2022 Course Conditions - Phoenix Area

[puttnforthe8]

15 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I don't know about Papago but GCU senior city card twilite rate is $39 with a cart OR walking. Aguila is $30 to walk but the GM told me today City Courses are raising their prices $5 Jan 1st. He isn't the smartest guy and I hope he is wrong. Jumping from $24 to $30 last year to now and another $5 to start 2023 is close to a 50% increase. Not a big deal compared to winter rates at many others but when you play 5 times a week $11 a round is a HUGE increase. 

Umm...seems 'smart' to me....why would you not recoup costs and try to profit when rates have not been raised in ages!  You are doing simple math saying 50% increase!   You need to be fair and factor in time!

 

DUMB = McDowell Mountain goes from $50 - 90 - 140 - 200+ in the span of a few years = $40 / Year

 

Aguila = $25 for the last 10 years to $35.  = $1 / Year

 

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by puttnforthe8

[chisag]

1 hour ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Aguila = $25 for the last 10 years to $35.  = $1 / Year

 

... Oh I hear ya. But Aguila went up $1 a year the last 2 years for senior city card twilite and then $6 this year. Another $5 in less than 4 months is pretty crazy.  

Edited October 22, 2022 by chisag

[fore_life]

Shrink the game

[Bonneville85308]

I was discussing the PHX muni courses with someone the other day and they said they wondered why they don't sell an annual unlimited-play pass. I thought, thank God they don't, with the way every other course is priced now, every middle class retiree and snowbird in PHX metro who doesn't live in a 55+ golf community would buy one and play every day. The courses would lose a ton of revenue (tee time spot that would sell for $30-$40 is now taken by Lenny with his annual pass that he's got his average cost per round down to $15 on) and getting morning tee times would be even more impossible than it is now.

[chisag]

3 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

I was discussing the PHX muni courses with someone the other day and they said they wondered why they don't sell an annual unlimited-play pass. I thought, thank God they don't, with the way every other course is priced now, every middle class retiree and snowbird in PHX metro who doesn't live in a 55+ golf community would buy one and play every day. The courses would lose a ton of revenue (tee time spot that would sell for $30-$40 is now taken by Lenny with his annual pass that he's got his average cost per round down to $15 on) and getting morning tee times would be even more impossible than it is now.

 

 

... Amen, and thank goodness I exclusively play twilite. But even then after the middle of November through Spring Training, if I don't log on at midnight the chances of getting one of the first 4 twilite tee times gets pretty slim. I think the rates with a city card and every 11th round free is as good as it gets for winter in Phoenix. The number of snowbird Canadians I get paired up with is off the charts. 

... One thing I wish they would change is charging no shows or banning them from future rounds. Last winter we were paired up with a couple and it was a good day. They had the next 2 days at the same first out twilite time but didn't show for either day. The difference between a 2some instead of a 4 some following another 4some just causes a ton of waiting not to mention someone else would love that time. 

[jatrain]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Amen, and thank goodness I exclusively play twilite. But even then after the middle of November through Spring Training, if I don't log on at midnight the chances of getting one of the first 4 twilite tee times gets pretty slim. I think the rates with a city card and every 11th round free is as good as it gets for winter in Phoenix. The number of snowbird Canadians I get paired up with is off the charts. 

... One thing I wish they would change is charging no shows or banning them from future rounds. Last winter we were paired up with a couple and it was a good day. They had the next 2 days at the same first out twilite time but didn't show for either day. The difference between a 2some instead of a 4 some following another 4some just causes a ton of waiting not to mention someone else would love that time. 

This right here.  Aguila particularly is

frustrating as it’s so difficult to get a tee time.  There’s not an insignificant number of rounds that I see several groups with less than a foursome when the tee sheet is full.  Talking to the staff, they’ve said to just come up and hang out and a lot of the time they can get a single out but it’s just too far down there for me to go without a guarantee. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by jatrain

[Bonneville85308]

34 minutes ago, jatrain said:

This right here.  Aguila particularly is

frustrating as it’s so difficult to get a tee time.  There’s not an insignificant number of rounds that I see several groups with less than a foursome when the tee sheet is full.  Talking to the staff, they’ve said to just come up and hang out and a lot of the time they can get a single out but it’s just too far down there for me to go without a guarantee. 

