distance debate

[So_Cal]

29 minutes ago, golfer07840 said:

 

Once again, you guys keep going back to the ole days of Yore to make a point. 

 

Perhaps we should roll back technology in all aspects of life. 

 

I should recommend to my boss that we dump all the computers and infrastructure to make our jobs easier and "roll back" to typewriters. 

 

 

100%.  MLB should adopt aluminum bats and NBA should allow trampoline shoes. People who want the playing field and skill to match are crazy. 

[golfer07840]

48 minutes ago, smashdn said:

@golfer07840

Regardless of when the golfer played, you don't think a random (no offense to this kid) 15 year old doing something that would be questionable as to whether it would be attempted by arguably the greatest golfer of that generation shouldn't raise some eyebrows?

 

1st off. This is where you guys lose me. Snead isn't part of this generation. This is like comparing Art Donovan, who was a defensive tackle (a very good one btw) on the '58 Colts to Aaron Donald. They aren't from the same generation. 

 

So no, it shouldn't raise any eyebrows. 

 

2nd, How do you know this 15 yr old isn't some 6'2 long armed kid who just has length built into him? How do you know he isn't a Wide Receiver on his HS Football team and is on a weight lifting program, making him strong? 

 

How do we know it wasn't downhill and downwind? So many factors go into this. 

 

And for those of you who say "eh, 267 Is easy! It's the equipment!" 

 

Then how come a vast majority of players can't do it? 

 

"Well, this is about the elite players" ok, so what if this kid is a legit, up and coming elite player? Why do we need to punish him? Because some architect who designed the course 75 years ago is going to have his feelings hurt and ego bruised from the grave? 

 

 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, golfer07840 said:

Because... Jack says so...

Well, if you watched his presser at the 150th Open celebration Jack seems to soften his stance on the golf ball. Jack stated that he was wondering about the course holding up to modern players in 1972, yet here we are in 2022. Jack went on to say if they shoot low scores "SO WHAT!".....Gary player echoed the same sentiments. One of them said that in the end there's a winner, a second place, third place etc... and the low score wins......I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist. 

[golfer07840]

19 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Well, if you watched his presser at the 150th Open celebration Jack seems to soften his stance on the golf ball. Jack stated that he was wondering about the course holding up to modern players in 1972, yet here we are in 2022. Jack went on to say if they shoot low scores "SO WHAT!".....Gary player echoed the same sentiments. One of them said that in the end there's a winner, a second place, third place etc... and the low score wins......I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist. 

Probably because Jack now knows, there will be no rollback. Only strict limits put into place via testing. 

 

 

[So_Cal]

25 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Well, if you watched his presser at the 150th Open celebration Jack seems to soften his stance on the golf ball. Jack stated that he was wondering about the course holding up to modern players in 1972, yet here we are in 2022. Jack went on to say if they shoot low scores "SO WHAT!".....Gary player echoed the same sentiments. One of them said that in the end there's a winner, a second place, third place etc... and the low score wins......I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist. 

It never was about the scores.  Come on Titleist we’ve been saying that for 140 pages ☺️☺️☺️

[buckeyefl]

1 hour ago, golfer07840 said:

1st off. This is where you guys lose me. Snead isn't part of this generation. This is like comparing Art Donovan, who was a defensive tackle (a very good one btw) on the '58 Colts to Aaron Donald. They aren't from the same generation. 

 

So no, it shouldn't raise any eyebrows. 

 

2nd, How do you know this 15 yr old isn't some 6'2 long armed kid who just has length built into him? How do you know he isn't a Wide Receiver on his HS Football team and is on a weight lifting program, making him strong? 

 

How do we know it wasn't downhill and downwind? So many factors go into this. 

 

And for those of you who say "eh, 267 Is easy! It's the equipment!" 

 

Then how come a vast majority of players can't do it? 

