OEM's are a big joke. How long before we have a 39 PW?

[bladehunter]

53 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Somebody buying something to have fun with that they like.

 

I realize your trying to fight the good fight but nobody asked you to fight it.  Literally nobody cares. 

 

I see you play Tour Issue shafts.  Definitely a good call, I'm sure your sensitivity to exactly 122 grams is really astute, and you haven't been swindled by True Temper.  If I gave you a 126 gram shaft you'd notice immediately, right?

 

Personally, I think the Tour Issue shafts in your bag are a massive con and you got bamboozled.  But I don't care.  Know why?  Because you bought them, not me.

Dude.  Obviously you care a great deal.  Same as I.  But come on. You can’t claim nobody cares.  You’re tweaking on this topic in two threads.  
 

id venture that we both. Or all care too much.  But we can’t say with a straight face that nobody cares. 

[blazman11]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

It matters the same way 460cc drivers mattered umpteen years ago.  At some point we won’t be given much of a choice.  If sales continue , then eventually you can only buy a 38 degree pw.  For example.  

That’s fine. I’ll just buy a 5-GW2 set and then come on the forums and complain when someone hits their 7 iron 220 yards because back in my day that was a 5 iron. 
 

[Titleist_PT23]

8 hours ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

 

If you actually think this I really worry about your knowledge of the game. Rory is hitting a 7i stock 188 carry (can step on it for a bit more) to arrive at a 200 yard pin. Might have been a bit of help yada yada. The point is, he's sitting in the high 130s for ball speed with a 7i and spinning it near 7k RPM. When he takes some off a shot to hit a certain distance, his baseline spin and peak height are higher, so taking some off that shot allows him to control distance and retain those. When we are talking about amateurs who mostly already lack the peak height and spin needed to hold a green, trying to cover yardages is more difficult. What you end up with is 6 degree gaps in the short irons and closer gaps in the long irons. It is not what you need to score better. It's just smoke and mirrors. My other thread regarding loft jacking had my numbers for my P730 6i vs my dad's P790 7i (Both approx 31*) in it. What essentially happened at the same shaft length (I won't get into carry as the snowflakes don't like people who hit ball far) is that the clubs went the same distance. So, by using the P790, I would essentially "lose" a club in the scoring range and I'd have to cover the gaps with less clubs. Further to that, with the 7 spinning like the 6, I have less effective spin to cover those scoring shots as well making it harder to go at tough pins etc. 

 

 

Rory yardages below for reference. 

 

 

Driver…………………………… 321 yards
3-wood …………………………. 287 yards
5-wood …………………………. 268 yards
3-iron …………………………… 245 yards
4-iron …………………………… 236 yards
5-iron …………………………… 217 yards
6-iron …………………………… 205 yards
7-iron  ………………………….. 188 yards
8-iron …………………………… 176 yards
9-iron …………………………… 161 yards
Pitching wedge ………………. 146 yards
Sand wedge …………………… 122 yards
Lob wedge …………………….. 105 yards

 

Source:

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2020/04/21/a-close-up-look-at-rory-mcilroys-taylormade-equipment/2/

Rory PW is really a 9.5 iron.  Please adjust the table.

[wedgegame]

6 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

Is there not rules regulating what you can put into competitive play already rather then just letting people use anything?  Is this not "regulating what they should and shouldn't buy"?

Weak argument. Every sport with equipment has some type of regulations for the sake of fair competition.  Not to mention you can buy non conforming clubs if you want too.  Nobody is regulating you but yourself.

 

Oh and if you want to play competitively you are going to be bound to some type regulations, but again you are choosing to play that way.

[Rory Mcilwoods]

On 2/2/2021 at 3:18 PM, sonnygolf said:

It wont be long before the OEM's break into 30's mark with regards to PW lofts. This is going to be very funny see how the OEMs and players end up with an identity crisis. The word gap wedge will mean more than one club  with players carrying 6 wedges. They might as well do away with the faux numbering 4  - 9 on irons and we call all irons by their lofts. But that wont suit their agenda because nothing is more cool for OEMS than hear some newbie say "I hit my 7 iron 210, these clubs are super amazing".

 

Listening to OEM marketing guys talk about their new super duper jacked up clubs is worse than a greasy car salesmen trying to sell you a faulty car. People need to call them out rather than pander to them.

 

 

 

I agree with you. Same with Drivers.  At a Titleist fitting, I was hitting a 9 degree TSi2 set at D2 7 yards further than my 9.5 917D3 set at A2.

 

That new Titanium face is just amazing!!!  Seven More Yards!!!!!!

