Hideki Matsuyama - Projections

[JungleJimbo]

14 minutes ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

 

They do compare fairly well, but Matsuyama is slightly ahead of Scott's pace. Comparable strikers of the ball for sure. Matsuyama's putting, streaky as it is, is much better than Scott's when it's on. I don't that Scott's putting was ever on. Matsuyama hasn't ever had to go head to head with Tiger at full strength, but that's the world we live in. Most of Scott's top years were past Peak Tiger, so he really has no excuse. We might be watching peak Matsuyama right now. I think the the desire to be the best Asian golfer ever (aside from Tiger) is a bigger motivation than most people can understand.

Who might be on that shortlist for "best Asian golfer ever"?

Would you consider Australians, Kiwis and Fijian = Asians, for this question? (would significantly widen the scope of the question of "best ever"?)

 

And encompassing both male & female Asian pro golfers? 🙂 

Edited January 19, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[MattyO1984]

37 minutes ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

 

They do compare fairly well, but Matsuyama is slightly ahead of Scott's pace. Comparable strikers of the ball for sure. Matsuyama's putting, streaky as it is, is much better than Scott's when it's on. I don't that Scott's putting was ever on. Matsuyama hasn't ever had to go head to head with Tiger at full strength, but that's the world we live in. Most of Scott's top years were past Peak Tiger, so he really has no excuse. We might be watching peak Matsuyama right now. I think the the desire to be the best Asian golfer ever (aside from Tiger) is a bigger motivation than most people can understand.

 

I think relatively speaking, they are both poor putters - the odd good week from Matsuyama is all that we will see, he has had good weeks before and then disappeared. Scott is around the same with putting these days. Although when you say that Scott’s putting has never been on, look back to 2004 - Scott finished 2nd in SG Putting. He used to be able to roll his rock quite well. Still he is good enough to pick up another couple of wins before he is done I reckon. 

[Christen_The_Sloop]

27 minutes ago, JungleJimbo said:

Who might be on that shortlist for "best Asian golfer ever"?

Would you consider Australians, Kiwis and Fijian = Asians, for this question? (would significantly widen the scope of the question of "best ever"?)

 

And encompassing both male & female Asian pro golfers? 🙂 

I think everyone is going to have a different definition. Asian Born? Matsuyama Asian Heritage? Between Morikawa and Matsuyama and there is a lot of time to see how it shakes out.

 

Watch out for this guy: https://www.wagr.com/playerprofile/keita-nakajima-13318 His Amateur record is slightly more outstanding that Matsuyama's. One of my student's who recently turned pro played with him in a tournament as well as Takumi Kanaya. It's a pretty big jump from Japan to the US though. We all know what happened to Ishikawa Ryo. He still cashes a big check from Callaway, but I can't remember him finishing well in a big event.

[JungleJimbo]

2 minutes ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

I think everyone is going to have a different definition. Asian Born? Matsuyama Asian Heritage? Between Morikawa and Matsuyama and there is a lot of time to see how it shakes out.

 

Watch out for this guy: https://www.wagr.com/playerprofile/keita-nakajima-13318 His Amateur record is slightly more outstanding that Matsuyama's. One of my student's who recently turned pro played with him in a tournament as well as Takumi Kanaya. It's a pretty big jump from Japan to the US though. We all know what happened to Ishikawa Ryo. He still cashes a big check from Callaway, but I can't remember him finishing well in a big event.

Thanks for humouring/ responding to my question! 

I know there’s unlikely to be a consensus... makes for an interesting debate! (eg if broadened to include Asian Heritage... then we might even include Schaufelle in the conversation, in a few years!)

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[Ferguson]

Probably the next Tiger.  

[Hawkeye77]

7 hours ago, CasualLie said:

 

Oh... Now that's an interesting bet.  Not sure who I would take.  Leaning towards Hideki, but let's see if Rory gets a win before the Masters.

Mostly poking Paddy, lol, but I want to see Rory get it together. 

[Paddy_2_Iron]

2 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

I think relatively speaking, they are both poor putters - the odd good week from Matsuyama is all that we will see, he has had good weeks before and then disappeared. Scott is around the same with putting these days. Although when you say that Scott’s putting has never been on, look back to 2004 - Scott finished 2nd in SG Putting. He used to be able to roll his rock quite well. Still he is good enough to pick up another couple of wins before he is done I reckon. 

 

I agree

 

That's why I mentioned if he can maintain this for a a few months (I believe this is unrealistic but still slightly probable) he has a chance to pick off a win or 2.  Again best case.  After that who knows.....     Anyone's guess.  

