Moving from Blades to P970's. Lazy?

[DoughBack18]

Dispersion is king, but short/long dispersion counts too. I’ve got the 2021 P790’s and i’ve found them to fly a more consistent distance when miss hit slightly. Those misses that would fall a club or 1/2 a club short with my Z785’s are now carrying pretty close to the number. Don’t get me wrong, a bad swing will still produce a bad shot. But i’ve found my small misses to be penalized less.
 

I keep emailing ShotLink to set up shop at my local muni. If they ever get off the pot i’ll be sure to follow up with some hard on-course data!! 👏🏼👏🏼

[ob1soccer]

19 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Dispersion is king, but short/long dispersion counts too. I’ve got the 2021 P790’s and i’ve found them to fly a more consistent distance when miss hit slightly. Those misses that would fall a club or 1/2 a club short with my Z785’s are now carrying pretty close to the number. Don’t get me wrong, a bad swing will still produce a bad shot. But i’ve found my small misses to be penalized less.
 

I keep emailing ShotLink to set up shop at my local muni. If they ever get off the pot i’ll be sure to follow up with some hard on-course data!! 👏🏼👏🏼

i have the Srixon 765 and strongly considering P790. From what u describe the TM are exactly what I am looking for. I need my misses to perform better

[ProStryker]

A lot of Tour players don’t play blades. That doesn’t make them lazy….

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

Dispersion is king, but short/long dispersion counts too. I’ve got the 2021 P790’s and i’ve found them to fly a more consistent distance when miss hit slightly. Those misses that would fall a club or 1/2 a club short with my Z785’s are now carrying pretty close to the number. Don’t get me wrong, a bad swing will still produce a bad shot. But i’ve found my small misses to be penalized less.
 

I keep emailing ShotLink to set up shop at my local muni. If they ever get off the pot i’ll be sure to follow up with some hard on-course data!! 👏🏼👏🏼

There have been a number of tests to show says otherwise, front back dispersion is better with more traditional clubs bc you dont get all these wild up and down speed and spin numbers. Yes when you mishit a traditional club its going to fall a little shot, but it’s predictable. With others its a complete guessing game.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Red4282

[DoughBack18]

My point is that I don’t want those slight miss-hits to fall short. It may be predictable that they will, but that doesn’t really help me much since I can’t predict when I’m going to mis-hit one. 

 

I’ve also read/heard/seen the low spin missile that can creep in occasionally with these. I can live with that trade off if the misses are better. I feel like i’m going to hit more shots that are struck 90% and go the full 100%, as opposed to few i’ll hit 100% that go 110%. 
 

I have’t seen anything that uses hard data, like an Iron Byron type setup to measure consistency of spin and carry, but it would be interesting see!

[Bad9]

If you get a set of G series Pings or Callaway Big Berthas you could be really lazy, stay sitting in the cart and let the clubs swing themselves.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Bad9
added lazy

[Thats two thus far Shooter]

I guess forgiveness is a vague term? Some clubs are very forgiving but give you a ton of fliers. I need to know if need 170, that the club will go 170. If i miss-hit left or right thats on me, but I cant play with clubs where I hit it perfectly thinking its going to go 170 and it's over the green at 180. The old school AP2's did this all the time. The new T100's seem to be pretty accurate in north/south dispersion. 

 

North/South dispersion IMO is the only thing that has really helped me lower my scores. P770s might not give you that, but also miss-hits on an MP5 might be way short. I'd hit a T100 or a Zx7 or an Apex honestly before going from blade to super forgiving. 

[realmfg]

2 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

My point is that I don’t want those slight miss-hits to fall short. It may be predictable that they will, but that doesn’t really help me much since I can’t predict when I’m going to mis-hit one. 

 

I’ve also read/heard/seen the low spin missile that can creep in occasionally with these. I can live with that trade off if the misses are better. I feel like i’m going to hit more shots that are struck 90% and go the full 100%, as opposed to few i’ll hit 100% that go 110%. 
 

I have’t seen anything that uses hard data, like an Iron Byron type setup to measure consistency of spin and carry, but it would be interesting see!

I think this would have a lot more to do with knowing your yardages based on what clubs you are using.   I know my yardages for my Zx7 and my blades.  The blades have higher lofts and shafts are 1/4 inch shorter.  I could be hitting a Zx7 9i vs an 8i and sometimes possibly a 7i in the blade.  My misses are pretty darn similar when comparing it that way.

[Kyle M]

I personally would not, and this is from watching my son use them for nearly 2 seasons. He had the 2019 version and now has TM P7MB’s. With the 790’s his front to back dispersion was not good. I’ve watched him hit a 7iron over 195 in the air when he was playing it for 175. In my experience from watching many of his golf rounds, yes they are more forgiving, but the dispersion can be wildly uncontrollable. 