[Rory Mcilwoods]

..

Edited February 5, 2021 by Rory Mcilwoods
sc

[Rory Mcilwoods]

.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Rory Mcilwoods
sc

[Tree Levino]

Can anybody that is pro loft-jacking actually give me a benefit to having 6 degree scoring gaps instead of 4?

[ReidThompson]

5 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Can anybody that is pro loft-jacking actually give me a benefit to having 6 degree scoring gaps instead of 4?

Agreed,  and the launch thing is silly.  The AW And GW are the same design and CG.

[pinestreetgolf]

12 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

1.  Is there not rules regulating what you can put into competitive play already rather then just letting people use anything?  Is this not "regulating what they should and shouldn't buy"?

2.  a 170y 7 iron isn't far at all...   I'm a bit embarrassed for you in thinking it is...

3.  Yes OEM's are full of "marketing gimmicks" and this is calling them out on it...  The fact you don't have an issue with it is a bit disturbing.  Baaaaaaah Baaahhhh

 

There are such rules.

I suppose I should be embarrassed too in that case.

I have an issue with hypocrites who choose one OEM lie to berate others about and another OEM lie to put in their bags.

 

44 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

Can anybody that is pro loft-jacking actually give me a benefit to having 6 degree scoring gaps instead of 4?

 

We're not "pro loft-jacking".  We're anti a handful of old and/or really good golf dudes thinking they should be able to regulate what we can buy at the golf shop because of some arbitrary standard the PW was when they turned 25.

 

12 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Dude.  Obviously you care a great deal.  Same as I.  But come on. You can’t claim nobody cares.  You’re tweaking on this topic in two threads.  
 

id venture that we both. Or all care too much.  But we can’t say with a straight face that nobody cares. 

 

I meant that nobody cares about being protected from OEMs by you guys.

[setter02]

6 hours ago, wedgegame said:

Weak argument. Every sport with equipment has some type of regulations for the sake of fair competition.  Not to mention you can buy non conforming clubs if you want too.  Nobody is regulating you but yourself.

 

Oh and if you want to play competitively you are going to be bound to some type regulations, but again you are choosing to play that way.

 

Except that isn't true at all.  What rules in the MLB or the NBA are in place WRT equipment that is for the sake of "fair competition" that every other team couldn't do the same?  If everyone can do the same thing, it isn't 'for the sake of fair competition'...

 

You've completely missed the point in that you aren't given an actual choice, but have to follow said rules.  If anything, you could say it is a discriminatory practice limiting choice.

Edited February 5, 2021 by setter02

[setter02]

I think your rocking chair is calling Pine.  I don't even know what you are going on about at this point, and I'm not sure you have for the last few pages.

Edited February 5, 2021 by setter02

[chippa13]

14 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

The lie is that the OEM's are constantly "jacking" the lofts of things and saying you'll hit xyz iron further because of all this new "tech".  This isn't even something I would assume a wrx'r would ask...  The VAST majority of golfers have no clue what so ever about what their specs are, left alone be able to recite lofts of various sets.  That is the issue, not that a wrx'r has a basic understanding, that they are misleading the general public that they are recreating the wheel each generation.

 

If you bought a set with a 43* PW and are happy with that set, congrats, you have a set of irons that you are happy with.  But if your next set is purchased under the impression that you hit your next PW further without being informed about what the loft is, what would you call that? 

Blissful ignorance.

[setter02]

5 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Blissful ignorance.

 

Delusional worthwhile addition?

[chippa13]

2 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Delusional worthwhile addition?

If you don't like the answer then don't ask the question. You're shouting at the storm.

[wedgegame]

27 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Except that isn't true at all.  What rules in the MLB or the NBA are in place WRT equipment that is for the sake of "fair competition" that every other team couldn't do the same?  If everyone can do the same thing, it isn't 'for the sake of fair competition'...

 

You've completely missed the point in that you aren't given an actual choice, but have to follow said rules.  If anything, you could say it is a discriminatory practice limiting choice.

Since you are asking, could you please elaborate on your first paragraph?  It's really hard to follow.

 

If you implying that the MLB doesn't have regulations on equipment then well I don't know what to tell you.

[bladehunter]

59 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

There are such rules.

I suppose I should be embarrassed too in that case.

I have an issue with hypocrites who choose one OEM lie to berate others about and another OEM lie to put in their bags.

 

 

We're not "pro loft-jacking".  We're anti a handful of old and/or really good golf dudes thinking they should be able to regulate what we can buy at the golf shop because of some arbitrary standard the PW was when they turned 25.