[HMHS]

Interesting that you guy mentioned Adam Scott and Hideki -- Adam took Hideki "under his mentorship" as a "rook" during Hideki's first year in the President's Cup... Hideki considers Jason Day his brother - eg they're quite close ---  (I mention JDay as you guys had posted the Zozo 2019 preview video that also had Tiger and Rory, of course)...  Actually those guys - JDay, Tiger, Hideki are quite close in general... (JDay's and Tigers are well documented) , Hideki's and JDay's and Tiger and Hideki's aren't as much... but here's some more for your viewing pleasure on the Adam Scott conversation  ☺︎  

 

EDIT/Addendum:  Yes, like someone said, I think Hideki's gunning for that "Winningest Asian Golfer in the PGA" and based on what he said himself -- winning the Masters freed up a lot of the pressure for him, so now he's playing "freer" and has 2 additional wins since then... Finally, if my memory serves me right - Hideki was actually going back-to-back-to-back in Waste Mgmt when he had to withdraw due to the wrist injury -- I'm 100% sure he withdrew due to a wrist injury in the WM Phoenix Open, and I'm 80% positive he was actually going for a three-peat when he had to withdraw (I was watching it and was gutted to hear it then LOL - that and the 2017 PGA Championship was "a downer" but ever since April has been fantastic for me as a fan ☺︎ )

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by HMHS

[Soloman1]

Well, when Tiger first came on tour, he said in interviews that he considered himself to be Thai, so there goes the best Asian golfer.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

23 hours ago, Supermilo said:

Interesting that you guy mentioned Adam Scott and Hideki -- Adam took Hideki "under his mentorship" as a "rook" during Hideki's first year in the President's Cup... Hideki considers Jason Day his brother - eg they're quite close ---  (I mention JDay as you guys had posted the Zozo 2019 preview video that also had Tiger and Rory, of course)...  Actually those guys - JDay, Tiger, Hideki are quite close in general... (JDay's and Tigers are well documented) , Hideki's and JDay's and Tiger and Hideki's aren't as much... but here's some more for your viewing pleasure on the Adam Scott conversation  ☺︎  

 

EDIT/Addendum:  Yes, like someone said, I think Hideki's gunning for that "Winningest Asian Golfer in the PGA" and based on what he said himself -- winning the Masters freed up a lot of the pressure for him, so now he's playing "freer" and has 2 additional wins since then... Finally, if my memory serves me right - Hideki was actually going back-to-back-to-back in Waste Mgmt when he had to withdraw due to the wrist injury -- I'm 100% sure he withdrew due to a wrist injury in the WM Phoenix Open, and I'm 80% positive he was actually going for a three-peat when he had to withdraw (I was watching it and was gutted to hear it then LOL - that and the 2017 PGA Championship was "a downer" but ever since April has been fantastic for me as a fan ☺︎ )

 

 

 

 That was a good watch. Adam Scott comes across REALLY well in that, like I mean a media pro. He knows the interview is about Hideki, and does not try to make it about himself at all. Media pro!

 

HIdeki also comes across well. Very focussed, of course. I'd like to see him pick up another major soon.

[Shilgy]

On 1/18/2022 at 9:31 AM, Paddy_2_Iron said:

1 in FEDEX cup rankings

19 OWGR

3 wins in the last 9 months

29 years old, with 8 wins 1 a major.  

 

Where can this Japanese Rockstar end up?  Do you think 2 majors 15 wins is possible?  He had that massive lull between 17 and 20.  

 

Short term I can see him picking off another win if his putting can stay hot, but I am not sure I see much sustainability in his game.  He has game, so if the stars align he could win another major, but I just don't see it.  If he continues to play lesser tourney's and swallow his pride he could pick up some cheapies and roll his total much higher.  

 

If he continues to play a lot of lesser events I think he can get to 15 wins.  I am struggling giving him another major, I don't see it.  Could it happen sure, I just am not sure if that can happen again for him.  

 

Final projection for his career.  

 

15 wins (WGC possibly)

1 major 

Geez, three wins in 9 months….including the Masters…. and some seem to think he “maybe” has the game to win a “lesser event” lol? WTF?

[grm24]

On 1/18/2022 at 11:31 AM, Paddy_2_Iron said:

Final projection for his career.  

 

15 wins (WGC possibly)

1 major 

Matsuyama has already won two WGC events. So a big swing and a miss. He already has 16 career wins. Another swing and a miss. 

[Paddy_2_Iron]

9 hours ago, grm24 said:

Matsuyama has already won two WGC events. So a big swing and a miss. He already has 16 career wins. Another swing and a miss. 

 

It actually went over your head.   This what he will continue to do.  Not what he has already accomplished.  

 

Besides he is a butcher with the putter.  Average ~175 in putting SG last 3 years including this one currently in progress.  15 wins is right on par were he will finish on the PGA tour.   We are talking PGA wins, not lesser tours.....     20 wins is a huge bench mark for any professional golfer ON THE PGA, arguably one of the best bench marks to measure the quality of a golfers career. 

 

Did you just start watching golf?

Edited January 21, 2022 by Paddy_2_Iron

[grm24]

10 hours ago, Paddy_2_Iron said:

Did you just start watching golf?

Based on your posts here you've never watched golf. Your fiction writing is hilarious.

