Tiger v. Charlie

[leezer99]

I thought the Charlie coverage this week was pretty cool from a father's perspective although it got to be a bit much by Saturday night.  The stuff Tiger is doing with Charlie is a great example for many parents by being hands off on the golf swing, pushing him, etc.  One stat though that I don't think Charlie or any of our kids will be able to replicate in the near future is that Tiger was 36-0 in tournaments as an 11 year old.

 

Woods: I think probably life peaked at 11. I won 36 tournaments that year. I went 36-0. I got straight A's. Life was good.

 

Nobody is going to be the next Tiger (except maybe for #GolfProdigy) so comparing is pretty pointless.

 

Hope y'all have a great Christmas / Holiday break and you get to swat some balls around with your kiddos.

[tiger1873]

I think it' cool and all that tiger and charlie play golf but I honestly wish people would just leave them alone. 

 

Case in point Local US kids is so booked up because people want to play with Tiger's kid. It can be hard to do tournaments because they're full and you end up on a waitlist.

 

I expect Charlie to do well because lets be honest Tiger has just way more knowledge then pretty much anyone and has access to the best clubs, fitters instructors etc. Who wouldn't want Tiger as a caddie for a round. Heck just being on the green with him is a huge learning experience. (hence why US kids tournaments with him playing are booked up).

 

At the end of the day he is just a kid like everyone else and Tiger is a just a dad like all of us.

 

The PNC event is sort of made for PGA pro's to have good time.  It's good to see tiger and other touring pro's having fun. People though shouldn't get carried away that their kids are going to follow them on tour.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by tiger1873

[Fairway14]

In a post round interview Tiger explained that he and Charlie approached the PNC tournament with  a goal of playing "in their own little world", that the PNC should be "just like playing at home".

The above was Tiger's response to the interviewer's question about how Charlie dealt with the attention from cameras, spectators etc... 

As for Charlie's  golf swing Tiger has not been "hands off". Tiger taught Charlie what any competent instructor should teach, that is fundamentally sound address technique. Once that is learned a student's own effective swing will naturally emerge. Forty years ago that  is how Tiger was taught and now his son has received the same instruction.

[heavy_hitter]

I think the media eyes and fans anointing the kid as the next great thing has been way over the top.  In South Florida we know Charlie.  He struggles to break 80 from age appropriate distances.  My kid is significantly older, but Charlie is not known as being one of the better golfers in South Florida.  Average at best.  There are kids like Leezer's and Kekoa's that would beat him like a drum.  I find it odd people are drooling over him.  It is really weird.  

[krtgolfing]

17 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

I think the media eyes and fans anointing the kid as the next great thing has been way over the top.  In South Florida we know Charlie.  He struggles to break 80 from age appropriate distances.  My kid is significantly older, but Charlie is not known as being one of the better golfers in South Florida.  Average at best.  There are kids like Leezer's and Kekoa's that would beat him like a drum.  I find it odd people are drooling over him.  It is really weird.  

He is Tiger Woods son. Why is that so hard comprehend? 

[heavy_hitter]

7 minutes ago, krtgolfing said:

He is Tiger Woods son. Why is that so hard comprehend? 

And?  There is something wrong with grown adults being giddy over an 11 year old kid that can't break 80.  Don't care who his dad is.

Edited December 21, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

7 minutes ago, krtgolfing said:

He is Tiger Woods son. Why is that so hard comprehend? 

 

Everyone knows that but the kid also has to deal with that.  I mean how hard must it be that you need to live up to expectations of your dad one of the best golfers in time.

 

When Charlie plays tournaments that Tiger is on the bag he scores pretty well even if they are little short. I am guessing the same would happen to any number of kids playing golf if a player like tiger was on their bag too.   From what I can tell Tiger just wants his kid to enjoy a round golf like he did as a kid.

 

When tiger is not on the bag the kid seems to score like everyone else and it isn't as impressive.  The media though like talking about charlie as the next great thing.  In my opinion this sort of thing hurts junior golf more then it helps. 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by tiger1873

[cardoustie]

I'd say the odds are against Charlie.  Like the Nicklaus boys and sons of other tour pro's etc etc

 

Incredible that some sons have even made it to the PGA tour, let alone win. 

 

But to follow a HOF and perhaps GOAT father ?  Tough Nike shoes to fill 

 

Best wishes to him though, I like his action

[Fairway14]

2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

  I find it odd people are drooling over him.  It is really weird.  

 

Charlie's technique is fundamentally sound. That is what Tour pros are seeing when they watch Charlie address the ball and make swings.

[heavy_hitter]

19 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Charlie's technique is fundamentally sound. That is what Tour pros are seeing when they watch Charlie address the ball and make swings.

Most kids that play tournament golf today do have fundamentally sound technique.  Being fundamentally sound doesn't put the ball in the hole.

[LeoLeo99]

2 hours ago, krtgolfing said:

He is Tiger Woods son. Why is that so hard comprehend? 

