Moving from Blades to P970's. Lazy?

[ob1soccer]

the P790 are definitely more forgiving then this thread is giving them credit for. When u hit them off the sweet spot they go further and straighter then other irons. 

[bladehunter]

15 hours ago, sdemo said:

Bottom line: get fit outdoors, pick whatever combination produces the best, most consistent results for YOU, and immediately stop thinking about it and hit the range.

 

I'm currently playing to a +3 - so safe to say that I hit the ball fairly well - and I play a set of J15 CBs. I've had the same irons since 2015, and my level of trust and consistency with these irons absolutely contributes to my scoring. I'm at the point that I've lost a couple grooves on my PW, 9 iron and 8 iron, and I'm dreading buying new irons and having to figure out standard yardages, gaps, avg. misses, etc. all over again - it will cost me strokes, and it costs everybody in this thread strokes every single time they change.

 

At my level, there's no reason to play blades. At the pro level, there's very little reason to play blades - most of the top players aren't. If you're not at either of these levels, there's no reason to consider blades aside from vanity. I don't know why anybody would play blades when they're actively hurting most everybody's score, since *checks notes* golf is about hitting the fewest shots possible. 

 

Don't give in to the WRX "think tank" or "golf purist" nonsense. Buy what works best for you, and forget what anybody thinks about what's in your bag - the scorecard will do the talking.

But to be honest.  Your irons measured in a neural  way , are likely to be identical , or less forgiving even than some irons that are labeled as a “ blade”.   Example.  Adam’s mb2 , callaway MB1 or razr MB.     These posts that lump all irons with no cutout in the back as same , and then take an iron like yours with a small cavity and weight down low , and pit them as opposites.   When in reality it’s not the case at all. Reality is that you could absolutely plan an iron with no cutout just as well. Might even find a better fit.  But that doesn’t mean you need to.  What you have , might be the best fit on earth.  But you wouldn’t know unless you hit some options for a length of time and saw for yourself.  
 

this is what you see on tour.  Plenty of irons with no cutout on back being played.  Plenty with a cavity being played.  All results of trial and error. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by bladehunter

[Typhoon1992]

Hmmm… like someone said already, if he’s hitting a lot of longer irons,4-7, than yes it will help.  How much it will help, who knows.  If it’s a case where you are missing greens by 20 yards and these cut it to 15 yards then probably not.  If your miss is just off the green and these give  you more GIR then probably yes.

You’ll make the same contact but the quality of your strike will determine if they help.

I always tell my students amd peope I fit to play the most forgiving club you can stand looking at.  Have fun out there… life sucks enough already.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Typhoon1992

[Typhoon1992]

15 hours ago, sdemo said:

 

 

there's no reason to consider blades aside from vanity. 

 

 

Very well said.

[Luds]

I don't think scores will improve. Forgiveness is a tricky word.  Sometimes people confuse "forgiveness" with "consistency".... If you are a poor ball-striker (higher handicap), then game improvement/distance irons will be both consistent and forgiving... Because these players typically strike the ball all over the face, distances are not as diminished in comparison to a blade/players iron.

 

If you are a good ball striker (low handicap), the game improvement irons, while they may be more forgiving, are not always consistent.  Irons like the 790's have so much tech (tungsten/foam/etc), that your ball speeds will be much higher and making distance control much more difficult.  The CG is also strategically placed and you'll soon realize how much spin is reduced (further exacerbating the distance issue).  You might catch a ball slightly high on the face (but still centered) and watch the ball just fly...

 

As a better player, you might be more frustrated by the inconsistent results on relatively centered strikes on a P790 than any miss-hit on a players iron.

 

TLDR...

1. players irons - are great for low handicapers because, when hit close to center, it will go the correct (expected) yardage

2. Game improvement/distance irons - while forgiving on miss-hits, centered strikes may result in inconsistent (further?) distances 

 

 

[bladehunter]

32 minutes ago, Typhoon1992 said:

Very well said.

Are we calling 7 of the current top 15 in the world golf rankings -  vain ?   Serious question.  We read claims that “ pros don’t even play them “ but that’s never been a true statement.   

[MelloYello]

I've gone back to blades in 7-Pw for the last month or so and I'm really enjoying it. I was looking to hit more controlled / touch shots inside 150-yards.

 

Controlling the trajectory of a blade just seems a lot easier and more instinctual. It also seems to promote a more controlled swing. I might have to take an extra club versus pounding a CB but maybe I just like to play that way?

 

AFAIK, that's actually how the best ball-strikers play the game. If some want to describe that as "vanity," that's their business, although it sounds painfully out of touch. 