[ballzo]

I bought a set of matching muscle backs to the cavities I have been playing for a long time. I had always liked the look of the muscleback and I thought maybe just to play with and possibly improve my ballstriking I'd buy a set but they were hard to find these days. Well it took me a while to find the set (MacGregor Pro-M) I found a very nice set early last year and started playing casual rounds with them. For the first few rounds I felt as though I was not striking them very well, could have just been nervous about them, intimidated..... I don't know. But then I really started hitting them well last summer and somehow got my hdcp down from 6 down to 2 right as I started playing these. I even ditched some of my hybrids and opted to put long irons back in my bag again thinking I'd help work on my striking with some difficult to hit equipment. I had some great scores over the summer there 67,72,67, all within a month or so. So I'm not sure about the debate here, I stuck with these irons in my bag the rest of the year just because I was hitting them so well and making some good scores somehow, at some point I'm probably going to go back to the cavities this summer and see what my striking is like. Should be lights out? Maybe....

[lefthack]

On 3/18/2022 at 3:26 PM, Htk084 said:

But I will say this-  golf is about fun!   If you enjoy playing blades more, go for it!  Maybe at least play something forgiving in the long irons 

Life's too short to play shovels.

[Htk084]

2 minutes ago, lefthack said:

Life's too short to play shovels.

I respect that!  I’m all for playing what u want to play with, I like shovels 

[lefty67]

On 3/17/2022 at 4:03 PM, Tgolfer66 said:

After trying a buddies P790's I'm thinking of moving from Mizuno blades to P790's. I have plenty of distance and still play decent (4ish hcp) just figure I why not make golf easier. Am I just being lazy or are others doing this?

I don’t think you’re being lazy - but I know for me, it made me lazy. I was able to be a bit more sloppy and get away with it. Over time a strength (ball striking) turned into just average. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by lefty67

[NikkoAZ15]

Just picked up a set of the latest T100 in 3-PW and putting my 2014 Taylormade MB’s on the sideline. Not sure if my scores will really change (2hcp) or not but I’m getting on average 2-3 degrees higher launch angle and an extra 5-7 yards of carry per club. Same shaft in both sets Rifle 6.5’s and standard length, lofts and lies. Playing this Friday so will have an update coming soon! 

[MattStrube]

I would say, be Careful...

 

One of THE most important variables in fitting that people tend to neglect is Bounce, and how the club interacts with the ground.  Some players (🙋‍♂️ Mizuno JPX 921 Tour) that use blades or a blade like irons do so because they have less bounce; either knowingly or unknowingly.  If you hand me an iron with more bounce than what I have, it's HookCity for me.  The club hits the turf, the bottom edge stays on the turf too long and i react and try to "help" the club through, which slams the face shut.  

 

So, long story short; forgiveness isn't always directly correlated to head size, sometimes smaller is better because of other factors can outweigh traditional forms of "forgiveness".  

[sdemo]

Bottom line: get fit outdoors, pick whatever combination produces the best, most consistent results for YOU, and immediately stop thinking about it and hit the range.

 

I'm currently playing to a +3 - so safe to say that I hit the ball fairly well - and I play a set of J15 CBs. I've had the same irons since 2015, and my level of trust and consistency with these irons absolutely contributes to my scoring. I'm at the point that I've lost a couple grooves on my PW, 9 iron and 8 iron, and I'm dreading buying new irons and having to figure out standard yardages, gaps, avg. misses, etc. all over again - it will cost me strokes, and it costs everybody in this thread strokes every single time they change.

 

At my level, there's no reason to play blades. At the pro level, there's very little reason to play blades - most of the top players aren't. If you're not at either of these levels, there's no reason to consider blades aside from vanity. I don't know why anybody would play blades when they're actively hurting most everybody's score, since *checks notes* golf is about hitting the fewest shots possible. 

 

Don't give in to the WRX "think tank" or "golf purist" nonsense. Buy what works best for you, and forget what anybody thinks about what's in your bag - the scorecard will do the talking.

Edited March 22, 2022 by sdemo

[ob1soccer]

14 minutes ago, MattStrube said:

I would say, be Careful...

 

One of THE most important variables in fitting that people tend to neglect is Bounce, and how the club interacts with the ground.  Some players (🙋‍♂️ Mizuno JPX 921 Tour) that use blades or a blade like irons do so because they have less bounce; either knowingly or unknowingly.  If you hand me an iron with more bounce than what I have, it's HookCity for me.  The club hits the turf, the bottom edge stays on the turf too long and i react and try to "help" the club through, which slams the face shut.  

