Two golfers, two swings, which is better (just a bit of fun..)

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, b_f_c_99 said:

I thought that A was you but I let Wesquire talk me out of it!   Couple ways of looking at the golf swing.

 

1.  Do you try and fix everything that is considered a 'fault' even if it's something that your athletic instinct tells you to do and you can repeat it?

 

or

 

2.  Take that 'fault'  and find the matching parts that work around it.  For most people I would say this will be more effective.  How many people really have the hours to unlearn something they do naturally?

 

Cheers lol

 

im in a position now where I can play consistently if not spectacularly. I’ll have a proper look later as I’m on mobile, but my instinct is that my belt buckle needs to be several inches to the left as we’re looking at it face on, at impact?

 

so yes, I can work around it(as I do) or fiddle with it with the cast drill etc..

 

tbh, I’m bound to fiddle because that’s golf.. I don’t like the idea of hitting bad shots because of ‘fixable’ bad technique.. 

[glk]

3 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Maybe OTT is the wrong term, you're steep early and shallow late, when most pros advocate the other way around, shallow early and steep late. Other experts like @glk can probably explain it better than I can. But as I see it, you're steep early in the downswing at P5, drop your trail shoulder in an attempt to shallow out late and get the club very under plane by P6, which requires you to stall and flip to square the club face. 

 

Don't get me wrong, your handicap shows that you've grooved this move extremely well and can play good golf with it. But that doesn't mean it's not a swing flaw. 

Way not an expert, just someone trying to understand the swing better for my own game.  

 

I don't see the OP being steep or OTT.    He does flip/roll as a release and to me it is due to him dropping his right shoulder early in transition - this shallows the club but the body typically reacts by moving toward the ball causing the pivot to stall - his arms then are left to fling, if you will, past his stalled body (the face is a bit open too which adds into this).     As noted this isn't a death move in golf in and of itself - heck good pros do a version of this for different reasons than the OP so you can take this kind of release to the tour.     It is the kind of release that can lead to big misses depending on the face/path - typically dropping the shoulder brings low point back (explains the OP talking about picking not compressing) and pushes path to the right - how much is dependent on the person but it only take a 5* difference in face/path at speed to launch it to the adjoining fairway.    

 

The OP doesn't scoop - he has a stall/flip or flip/roll - body stalls and arms straighten early with rapid roll of forearms to square face - best to see it from dtl view - as far as stall/flips go OP has a pretty manageable move - path isn't way right and he isn't really, really rapid in the roll - can see in his follow thru - lack of arc width (sternum to hands) by shaft parallel (and right hand appears flexed ) and then a bit further on you can see how much the face has rotated shut and his right hand has flexed.     Really poor stall/flips can have the club head past the hands by impact, or happen very quickly with a path too far to the right, lots of options.

 

 

Both these guys are good players, a 3 and a 7.    Matter of who can repeat the best.    No expert here but don't see anything that looks like it will lead to injury with age - the EE can lead to an achy back but neither of them have excessive side bend with it - one big benefit for me of getting rid of my EE was being able to walk off 18 and feel pretty good and not having to pull out the heating pad that night - this got worse as I got older - used to be able to carry 36 in a day no issue but once the 50s hit 18 started to become the limit and at 60 my wife bought me a push cart (why oh why didn't i use one sooner) and the soreness was typical.  All gone now.

Edited December 17, 2020 by glk

[milesgiles]

59 minutes ago, Twin2L said:

Miles, I saw the swing in your signature and it doesn’t appear that you set your hands nearly as early in the backswing and the tempo seems smoother. Perhaps it is the normal speed, or you were thinking through the shot more during the vid as player A. 

 

As a 2.7, you’d kick my butt each and every round, so what do I know. 🥴

 

Heck, I had you with the 2 way miss and got it totally wrong.

 

I admire ire that you both have your swings here for us to consider. It gives me some perspective on my own swing and the processes I have gone through. 