 

The "show up and hope" method does usually work there, but I am one of those people who needs to know in advance when he is teeing off/roughly when he will be done and that he has a guaranteed round or otherwise I worry myself to death. If someone is going to try the "show up and hope" method, I highly recommend calling at least the day before to make sure they don't have any groups that have part of the tee sheet blocked off on the day you want to play. There are some large traveling leagues that will take up several hours of weekend morning tee times. You don't want to drive all the way there to find that out. They sometimes would post a sheet listing those blocked-off tee times and dates for groups/leagues in the restroom and in the pro shop but half the time they forgot to update it each month.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[FlashNoonan]

Tres Rios yesterday. Looks like they're spending money. Bunkers all have been redone with new sand and drainage. They said the greens were reworked but I couldn't tell. Rolled true but were slow. Fairways were a bit shaggy and the fringes were really nice. They let the rough grow really long so if you missed the fairway and didn't see exactly where it went. You could lose your ball easily. Other note. Being fresh out of overseed. It should have been CPO but people were driving their carts everywhere. So I'm not sure how long the grass will last if they don't keep an eye on people driving in the fairways for a few weeks. 

[AZ_JHWK]

22 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

 

The "show up and hope" method does usually work there, but I am one of those people who needs to know in advance when he is teeing off/roughly when he will be done and that he has a guaranteed round or otherwise I worry myself to death. If someone is going to try the "show up and hope" method, I highly recommend calling at least the day before to make sure they don't have any groups that have part of the tee sheet blocked off on the day you want to play. There are some large traveling leagues that will take up several hours of weekend morning tee times. You don't want to drive all the way there to find that out. They sometimes would post a sheet listing those blocked-off tee times and dates for groups/leagues in the restroom and in the pro shop but half the time they forgot to update it each month.

I did the 12 am tee time login Friday for the following Sunday at Aguila this week. There was nothing until around 10:45. Never had that happen before. They must have set aside at least 2 hours of times for some event or league. 

[MackDaddy480]

1 hour ago, AZ_JHWK said:

I did the 12 am tee time login Friday for the following Sunday at Aguila this week. There was nothing until around 10:45. Never had that happen before. They must have set aside at least 2 hours of times for some event or league. 

There is Aguila mens club on 10/30, 11/26 and 12/18. 

[Double K]

On 10/21/2022 at 10:04 AM, fore_life said:

 

i looked at prices next weekend in Scottsdale just for a giggle.....

Stadium over $400, sunridge canyon, ambiente, and phoenician are over$220 lol!

 

orange tree was $145, winter golf here can eat it.

 

But how much is Las Sendas? 🤔🤔🤔

Edited October 25, 2022 by Double K

[fore_life]

7 hours ago, Double K said:

But how much is Las Sendas? 🤔🤔🤔

$100 weekdays, $120 weekends as of now

[cbbaron]

11 hours ago, fore_life said:

$100 weekdays, $120 weekends as of now

Honestly if their conditions are good thats not a bad price

[MackDaddy480]

Well, I was up at 12:01 AM last night so I tried to log into the Phoenix City site to book a tee time for Saturday 11/05. First available tee time was 9 AM at Aguila tried to book it, then it disappeared. Next opening was around 10 AM, tried to book it, it disappeared. Refreshed the page, first tee time available was 1:30 PM...

 

Went to try to book at Cave Creek, first available was 9 AM, went to book it and it disappeared. There was a 10 AM, went to book it and it disappeared. Refreshed the page, next opening was 12:45 PM...

 

I am not sure if people have bots setup to book tee times, but it seems a little ridiculous that all the morning tee times at both courses were completely booked by 12:05 AM.

 

Encanto had no openings at all so I would assume they have some sort of event that day. Granted, people could only book tee times at 2/5 of the city courses, but this seems a little crazy.

[AZ_JHWK]

7 hours ago, MackDaddy480 said:

Well, I was up at 12:01 AM last night so I tried to log into the Phoenix City site to book a tee time for Saturday 11/05. First available tee time was 9 AM at Aguila tried to book it, then it disappeared. Next opening was around 10 AM, tried to book it, it disappeared. Refreshed the page, first tee time available was 1:30 PM...

 

Went to try to book at Cave Creek, first available was 9 AM, went to book it and it disappeared. There was a 10 AM, went to book it and it disappeared. Refreshed the page, next opening was 12:45 PM...

 

I am not sure if people have bots setup to book tee times, but it seems a little ridiculous that all the morning tee times at both courses were completely booked by 12:05 AM.

 

Encanto had no openings at all so I would assume they have some sort of event that day. Granted, people could only book tee times at 2/5 of the city courses, but this seems a little crazy.

Same happened to me last week. There were a couple of spots listed around 7:30, but when I clicked on it, it said " no longer available...meaning somebody had gotten to it and was currently booking it. After that it was around 11:00 before anything was listed. As you pointed out, the league had set aside all those times.

