Moving from Blades to P970's. Lazy?

[DoughBack18]

39 minutes ago, ob1soccer said:

I am still using my 765 which I felt were very similar to your 785. Currently trying out the 790 and was happy to read what u wrote about the difference between the 2 clubs. I am hoping they do the same for me.

Awesome, hope they work out well for you too! Let us know!

[ob1soccer]

34 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Awesome, hope they work out well for you too! Let us know!

how much more forgiving are the 790?

[DoughBack18]

3 minutes ago, ob1soccer said:

how much more forgiving are the 790?

Kind of hard to quantify that, but I feel like I have maybe half a ball off a center strike where the ball speed and launch stay pretty consistent. So if that area is dime to nickel size on the 765’s, it feels more nickel to quarter size on the 790’s. 
 

So far I’ve found that more of the shots i’m hoping will work out (maybe begging) in the air are working out... those “i didn’t quite get that one” shots. My miss is usually a little toe side and those misses are flying pretty close to my center contact numbers.
 

[ob1soccer]

32 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Kind of hard to quantify that, but I feel like I have maybe half a ball off a center strike where the ball speed and launch stay pretty consistent. So if that area is dime to nickel size on the 765’s, it feels more nickel to quarter size on the 790’s. 
 

So far I’ve found that more of the shots i’m hoping will work out (maybe begging) in the air are working out... those “i didn’t quite get that one” shots. My miss is usually a little toe side and those misses are flying pretty close to my center contact numbers.
 

that is great to hear and exactly what I am looking for. I really dont care what they feel like, the off center strikes are much more important to me. I have those I didnt quite get that one more then i want, so i will definitely take the extra help. I also miss toe side as well and if those fly reasonably well i will be very happy. Time to get to the course, thx for the info

[dayvei214]

6 hours ago, LUMA said:

Recently went from MB to T100. Now that the players stuff looks and feels like a blade, what's the point of the blade? I must say tho, I enjoy the flight of my MB's, but I am getting away with a lot more BS with the T100.

so you can feel the paint shoot from your fingers to your heart when you catch one a couple grooves low, reminding you to never do that again. 😂 it's like Pavlov... bad shot stings. good shot soft butter. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

I'm a 8HC and I got better when I switched from P750's to the P7TW's.  I'm a big believer that you'll play better with what looks and feels "right" to you.  Regardless of my handicap, I just like looking down at a thin top line and feel more confident with a thinner sole.  

[UCCC rat]

Two years ago I was hitting Titleist 716 MBs, made the switch last year to p790s and went from a 4 to a 1 handicap.  I saw the biggest difference in strokes gained on par 3s and shorter par 5s. Overall I got the level of forgiveness I was lacking and didn’t lose too much workability or feel. 

[bankbank]

On 3/19/2022 at 4:57 AM, lefthack said:

Play what you enjoy hitting. That's really all that matters. 

couldn't agree more

[cav5]

On 3/23/2022 at 3:24 PM, Sharkys4 said:

The 'hotness' of the p790's might get the OP back to blades as many have said.  Having fairway fliers in scoring situations is the issue I had with these clubs.  I'm a +1 and with my blades I know that if I make a decent strike it goes a certain distance, every time. With p790 it was a guessing game.  They might be great for 3i 4i 5i replacements, but even then, you get that smooth swing flier 5i expecting to go 195 and goes 215 OB or in water...That to me was more demoralizing than a missed or thinned 5i that went 185 but still in play.  Similar deal with the CNCPT2's. 

 

Vanity has nothing to do with it, in my case, I'm used to the sole and turf interaction that a blade profile provides, clubs like t100 or JPX's to me might as well be Callaway big berthas.....Some cavity backs come very close to the profile I prefer (ZX7's), I gamed some Honmas 737v's but that sole was not for me out of the rough same for p790's

 

The ideal state I guess is to find consistency in the weak areas of the bag...Lot's of trial and error and also being honest with yourself on what works and what doesn't.  If you continue to play with tools that hurt you rather than help you, then you have bigger problems 🤪

 

Yupp I feel the same. We actually play the same blades and have same 'cap. I think another big key is play from the rough. If you have 160 out, its just easier to move a narrow soled and small headed 8 iron through the rough.

 

I am trying to get some help though and will be testing a set a of iBlades to start the year

[RobS]

On the o.p.'s original question, I know several players who have gone this route including some legitimate plus handicaps that are competing in significant amateur events.  I would however test some different models to see how they work for you....790's, 770's, Apex Pro, i525, etc.  The problem that some better players have with this style of club is spin and distance control out of the rough or even slightly wet condition.  This mostly applies to players that don't generate a lot of spin with this type of iron.  They will be more prone to fliers and at the low handicap or better level, having a short iron fly 10-15 yards long on an approach can be a round killer.  If you're interested in this style of iron, I'd try a few options in as close to playing conditions as possible to see what gives you the best front to back dispersion.