 

 

I meant that nobody cares about being protected from OEMs by you guys.

Some of us do.  I think that’s what you’re missing.  Those that don’t , shouldn’t care.  Right ? 

[pinestreetgolf]

22 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

I think your rocking chair is calling Pine.  I don't even know what you are going on about at this point, and I'm not sure you have for the last few pages.

 

I had no idea there were mean Canadians.  

 

My posts are pretty simple, I'm not sure what is hard to understand. 

 

Point #1:

I think people should have a huge array of choice in buying golf gear because its fun.  A mid-cap buying jacked loft irons because he wants to is no different than an 8 cap (you) buying "Tour Issue" shafts he doesn't need.  Its fun. Knock it off with the fun police.

 

Point #2:

At one point in history, as detailed by another poster, there were 52* pitching wedges.  46/47 is jacked lofts.  Your selection of what is a PW (46/47?) is arbitrary.  Any bag without a Niblick is clearly trying to convince their buddies they are longer than they are.  Its a sliding scale, and your choice of 46 as the line is completely random and, as such, ridiculous to enforce.  The acceptable loft for a PW changes over time.  You know this, because you are not holding the line at 52*.  So those six degrees (46-52) are OK, the next six are not.  Gotcha.

 

Point #3:

You can buy a traditional loft iron -1.5" and it is suddenly identical to a jacked loft iron.  Theres no difference between the two if you modify the shaft length.  That makes this argument dumb.

 

Point #4:

I use jacked loft irons and I think they are fun and effective.  I don't want other people not to consider such models because people like you try to hate on them.  You can caution people against it, but the idea that you think they should not be made at all - based on some line you've arbitrarily drawn for loft that has changed a ton over the years - is anti-commerce and anti-fun.

 

In other words, get your hands out other people's bags unless they ask you.  Offering sweeping condemnations of idiots who are fooled by OEMs is condescending and rude.  Until you started getting personal (see above) I didn't feel the need to inform you that an 8 cap thinking he needs tour issue shafts is a joke.  So, don't do that to other people.  Its your bag, and if you want tour issue, awesome.  If a golfer wants jacked lofts, they should be available.

 

There you go, all in one place.

[forrester_fire]

I personally don't care what number is stamped on the bottom of my clubs and I really don't care what number is stamped on the bottom of my buddies' clubs.  All I care about is whether I can carry whichever club has whichever number stamped a predictable distance with the necessary flight characteristics (descent angle/spin) to stop a reasonable distance from which it (hopefully) hit the green.

 

Edit:  I don't think these super-jacked irons are aimed at your average WRXer, anyway.  For me, a 45 degree PW is as "jacked" as I'll go, mostly so I don't have to fill the bottom of my bag with extra wedges.

Edited February 5, 2021 by forrester_fire

[pinestreetgolf]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Some of us do.  I think that’s what you’re missing.  Those that don’t , shouldn’t care.  Right ? 

 

Do you think jacked lofts shouldn't be made at all, come with a disclaimer, be limited to one line per company.... how would you regulate this, blade?  You own the world, how to solve this problem?

 

Please don't confuse my response to that other guy with you.  You've always been respectful and we have disagreed a lot over the last 6-7 years.

[pinestreetgolf]

2 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Do you think jacked lofts shouldn't be made at all, come with a disclaimer, be limited to one line per company.... how would you regulate this, blade?  You own the world, how to solve this problem?

 

Please don't confuse my response to that other guy with you.  You've always been respectful and we have disagreed a lot over the last 6-7 years.

 

For example, would you be OK if the 3 iron was always 21* but in some the jacked lines its 38" and in traditional lines its 39.5"?

 

Because you could easily make a set with the "correct" (for y'all) numbers on the bottom for loft but exactly the same as the Mavriks if you slid shaft length down about 1.262 inches per club.  This would give a 18* 2 iron, 21* 3 iron, etc... identical to the MP20 except much shorter shafts.

Edited February 5, 2021 by pinestreetgolf

[setter02]

14 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

Since you are asking, could you please elaborate on your first paragraph?  It's really hard to follow.

 

If you implying that the MLB doesn't have regulations on equipment then well I don't know what to tell you.

 

I didn't say they don't have regulations.  You said for the 'sake of fair competition', I just simply disagreed with that as it isn't an actual thing WRT to the example you provided.

[setter02]

16 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

For example, would you be OK if the 3 iron was always 21* but in some the jacked lines its 38" and in traditional lines its 39.5"?