 

If you ask me, controlled is actually the way we should all be hitting our shorter irons! 🙂

Edited March 23, 2022 by MelloYello

[LWelchGolf]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:09 AM, Tgolfer66 said:

The 790’s come with dg105’s. Has anyone put something heavier in them? X100/px6.5 or modus 125x? 

I tested the P790s with KBS C Taper 130x and the KBS Tour 130x, love the forgiveness level, just had to weaken the lofts 1-2 degrees. 

[ZacR88]

Going to say no for this one. 

 

I play some older 710MB's and have for the last 6 years. My buddy showed up last year with a new set of P790's and I tried them out. Yes they feel great, look great, etc but simply do not have the same control as a blade does, especially after playing blades for so long I found it to be noticeable. 

 

Now would I consider something along the lines of P790 combo set? yes, a 4-5-6 iron would be good but I want my scoring clubs 7-PW to have as much control as possible. Problem for me with the P790's is that once in a while you just stripe one and it goes 10-15 yards further than normal. 

[Bad9]

26 minutes ago, Luds said:

.... If you are a poor ball-striker (higher handicap), then game improvement/distance irons will be both consistent and forgiving...

 

A poor ball striker is going to get poor results regardless of iron types. A GI club is not going to magically correct a push fade, slice or pull hook. Poor ballstikers/high handicaps generally have poor/inconsistent swings and will get poor/inconsistent results.

 

It has been argued for many years by a poster on the original GEA that GI clubs can benefit good ball strikers more than poor ones. Their directional misses are less severe and GI features can be of more benefit to them.

[boggyman]

7 minutes ago, ZacR88 said:

Going to say no for this one. 

 

I play some older 710MB's and have for the last 6 years. My buddy showed up last year with a new set of P790's and I tried them out. Yes they feel great, look great, etc but simply do not have the same control as a blade does, especially after playing blades for so long I found it to be noticeable. 

 

Now would I consider something along the lines of P790 combo set? yes, a 4-5-6 iron would be good but I want my scoring clubs 7-PW to have as much control as possible. Problem for me with the P790's is that once in a while you just stripe one and it goes 10-15 yards further than normal. 

When that “one” goes 10-15 yards further, is that due to just being hit in the middle of the face?  I normally bag a set of W/S blades from the 80s on a regular basis. Reason I ask this question is I have also a set of Rad Speed OL Cobras that are thin faced GI irons. First time I bagged them after a range session I hit a few “fliers” seemed like. Considering trading them for a new set of blades I’ve got on order so I thought I’d try them for giggles again one more time. Bagged them Monday and and didn’t hit not one “flier” all day. Really had a good day of ball striking to boot after not playing for nearly 2 months.The Rad  Speeds are for a GI iron, what I’d call on the smaller side. Got $30 in the scat game to boot! 

[MelloYello]

33 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

A poor ball striker is going to get poor results regardless of iron types. A GI club is not going to magically correct a push fade, slice or pull hook. Poor ballstikers/high handicaps generally have poor/inconsistent swings and will get poor/inconsistent results.

 

It has been argued for many years by a poster on the original GEA that GI clubs can benefit good ball strikers more than poor ones. Their directional misses are less severe and GI features can be of more benefit to them.

 

There's something to this. 

 

We shouldn't just look at our bad shots (which is what you often hear). Sometimes our worst shots are terrible and so people make the point you did above.

 

Golfers need to look at their better shots, too. If we look at the best 10 out of group of 20 shots, just how perfectly identical are those 10 best?

 

There are a lot of players out there whose best shots are still not perfectly centered and are surely not consistent. 

 

That's where forgiveness can really help. If you're decent but still can't perfectly flush shots on your better swings, forgiveness can go a long way in terms of feel and ball-flight. It can help stabilize trajectory and it can help minimize variations in carry distance. 

 

In the end, you're right that a player can suck so bad that clubs don't matter. But most golfers who play regularly probably don't fall into that and I think it's those types of players that make up the majority of forums like this (people who play golf regularly). 

 

.

Edited March 23, 2022 by MelloYello

[Beak]

Golf...easier?

 

I mean this in the best way but that's priceless

 

it's a game, have fun

 

I know for some means making it as hard as possible but it doesn't have to be that way

Edited March 23, 2022 by Beak

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

There's something to this. 

 

We shouldn't just look at our bad shots (which is what you often hear). Sometimes our worst shots are terrible and so people make the point you did above.

