Apex 21 Lineup Vs. Srixon lineup?

[SeaIsland]

So when are our favorite Youtube reviewers going to address the two latest elephants in the room that, I think, most of us are interested in hearing about:

 

1. Ping 425 Fairways and hybrids vs. Taylormade Sim2 fairways and hybrids.

2. Srixon ZX irons vs. the 2021 Apex lineup. 

 

I know it's early, but these guys are normally in front of the actual product releases. Anyone have any experience with, for example, the ZX5/7 vs. the new Apex Pros... ? 

[toddmanley]

TXG did this video about a month ago on the 2021 Apex irons.  I've hit both the ZX7 and the new Apex's - going with a new set of Apex Pros.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by toddmanley

[SeaIsland]

I saw this video... I see them all. As you know, they only made a vague comparative reference. I'm totally intrigued by your decision. Please tell me why... I was all ready to pull the trigger on ZX5s (or a possible last minute impulse to go with the ZX7s) and then the Apex Pros emerge as what appears to be an equally forgiving distance-built option (with the full range of MMTs as supported shaft options). 

[pdiddy3]

Cally grabbing all MMT options is huge! Srixon missed the boat by only offering 105 stiff!

[toddmanley]

16 minutes ago, SeaIsland said:

 I'm totally intrigued by your decision. Please tell me why...

 

I detailed my fitting experience here:  

 

Forgot to mention my ball speed was much higher with the Apex Pro's versus the ZX7's given the same swing speed (smash of 1.36 vs. 1.41).

Edited February 12, 2021 by toddmanley

[SeaIsland]

2 minutes ago, pdiddy3 said:

Cally grabbing all MMT options is huge! Srixon missed the boat by only offering 105 stiff!

Agreed. Not unlike Ping grabbing Tensei AV Raw (orange). Wanna buy that shaft in a new SIM2? Check out the upcharge...

[pdiddy3]

I'm not sold on wood shafts. TM did it with ventus, titleist did it with speeder and diamana back in day. All same profile, but tweaks on material. I've watched it first hand. You can't charge 500 for a driver with a 350 shaft, cuts your margin. There is a tradeoff somewhere!! 

[elcgolf]

Sorry to thread jack, but as someone that’s in the market for new irons, I only wish that either of these companies would adopt the Cobra tour or Wilson looks with the square toe. Why do all brands continue putting out rounded toe irons? I know Srixon has always been in this camp, but Callaway seems to be continuing to drift in this direction with each iteration, especially with the newest release. I wish Callaway would hand over the reins to Roger Cleveland again in the design process. 

[tmax77]

Agreed Roger definitely had some iconic designs for Callaway go back to those...

[runningblind11]

1 hour ago, pdiddy3 said:

I'm not sold on wood shafts. TM did it with ventus, titleist did it with speeder and diamana back in day. All same profile, but tweaks on material. I've watched it first hand. You can't charge 500 for a driver with a 350 shaft, cuts your margin. There is a tradeoff somewhere!! 

OEM'S don't pay retail for shafts, that would be silly. That 350 shaft you buy costs the manufacturer <75 to make and probably <100 for an OEM to buy in bulk. Driver cost for them is still maybe ~175 with that shaft? They sell to you for 500, or to a retailer for half that, who sells it to you for 500 still. They're making their money on the driver.  Whether that money can cover marketing and operating costs is another question but that has to do with if they are good at running the business or not.

[Freddie]

The Apex 19/Pro combo is my current gamer and been in the bag about a year and a half and love them. The ZX7 intrigue me and I tested it next to my Apex 19's a couple times (7i only).  Liked the feel of the ZX7 but not much better than the Apex, if at all.  Dispersion of the first session about equal with the edge going to Srixon; distance about equal but didn't hit too many.  2nd session the Apex was 5-10  yards longer, dispersion again about equal with the edge going to the Apex.  I could game the ZX7 but really like the Apex/Apex Pro combo, Elevate Tour shaft; great feel and great distance and dispersion for me.  Gonna take a lot to kick them out of the bag; just a great iron/shaft combo for me.  For the record I'm about a 4 index.

[SeaIsland]

4 minutes ago, Freddie said:

The Apex 19/Pro combo is my current gamer and been in the bag about a year and a half and love them. The ZX7 intrigue me and I tested it next to my Apex 19's a couple times (7i only).  Liked the feel of the ZX7 but not much better than the Apex, if at all.  Dispersion of the first session about equal with the edge going to Srixon; distance about equal but didn't hit too many.  2nd session the Apex was 5-10  yards longer, dispersion again about equal with the edge going to the Apex.  I could game the ZX7 but really like the Apex/Apex Pro combo, Elevate Tour shaft; great feel and great distance and dispersion for me.  Gonna take a lot to kick them out of the bag; just a great iron/shaft combo for me.  For the record I'm about a 4 index.

Would you agree that the new Pros are about as forgiving as your regular Apex 19s? 

 

[Scootre]

Hit the Apex and Apex Pros, ZX5 and ZX7s. I went with the ZX5/ZX7 combo set. I preferred the sound and feel of the ZX7s over the Pros. The ZX5s were so much more consistent (dispersion)than the Callaways on the launch monitor. I'm coming from a set of Adams XTD forged I've had since they came out. 

[Lobber]

Srixon's not available for custom orders on their website right now.  They are not taking orders.  Callaway is if that makes a difference.