 

So, long story short; forgiveness isn't always directly correlated to head size, sometimes smaller is better because of other factors can outweigh traditional forms of "forgiveness".  

how do u know how much bounce each iron has? is that listed on the specs page

[Red4282]

9 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

My point is that I don’t want those slight miss-hits to fall short. It may be predictable that they will, but that doesn’t really help me much since I can’t predict when I’m going to mis-hit one. 

 

I’ve also read/heard/seen the low spin missile that can creep in occasionally with these. I can live with that trade off if the misses are better. I feel like i’m going to hit more shots that are struck 90% and go the full 100%, as opposed to few i’ll hit 100% that go 110%. 
 

I have’t seen anything that uses hard data, like an Iron Byron type setup to measure consistency of spin and carry, but it would be interesting see!

Oh, dont be mistaken… they will miss short…. But they will also miss long- hence the unpredictability. They just arent a more forgiving design, scientifically, data driven…. They dont have a lower cog, they dont have an increased blade size, all they have is a hollow construction face to raise ball speed. But that same construction is what leads to the inconsistencies with spin and speeds. They do give you the *impression* that they are more forgiving, as they mute the mishit to feel less harsh. All these references to PGA pros, Id like to know who on tour uses a Full set of hollow construction irons… 

[Smurf29]

Once I switched from blades to blades mid-low irons  cbs on the top 4-6, felt like got a stroke or two back a round. I agree with the person who said that depends on the course. But I heard Shane Lowery in an interview say he could play blades but combs them just to have a little extra forgiveness can’t hurt. He’s pretty good player…

 

 

[mudmarlin]

Jordan Spieth plays the T100.  I highly doubt he would play them if he is getting the crazy inconsistent spin and distances you are talking about.  And he is playing for millions.  There are also a few men and a few women even playing the T200.  And pretty sure they do have a higher moi, it’s not just feel.

[MelloYello]

A few of my personal observations when it comes to irons: 

(1) Perimeter weighting (i.e. MOI) does a lot more to dampen the vibration of a mis-hit than it does to affect ball-flight.

 

(2) Variations in carry distance are usually the result of poor shaft fit. If you need more reliable carry yardages, try going with a softer or lighter shaft that you can load more consistently. That's probably more important for biasing your individual irons to given distances. 

 

(3) I find it pretty easy to hit the center of the face. My misses are with face angle and path which "forgiveness" does not affect.

 

(4) Picking irons based on how far you hit them is probably not the best course of action if you want to optimize your ball-striking skill. Pay more attention to launch angle, especially in the longest irons where hybrids and shafts can really help. As long as you're confident you can launch it, you can dial yourself in with any type of iron. 

 

(5) Sole width is 10x more important than MOI if you're a steep swinger. 

 

.

Edited March 22, 2022 by MelloYello

[Red4282]

47 minutes ago, mudmarlin said:

Jordan Spieth plays the T100.  I highly doubt he would play them if he is getting the crazy inconsistent spin and distances you are talking about.  And he is playing for millions.  There are also a few men and a few women even playing the T200.  And pretty sure they do have a higher moi, it’s not just feel.

T100 isnt an a full hollow constuction through. The long irons do have a small cavity, but not exactly the same catagory as the p790. T200 is better comparison. I know some pros carry them in long irons as well but if there is a pro with a full set, its rare.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Red4282

[Joselo]

 

i went from a more blade MP59 to my current set of MP20 HMB, currently playing 3 to 9 iron

i enjoyed the change a lot except on the PW, i missed the style of the MP59

changed the PW to a 46* vokey to replace that one

i considered the TaylorMade model but couldnt part ways with mizuno irons

 

scores did not improved much due to that change, but working on putting and chipping has helped a lot

i did change from stiff to regular and could not be happier

Edited March 22, 2022 by Joselo

[DoughBack18]

2 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Oh, dont be mistaken… they will miss short…. But they will also miss long- hence the unpredictability. They just arent a more forgiving design, scientifically, data driven…. They dont have a lower cog, they dont have an increased blade size, all they have is a hollow construction face to raise ball speed. But that same construction is what leads to the inconsistencies with spin and speeds. They do give you the *impression* that they are more forgiving, as they mute the mishit to feel less harsh. All these references to PGA pros, Id like to know who on tour uses a Full set of hollow construction irons… 

Can I ask what makes you say that they don’t have a low COG? Every review and description I’ve seen for these going back go the 2017 version describes them as having a low center of gravity. 

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

Can I ask what makes you say that they don’t have a low COG? Every review and description I’ve seen for these going back go the 2017 version describes them as having a low center of gravity. 

Thats marketing. When its actually measured…. It isnt really that low-compared to other irons or even a traditonal iron.

[MattStrube]

6 hours ago, ob1soccer said:

how do u know how much bounce each iron has? is that listed on the specs page

Usually yes it is listed or you can measure it. 