[chisag]

14 minutes ago, AZ_JHWK said:

Same happened to me last week. There were a couple of spots listed around 7:30, but when I clicked on it, it said " no longer available...meaning somebody had gotten to it and was currently booking it. After that it was around 11:00 before anything was listed. As you pointed out, the league had set aside all those times.

 

 

... Most here probably know this, but if you are booking for a single or even a twosome you should always go back and look every day. Occasionally I will get a late twilite time and a few days later a 2some spot comes open at an earlier time. I just add the new time and cancel the old one. That said little chance for a 3some and probably never for a 4some. 

[AZ_JHWK]

Aguila today. Less than 2 weeks after the re-open for overseed and it's in fantastic shape. Tip of the cap to the maintenance staff there. They have it all figured out. With a late morning start it was a little slow. They were about 15 minutes behind on the tee sheet and it was close to 5 hours. 

[chisag]

22 minutes ago, AZ_JHWK said:

Aguila today. Less than 2 weeks after the re-open for overseed and it's in fantastic shape. Tip of the cap to the maintenance staff there. They have it all figured out. With a late morning start it was a little slow. They were about 15 minutes behind on the tee sheet and it was close to 5 hours. 

 

 

... Shhhhhhh! Twilite has been creeping to 4:30-4:45 which will be a problem next month if it continues. 

[jatrain]

1 hour ago, AZ_JHWK said:

Aguila today. Less than 2 weeks after the re-open for overseed and it's in fantastic shape. Tip of the cap to the maintenance staff there. They have it all figured out. With a late morning start it was a little slow. They were about 15 minutes behind on the tee sheet and it was close to 5 hours. 

Just missed you by an hour or so.  It was over 5 hours this afternoon.  

[MackDaddy480]

If anyone wants to play GCU this Saturday, I have 2 open spots at 7:14 AM tee time.

 

Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

Edited October 31, 2022 by MackDaddy480

[azgolfer44]

On 10/30/2022 at 7:21 PM, jatrain said:

Just missed you by an hour or so.  It was over 5 hours this afternoon.  

We were last in mens clubs. Started 15 min late and waited on every shot. Longest wait was 17. I think there were 3-4 groups on the tee when we eventually hit.  Almost 5 hours total. Course was great though! 

[puttnforthe8]

11 hours ago, azgolfer44 said:

We were last in mens clubs. Started 15 min late and waited on every shot. Longest wait was 17. I think there were 3-4 groups on the tee when we eventually hit.  Almost 5 hours total. Course was great though! 

Why do they not do anything about this POP?  Seems a common theme.

[Bonneville85308]

Yesterday I played Sun Village, which is a par 3 course in Surprise that I drive by often but had never played. I'm glad I finally gave it a try. They did an excellent wall-to-wall overseed job on this place. Greens still a bit slow coming out of overseed but not ridiculous. I was in 2 bunkers and both had great sand. Layout has a lot of shots in the 80-130 yard range. Longest shot on the course from the back tees was about 145 yards. Lots of opportunities to practice your pitch shots out of thick rye rough. The course is walking-only, par 54 2033 yards, 18 different holes. It runs through a housing community with some backtracking and road crossings between greens and tees, but it's an extremely easy stroll designed for seniors. Pushcart rentals available for a couple bucks, but I just took out my longer clubs and extra junk and carried my bag. Course wasn't busy, no waiting, and I walked the 18 holes in a leisurely manner hitting many extra shots in about an hour and a half. 

 

$22+ tax to walk 18 was a steal given how well kept it is. Gated community coming in off Bell Road, but you just tell the guy at the gate you are there for the golf course. I'd definitely go back. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[azgolfer44]

13 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

Why do they not do anything about this POP?  Seems a common theme.

Could easily get a clock for mens club. Guys are grinding like it’s the Phoenix Open. 

[AzSuperHack76]

15 hours ago, azgolfer44 said:

Could easily get a clock for mens club. Guys are grinding like it’s the Phoenix Open. 

I was behind an Outlaw Tour event at Aguila a few years ago. Gave up after 9 holes, 3 hours, it was absolutely brutal. Dudes plumb bobbing and straddling lines on 2-3 foot putts, it was comical. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by AzSuperHack76

[Bonneville85308]

In my mind, additional issues besides glacial event participants probably leading to the later day pace of play issues at Aguila are (a) tee sheets that are completely full most days with 8 minute intervals; (b) two short par 4's (8 & 17) where long hitters often wait for the green to clear before teeing off; to a lesser extent (c) geezers who should be hitting off the golds, or even reds in some cases, but play the whites.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Bonneville85308

[puttnforthe8]

4 minutes ago, Bonneville85308 said:

In my mind, additional issues besides glacial event participants probably leading to the later day pace of play issues at Aguila are (a) tee sheets that are completely full most days with 8 minute intervals; (b) two short par 4's (8 & 17) where long hitters often wait for the green to clear before teeing off; to a lesser extent (c) geezers who should be hitting off the golds but play the whites.