Agreed.  No offense to Leezer's kid, but that's not a story.  Charlie is popular not just because he's 11 and really good at golf for an 11 year old.  He humanizes Tiger.  Something Tiger has sorely lacked his career.  It's charming to see Tiger out there smiling and relaxed and being a great dad in front of the cameras.  It's charming to see Tiger's son out there having fun, having fun, and also having Tiger swagger.  

[heavy_hitter]

6 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Agreed.  No offense to Leezer's kid, but that's not a story.  Charlie is popular not just because he's 11 and really good at golf for an 11 year old.  He humanizes Tiger.  Something Tiger has sorely lacked his career.  It's charming to see Tiger out there smiling and relaxed and being a great dad in front of the cameras.  It's charming to see Tiger's son out there having fun, having fun, and also having Tiger swagger.  

Only... he isn't really good for his golf at his age.  I think it is disgusting to pimp your kid.

Edited December 21, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[LeoLeo99]

Just now, heavy_hitter said:

Only... he isn't really good for his golf at his age.  

 You're comparing him to the top 11 year olds in the country.  The rest of us compare him to our kids or ourselves when we were 11.  

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 You're comparing him to the top 11 year olds in the country.  The rest of us compare him to our kids or ourselves when we were 11.  

No...  I am comparing him to 11 year old tournament golfers.  Specifically, just tournament golfers in the South Florida area.  He is average at best as a tournament golfer.

[heavy_hitter]

10 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 You're comparing him to the top 11 year olds in the country.  The rest of us compare him to our kids or ourselves when we were 11.  

 

One thing that is sorely missed by fans of golf is HOW GOOD junior tournament golfers are.  An 80 for a tournament golfer  at 8 years old is considered average at best.  By the time you are 11/12 an 80 is below average for a tournament golfer.  That isn't mean spirited, it is just reality.

[Fairway14]

11 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

No...  I am comparing him to 11 year old tournament golfers.  Specifically, just tournament golfers in the South Florida area.  He is average at best as a tournament golfer.

 

Again, for a youngster who wants to become an excellent player,  learning proper technique should be the goal at age 11, not scoring.

Had Charlie showed up on television revealing unorthodox technique the Tour pros commenting about him would not be as complementary as they were.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Again, for a youngster who wants to become an excellent player,  learning proper technique should be the goal at age 11, not scoring.

Had Charlie showed up on television revealing unorthodox technique the Tour pros commenting about him would not be as complementary as they were.

 

100% disagree and this is an argument had on here a lot.  How far you hit it is more important than technique at 11.  Many teaching coaches will disagree with you as well.  More important at that age is to be able to generate distance, you then teach the swing around it.

[leezer99]

18 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

100% disagree and this is an argument had on here a lot.  How far you hit it is more important than technique at 11.  Many teaching coaches will disagree with you as well.  More important at that age is to be able to generate distance, you then teach the swing around it.

@fairway14 if you listen to the last Get A Grip pod, a very very smart person asked if a 12-13 year old should focus on speed or accuracy and Max Homa replied, without hesitation, “speed!”  

[kekoa]

Charlie seems like a great kid with some game, but the media is taking this way too far like they do everything else.  When watching the PNC, you would be hard pressed knowing that anyone else was even playing that tournament.  

 

Anyhow, I know several 10-11 yr olds that are much more accomplished than Charlie. None of that matters, but just sayin.  Regardless, it will be hard to match the resources and opportunities that Charlie will have at his disposal simply because of his dad.   

[LeoLeo99]

12 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Charlie seems like a great kid with some game, but the media is taking this way too far like they do everything else.  When watching the PNC, you would be hard pressed knowing that anyone else was even playing that tournament.  

 

 

Just like when Tiger plays.  Tiger is good TV.  His son is, too.  

[heavy_hitter]

16 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Charlie seems like a great kid with some game, but the media is taking this way too far like they do everything else.  When watching the PNC, you would be hard pressed knowing that anyone else was even playing that tournament.  

 

Anyhow, I know several 10-11 yr olds that are much more accomplished than Charlie. None of that matters, but just sayin.  Regardless, it will be hard to match the resources and opportunities that Charlie will have at his disposal simply because of his dad.   

Your kid would beat him like a red headed step child from the same tees.  I don't even think little Kekoa is 11 yet is he?

[GrandStranded]

2 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 You're comparing him to the top 11 year olds in the country.  The rest of us compare him to our kids or ourselves when we were 11.  

He’s Tiger’s son. He has nothing in common with your kid or yourself when you were his age. He’s had, and will have, every advantage and opportunity anyone possibly could in this game already, and going forward he always will.

25 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Charlie seems like a great kid with some game, but the media is taking this way too far like they do everything else.  When watching the PNC, you would be hard pressed knowing that anyone else was even playing that tournament.  

 

Anyhow, I know several 10-11 yr olds that are much more accomplished than Charlie. None of that matters, but just sayin.  Regardless, it will be hard to match the resources and opportunities that Charlie will have at his disposal simply because of his dad.   