 

Because you could easily make a set with the "correct" (for y'all) numbers on the bottom if you slid shaft length down about 1.262 inches per club.

 

You just quoted yourself and replied, to yourself...

 

As for your long winded, ummm, thing, both huh and wow all rolled up into one...  3 out of 4 a solid lol.

Edited February 5, 2021 by setter02

[wedgegame]

13 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

I didn't say they don't have regulations.  You said for the 'sake of fair competition', I just simply disagreed with that as it isn't an actual thing WRT to the example you provided.

You don't think ball and bat regulations are intended to preserve fair competition?

 

My point was the governing bodies of pretty much all sports leagues place regulations on equipment used for competitive play.  Those regulations do not prevent an individual from purchasing and using equipment that falls outside of regulations.  It seemed you implied this was the case.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Except that isn't true at all.  What rules in the MLB or the NBA are in place WRT equipment that is for the sake of "fair competition" that every other team couldn't do the same?  If everyone can do the same thing, it isn't 'for the sake of fair competition'...

 

You've completely missed the point in that you aren't given an actual choice, but have to follow said rules.  If anything, you could say it is a discriminatory practice limiting choice.

 

23 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

I didn't say they don't have regulations.  You said for the 'sake of fair competition', I just simply disagreed with that as it isn't an actual thing WRT to the example you provided.

 

You were discussing regulations for playing equipment.

 

If those regulations are NOT for the "sake of fair competition", what ARE they for ?

[kiwihacker]

For a guy who claims not to care Pinestreet sure spends a lot of time, words and keystrokes on this topic even quoting and replying to himself.

 

Pine, on this thread and the other one about ego you seem to have conceded that a modern jacked loft let's say 27° 7 iron will go the same distance as an old 27° 5 iron, with matching lofts and shaft lengths.  So despite all the claims about modern tech the clubs are only going further because yesterday's 5 iron is now called a 7 iron. At least we can agree on that.

 

The reason I bring that up is that there was another thread on this topic in the past year or so where you argued that distance is all important to scoring and these 'distance' irons were helping shorter hitters score better. The obvious rebuttal to that is they aren't hitting it any further at all. They're simply hitting a 27° club stamped 7 instead of a 27° club stamped 5. Before they would reach for a 5 iron, now they reach for a 7 iron and think they're hitting their new clubs further. Which is fine and that's great if they love their new clubs. But is hitting a 27° iron labeled 7 instead of a 27° iron labeled 5 really going to help them score better?

Edited February 5, 2021 by kiwihacker

[bladehunter]

29 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Do you think jacked lofts shouldn't be made at all, come with a disclaimer, be limited to one line per company.... how would you regulate this, blade?  You own the world, how to solve this problem?

 

Please don't confuse my response to that other guy with you.  You've always been respectful and we have disagreed a lot over the last 6-7 years.

Thank you first off. I know I’m a jerk face at times.  If I’m honest. But it’s from a love of debate. Not a place of purpose or hate. 
 

that being said. For me it’s simple.  Very simple.  They should just print lofts on the clubs.  Or- make say 45 degrees the strongest pw acceptable industry wide.  And that’s not my preference. It’s just me giving in a bit.   There’s no reason for the loft creep except sales. They sell gap wedges because of it. And they sell iron sets because of it. 
 

You have to admit that caling a 38 degree club any type of “wedge “ is simply dishonest.  You can no more pitch with that club and control it than I can putt with a driver.  

[setter02]

3 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

You were discussing regulations for playing equipment.

 

If those regulations are NOT for the "sake of fair competition", what ARE they for ?

 

Safety wrt aluminum bats.  But you can't use the 'fair competition' analogy if everyone has access to the same stuff.  Are you going to then say that ABC team has better players so they have an 'unfair' advantage over XYZ so regulations should be in place?

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Safety wrt aluminum bats.  But you can't use the 'fair competition' analogy if everyone has access to the same stuff.  Are you going to then say that ABC team has better players so they have an 'unfair' advantage over XYZ so regulations should be in place?

 

Sorry but we will have to agree to disagree.

[setter02]

7 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

You don't think ball and bat regulations are intended to preserve fair competition?

 

My point was the governing bodies of pretty much all sports leagues place regulations on equipment used for competitive play.  Those regulations do not prevent an individual from purchasing and using equipment that falls outside of regulations.  It seemed you implied this was the case.

 

 

As I said in the other reply, no those regulations have nothing to do with fair competition because ALL parties have access to the exact same products.  Just having a regulation on a ball that is used by everyone isn't a regulation for 'fair competition'.