All valid - but if there are no consequences, then it will continue.

 

Personally, I believe my idea would solve POP issues.  It is quite simple:

 

1. I think all players should have a unique golf id - GHIN or other (like driver license and id) - but this makes it more complex.  So start at #2
2. All tee times must be booked online. Where the player details are loaded.
3. Post completion of a round, the final POP is recorded for the players. ***
4. Any players exceeding the POP will be subject to only being allowed to play at certain times of the day based on table:

 

 

***Obviously, if a group is stuck behind slow group/s they are not penalized as long as they maintained the POP

 

This would make it so those that maintain POP are rewarded with choice of tee times.

 

And yes - we all have buddies that are molasses.  And yes, I get penalized if he plays like that.  Hence the onus is on the group to ensure he plays to the proper POP or get dropped.

 

There are a few corner cases to consider - but this would solve a lot of issues.  And of course, the software needs to have it built in.  

 

As I said in the first line - there are zero consequences.  No one does anything about it.  So you have to shift the paradigm and REWARD the players that keep POP.  Those that can't are weeded out or stuck with late tee times that affect a much smaller population.

 

 

 

[vallygolf]

1 hour ago, puttnforthe8 said:

All valid - but if there are no consequences, then it will continue.

 

Personally, I believe my idea would solve POP issues.  It is quite simple:

 

1. I think all players should have a unique golf id - GHIN or other (like driver license and id) - but this makes it more complex.  So start at #2
2. All tee times must be booked online. Where the player details are loaded.
3. Post completion of a round, the final POP is recorded for the players. ***
4. Any players exceeding the POP will be subject to only being allowed to play at certain times of the day based on table:

 

 

***Obviously, if a group is stuck behind slow group/s they are not penalized as long as they maintained the POP

 

This would make it so those that maintain POP are rewarded with choice of tee times.

 

And yes - we all have buddies that are molasses.  And yes, I get penalized if he plays like that.  Hence the onus is on the group to ensure he plays to the proper POP or get dropped.

 

There are a few corner cases to consider - but this would solve a lot of issues.  And of course, the software needs to have it built in.  

 

As I said in the first line - there are zero consequences.  No one does anything about it.  So you have to shift the paradigm and REWARD the players that keep POP.  Those that can't are weeded out or stuck with late tee times that affect a much smaller population.

 

 

 

This is a great idea that courses have been hesitant to implement because they were fearful of driving away any paying customer during a bit of a golf slowdown in years past.  NOW is the perfect time to implement such a system when the demand is much higher than the supply.  Make it part of the game and even in a downturn it can be a staple and not drive players away.

[chisag]

3 hours ago, puttnforthe8 said:

1.  
2. All tee times must be booked online. Where the player details are loaded.
3. Post completion of a round, the final POP is recorded for the players. ***
4. Any players exceeding the POP will be subject to only being allowed to play at certain times of the day based on table:

 

 

 

... OK slooooow your roll. I would not appreciate having slow players piled up at twilite. I play 4 to 5 times a week at Aguila and usually have one of the first 2 twilite times. The LAST thing I need is slow players jamming up the course when the first 3 twilite times should be fast players. In LA back in the late 90's if you had the first twilite time, you had to play at under 4 hours at twilite or you lost your ability to book twilite times. I am with you til noon, but twilite starts at 1pm right now and we barely finish if we don't have one of the first 3 times. And to be fair most twilite golfers play fast or at least a decent POP. No reason we should be penalized when we play fast. 

[puttnforthe8]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

 

... OK slooooow your roll. I would not appreciate having slow players piled up at twilite. I play 4 to 5 times a week at Aguila and usually have one of the first 2 twilite times. The LAST thing I need is slow players jamming up the course when the first 3 twilite times should be fast players. In LA back in the late 90's if you had the first twilite time, you had to play at under 4 hours at twilite or you lost your ability to book twilite times. I am with you til noon, but twilite starts at 1pm right now and we barely finish if we don't have one of the first 3 times. And to be fair most twilite golfers play fast or at least a decent POP. No reason we should be penalized when we play fast. 

 

Agreed...there are some simple adjustments that could address these. I did say there are corner cases.  I have noted a number of them.