This.^^^^

Charlie is playing on national tv at the age of 11 only because of his fathers fame. 

They chose to do it, nobody forced them to. Media was always going to overdo the coverage... that’s what they do.

As far as Charlie and his junior golf career, his dad just put an even bigger target on his back. I’d imagine most 12 year old boys competing against him would love the idea of taking him down more than ever next year.

Lets see how this plays out. They chose the spotlight... for some reason this already feels like it’s going to play out like Michelle Wie redux.

Lots of media hype, and the boys versions of Morgan Pressel will savor every time they take him down.

Edited December 21, 2020 by john myrbch

[LeoLeo99]

12 minutes ago, john myrbch said:

He’s Tiger’s son. He has nothing in common with your kid or yourself when you were his age. He’s had, and will have, every advantage and opportunity anyone possibly could in this game already, and going forward he always will.

This.^^^^

Charlie is playing on national tv at the age of 11 only because of his fathers fame. 

They chose to do it, nobody forced them to. Media was always going to overdo the coverage... that’s what they do.

As far as Charlie and his junior golf career, his dad just put an even bigger target on his back. I’d imagine most 12 year old boys competing against him would love the idea of taking him down more than ever next year.

Lets see how this plays out. They chose the spotlight... for some reason this already feels like it’s going to play out like Michelle Wie redux.

Lots of media hype, and the boys versions of Morgan Pressel will savor every time they take him down.

We get it.  Your son/daughter can beat Tiger's son.  Tiger's son is on TV.  Your kid isn't.  Sounds like jealousy. 

[GrandStranded]

15 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

We get it.  Your son/daughter can beat Tiger's son.  Tiger's son is on TV.  Your kid isn't.  Sounds like jealousy. 

No, you really don’t get it.

The junior ranks in s.Fla and Myrtle Beach are full of kids better than Charlie.

He’s far from a prodigy.

BTW I don’t have a son. LOL but you keep fan boying Tiger and now his kid... it was a fun tournament this weekend... just not “hello world part 2”

Edited December 21, 2020 by john myrbch

[MB19]

2 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

 He humanizes Tiger.  Something Tiger has sorely lacked his career.  

It seemed like Tiger's very public divorce and (even more public) serial relationships with women nearly half his age humanized him quite a bit.

 

Not that all of us can relate to dating models, or even several at one time, but I think many of us can relate to making wifey so mad they want to swing our own clubs at us.

[dlygrisse]

All of you golf dads are really something, no one cares at this point if your kid is better than Charlie, it was fun watching Tiger play with his son, just because he is Tiger.  That being said, it will be several years before we know if your children, or children of your friends, or if CW is going to be a world class player, success or the lack of domination really don't mean a lot till they are in their 20's.  Lots of great juniors burned out or were injured  before they cashed in.  I'd keep putting money in the 401K if I were you.  

 

This junior golf thing seems like the worst thing to ever happen to kids playing golf, just by listening to the parents.  

 

It all comes down to "want to" in the end, TW was great because he had talent and he wanted it more than anyone, he worked his butt off and was hyper focused, because he wanted to be.  

[LeoLeo99]

19 minutes ago, MB19 said:

It seemed like Tiger's very public divorce and (even more public) serial relationships with women nearly half his age humanized him quite a bit.

 

Not that all of us can relate to dating models, or even several at one time, but I think many of us can relate to making wifey so mad they want to swing our own clubs at us.

That humanized him in a bad way.  This is one of the only times I've ever seen Tiger relaxed.  

[leezer99]

48 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Not that all of us can relate to dating models, or even several at one time...

Speak for yourself.

[Fairway14]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

@fairway14 if you listen to the last Get A Grip pod, a very very smart person asked if a 12-13 year old should focus on speed or accuracy and Max Homa replied, without hesitation, “speed!”  

 

Max Homa ? Please.

I guarantee you that when Jack Nicklaus or Tiger Woods is asked what should be the focus of instructing a youngster beginning his/her golf career

the answer will be "learn and practice fundamentally sound technique".

Remember, distance comes from making solid-square ball contact (which is most easily achieved by using proper technique). People have misunderstood Nicklaus when he advised youngsters/beginners to try and hit the ball a long ways. His comments were meant within the context of using proper technique, as I am sure are Homa's (or any other Tour pro asked that question).

[Medson]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

@fairway14 if you listen to the last Get A Grip pod, a very very smart person asked if a 12-13 year old should focus on speed or accuracy and Max Homa replied, without hesitation, “speed!”  

 

At the risk of derailing the thread, why "speed" and "accuracy" are either-or? I understand they are in an inverse relationship. The faster you swing, the less accurate you are. I got this. 

 

However, is there a set of instructions/practices that will improve speed but hurt accuracy. And a different set of instructions/practices that will improve accuracy at the expense of not adding speed?

 

I always (maybe incorrectly) thought that 1) you need to have good technique; 2) swing as fast as you can; 3) Maybe hold some in reserve during tournaments for accuracy.