The Grip - Revisited

[enders.seb]

Just found this thread and it's speaking to my soul. 5 handicap, had a recent online lesson with Monte and he basically told me I have no idea how to hold a golf club. I have large-ish hands and always thought my midsize grips were fine. However in the lesson Monte identified that the club was way too much in the palm of my right hand and that grip size was very possibly an issue. I wear a large glove, not an XL, so I never considered a larger size but time to experiment! Anyone else have any experience with larger grips?

[mgoblue83]

3 minutes ago, enders.seb said:

Just found this thread and it's speaking to my soul. 5 handicap, had a recent online lesson with Monte and he basically told me I have no idea how to hold a golf club. I have large-ish hands and always thought my midsize grips were fine. However in the lesson Monte identified that the club was way too much in the palm of my right hand and that grip size was very possibly an issue. I wear a large glove, not an XL, so I never considered a larger size but time to experiment! Anyone else have any experience with larger grips?

 

I wear a Medium-Large Cadet and currently use mid-size grips. I too grip the club more in my palms but it's always felt more comfortable and powerful that way. I recently tried a mid-size +4 with 3 wraps of tape underneath (significantly larger than midsize with 1 wrap) and while it feels comfortable it doesn't really change anything. I'm hesitant to go to oversize or jumbo grips as I feel like I'd still grip it in my palms like a baseball bat or hockey stick.

[enders.seb]

1 minute ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I wear a Medium-Large Cadet and currently use mid-size grips. I too grip the club more in my palms but it's always felt more comfortable and powerful that way. I recently tried a mid-size +4 with 3 wraps of tape underneath (significantly larger than midsize with 1 wrap) and while it feels comfortable it doesn't really change anything. I'm hesitant to go to oversize or jumbo grips as I feel like I'd still grip it in my palms like a baseball bat or hockey stick.

 

Gotcha. I think I have to try something similar, only to be able to eliminate that variable if nothing else

[mgoblue83]

2 minutes ago, enders.seb said:

 

Gotcha. I think I have to try something similar, only to be able to eliminate that variable if nothing else

 

I'd like to blame equipment (grip size) on this one but it's clear that I just don't know how to grip the club with my left hand. I wear holes in the heel of my glove after just a couple range sessions and the club is not secure (moves during the swing).

[Simpsonia]

10 minutes ago, enders.seb said:

Just found this thread and it's speaking to my soul. 5 handicap, had a recent online lesson with Monte and he basically told me I have no idea how to hold a golf club. I have large-ish hands and always thought my midsize grips were fine. However in the lesson Monte identified that the club was way too much in the palm of my right hand and that grip size was very possibly an issue. I wear a large glove, not an XL, so I never considered a larger size but time to experiment! Anyone else have any experience with larger grips?

 

I wear large gloves and recently switched from midsize to jumbo Tour Velvets. The jumbo just instantly felt right in my hands. No longer felt like I had to death grip the club to prevent it from slipping out. Have also noticed that it has helped ease my golfer's elbow tendonitis, which my PT thinks was from my death gripping my clubs when I had standard grips. 

[enders.seb]

8 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I'd like to blame equipment (grip size) on this one but it's clear that I just don't know how to grip the club with my left hand. I wear holes in the heel of my glove after just a couple range sessions and the club is not secure (moves during the swing).

 

That's interesting. I've never felt an issue with the club twisting and I don't have any weird wear patterns in my gloves. It just looks hideous haha. And Monte's theory is it likely contributes to my inability to close the club face early in transition. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by enders.seb
Spelling

[nitram]

Just food for thought:

 

When wanting to figure out how to best grip the club, Harvey Penick suggested we grip a ruler, or a yardstick, as though we were going to use it to strike a ball. Most of us would naturally grip the yardstick with our palms flat against the flat surface of the ruler. If we then were to prepare to hit a ball, our right palm would face the target line, and the knuckles of our left hand would as well.

 

FWIW I use Cadet XL gloves and No.1 50 Pro Grips with 2 wraps. 