[Ryan19jwu]

I went through this and ended with the Zx5/7 combo. Coming from the Apex pro 19’s I really wanted to go with the Apex, but the numbers with the srixon were significantly better. Especially in the longer irons(Zx5)in the Srixon where I didn’t feel comfortable with the longer irons in the Apex. I would have gone with the pro’s through the whole bag but the Srixon combo was much better as a whole. 
 

 

[JJgolfwrx]

 Zx5/7 combos are gonna be popular this year. I'd say that my only concern with the apex pro/ apex combo is that the apex pro takes taper tip and the apex are parallel. which has always puzzled me why they would do that. The bend profiles are different.

 

[MH2]

10 hours ago, JJgolfwrx said:

 Zx5/7 combos are gonna be popular this year. I'd say that my only concern with the apex pro/ apex combo is that the apex pro takes taper tip and the apex are parallel. which has always puzzled me why they would do that. The bend profiles are different.

 

I agree, it doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t like the fact if you order the standard Callaway combo set you get the parallel mmt shafts which are higher launching/higher spinning shafts than the taper version 

[Lefty1283]

7 hours ago, MH2 said:

I agree, it doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t like the fact if you order the standard Callaway combo set you get the parallel mmt shafts which are higher launching/higher spinning shafts than the taper version 

Is this true?  I thought they were only offering MMT in the odd numbers (85, 95, etc), which are the taper tip models. 

[wdaig1]

The new ZX7 irons feel awesome and in testing the flight and feel is perfect. Now the new Apex Pros look great.  I just wonder if they have the same flier issues as the 2019 model?

[MH2]

4 hours ago, Lefty1283 said:

Is this true?  I thought they were only offering MMT in the odd numbers (85, 95, etc), which are the taper tip models. 

I’m sure I read the standard apex are parallel only and if you order the combo set they used different tooling to match the standards so parallel shafts are used. I could very well be wrong and in the mmt they are only using the taper tips with shims. That would make it easier for me to order the combo set. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by MH2

[BirdieBob]

17 minutes ago, MH2 said:

I’m sure I read the standard apex are parallel only and if you order the combo set they used different tooling to match the standards so parallel shafts are used. I could very well be wrong and in the mmt they are only using the taper tips with shims. That would make it easier for me to order the combo set. 

 

For the Apex the MMT is available in the 85, 95, 105 which are taper tip....as a custom option.

 

[Freddie]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:39 PM, SeaIsland said:

Would you agree that the new Pros are about as forgiving as your regular Apex 19s? 

 

I would agree that the Pros are about as forgiving as the Apex.  Both have great feel and  distance for me.

[Lobber]

7 hours ago, wdaig1 said:

The new ZX7 irons feel awesome and in testing the flight and feel is perfect. Now the new Apex Pros look great.  I just wonder if they have the same flier issues as the 2019 model?

According to reviews and Cally the "artificial intelligence" employed in the Apex 21 have dramatically improved consistency and reduced possibility of fliers.  Mine arrive Monday so I will let you know

[dj6627]

785s Vs Apex Pro 2020...

785s soft ‘solid’ feel

Pro 2020 soft ‘mushy’ feel

 

Looking forward to hit Apex 2021s...

 

Black iron option?

[mitchdpg]

This podcast from GolfWRX also sheds some additional light on the ZX7s vs Apex Pros (start at the 27 minute mark): 

https://www.golfwrx.com/648929/club-junkie-odyssey-ten-putter-review-and-hitting-the-new-callaway-apex-pro-irons/

 

Highlights include:

• Apex Pro being slightly more forgiving on the 3-7 iron having the AI Cup Face, slight mishits perform slightly better on the Apex Pros
• Blade Length: ZX7 slightly longer blade length heel to toe
• Bounce: ZX7 has more bounce with their v sole, better for diggers or beaver pelt takers than Apex Pro 21
  • Apex Pro 21 slightly better for shallow divot takers due to less bounce-ZX7's sole gets into and back out of the turf better
• Feel/Sound: ZX7 softer, more muted forged iron sound; Apex Pro: slightly more clicky sound in 3-7 iron (8-PW quieter/softer with likely because of no AI face)
• Offset: online offset measurements are very similar, however Club Junkie said he felt the ZX7 hosel design made it appear to have less offset than Apex Pro
• Topline: Apex Pro 21 slightly thinner

I hope this helps, I'm a digger/beaver pelt taker (semi-steep with irons) and I'm leaning towards the ZX7s. I currently play Apex Pro Combo '19s and can confirm that I absolutely love the feel of the 8-PW in the Apex Pro '19 model. I really don't like the offset on the 3-7 iron on the standard Apex, and yes I get fliers from the standard Apex that once in a while just fly over the green. The ZX7's felt quite a bit softer to me and the blade length also looks slightly longer than Apex Pro '21 (short blade lengths make me nervous at times). Koepka loved the ZX7s over his Mizuno JPX 919 Tours and made the switch as well. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by mitchdpg

[dmeeksDC]

ZX5 was a non-starter for me with the really wide soles. Looks fine from top, very chunky sole and a lot of bounce. The ZX7 is for most players going to provide a more pure feel vs the standard Apex or Pro heads with cupfaces. But if you bought the 745 or 785, basically the same iron. Anyway, in Srixon it’s 700 series over 500 all the way for me. 

 

For me the setup I am considering most is maybe standard Apex in the long irons and either XFCB or Apex TCB in the scoring clubs. The thinner Callaway sole and camber is appealing and while the Srixon v-sole is a nice design I am pretty standard on angle of attack, not steep or a sweeper.

Edited March 7, 2021 by dmeeksDC