 

"Well, this is about the elite players" ok, so what if this kid is a legit, up and coming elite player? Why do we need to punish him? Because some architect who designed the course 75 years ago is going to have his feelings hurt and ego bruised from the grave? 

 

 

 

The question  remain why in the world with all of this "star wars" tech, why are handicaps stagnant?

 

Everytime someone like our California friends lies about distance the question remains, "what did you/he/she shoot?" 

 

The Rollbackers live in a fantasy world.

 

Oh and just to stir things up, I played in a Father/Daughter scramble with my daughter Saturday and I was pin high off the tee on three holes out of nine. Two of those were chopped off driver swings listed at 305 yards. We had a horrible time because she said that was no fun.🙃 Oh and feel free to ask how  one of our fellow scramblers hit a hybrid to the front of two of those greens. Context always matters.

[buckeyefl]

9 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

It never was about the scores.  Come on Titleist we’ve been saying that for 140 pages ☺️☺️☺️

Unless you are playing in Long Drives contests, its always about the score.

[smashdn]

1 hour ago, golfer07840 said:

1st off. This is where you guys lose me. Snead isn't part of this generation. This is like comparing Art Donovan, who was a defensive tackle (a very good one btw) on the '58 Colts to Aaron Donald. They aren't from the same generation. 

 

So no, it shouldn't raise any eyebrows. 

 

2nd, How do you know this 15 yr old isn't some 6'2 long armed kid who just has length built into him? How do you know he isn't a Wide Receiver on his HS Football team and is on a weight lifting program, making him strong? 

 

How do we know it wasn't downhill and downwind? So many factors go into this. 

 

And for those of you who say "eh, 267 Is easy! It's the equipment!" 

 

Then how come a vast majority of players can't do it? 

 

"Well, this is about the elite players" ok, so what if this kid is a legit, up and coming elite player? Why do we need to punish him? Because some architect who designed the course 75 years ago is going to have his feelings hurt and ego bruised from the grave? 

 

 

 

I wouldn't call it punishing.  When a great college player makes his way to the minor leagues (or cape cod during college), I doubt he looks at using a wooden bat as punishment.

 

This is just about normalizing the change.  Right now it is a huge change.  In 1980 there was no change at all.

 

Change is hard to swallow.  Especially a significant change.  Technology crept to this point incrementally. It just doesn't make sense to incrementally step it backwards from an implementation standpoint.

[So_Cal]

3 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

Unless you are playing in Long Drives contests, its always about the score.

Agree to disagree.  Pitch and putt is boring.  I got to a plus handicap last year and I play once a week with little practice.  Modern equipment reduces the need for skill to a large extent. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by So_Cal
Spelling

[buckeyefl]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

100%.  MLB should adopt aluminum bats and NBA should allow trampoline shoes. People who want the playing field and skill to match are crazy. 

Aren't all ball fields exactly the same measurement aside from some being somewhat long to the walls?? Asking for a friend.

[buckeyefl]

Just now, So_Cal said:

Agree to disagree.  Pitch and putt is boring.  

 

Pitch and putts are fun but we are talking about real golf courses. Only you with your prodigious length claims that all courses are pitch and putt and then continue to use the equipment you want banned. You just can't make it up.

[So_Cal]

1 minute ago, buckeyefl said:

 

Pitch and putts are fun but we are talking about real golf courses. Only you with your prodigious length claims that all courses are pitch and putt and then continue to use the equipment you want banned. You just can't make it up.

I don’t want the equipment banned.  That’s what you said.  I want to see a proper balance attack and defence at the very top level of golf.  That’s it. 

[buckeyefl]

1 minute ago, So_Cal said:

I don’t want the equipment banned.  That’s what you said.  I want to see a proper balance attack and defence at the very top level of golf.  That’s it. 

Define proper

 

Define balance

 

Do you not watch golf on TV? I don't see anyone who looks like they are just cruising along dominating every course. Even the GOATs of any generation havent done that which is why the game appeals to so many.