[bladehunter]

41 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

I wear large gloves and recently switched from midsize to jumbo Tour Velvets. The jumbo just instantly felt right in my hands. No longer felt like I had to death grip the club to prevent it from slipping out. Have also noticed that it has helped ease my golfer's elbow tendonitis, which my PT thinks was from my death gripping my clubs when I had standard grips. 

This ^ is what I wonder about.  
 

 

I just worked out a bit and checked on some advice I got via PM.  When I grip with my right hand And apply pressure t my two middle fingers , I just noticed they won’t wrap right on the club.  The club is too small for them to wrap on. My fingers are all the way around and touching fingers to palm pad while club is loose inside.  This must me why I pinch to much with my pointer and thumb.  It’s all that’s actually holding on my right hand.  Same for left.  If I my left pinky and ring finger dig into my palm.  Maybe by and inch.   Club can’t be held tight.   And I grip all the way out to the butt of the club.  

[nsxguy]

13 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Another one that’s informative.  
 

but here’s a funny thing.  I don’t think my hands hang at a 45 as this video shows. They hang palms facing each other , lol.  
 

 

 

 

Mine hang naturally at that 45* angle.

 

IIRC you do a fair amount of heavy lifting, no ? If so, possibly your physique is a bit different than most ?

[MaineMariner]

I get dizzy reading or watching anything on the golf grip. Everybody's hands and forearms and general body geometry is slightly different and trying to come up with uniform grip system seems a bit impossible. I wear a size medium glove and I know that watching a grip tutorial for someone with massive bear paws is simply pointless.

 

HAVING SAID ALL THAT... I feel that I have to add in my most recent favorite grip explanation from Padraig Harrington. This is the one that has made more sense to me than anything else I watched.

 

 

[bladehunter]

6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Mine hang naturally at that 45* angle.

 

IIRC you do a fair amount of heavy lifting, no ? If so, possibly your physique is a bit different than most ?

No. That’s not me.  Lol.  Just working on the farm and in the shop.  Probably been 20 years since I saw weight room.  But yes. I’m certain I’m not average build.  Plus. Alien blood and all.  Loll.  

[nsxguy]

4 hours ago, iceman1118 said:

I will chime in with my 2 cents... I played a “neutral” grip when I first started not knowing what that meant. Played fine, but things clicked when I went to a bit of a stronger grip. Roughly 3 knuckles on my left hand and what FEELS like my right hand is under the shaft, but if you look in a mirror and take your address position, it really is not under the shaft at all. My trick is when I put my “strong” left hand on the club, I make sure my palms match up on the grip and that puts my right hand in a good spot.  I also firmly believe in the “trigger finger”. Just extend your right pointer down the shaft a tiny bit in a type of hook position. Almost like you are going to fire a gun.  I used to wear out gloves like crazy (especially in the palm like you blade hunter) but not anymore. 
 

I can absolutely echo what was said above about swing speed. With a neutral grip, or even a strong left and neutral right, I swing driver 105-108 mph. With my now “strong”grip, I am 113-116 mph no question. I test this on the trackman at my club all the time and it really is a no brained for me to be strong. 
 

One thing that I personally think is super important is grip pressure. I am sure we have all read or heard grip it light, grip it firm, etc etc. I have played with all types of pressure and have found that just holding normally without adding or subtracting anything in my fingers is the perfect amount of pressure. Could also potentially help with the wear spots in gloves as well. 

 

I read something like this earlier in the thread but decided to let it lie. Since you've repeated it now perhaps I'll comment.

 

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that such a SS difference can occur from a neutral to a strong gip. Did you note a similar difference in BALL speed ?

 

From a grip where the hands are oriented "differently", such as neutral left and strong right, given that the hands do not appear to be working quite the same, I can understand a loss of SS.

 

But weak to neutral ? Neutral to strong ? Hard to imagine the SS could be that different.

 

Now you mentioned Trackman and I'm inclined to believe Trackman but in other discussions of launch monitors it's been said that the camera measures SS via the rotation of the TOE of the club.

 

If that is indeed the case isn't it possible that the closing of the toe is quicker with a stronger grip - which has to rotate the club head quicker to square it up ?

 

 

[mgoblue83]

26 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I read something like this earlier in the thread but decided to let it lie. Since you've repeated it now perhaps I'll comment.