 

Golfers need to look at their better shots, too. If we look at the best 10 out of group of 20 shots, just how perfectly identical are those 10 best?

 

There are a lot of players out there whose best shots are still not perfectly centered and are surely not consistent. 

 

That's where forgiveness can really help. If you're decent but still can't perfectly flush shots on your better swings, forgiveness can go a long way in terms of feel and ball-flight. It can help stabilize trajectory and it can help minimize variations in carry distance. 

 

In the end, you're right that a player can suck so bad that clubs don't matter. But most golfers who play regularly probably don't fall into that and I think it's those types of players that make up the majority of forums like this (people who play golf regularly). 

 

.

I’ve always said that a player won’t play a club he can’t hit for very long. His ego won’t allow it.  I firmly believe that.  
 

And the “vain “ line of thinking. It puzzles me. Where is the line ?  Surely it’s not just at an MB and a CB ??? Those are to similar for the line to be there. 
 

Why not call all iron players vain - because they’re not carrying all hybrids ?  

[tobiasjd]

     One category of golfer exists who don't have big misses, but will still hate that minor miss shot.  Because it just felt awful.  Maybe they luck out, but it didn't land in the right portion of the green and spin back the way they wanted.  They are going to be upset with a bad feeling shot, even if it ends up in a good spot.  These are the golfers who should play blades.  They will practice hours on end to hone a pure strike as best they can and then enjoy the feeling of a consistently flushed shot and probably have a lot of opportunities to shoot good scores.

 

     Then there is another group of golfer out there who really don't care what the shot feels like as long as they end up in good spots.  They've accepted they aren't going to be perfect but still want to have fun and shoot the best scores they can.  These people will still practice, but they don't have time to spend hours upon hours fine tuning the perfect ball strike.  Just somehow get one fairly consistent ball flight.  A slice, a hook, it doesn't matter.  As long as it happens consistently enough to become predictable.  They can get to where they eliminate the fat shots and the really awful snap hooks and shanks.  There will still be quite a few less than ideal strikes and some that might feel terrible, but if they still end up in good positions, then that feels like success.  These players should avoid blades and play forgiving irons.  They will probably have a lot of opportunities to shoot good scores as well.  

[MelloYello]

1 hour ago, tobiasjd said:

     One category of golfer exists who don't have big misses, but will still hate that minor miss shot.  Because it just felt awful.  Maybe they luck out, but it didn't land in the right portion of the green and spin back the way they wanted.  They are going to be upset with a bad feeling shot, even if it ends up in a good spot.  These are the golfers who should play blades.  They will practice hours on end to hone a pure strike as best they can and then enjoy the feeling of a consistently flushed shot and probably have a lot of opportunities to shoot good scores.

 

In my eyes it should be the opposite actually. 

 

The biggest difference perimeter weighting provides is a dampened feel which is more consistent when subject to variations in impact location. Therefore, the signature of blades is the enhanced variation in feel. 

 

The player you described above--one who was particularly annoyed or distracted by the feeling of an occasional poor strike--would be precisely the type to prefer perimeter weighting as it would resolve that issue. 

 

It use to be taken as gospel that the best ball-strikers used blades because they practiced the most and had the most control over strike. We now know that's false. The PGA Tour shows that even among players that max out their practice and achieve top rankings (the OWGR itself being mostly a function of GIR), there's still a somewhat even split between those that prefer perimeter weighting and those that prefer a blade.  

  

1 hour ago, tobiasjd said:

Then there is another group of golfer out there who really don't care what the shot feels like as long as they end up in good spots.  They've accepted they aren't going to be perfect but still want to have fun and shoot the best scores they can.  These people will still practice, but they don't have time to spend hours upon hours fine tuning the perfect ball strike.  Just somehow get one fairly consistent ball flight.  A slice, a hook, it doesn't matter.  As long as it happens consistently enough to become predictable.  They can get to where they eliminate the fat shots and the really awful snap hooks and shanks.  There will still be quite a few less than ideal strikes and some that might feel terrible, but if they still end up in good positions, then that feels like success.  These players should avoid blades and play forgiving irons.  They will probably have a lot of opportunities to shoot good scores as well.  

 

To the above, we definitely know that some folks put more of a premium on the feeling of an iron, but that turns out to be mostly a function a SS. Virtually everyone would prefer to use a solid, 1-piece forged CB/MB if their SS warranted. There's virtually no one who would say a multi-piece, hollow-headed club comprised of welded components felt preferable. Even though it's subjective, we know darn well what 98% of golfers would pick all things being equal. 