 

I also like like the work that Hammersia is doing with his swing. It looks like he’s going to be bringing his handicap down with what he’s working on. 

 

Thanks for for letting us play along.

 

My pleasure, and btw (as I’ve said a few times before), please, if your golf isn’t where you’d like it to be, post it up here and get some constructive criticism. Several people here helped me a lot this year and I can’t wait to try and take it further next year 

[b_f_c_99]

4 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Cheers lol

 

im in a position now where I can play consistently if not spectacularly. I’ll have a proper look later as I’m on mobile, but my instinct is that my belt buckle needs to be several inches to the left as we’re looking at it face on, at impact?

 

so yes, I can work around it(as I do) or fiddle with it with the cast drill etc..

 

tbh, I’m bound to fiddle because that’s golf.. I don’t like the idea of hitting bad shots because of ‘fixable’ bad technique.. 

 

Heres the thing:  "My chipping and putting is much better. I hit 10 greens on average, 240 drive, 150 ball speed at most."

 

You have figured out how to keep the ball in play despite the 'flaws' in your swing.  Really, a quality swing for us normal guys is one that produces enough distance to allow you to hit or be around greens in regulation without having to hit super long clubs into them.  I would suspect when you try and hit the ball further your accuracy and distance probably suffer.  From a purist standpoint that would mean you have to improve your move.  But do you?  I spent 15 years on a walkabout to come full circle back to what I do naturally.

 

I did figure out how to hit the ball further,  and it wasn't a body or arm or any sort of technical detail change.  I simply sped up the tempo of my entire move.   Just doing that improved my move in all sorts of ways.

 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, b_f_c_99 said:

 

Heres the thing:  "My chipping and putting is much better. I hit 10 greens on average, 240 drive, 150 ball speed at most."

 

You have figured out how to keep the ball in play despite the 'flaws' in your swing.  Really, a quality swing for us normal guys is one that produces enough distance to allow you to hit or be around greens in regulation without having to hit super long clubs into them.  I would suspect when you try and hit the ball further your accuracy and distance probably suffer.  From a purist standpoint that would mean you have to improve your move.  But do you?  I spent 15 years on a walkabout to come full circle back to what I do naturally.

 

I did figure out how to hit the ball further,  and it wasn't a body or arm or any sort of technical detail change.  I simply sped up the tempo of my entire move.   Just doing that improved my move in all sorts of ways.

 

It's true about speeding up, but often a slow move covers up the flaws in the swing. You're lucky that you increased the speed and didn't hit it worse. Generally if you want to hit it further you need better mechanics first. 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It's true about speeding up, but often a slow move covers up the flaws in the swing. You're lucky that you increased the speed and didn't hit it worse. Generally if you want to hit it further you need better mechanics first. 

 

If I speed up the backswing I lose the width in my right arm. If I speed up the downswing I clear even worse. My swing needs time to think.. 

[TheDeanAbides]

4 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

If I speed up the backswing I lose the width in my right arm. If I speed up the downswing I clear even worse. My swing needs time to think.. 

Which is a clear sign of faulty mechanics. 

[aenemated]

I'm flattered to have been mentioned so much. 

 

Play your game, doggies. 

[b_f_c_99]

8 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It's true about speeding up, but often a slow move covers up the flaws in the swing. You're lucky that you increased the speed and didn't hit it worse. Generally if you want to hit it further you need better mechanics first. 

I agree with everything you said.   I spent a lot of years trying out different things. The results were I managed to find lots of ways to hit it the same but having to work much harder to do it. If that makes sense.   When your working that hard at hitting positions you just end up swinging slower to give yourself time to get there.

[b_f_c_99]

6 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Which is a clear sign of faulty mechanics. 

I suspect your correct, when I sped up using tour tempo it all felt easier,  going slower was causing me problems.

[milesgiles]

12 hours ago, aenemated said:

I'm flattered to have been mentioned so much. 

 

Play your game, doggies. 