 

I find it incredibly difficult to believe that such a SS difference can occur from a neutral to a strong gip. Did you note a similar difference in BALL speed ?

 

From a grip where the hands are oriented "differently", such as neutral left and strong right, given that the hands do not appear to be working quite the same, I can understand a loss of SS.

 

But weak to neutral ? Neutral to strong ? Hard to imagine the SS could be that different.

 

Now you mentioned Trackman and I'm inclined to believe Trackman but in other discussions of launch monitors it's been said that the camera measures SS via the rotation of the TOE of the club.

 

If that is indeed the case isn't it possible that the closing of the toe is quicker with a stronger grip - which has to rotate the club head quicker to square it up ?

 

 

 

Confirmed loss of ball speed 10-15 mph along with the corresponding loss in distance. This is because something about my swing/body/action doesn't work with a weak grip. Applying force with my hands in that position is awkward, painful on my wrists, and brings fear of injury which automatically applies the breaks subconsciously. To me it feels like trying to swing a hammer back handed. In addition to loss of speed I also lose the feel of the club head and have significantly more mishits than with a stronger grip. My grip isn't even THAT strong.

 

The problem is how my hands actually hold onto the club NOT whether they are weak, neutral, or strong. I know a strong grip is best for my swing but I don't know the best way to hold the club (fingers, palm, interlock, etc) and the club is not secure in my hands as it will move and rotate during the swing leading to excessive glove wear and difficulty controlling the club face. I hit on Trackman all the time and my path, AoA, and center face contact are very consistent (2 handicap) but the club rotates in my hands frequently and I know it's a grip issue.

Edited December 8, 2020 by mgoblue83

[mgoblue83]

35 minutes ago, MaineMariner said:

I get dizzy reading or watching anything on the golf grip. Everybody's hands and forearms and general body geometry is slightly different and trying to come up with uniform grip system seems a bit impossible. I wear a size medium glove and I know that watching a grip tutorial for someone with massive bear paws is simply pointless.

 

HAVING SAID ALL THAT... I feel that I have to add in my most recent favorite grip explanation from Padraig Harrington. This is the one that has made more sense to me than anything else I watched.

 

 

 

Incredible video, by far the most detailed grip video I've ever seen and many of the concepts he talked about hit home. I haven't had time to practice this yet but wow, thank you!

[nsxguy]

55 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

This ^ is what I wonder about.  
 

 

I just worked out a bit and checked on some advice I got via PM.  When I grip with my right hand And apply pressure t my two middle fingers , I just noticed they won’t wrap right on the club.  The club is too small for them to wrap on. My fingers are all the way around and touching fingers to palm pad while club is loose inside.  This must me why I pinch to much with my pointer and thumb.  It’s all that’s actually holding on my right hand.  Same for left.  If I my left pinky and ring finger dig into my palm.  Maybe by and inch.   Club can’t be held tight.   And I grip all the way out to the butt of the club.  

 

As you know I'm no expert but you seem to be describing a situation where the grip is way too small for what sounds like very large hands.

 

I always thought my hands were a bit smaller than average but lately I've noted that the left hand fingers, while not "digging" into the pad of my left hand were touching a bit more than they should(?).

 

I have a set of irons with midsize grips and the fingers don't quite touch the pad of the left hand and they feel "better". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[nsxguy]

18 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Confirmed loss of ball speed 10-15 mph along with the corresponding loss in distance. This is because something about my swing/body/action doesn't work with a weak grip. Applying force with my hands in that position is awkward, painful on my wrists, and brings fear of injury which automatically applies the breaks subconsciously. To me it feels like trying to swing a hammer back handed. In addition to loss of speed I also lose the feel of the club head and have significantly more mishits than with a stronger grip. My grip isn't even THAT strong.

 

The problem is how my hands actually hold onto the club NOT whether they are weak, neutral, or strong. I know a strong grip is best for my swing but I don't know the best way to hold the club (fingers, palm, interlock, etc) and the club is not secure in my hands as it will move and rotate during the swing leading to excessive glove wear and difficulty controlling the club face. I hit on Trackman all the time and my path, AoA, and center face contact are very consistent (2 handicap) but the club rotates in my hands frequently and I know it's a grip issue.