[DoughBack18]

So I can’t speak to any prior models, but the 2021s are not giving me this flyer issue. It was definitely my biggest concern when changing from a forged CB style, but I have not seen it happening. 
 

I played in wet conditions with them yesterday and saw the type of reaction that I would expect based on my typical game. Do they spin as much as a forged iron? No... But I haven’t had any issues thus far with stopping power. If you clip a PW or 9 iron well, its going to spin back a few feet. Again, not as much as a forged blade, but that reduced spin also means less tilt axis spin and should mean less dispersion in theory. And that is exactly what I have seen play out this far. 
 

As a reference i’m currently a 0, so I’m not great but I do have decent expectations for my game. I have found no drop off switching to these, it has been all positive for me thus far. Again, not saying they are for everyone, but worth a look for sure. Go low everyone!!

[Red4282]

3 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

So I can’t speak to any prior models, but the 2021s are not giving me this flyer issue. It was definitely my biggest concern when changing from a forged CB style, but I have not seen it happening. 
 

I played in wet conditions with them yesterday and saw the type of reaction that I would expect based on my typical game. Do they spin as much as a forged iron? No... But I haven’t had any issues thus far with stopping power. If you clip a PW or 9 iron well, its going to spin back a few feet. Again, not as much as a forged blade, but that reduced spin also means less tilt axis spin and should mean less dispersion in theory. And that is exactly what I have seen play out this far. 
 

As a reference i’m currently a 0, so I’m not great but I do have decent expectations for my game. I have found no drop off switching to these, it has been all positive for me thus far. Again, not saying they are for everyone, but worth a look for sure. Go low everyone!!

Reduced spin does not mean reduced tilt on the spin axis. Part of the problem with this design is its using increased peak height to counter lower spin rates. If you do catch a flyer, like every club does regardless of design, your baseline spin is already lower. That can and does lead to alot of consistency issues, so they are much more prone to flyers/dippers.

[Typhoon1992]

On 3/23/2022 at 9:27 AM, bladehunter said:

Are we calling 7 of the current top 15 in the world golf rankings -  vain ?   Serious question.  We read claims that “ pros don’t even play them “ but that’s never been a true statement.   

PGA Tour pros, fine but for most everyone else I see with them… vanity.

[DoughBack18]

3 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Reduced spin does not mean reduced tilt on the spin axis. Part of the problem with this design is its using increased peak height to counter lower spin rates. If you do catch a flyer, like every club does regardless of design, your baseline spin is already lower. That can and does lead to alot of consistency issues, so they are much more prone to flyers/dippers.

Yes, just meant that something spinning faster on that tilted axis would have the potential to curve more. Agreed that the degree of that tilt would be unaffected by club type within reason👍🏼

[Red4282]

48 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Yes, just meant that something spinning faster on that tilted axis would have the potential to curve more. Agreed that the degree of that tilt would be unaffected by club type within reason👍🏼

Yes that is correct, albeit, partially. The lower spinning club may not curve as much but will likely be going further (and faster), which would negate the rpm difference due to angular dispersion. 

[Nard_S]

2 hours ago, Typhoon1992 said:

PGA Tour pros, fine but for most everyone else I see with them… vanity.

So what do you call using gear that makes your poor swing look better than it is.....vanity.

[bladehunter]

15 hours ago, Typhoon1992 said:

PGA Tour pros, fine but for most everyone else I see with them… vanity.

I dont recall the last time a saw a set in person besides myself.  Where are these 10 handicaps with blades ?  

[chisag]

12 hours ago, Nard_S said:

So what do you call using gear that makes your poor swing look better than it is.....vanity.

 

 

... No gear makes a poor swing look better than it is. A bad swing is a bad swing regardless of club choice. No college baseball player uses a wooden bat because metal bats are much more forgiving and longer. That isn't vanity just common sense. 

[Nard_S]

3 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... No gear makes a poor swing look better than it is. A bad swing is a bad swing regardless of club choice. No college baseball player uses a wooden bat because metal bats are much more forgiving and longer. That isn't vanity just common sense. 

 Honest, someone throw a broad brushed statement of ignorance, once in a while I'll return the favor. But this cloak of "common sense" is really just something to mask reality that guys like to go buy new bling, like the latest and greatest and are somewhat annoyed that not everyone does the same. That the guy with old Hogan's has just as much fun, plays as well and his budget is a 1/10" of the "humble crowd". Of the "sensible ones". $2K a year for rationality. Lol. Yeah, okay. 

 

"wow, this tech has me better than ever". Yeah, if the shafts 20g lighter and lofts are 4 degrees stronger, yeah, you ought to be quite longer. That's common sense. Reality is you're no better than before. You look better but your skill set is exact same.