 

Either back up whatever you were trying to say or show yourself out? No one needs snarky comments 

[aenemated]

8 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Either back up whatever you were trying to say or show yourself out? No one needs snarky comments 

 

Back up what? Both break down the trail arm, both move out and over in transition (though B recovers better), both can't get their hips out of the way and one hits it off the bottom of the face and the over skulls it 20 feet in front of him. 

 

It's all in the videos, nothing to really back up. 

 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, aenemated said:

 

Back up what? Both break down the trail arm, both move out and over in transition (though B recovers better), both can't get their hips out of the way and one hits it off the bottom of the face and the over skulls it 20 feet in front of him. 

 

It's all in the videos, nothing to really back up. 

 

 

And  if you’d have said that we could have avoided the unpleasantness. 

 

Btw neither of mine was off the bottom of the club, but you knew that 

[aenemated]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

And  if you’d have said that we could have avoided the unpleasantness. 

 

Fail to recall any unpleasantness, just a response to the OP. I apologize if it was construed as such. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by aenemated

[Obee]

Just getting to this video. I would say Player B is the better ball-striker. Would be surprised if I'm wrong. Have no idea about their short games, putting, mental issues, etc.

[Obee]

On 12/17/2020 at 12:44 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

If either of them can break 85 I'll eat my hat... *munch, munch* 

 

You should see some of my old posts with different buddies' swings. If you're being serious, you would have been one of the guys guessing that my +handicap, competitive am buddies were 4 to 18 handicappers. LOL

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, Obee said:

 

You should see some of my old posts with different buddies' swings. If you're being serious, you would have been one of the guys guessing that my +handicap, competitive am buddies were 4 to 18 handicappers. LOL

I already knew the answer before I posted this. Twas just playing.

[Obee]

Curious, MG, have you guys switched to the new system yet? If so, what has happened to your index this year with the new system, versus previous years?

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

Curious, MG, have you guys switched to the new system yet? If so, what has happened to your index this year with the new system, versus previous years?

 

Yes I actually went up to 2.7 but there were so few qualifying rounds played this year.. the chap that beat me championship went from 3 to 1 and one of our pro’s who joins us went from scratch to plus 2. I think that’s about right, from talking to people here I’d say uk handicaps used to be 1-2 shots better on average 

nice to be on the same system my concern is that you go up and down very quickly with this world system, used to be completely impossible to go up or down 4-5 shots in a year 

[MrHateCoffee]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:17 AM, milesgiles said:

 

Id been staying away from even watching this video  as I didn’t want to mix it with other swing thoughts, but I’ve now given in to temptation lol

 

imo... stick with what you're already working on.  I fell into the trap and now I'm struggling because I'm stuck between NTC and what my instructor was telling me to do.  

[Lefty_3Jack]

On 12/16/2020 at 7:23 AM, double_d said:

'A' flips so bad, on the side view swing, I feel like he'd be impossible to club.

 

I could see him hitting the same iron +15 or -15 yards on what he THOUGHT was the exact same swing, just based on timing the flip.

 

I'd be surprised if 'A' was the better player, although nothing of short game is mentioned.

 

Who knows? If you saw Furyk's swing at the local muni and didn't know who he was, you'd never think he could shoot a 58 on tour and win a US Open with it.

 

 

You're wrong on both fronts.  There are plenty of "good" golfers who roll over just at impact and have consistent enough distance gaps.  The Schnee guy who posts on here all the time does it and won a club championship.  I would feel confident saying that most non-high school/college low single digit players look like that immediately after impact than not.  On the other end, if you saw Jim Furyk hitting balls on a range at your local course you'd that guy fucks pretty quickly.  

[Soloman1]

On 12/16/2020 at 6:52 AM, Soloman1 said:

 

I'll say A.

 

 

I'll quote myself.

 

Only PepperTurbo has never been wrong. I admit that I was wrong once in 1976. I met this woman in a bar . . . 