 

Understood. Thanks. 👍

[Ri_Redneck]

16 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Another one that’s informative.  
 

but here’s a funny thing.  I don’t think my hands hang at a 45 as this video shows. They hang palms facing each other , lol.  
 

 

 

This is where people are different. When my hands hang at my side, my palms face back more than 45*. In the vid further up by Eric Cogorno (never heard of him before this thread), he mentions letting your hands hang at your side and letting that determine how you place your hands on the club. I struggled with inconsistency until I came across that same information and since have quite good control over shot direction. Making that big of a change in the grip took considerable time though. Enter with caution!!

 

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

4 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Thank you for joining the thread!

 

My biggest question to everyone is HOW you actually hold the club and I don't mean strong, weak, neutral. I completely agree with you about a strong grip and "normal" grip pressure but how do you hold the club in your left hand? Perpendicular with the fingers? In your fingers? Base of your fingers? In your palm? Diagonal across your palm? Holding on with Pinky finger or just ring/middle? Etc. etc. etc.

 

I know all of these questions sound crazy but even after all of these videos and playing golf for 25 years to a 2 handicap I don't know the answer to how you hold the club with your left hand. The right hand is much easier because it goes on after the left...

My left hand placement using old shaft in my office. As you can see it angles across my hand and my fingers form foughly a 45* angle across the grip. Pressure is applied mostly by the pinky and ring finger with some applied by the middle finger. Index finger is more or less limp and covered by my right hand pinky when taking my full grip. I also us a short thumb grip which means the thumb is somewhat in line with my index finger.

 

BT

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ri_Redneck

[mgoblue83]

5 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

My left hand placement using old shaft in my office.

 

BT

 

It's so hard to tell but it looks like the club is diagonal and more in your palm? Instead of perpendicular and in your fingers like a lot of people recommend.

 

[Arn]

This one is pretty neat, for grip strength it should match how your arm hangs. For me it explains why I easily play well with a weaker grip.

 

 

[Ri_Redneck]

30 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

It's so hard to tell but it looks like the club is diagonal and more in your palm? Instead of perpendicular and in your fingers like a lot of people recommend.

 

It is. My left hand grip is not in the fingers, my fingers hold the grip against the base knuckles of my fingers (if that makes sense). If I open my hand, the grip goes straight from the base joint of my index finger to the heel of the palm (where you wear out the glove). When I develop a hole in my glove, it's either on my thumb (more often) or the heel of my palm (less often).

 

BTW, I wear an XL Titleist glove and play midsize grips. I feel like I grip the club tighter than most recommend, but I'm not squeezing it. I have worked for years building my hand and forearm strength because I believe it is vital to control the club on finesse shots. Remember, I use leather grips which are sticky (lots of folks don't like that about them). They WILL NOT turn in your hand.

 

EDIT: After watching the Malaska vid above, I remember why I am more in my palm than my fingers. See how his left wrist makes an angle at address? I have arthritis in my hands and wrists and if I setup that way, I develop a lot of pain in the metatarsals of my left pinky. Holding the club like in the earlier pic lets me swing with very little pain. Yes, I could swing faster with the other grip, but it's not worth the pain and I'm not suffering for distance. I also went through the neutral grip thing like he did and couldn't square the club consistently for years. I would have streaks where I would play lights out (when I had my timing down), but would lose it in a flash sometimes and not get it back for months. With my current grip, I just aim and go. I don't think about what my hands, or arms are doing. I just swing.

 

BT

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ri_Redneck

[KMeloney]

Anyone else out there in a ML glove with THIN fingers/palms? I've got relatively large hands/long fingers, but I just don't have much meat on my hands at all. My left hand is pretty strong, and I tend to hook the ball as my miss -- but I feel like by the time I get the club "properly" in my left hand (in the fingers with my heel pad on top), my hand gets too strong trying to get consistent contact on the grip. If I try to go weaker in my left, the grip wants to get way too into my palm and what feels like too between my thumb pad and heel pad. I feel like if I had meatier hands (which I never will), I'd be able to find a happier medium.