[Titleist99]

28 minutes ago, golfer07840 said:

Probably because Jack now knows, there will be no rollback. Only strict limits put into place via testing. 

 

 

Yep, He's been whining since 1972.......He'll just have to build courses with built in defense.

[smashdn]

Whether Snead was not of this generation or not, he was 5'11" professional golfer known as one of the longest drivers of the golf ball of his era.  In 1990 he was still respectably long with similar equipment. (Meaning in his prime he compared favorably to golfers in 1990 not that Snead was playing in 1990 before anyone louses that up).

[Double Mocha Man]

8 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Yep, He's been whining since 1972.......He'll just have to build courses with built in defense.

 

Just put an automated "Gotcha" boom box on every tee and be done with it... that'll shorten the pro's length with duck hooks, pop ups and topped shots.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Double Mocha Man

[Double Mocha Man]

28 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

Oh and just to stir things up, I played in a Father/Daughter scramble with my daughter Saturday and I was pin high off the tee on three holes out of nine. Two of those were chopped off driver swings listed at 305 yards. We had a horrible time because she said that was no fun.🙃 Oh and feel free to ask how  one of our fellow scramblers hit a hybrid to the front of two of those greens. Context always matters.

 

Executive Par 3 course?  😁

[Titleist99]

37 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

It never was about the scores.  Come on Titleist we’ve been saying that for 140 pages ☺️☺️☺️

Maybe we should make it about score. The rest is cosmetics.......

[TLUBulldogGolf]

21 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

 

The question  remain why in the world with all of this "star wars" tech, why are handicaps stagnant?

 

Everytime someone like our California friends lies about distance the question remains, "what did you/he/she shoot?" 

 

The Rollbackers live in a fantasy world.

 

Oh and just to stir things up, I played in a Father/Daughter scramble with my daughter Saturday and I was pin high off the tee on three holes out of nine. Two of those were chopped off driver swings listed at 305 yards. We had a horrible time because she said that was no fun.🙃 Oh and feel free to ask how  one of our fellow scramblers hit a hybrid to the front of two of those greens. Context always matters.

 

Golf is still hard, despite exaggerations to the contrary. 

 

I'm forced to assume you are also lying. No one outside the tour actually hits it 300.

[buckeyefl]

4 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

Golf is still hard, despite exaggerations to the contrary. 

 

I'm forced to assume you are also lying. No one outside the tour actually hits it 300.

Lol who in the world said that.

 

Here's what I was getting at with the driving three greens.

 

Many courses are measured incorrectly and people hit a shot and think thats how far they actually hit it. The holes I mentioned were listed at 310-310-325 however they are not that long. The course was built in the 20's and if you laser the holes ( all three are basically straight with varying terrain) they aren't as long as they say. 

 

The second thing was conditions, dry and firm so the ball could run quite a bit. My daughter hit some good shots which will keep her coming back because the roll out helped her so we were both happy.

 

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

3 hours ago, smashdn said:

It's architecture no different than Monticello or Notre Dame.  Appreciated and protected.  Worshipped is a bit of a stretch.

 

Donald Ross isn't designing new courses.  We better take care of the ones that are out there if we value them.

I don't find any of that to be all that important.  I have no bucket list.  I quit revering golf courses a long, long time ago.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

24 minutes ago, buckeyefl said:

Lol who in the world said that.

 

Here's what I was getting at with the driving three greens.

 

Many courses are measured incorrectly and people hit a shot and think thats how far they actually hit it. The holes I mentioned were listed at 310-310-325 however they are not that long. The course was built in the 20's and if you laser the holes ( all three are basically straight with varying terrain) they aren't as long as they say. 

 

The second thing was conditions, dry and firm so the ball could run quite a bit. My daughter hit some good shots which will keep her coming back because the roll out helped her so we were both happy.