[chisag]

46 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 Honest, someone throw a broad brushed statement of ignorance, once in a while I'll return the favor.

 

 

... Not sure why some take offense at "vanity" because many here at wrx engage in vanity form top to bottom. Caring about what your clubs look like "in your bag" is just pure vanity. That said, there is nothing wrong with vanity as long as you know that's what it is. I have read here some will wear shoes that aren't the most comfortable but just look awesome. For me at least,  my shoes should be comfort first and looks a very distant second because my feet don't care what my shoes look like as they can't even see them. I can of course make the same argument for what clubs look like in any setting other than the address position. Common sense is playing the clubs that give you your best chance at shooting your lowest score but as we all know there are many reasons to play this awesome game and for some shooting their lowest score just isn't the goal and nuthin' wrong with that. 

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... Not sure why some take offense at "vanity" because many here at wrx engage in vanity form top to bottom. Caring about what your clubs look like "in your bag" is just pure vanity. That said, there is nothing wrong with vanity as long as you know that's what it is. I have read here some will wear shoes that aren't the most comfortable but just look awesome. For me at least,  my shoes should be comfort first and looks a very distant second because my feet don't care what my shoes look like as they can't even see them. I can of course make the same argument for what clubs look like in any setting other than the address position. Common sense is playing the clubs that give you your best chance at shooting your lowest score but as we all know there are many reasons to play this awesome game and for some shooting their lowest score just isn't the goal and nuthin' wrong with that. 

Ok honest question. If my shoes, shirt, etc makes me feel good, and in turn gives me confidence, couldnt that positively impact my score? The ol “dress for success” thing?

[chisag]

Just now, Red4282 said:

Ok honest question. If my shoes, shirt, etc makes me feel good, and in turn gives me confidence, couldnt that positively impact my score? The ol “dress for success” thing?

 

... OK an honest answer. Sure as long as they perform their primary function of comfort. I thought it was only the women in the 60's that said "I LOVE this shoes but they are killing my feet!" * I like fashion as much as ..,. well maybe not as much as younger players today ... but I still enjoy looking good on the course. That said I honestly don't think how I am dressed has ever had any effect on my score though. Ymmv ... 

* there was a thread years ago about most comfortable shoes for walking and I posted a link to some Foot Joy Athletic shoes that I wore then and the most comfortable I had found. (since then I have played Ecco's that are even more comfortable) But I just got blasted and ridiculed by more than a few for my fashion choice. Didn't bother me at all but imagine some were scared off potentially buying them by the remarks. A shame because they were very comfortable. 

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

 

... OK an honest answer. Sure as long as they perform their primary function of comfort. I thought it was only the women in the 60's that said "I LOVE this shoes but they are killing my feet!" * I like fashion as much as ..,. well maybe not as much as younger players today ... but I still enjoy looking good on the course. That said I honestly don't think how I am dressed has ever had any effect on my score though. Ymmv ... 

* there was a thread years ago about most comfortable shoes for walking and I posted a link to some Foot Joy Athletic shoes that I wore then and the most comfortable I had found. (since then I have played Ecco's that are even more comfortable) But I just got blasted and ridiculed by more than a few for my fashion choice. Didn't bother me at all but imagine some were scared off potentially buying them by the remarks. A shame because they were very comfortable. 

So maybe everyone just needs to pump the brakes on the vanity stuff.

[ob1soccer]

i thought we were talking golf clubs

[JDIL]

On 3/23/2022 at 12:24 PM, Sharkys4 said:

The 'hotness' of the p790's might get the OP back to blades as many have said.  Having fairway fliers in scoring situations is the issue I had with these clubs.  I'm a +1 and with my blades I know that if I make a decent strike it goes a certain distance, every time. With p790 it was a guessing game.  They might be great for 3i 4i 5i replacements, but even then, you get that smooth swing flier 5i expecting to go 195 and goes 215 OB or in water...That to me was more demoralizing than a missed or thinned 5i that went 185 but still in play.  Similar deal with the CNCPT2's. 

 

Vanity has nothing to do with it, in my case, I'm used to the sole and turf interaction that a blade profile provides, clubs like t100 or JPX's to me might as well be Callaway big berthas.....Some cavity backs come very close to the profile I prefer (ZX7's), I gamed some Honmas 737v's but that sole was not for me out of the rough same for p790's

 

The ideal state I guess is to find consistency in the weak areas of the bag...Lot's of trial and error and also being honest with yourself on what works and what doesn't.  If you continue to play with tools that hurt you rather than help you, then you have bigger problems 🤪

 

Weird, when I pick up a ZX7 it looked pretty good. When I put the new T100 down I'm like, wow I can't even see the topline it's so skinny. But I didn't consider turf interaction much, until recently. I'm not fast, and not good. But I hit the Apex Pro better than the P790s. I kept sticking with the P790s because that's what I should be gaming, need the help, etc. etc. 