 

...All of this is with Plus4 grips with an extra wrap. 

 

Geez... Maybe I need midsize (+?) grips. Thoughts?

[mgoblue83]

2 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Anyone else out there in a ML glove with THIN fingers/palms? I've got relatively large hands/long fingers, but I just don't have much meat on my hands at all. My left hand is pretty strong, and I tend to hook the ball as my miss -- but I feel like by the time I get the club "properly" in my left hand (in the fingers with my heel pad on top), my hand gets too strong trying to get consistent contact on the grip. If I try to go weaker in my left, the grip wants to get way too into my palm and what feels like too between my thumb pad and heel pad. I feel like if I had meatier hands (which I never will), I'd be able to find a happier medium.

 

...All of this is with Plus4 grips with an extra wrap. 

 

Geez... Maybe I need midsize (+?) grips. Thoughts?

 

I'm similar and I already have midsize grips. Putting the heel pad on top is a very strong grip when the club is in my fingers.

[Ri_Redneck]

4 hours ago, MaineMariner said:

I get dizzy reading or watching anything on the golf grip. Everybody's hands and forearms and general body geometry is slightly different and trying to come up with uniform grip system seems a bit impossible. I wear a size medium glove and I know that watching a grip tutorial for someone with massive bear paws is simply pointless.

 

HAVING SAID ALL THAT... I feel that I have to add in my most recent favorite grip explanation from Padraig Harrington. This is the one that has made more sense to me than anything else I watched.

 

 

See! We all should have a back yard like THAT!!!

 

BT

[mgoblue83]

More experimenting:

 

Following the Harrington video I've taken to gripping my club and waggling it around like a swordsman trying to get used the feel. I haven't hit balls yet but it feels okay. He says "club should not move in your hands at all with this grip" BUT even gripping the club exactly like him I notice the butt of the club moving in my left hand while doing simple club waggles. It's moving enough to cause friction and is visible even on little waggles. What am I doing wrong?

 

Unless I clamp down my left hand with ALL of my strength the club is moving in my hand. This can't be right... (I deadlift 315 for reps without straps so grip strength is not a problem).

 

Thanks all for the continued conversation!

 

[Ri_Redneck]

6 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

More experimenting:

 

Following the Harrington video I've taken to gripping my club and waggling it around like a swordsman trying to get used the feel. I haven't hit balls yet but it feels okay. He says "club should not move in your hands at all with this grip" BUT even gripping the club exactly like him I notice the butt of the club moving in my left hand while doing simple club waggles. It's moving enough to cause friction and is visible even on little waggles. What am I doing wrong?

 

Unless I clamp down my left hand with ALL of my strength the club is moving in my hand. This can't be right... (I deadlift 315 for reps without straps so grip strength is not a problem).

 

Thanks all for the continued conversation!

 

Just finished the Harrington vid myself and actually, his left hand grip is really close to mine. I'm just a bit more across my hand when set. Right hand is spot on. Did you notice his grips? He uses Grip Master leather grips with the ugly white underlisting. Back to the left hand though. How many full swings can you make using only your left hand before your arm starts to ache bad? I can make about 30 before it starts to hurt. It could be your pinky and ring finger felxor muscles need some work? If they are weak, then the tendency is to hold more with the other fingers. If you do that, the butt of the club WILL move around when you swing.

 

BT

[mgoblue83]

1 minute ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Just finished the Harrington vid myself and actually, his left hand grip is really close to mine. I'm just a bit more across my hand when set. Right hand is spot on. Did you notice his grips? He uses Grip Master leather grips with the ugly white underlisting. Back to the left hand though. How many full swings can you make using only your left hand before your arm starts to ache bad? I can make about 30 before it starts to hurt. It could be your pinky and ring finger felxor muscles need some work? If they are weak, then the tendency is to hold more with the other fingers. If you do that, the butt of the club WILL move around when you swing.

 

BT

 

I can make many swings with my left arm before it gets tired and aches (at least 30 but don't know for sure) but only if I relax my grip and let the club move in my hand. If i clench down tight with the left hand I wouldn't be able to make many swings because it's hard to even let my wrist relax holding on that tight.