 

 

 

 

 

May be the case at times, maybe they can legit carry it 280+. I was poking fun at the multi-page aside because someone you don't agree with said they hit it a distance you and several others deemed exaggerated without ever playing with them or seeing them hit a golf ball. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf

[buckeyefl]

12 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

So after ranting about context you left out quite a bit, got it. And I was poking fun at the multi-page aside because someone you don't agree with said they hit it a distance you and several others deemed exaggerated without ever playing with them or seeing them hit a golf ball. 

I left it out on purpose for the reason you noted. Come on man I thought you of all people would see the connection.

 

You must have missed where SoCal admitted he left massive amounts of context out after posting several times about his "false" driving distance on certain holes in trying to back up his opinion. I call him about about lies over his "pitch and putt" on the PGA tour mantra which is utter bs to anyone watching or looking at stats.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

Agree to disagree.  Pitch and putt is boring.  I got to a plus handicap last year and I play once a week with little practice.  Modern equipment reduces the need for skill to a large extent. 

Wow! So, you can go Carl's Super Store and buy yourself a golf game......LOL!  REALLY!?!

[TLUBulldogGolf]

1 hour ago, buckeyefl said:

I left it out on purpose for the reason you noted. Come on man I thought you of all people would see the connection.

 

You must have missed where SoCal admitted he left massive amounts of context out after posting several times about his "false" driving distance on certain holes in trying to back up his opinion. I call him about about lies over his "pitch and putt" on the PGA tour mantra which is utter bs to anyone watching or looking at stats.

I got it eventually, problem is when tour players (especially the longer hitters) get those favorable conditions they aren’t hitting it 300, but more like 350+.

[gvogel]

3 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Well, if you watched his presser at the 150th Open celebration Jack seems to soften his stance on the golf ball. Jack stated that he was wondering about the course holding up to modern players in 1972, yet here we are in 2022. Jack went on to say if they shoot low scores "SO WHAT!".....Gary player echoed the same sentiments. One of them said that in the end there's a winner, a second place, third place etc... and the low score wins......I'm paraphrasing but you get the gist. 

My take on that is that Jack, who is about to get the keys of the city, or St Andrews citizenship (only the third Yank after Ben Franklin and Bobby Jones), doesn't want to create any controversy this week.

 

He beat the drum on the ball for long enough; now that Martin Slumbers and Mike Whan are on board with some sort of a roll back, Jack can afford to be non-committal about equipment.

[So_Cal]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Wow! So, you can go Carl's Super Store and buy yourself a golf game......LOL!  REALLY!?!

Modern equipment took me to a plus handicap briefly last year.  I play about three times a month and hit a small bucket every couple weeks.  So yeah that big driver and Pro V made the game a lot easier. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by So_Cal
Spelling

[So_Cal]

13 minutes ago, gvogel said:

My take on that is that Jack, who is about to get the keys of the city, or St Andrews citizenship (only the third Yank after Ben Franklin and Bobby Jones), doesn't want to create any controversy this week.

 

He beat the drum on the ball for long enough; now that Martin Slumbers and Mike Whan are on board with some sort of a roll back, Jack can afford to be non-committal about equipment.

Jack and Tiger both know the relationship between distance and golf courses for 0.1% of golfers is off kilter.  33 majors gives you some credibility.  

[bekgolf]

56 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Modern equipment took me to a plus handicap briefly last year.  I play about three times a month and hit a small bucket every couple weeks.  So yeah that big driver and Pro V made the game a lot easier. 

 

Are you a current or former pro athlete?

 

You posses a natural talent most of us only dream of.

[clevited]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

Modern equipment took me to a plus handicap briefly last year.  I play about three times a month and hit a small bucket every couple weeks.  So yeah that big driver and Pro V made the game a lot easier. 

 

You do realize this kind of comment just kills any credibility you might have had.  You know the game of golf is incredibly hard and if you find it so easy you are either extremely talented and naive to reality, play a wide open goat track that even I could shoot under par at, or you are being dishonest. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by clevited