[bvanlieu]

11 hours ago, Red4282 said:

T100 isnt an a full hollow constuction through. The long irons do have a small cavity, but not exactly the same catagory as the p790. T200 is better comparison. I know some pros carry them in long irons as well but if there is a pro with a full set, its rare.

 

Agreed, but the gains above an 8 iron are also diminishing as loft goes up, we all could just play a MB wedge with really no hurt other than turf interaction deltas. As tech trickles down the next gen of players may be using more of it and will be used to it, no different then how current players almost none use blades: they all grew up with APs or Pings etc...

 

I happen to game the P790s/770 in a blended set, coming from full CB P770s for 4+ years. Its not marketing: they do what they claim to do and help retain ball speed on off center hits.

 

I have the data for my swing (lots of LM time with several different clubs: 2 sets of CBs, 2 hollow types). The older CBs are great clubs and keep up just fine but I need to middle it more pure and simple. The 790s prefer to go strait-ish, harder to work but that's not a bad thing for my game. I seem to be in the minority at club WRX but I don't hit rockets and flyers that are not my fault (draw it too much, it goes a bit longer).  I do notice mis-hits retaining a few mph better ball speed. 

 

 

 

 

[DoughBack18]

8 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Thats marketing. When its actually measured…. It isnt really that low-compared to other irons or even a traditonal iron.

Again, where are you seeing this?? I’m not a huge MPF guy, but even according to them they CoG is lower on 790’s than every other TM iron, minus their true game improvements. So please let me know where you are seeing this data, thanks!

 

I agree very much with bvanlieu’s last couple sentences above. That is all!

[Hoyoymac]

I’ve gone the other way.  Had the Titleist AP3 irons in the bag for three years and liked them but the lofts were strong and had to take some long irons out of the bag and replace them with hybrids to get better launch and descent angle.  Had to add a wedge to fill yardage gaps as well.  

 

Switched to Corey Paul forged cavity back irons that were about the same size as the AP3s but the lofts were weaker, 9 iron same loft as previous AP3 Pitching wedge and they go the same distance.  Enjoyed the improved feel and more consistent distances.  

 

Switched from the Cavity Backs to Corey Paul Minimalist blades this year and have never been happier.  The feel, sound and flight is exactly what I want and the irons just look beautiful.  Was able to take a hybrid out and replace it with an iron.  The iron is more versatile for me than the hybrid was.  Yes they look smaller behind the ball but when you middle one it feels wonderful.

 

As other posters have said, play what you like that gives you the yardage gaps, trajectory, spin, descent angle, shot shape and fits your eye and game.

 

 

 

 

[Red4282]

2 hours ago, bvanlieu said:

 

Agreed, but the gains above an 8 iron are also diminishing as loft goes up, we all could just play a MB wedge with really no hurt other than turf interaction deltas. As tech trickles down the next gen of players may be using more of it and will be used to it, no different then how current players almost none use blades: they all grew up with APs or Pings etc...

 

I happen to game the P790s/770 in a blended set, coming from full CB P770s for 4+ years. Its not marketing: they do what they claim to do and help retain ball speed on off center hits.

 

I have the data for my swing (lots of LM time with several different clubs: 2 sets of CBs, 2 hollow types). The older CBs are great clubs and keep up just fine but I need to middle it more pure and simple. The 790s prefer to go strait-ish, harder to work but that's not a bad thing for my game. I seem to be in the minority at club WRX but I don't hit rockets and flyers that are not my fault (draw it too much, it goes a bit longer).  I do notice mis-hits retaining a few mph better ball speed. 

 

 

 

 

yes you are correct in after 35* it really doesnt matter as far as moi and perimeter weighting is concerned. Im also not talking about the cavity back vs blade argument either, this is strictly a hollow headed thin faced, distance iron vs “traditional” (mb or cb). I have no doubt the p790s offer better ball speed on misses in the long and mid irons- and thats how we define forgiveness with drivers, but it shouldnt be how its defined with irons. With irons its all about where the end result is, dispersion, and predictability, and from my experience, tour validation and what few tests out there suggest, the data screams- retaining ball speed doesnt translate to better dispersion unfortunately.

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Again, where are you seeing this?? I’m not a huge MPF guy, but even according to them they CoG is lower on 790’s than every other TM iron, minus their true game improvements. So please let me know where you are seeing this data, thanks!

 

I agree very much with bvanlieu’s last couple sentences above. That is all!

the current 790s have an actual vcog of .780. Its really mid cog relative to all other irons out there, certainly not high, but not low either. Mizuno mp20 blades, mp4 blades have a lower cog. So much for all that tech. Heck, a 2006 callaway xforged one peice forging has an actual cog of .680.  
I get it, 790s can make the game fun, they look good feel great and powerful, but in my opinion they arent any better than traditional irons, forgiveness wise. 

Edited March 23, 2022 by Red4282