 

I'm sure my ring and middle finger are stronger than my pinky finger but that can't be the issue here or tons of people would be having this same issue. How do you lock the butt of the club into your left hand without squeezing super hard?

[mark m]

Random thoughts:

 

• I like the video by Paddy as well. Really excellent. 
• His grip is more of Hogan variation of the Vardon grip - which I use myself - with a high riding right hand. And 2 knuckles showing on the left. This grip helps to eliminate big hooks. It may feel weaker initially, but I don't believe it is. (I am one those long hitting wrxers.)
• You could put "Hogan Grip Images" into your search engine to see many good photos. 
• Your top thumb should fit into the fold of your bottom hand and you should be able to push down on your top thumb to secure it. Your thumb on the right hand should be tight to meat of the hand. The thumb and forefinger shouldn't be active pressure, but just riding along. The grip pressure is in the last three fingers of the left hand and the middle two fingers of the right/bottom hand.
• Another personal preference is your top thumb - do you prefer a long thumb or short thumb? They say long thumb means long swing(?) not sure if true.
• I have thought Jordan Spieth's grip looks different (unconventional?) than the most of the other top players.
• Grip size - look at the Lamkin website here:

How to Choose a Golf Grip | Golf Club Grip | Lamkin Golf (lamkingrips.com)

 

Personal preferences:

• I am 6'6" and been plus/scratch for 25 years. My hands are large but I use Golf Pride CP2 Midsize grips. I like the reduced taper on my right hand and the overall feel - and they are durable as well. They are much easier on my hands then previous grips used. Previously I had pretty nasty calluses - no longer. And my hand measures 8 3/4"  - which is midsize according to their chart. (You would think I would be jumbo - but no.) But use whatever size works best for you.
• I use XXL glove and do not wear holes in them even though I have a firm grip. Like Paddy mentions - pressure is like gripping a hammer. If you are wearing a hole, it's not a good sign IMO. It's being caused by movement/friction. My gloves wear out due to sweat and becoming stretched out by constant removal for putting. 
•  

EDIT: I found this golfwrx article from a few ago as well. It has good drawings and photos. Hope this helps.

 

The Evolution of the Hogan Grip – GolfWRX

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by mark m

[Ri_Redneck]

25 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

I can make many swings with my left arm before it gets tired and aches (at least 30 but don't know for sure) but only if I relax my grip and let the club move in my hand. If i clench down tight with the left hand I wouldn't be able to make many swings because it's hard to even let my wrist relax holding on that tight.

 

I'm sure my ring and middle finger are stronger than my pinky finger but that can't be the issue here or tons of people would be having this same issue. How do you lock the butt of the club into your left hand without squeezing super hard?

I just hold it. When swinging one handed, my pinky and ring fingers are tight (MUCH tighter than at address), middle finger is maybe 80% and index is just riding along. Thumb is applying pressure where it is. It's hard to explain. I don't use as much pressure in my left hand when swinging with a full grip (both hands). However, I've always tightened my grip as the swing progresses. it's just what my hands do naturally. I figured everyone did it?

 

BT

[iceman1118]

6 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Thank you for joining the thread!

 

My biggest question to everyone is HOW you actually hold the club and I don't mean strong, weak, neutral. I completely agree with you about a strong grip and "normal" grip pressure but how do you hold the club in your left hand? Perpendicular with the fingers? In your fingers? Base of your fingers? In your palm? Diagonal across your palm? Holding on with Pinky finger or just ring/middle? Etc. etc. etc.

 

I know all of these questions sound crazy but even after all of these videos and playing golf for 25 years to a 2 handicap I don't know the answer to how you hold the club with your left hand. The right hand is much easier because it goes on after the left...

Sorry for the delay, but for me I feel like the grip is in my fingers. It runs from the tip of my right pointer finger down to the base of my pinky finger. From there I wrap my hand over the grip. It feels super secure when I do this. In my mind it is a combo of a finger and palm grip. I think an all finger grip would be the club directly across the base of the fingers with a longer thumb, and a pure palm grip would be across the life line of your hand. It is pretty darn close to the video of Padraig Harrington if I were to compare.