 

This is where the evidence of both the LPGA as well as the preferences of us mortals factor in because we all lack the elite SS of the top male professionals. Without those exceptional levels of SS, it's particularly hard to make blades work and thus they increasingly demand a more and more perfect strike from the user.

 

I'll be the first to tell you, even as someone who can carry it 270 off the tee, it's still very hard to justify the idea of having anything longer than a blade 7- or 8-iron in the bag. 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by MelloYello

[Sharkys4]

The 'hotness' of the p790's might get the OP back to blades as many have said.  Having fairway fliers in scoring situations is the issue I had with these clubs.  I'm a +1 and with my blades I know that if I make a decent strike it goes a certain distance, every time. With p790 it was a guessing game.  They might be great for 3i 4i 5i replacements, but even then, you get that smooth swing flier 5i expecting to go 195 and goes 215 OB or in water...That to me was more demoralizing than a missed or thinned 5i that went 185 but still in play.  Similar deal with the CNCPT2's. 

 

Vanity has nothing to do with it, in my case, I'm used to the sole and turf interaction that a blade profile provides, clubs like t100 or JPX's to me might as well be Callaway big berthas.....Some cavity backs come very close to the profile I prefer (ZX7's), I gamed some Honmas 737v's but that sole was not for me out of the rough same for p790's

 

The ideal state I guess is to find consistency in the weak areas of the bag...Lot's of trial and error and also being honest with yourself on what works and what doesn't.  If you continue to play with tools that hurt you rather than help you, then you have bigger problems 🤪

[Nard_S]

Do people examine how much they actually practice with long irons?

When I did, found I just don't put in the reps even on a steady 250 balls a week schedule.

Did not match efforts of short, mids & metals. Not even close.

It shows on the course too. Just saying.

[sdemo]

11 minutes ago, Sharkys4 said:

Vanity has nothing to do with it, in my case, I'm used to the sole and turf interaction that a blade profile provides, clubs like t100 or JPX's to me might as well be Callaway big berthas.....Some cavity backs come very close to the profile I prefer (ZX7's), I gamed some Honmas 737v's but that sole was not for me out of the rough same for p790's

 

Beside the point, but have you actually held a T100 in your hands? T100 has less offset and almost identical profile to the ZX7, aside from having an even thinner / rounded top line than the ZX7.

 

If "turf interaction" is your bugaboo - and truly your scoring difference maker - there are CB perimeter weighted irons of every different type of sole design. Surely blades are not the ONLY shape that will fit your "need," and other options might provide a bit of relief for slightly off-center strikes.

 

You're a good player, but when pros are more often selecting CB and perimeter weighted irons - through the whole set - than blades, it begs the question of whether you need to take a serious second look at your strategy. 

 

My $0.02.

[dayvei214]

I agree that scores won't go down and in fact I would say there's a possibility it might go up... Don't get me wrong I think 790s are great for the right golfer. But there's something about playing blades (tour irons) and player's irons that is a little different than GI IRONS. yes I consider 790 GI IRONS. Distance control, feel, and knowing your mishits.

 

Why in the world do I need my 7 iron to go 200 when I have 5 possible clubs that can get me there with control.

 

Yes 790 will be more forgiving, yes it's longer but imo at the cost of a lot more.

 

I'd go with one step below blade's, 223, t100, Apex pro. So many options....

[Kuuuch]

Lol I love this thread. I have always thought people think blades are less forgiving than they really are. With that being said blades to p790’s is a  pretty drastic change.

[Sharkys4]

21 minutes ago, sdemo said:

 

Beside the point, but have you actually held a T100 in your hands? T100 has less offset and almost identical profile to the ZX7, aside from having an even thinner / rounded top line than the ZX7.

 

If "turf interaction" is your bugaboo - and truly your scoring difference maker - there are CB perimeter weighted irons of every different type of sole design. Surely blades are not the ONLY shape that will fit your "need," and other options might provide a bit of relief for slightly off-center strikes.

 

You're a good player, but when pros are more often selecting CB and perimeter weighted irons - through the whole set - than blades, it begs the question of whether you need to take a serious second look at your strategy. 

 

My $0.02.

For me that is the point tho,  I've found a sole type and shape that works for me!  Yeah, I've hit both the previous T100 and current T100's, I was excited about the progressive soles on the new ones, but still not quite there for me unfortunately, felt great.  Offset is whole different story....I've tried Apex Pros and TCB's, TM P7MC's, Miz HMB's, Miura tc201's, endless litany of CB's, no lack of ho'ing, trust me....