[milesgiles]

3 hours ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

imo... stick with what you're already working on.  I fell into the trap and now I'm struggling because I'm stuck between NTC and what my instructor was telling me to do.  

 

I did have a quick fiddle last week but wasn’t really getting it (specifically the ‘cast’ bit since I’m fairly happy with the backswing 

 

instead I tried the idea of raising and lowering the hips as discussed in the recent thread. (Monte, Amg and the Harrington vid). It definitely gets the hips turning as described and I could hit it decently within a few balls. Of course, that’s the amateur trap of looking for a quick fix, I tried filming it best I could, will have another go tomoz 

[TheDeanAbides]

40 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

I did have a quick fiddle last week but wasn’t really getting it (specifically the ‘cast’ bit since I’m fairly happy with the backswing 

 

instead I tried the idea of raising and lowering the hips as discussed in the recent thread. (Monte, Amg and the Harrington vid). It definitely gets the hips turning as described and I could hit it decently within a few balls. Of course, that’s the amateur trap of looking for a quick fix, I tried filming it best I could, will have another go tomoz 

Monte says over and over that NTC is no quick fix. There is no quick fix ever. Anything that alien is going to feel so strange that even getting the ball in the air is a miracle at first. 

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Monte says over and over that NTC is no quick fix. There is no quick fix ever. Anything that alien is going to feel so strange that even getting the ball in the air is a miracle at first. 

 

Definitely, I just couldn’t get the look or the feel of what I was supposed to be casting.. I’m not writing it off at all, but tilting rather than turning the hips felt like a more immediate effect and easier to work on for the time being..

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Definitely, I just couldn’t get the look or the feel of what I was supposed to be casting.. I’m not writing it off at all, but tilting rather than turning the hips felt like a more immediate effect and easier to work on for the time being..

It's dead simple. Recenter your weight and then ulnar deviate your wrists and bow your left wrist slightly at the same time. This lays the club down behind you. Then turn through. 

[milesgiles]

4 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It's dead simple. Recenter your weight and then ulnar deviate your wrists and bow your left wrist slightly at the same time. This lays the club down behind you. Then turn through. 

 

Had another fiddle..

 

 

 

 

 

I know its a terrible  angle front on will get a better one asap..

 

mmm.. Don’t know if I’m doing it correctly, the long pause is because that’s the speed my brain works.. it’s shallowed the transition, which is great for me, but apart from that I’m still in that position into impact that Monte says is ‘dead!’.. 

 

Sure I’m missing something..

[TheDeanAbides]

45 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Had another fiddle..

 

 

 

 

 

I know its a terrible  angle front on will get a better one asap..

 

mmm.. Don’t know if I’m doing it correctly, the long pause is because that’s the speed my brain works.. it’s shallowed the transition, which is great for me, but apart from that I’m still in that position into impact that Monte says is ‘dead!’.. 

 

Sure I’m missing something..

 

 

45 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Had another fiddle..

 

 

 

 

 

I know its a terrible  angle front on will get a better one asap..

 

mmm.. Don’t know if I’m doing it correctly, the long pause is because that’s the speed my brain works.. it’s shallowed the transition, which is great for me, but apart from that I’m still in that position into impact that Monte says is ‘dead!’.. 

 

Sure I’m missing something..

See your finish position? Do you think that you really rotated through? 

Edited December 24, 2020 by TheDeanAbides

[Hawkeye77]

On 12/19/2020 at 5:00 PM, Obee said:

 

You should see some of my old posts with different buddies' swings. If you're being serious, you would have been one of the guys guessing that my +handicap, competitive am buddies were 4 to 18 handicappers. LOL

He should look at some of your swings! 😀

 

I guarantee a few years ago if you just posted it up anonymously and asked for help you'd have gotten all sorts of theories and tips from some not so helpful folks.

 

Personally, I think it looks great, would take it from Santa tomorrow because I know what it produces - hope 2021 lets you get out and school some more folks out your way!

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

 

 

See your finish position? Do you think that you really rotated through? 

 

No, no i don’t..