 

Turns out for my swing right now, the thinner sole helps me big time. I'm a picker. I bruise the grass on 5-8 irons. With a P790 my shots launch low, even after I got the new ones (higher launching) and weakened the loft 1 degree. Can't elevate the 5. Bought a single 21 Apex Pro 5 iron to test, and I can actually hit it (from now on no more testing on mats, I'll just buy a single

iron and test it in real conditions). I hate pulling a hybrid at this yardage and now can rely on my 5i.

 

[jafstar]

I'm trying out a silar switch to MP20 HMB. Glad to see I'm not the only 'lazy' one but want to edge out my competition.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by jafstar

[Canyonaro]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:48 PM, MelloYello said:

A few of my personal observations when it comes to irons: 

(1) Perimeter weighting (i.e. MOI) does a lot more to dampen the vibration of a mis-hit than it does to affect ball-flight.

 

(2) Variations in carry distance are usually the result of poor shaft fit. If you need more reliable carry yardages, try going with a softer or lighter shaft that you can load more consistently. That's probably more important for biasing your individual irons to given distances. 

 

(3) I find it pretty easy to hit the center of the face. My misses are with face angle and path which "forgiveness" does not affect.

 

(4) Picking irons based on how far you hit them is probably not the best course of action if you want to optimize your ball-striking skill. Pay more attention to launch angle, especially in the longest irons where hybrids and shafts can really help. As long as you're confident you can launch it, you can dial yourself in with any type of iron. 

 

(5) Sole width is 10x more important than MOI if you're a steep swinger. 

 

.

 

#1 MOI is resistance to twisting. Particularly on toe strikes since the strike point is father from the shaft, a higher MOI club will twist less. The result is less loss of ball speed and less tendency to go right.  For some better players who tend to hook toe strikes, higher MOI can be worse for them. The last thing they want is a straight start line with hook spin. This is exactly what some P790 haters describe as the "bad miss" long left with the 790s. Not every design fits every player. 

 

#2-5 totally agree on all points, especially #5. Fitting on mats is totally useless to me. The secret to the swing is in the dirt!

[Ben Berube]

On 3/18/2022 at 3:03 PM, tets said:

I also think scores won’t improve.  People who say mis hits will end up way short, maybe but that may be short of the deep bunker green side, where the forgiving club is plugged under the lip.  I’m thinking of going the opposite way.  I’m a +1 and got a set off Mizuno Pro 225s, thinking I can use the help.  I’ve played a couple times with them now and  I miss the thin sole of blades.  Stay tuned, they may be on the BST forum soon.

Im with you too bro. I have played blades my whole life. I have kids and can no loner play 2-4x a week with leagues or even range time. 
So I went down the rabbit hole of Players Distance. Have tried Jpx Forged, 545’s, 585’s, J15 DF, D7 Forged and now p790’s just showed up. 
I shot a 78 with the d7’s last week but may I do not like them. Big, fat and huge soles. 
Tried hitting the p790’s in my net and feels like swinging a feather. Did NOT feel on plane and now Im thinking about heading back. 
I had some iBlades last year in Nippon 105s and loved them. It was dumb of me to let them go. 
IDK - afraid to try these p790’s and hate them. 
Am I losing it? Maybe 82’s with cool players shots is better than a 78 with straight, high shots that a monkey could make isn’t so important? 

[chisag]

28 minutes ago, Ben Berube said:

Am I losing it? Maybe 82’s with cool players shots is better than a 78 with straight, high shots that a monkey could make isn’t so important? 

 

 

... I think this post sums up many replies and thought on WRX. I cannot imagine giving up 4 strokes a round because of the way a club looks, not how it performs. The other relevant thought is there are lots of different forgiveness levels between an MB and P790's. Pretty huge jump from an MB to a P790 and from Taylor Made alone there are P770's and P-7MC's. Of course other OEMs have quite a few CB's that are much closer to a MB in size shape and performance but offer a little more forgiveness, especially in the long irons. My MIM Tour's produce far from "high shots a monkey could make" irons and I can and do play most every kind of shot with them.

... If losing 4 shots per round has nothing to do with the level of your enjoyment playing golf and you simply prefer to play MB's regardless of your score then of course you should play whatever makes you happy. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

There have been many expert comparisons of blades vs cavity backs on trackman that show there is very little difference in forgiveness between them. It’s a perception thing… cb’s and other improvement irons feel better on mishits but don’t actually produce better results. I’m fact they are usually less consistent. 
 

Here is an excellent video that is hard to ignore… but hey believe what you want. 
 

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by FormerBigDaddy