 

The proof for me, I've been gaming the 737v's, then switched to some older blades on a whim and shot 12 out of 15 rounds under par, no swing changes, no new ho'd putter, just flagging more shots, flighting shots better/more consistently/in-between yardages were easier to sort out with the blades...kinda goes against this concept the pro's are espousing.  That's my anomalous experience...🤷‍♂️

 

 

[ob1soccer]

if you don't hit the sweet spot every time then isn't it better to play something more forgiving to make the misses better

[Dinosaur]

I went the other way. Having various sets through the years, dating back to some vintage Bobby Jones blades, to modern era casted, Hogan's, and others, my recent acquisition is Titleist 710 MB's.  Many have told me, that these are "above my pay grade" (in terms of ability), but for whatever reason I seem to handle these quite well, or at least no worse than any others including so-called G.I. irons. They have Project X flighted shafts 6.0 with the exception of a PW which is S300.  Why? IDK and IDC. 

[Dinosaur]

48 minutes ago, Kuuuch said:

Lol I love this thread. I have always thought people think blades are less forgiving than they really are. With that being said blades to p790’s is a  pretty drastic change.

Yah, I've commented on this in the past only to be chastened by "conventional wisdom" cohorts (an oxymoron). Possibly a lot has to do with what you started out with. In my case, at the beginning if my time, ALL clubs were blades and there is also quite a difference in lofts compared with the modern irons which are 2 or more degrees stronger. Some has to do with your "feel".  I believe the axiom "feel is not real" is not even relevant. Feel is very much real to an individual at the time.  Imagined? probably, but just the same "If it works, it works".

[MikeFred19]

Great looking iron and I have though of making the switch myself. Just somethin about that classic blade feel and look.

[DoughBack18]

So I’ve had the 2021 790’s for about 8 weeks, played 10+ rounds/9’s. In that time I have hit 1 shot that I would call a hot flier. A 6 iron on a par 3 into the wind that cut right thru it. In that same time i’ve hit numerous shots that I thought would come up short and ended up covering. For me that trade off has been a no brainer. 
 

I’ll say this, my good shots have not been any worse with these vs my previous Z785’s. But, my bad shots have been slightly better. As a dad of a 3 year old that gets minimal practice time anymore, i’ll take what I can get. 
 

Also, at least half of the best players in my area use some sort of players distance or game improvement irons. I’ve seen a 62 shot by a guy with Razr X’s and my friend has won 2 club champs using 4-W in the 2017 790’s. All i’m saying is you don’t have to play Miura’s or MB’s to be a player. 
 

 

[Kuuuch]

I’d also mention the other thing that has to be talked about here is ball flight and spin…among other things.

 

Last weekend it was 30-40mph gusts all day and with an MB I can much more easily throw a flighted knuckle ball out there than a guy with a p790. I would beg to say I’m for sure a couple shots better with mbs on a windy day than a distance/high launch GI club. 
 

The other side of the coin is spin, I play hard/fast greens and stopping power is also an advantage. 
 

One last thing since I love this topic is bad lies, most folks imo don’t play the ball down everywhere and I’m a firm believer it’s way easier to get the club on the ball with a smaller profile/less bounce MB or smaller CB than it is a thicker GI. 
 

Not disagreeing with other points made about center contact etc just pointing out other factors that I think make a difference in performance. 

[ob1soccer]

50 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

So I’ve had the 2021 790’s for about 8 weeks, played 10+ rounds/9’s. In that time I have hit 1 shot that I would call a hot flier. A 6 iron on a par 3 into the wind that cut right thru it. In that same time i’ve hit numerous shots that I thought would come up short and ended up covering. For me that trade off has been a no brainer. 
 

I’ll say this, my good shots have not been any worse with these vs my previous Z785’s. But, my bad shots have been slightly better. As a dad of a 3 year old that gets minimal practice time anymore, i’ll take what I can get. 
 

Also, at least half of the best players in my area use some sort of players distance or game improvement irons. I’ve seen a 62 shot by a guy with Razr X’s and my friend has won 2 club champs using 4-W in the 2017 790’s. All i’m saying is you don’t have to play Miura’s or MB’s to be a player. 
 

 

I am still using my 765 which I felt were very similar to your 785. Currently trying out the 790 and was happy to read what u wrote about the difference between the 2 clubs. I am hoping they do the same for me.

[LUMA]

Recently went from MB to T100. Now that the players stuff looks and feels like a blade, what's the point of the blade? I must say tho, I enjoy the flight of my MB's, but I am getting away with a lot more BS with the T100.

Edited March 23, 2022 by LUMA