are taking up golf.

 

My sympathies that there are those who don't respect your property. 

 

FWIW to others in this thread the state I live in requires golfers to pay for damages they cause so it's not a US thing but rather a state law thing when it comes to paying for damages.  I can't imagine someone not owning up to something they did. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by bekgolf
syntax

[Warrior42111]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:12 PM, bekgolf said:

 

You nailed it but I think of it as "People have changed" vs "Players have changed".

 

In my opinion the world we live in becomes progressively more entitled and selfish as time goes on.  That includes those who are taking up golf.

 

My sympathies that there are those who don't respect your property. 

 

FWIW to others in this thread the state I live in requires golfers to pay for damages they cause so it's not a US thing but rather a state law thing when it comes to paying for damages.  I can't imagine someone not owning up to something they did. 

What state is that? I want to buy a house 220 to the right of a FW and never have to pay for exterior renovations and repairs 😄

[Roejye]

I wouldn't go into somebody's yard to grab a ball, only way I would encroach on someone's property would be if it was within a couple feet of the property line. My home course has homes going up the right side of hole 2 and I have given many a ball to various homeowners. I think if you buy a house on a golf course you're going to assume the risk of damage from errant shots. That being said, the golfer should take into account the houses and pick a club/line that takes the houses out of play.

[Colin L]

8 hours ago, Roejye said:

I wouldn't go into somebody's yard to grab a ball, only way I would encroach on someone's property would be if it was within a couple feet of the property line. 

So it's not a matter of principle but of degree? 😉

[Roejye]

6 hours ago, Colin L said:

So it's not a matter of principle but of degree? 😉

Pretty much, yeah, lol. 

[taporsnap17]

If you're not breaking the law and it's not going to adversely affect pace of play, go for gold

[kew]

I bought a house that backs up to a golf course in 2020. We anticipated golfers coming and grabbing an errant ball. I did not anticipate golfers mowing down my plants, trees and yard with golf carts or coming 20 plus feet into my property to get a ball. We also have some guys come and dig through our property and walk out with handfuls of balls. I dont see too many people talking about liability here though, what if one of these guys come on my property and get hurt and proceed to sue me? And let's not even talk about the guys who come right up to my property line and pee on a tree. I have kids - you wanna grab your ball, go ahead but please find somewhere else to relieve yourself. 

[golf2]

On 6/30/2020 at 10:44 AM, Showtime9 said:

Unless people are trampling over flowers and garden beds, I don't think it would be a big deal. Doesn't happen often and as long as they are not hitting off a person's back deck, I don't think owners would mind. If you live on the Golf Course, you understand that is going to occur from time to time.

 

[Missileer]

I live on a private course and people are allowed to come 10 feet onto the property to get the ball. I’ve had people come almost to the patio to get the ball. I just ordered some no trespassing signs to put at the 10 foot mark. Another fun thing, my wife told me yesterday that somebody was urinating on the cart path, and turned around, zipping up his pants. Golf is supposed to be a Gentlemans game. And gentlemen’s game. Back on the trespassing, it’s just rude.

[MountainKing]

I guess there's two sides to think about it from.  I personally wouldn't, I don't want any golf ball that don't want to stay on the course, but also with the amount of guns out there and stories you hear, I have no interest in being the guy that sends a gun owner over the edge on that particular day.

 

Flip side - getting the ball off their property might be doing them a favor.  Balls can tough to see and getting that ball out might prevent them from hitting it with a mower or stepping on it causing an injury.  With that said, I would guess most golf course home owners regularly check the yard.

 

At the end of the day it's somebody's property, they work hard for what they bought so we should respect that.

[bcjim]

On 8/11/2022 at 8:12 PM, bekgolf said:

 

You nailed it but I think of it as "People have changed" vs "Players have changed".

 

In my opinion the world we live in becomes progressively more entitled and selfish as time goes on.  That includes those who are taking up golf.

 

My sympathies that there are those who don't respect your property. 

 

FWIW to others in this thread the state I live in requires golfers to pay for damages they cause so it's not a US thing but rather a state law thing when it comes to paying for damages.  I can't imagine someone not owning up to something they did. 

Yes,  what state is this and can you cite the relevant statute?