[iBanesto]

On 1/20/2022 at 5:54 AM, Supermilo said:

Interesting that you guy mentioned Adam Scott and Hideki -- Adam took Hideki "under his mentorship" as a "rook" during Hideki's first year in the President's Cup... Hideki considers Jason Day his brother - eg they're quite close ---  (I mention JDay as you guys had posted the Zozo 2019 preview video that also had Tiger and Rory, of course)...  Actually those guys - JDay, Tiger, Hideki are quite close in general... (JDay's and Tigers are well documented) , Hideki's and JDay's and Tiger and Hideki's aren't as much... but here's some more for your viewing pleasure on the Adam Scott conversation  ☺︎  

 

EDIT/Addendum:  Yes, like someone said, I think Hideki's gunning for that "Winningest Asian Golfer in the PGA" and based on what he said himself -- winning the Masters freed up a lot of the pressure for him, so now he's playing "freer" and has 2 additional wins since then... Finally, if my memory serves me right - Hideki was actually going back-to-back-to-back in Waste Mgmt when he had to withdraw due to the wrist injury -- I'm 100% sure he withdrew due to a wrist injury in the WM Phoenix Open, and I'm 80% positive he was actually going for a three-peat when he had to withdraw (I was watching it and was gutted to hear it then LOL - that and the 2017 PGA Championship was "a downer" but ever since April has been fantastic for me as a fan ☺︎ )

 

 

 

 

Nice Rolex on Matsuyma's wrist there.

 

IMO Matsuyama is already the best Asian (Born in Asia and of Asian descent) male golfer ever.

[Shilgy]

On 1/21/2022 at 6:03 AM, Paddy_2_Iron said:

 

It actually went over your head.   This what he will continue to do.  Not what he has already accomplished.  

 

Besides he is a butcher with the putter.  Average ~175 in putting SG last 3 years including this one currently in progress.  15 wins is right on par were he will finish on the PGA tour.   We are talking PGA wins, not lesser tours.....     20 wins is a huge bench mark for any professional golfer ON THE PGA, arguably one of the best bench marks to measure the quality of a golfers career. 

 

Did you just start watching golf?

So a butcher with the putter will win a TOTAL of what? 23 wins and two majors? Since you claim that is what MORE you are projecting.

Laughable.

[Paddy_2_Iron]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

So a butcher with the putter will win a TOTAL of what? 23 wins and two majors? Since you claim that is what MORE you are projecting.

Laughable.

 

First of all he is a butcher with the putter,  I said if he can stay hot with it(luke warm) he might win another tourney soon...   

 

However I never said he would win 15 more, 15 total.  AND I stated 1 major, which is his current Masters victory.  I don't believe he will win another major.  Top 10's absolutely, closing the deal, absolutely not.  

 

I tossed in a (WGC) in parentheses indicating one of this 7 more victories would be a high quality win, which I think he will get one or two high quality wins before he becomes obsolete from Tour.  

 

Truth be told I think 15 is laughable after reassessing (10-12 max).  But what's done is done....  

Edited January 23, 2022 by Paddy_2_Iron

[Shilgy]

31 minutes ago, Paddy_2_Iron said:

 

First of all he is a butcher with the putter,  I said if he can stay hot with it(luke warm) he might win another tourney soon...   

 

However I never said he would win 15 more, 15 total.  AND I stated 1 major, which is his current Masters victory.  I don't believe he will win another major.  Top 10's absolutely, closing the deal, absolutely not.  

 

I tossed in a (WGC) in parentheses indicating one of this 7 more victories would be a high quality win, which I think he will get one or two high quality wins before he becomes obsolete from Tour.  

 

Truth be told I think 15 is laughable after reassessing (10-12 max).  But what's done is done....  

Clearly he is not always a butcher ……hence the performance last week.  Which is why the rankings can be meaningless as any of these guys are good enough to have a hot week…even with the weakest part of their game.

[iBanesto]

1 hour ago, Paddy_2_Iron said:

 

First of all he is a butcher with the putter,  I said if he can stay hot with it(luke warm) he might win another tourney soon...   

 

However I never said he would win 15 more, 15 total.  AND I stated 1 major, which is his current Masters victory.  I don't believe he will win another major.  Top 10's absolutely, closing the deal, absolutely not.  

 

I tossed in a (WGC) in parentheses indicating one of this 7 more victories would be a high quality win, which I think he will get one or two high quality wins before he becomes obsolete from Tour.  

 

Truth be told I think 15 is laughable after reassessing (10-12 max).  But what's done is done....  

 

I can see Matsuyama finish his career with 15 PGA Tour wins, which is a very commendable achievement.

 

He is only 29 and his life has settled down now with a young family. So I can definitely see another major win.

 

Matsuyama's major record is very respectable and better than players like JT, DeChambeau and Cantlay. They are all around the same age.

 

You never know Matsuyama may want to return back to Japan in his late 30's.

[BombinJim]

On 1/18/2022 at 1:43 PM, Blonde Line Lizard said:

As long as he does better than Fowler.

Already has!