Is putter fitting overrated?

[5hort5tuff]

I think a putter is a) the easiest putter to fit b) the least important club to fit. 

 

Many people may disagree but many of the best putters I know have never even heard of a putter fitting. Never sniffed a putter aid. It really is mostly about reading greens and comfort with the stick. 

 

My opinion of course. 

[Roejye]

I had a putter fitting at my full bag fitting and I found out that my putter's loft, lie, height was bang on, but it was face balanced and my stroke has an arc. I doubt spending $300 on a shaft for a putter will make much difference. I think it would help with finding something that would fit your stroke and then you can go by feel.

[cav5]

Just learn to putt. It’s like swinging a hammer. It doesn’t matter how heavy or long or what the handle is. Just do it cause you know how. Until then fitting will do nothing. It’s not as complicated as people want to make it. Using the hammer example you can have your body all contorted maybe hanging with your head sideways and still hit the nail in. 

[North Butte]

10 hours ago, mantan said:

My putting is atrocious according to my stats. The Grint app breaks down your handicap by element.  My driving accuracy and GIR are at a level for a player with half my handicap.

 

But my putts are at the level of a player with a 12 stroke higher handicap.  I think part of it is a horrible short game which I've worked really hard to improve.  My terrible chipping/pitching doesn't give me a lot of chances for an easy 1-putt.  That putts a ton of pressure on my game to not 2-putt.  But I think being a stronger putter would take some pressure off my short game.

 

I looked at the Artisan place referenced in the thread.  $300 to get fit and probably at least that much for a putter is a big pill to swallow.

 

 

If the app you're using to track your putting is working correctly, how close or far you hit the ball to the hole should not affect its analysis of your putting. That's why one does modern analytics instead of just tracking useless stats like "putts per round" or "putts per GIR". 

 

You never want to be making decisions about committing tons of money or effort into improving putting if you truly believe the root problem is bad short game. Being unable to chip or pitch the ball anywhere near the hole is going to cause problems than a $1,000 putter and 1,000 hours of putting practice will never cure...because it's not a putting problem.

 

What sort of putting stats is The Grint reporting to you? And what sort of short-game stats. 

 

P.S. I just went and looked at the putting stats offered by The Grint. They are all based on putts per round and putts per GIR, junk stats. Do not make ANY decision about spending money or allocating your practice time to putting based on what The Grint is telling you about your putting.  

 

Any putative analysis of putting that is not based on the distance of each putt (or least the distance of each first putt) is worse than useless, that sort of "analysis" is completely misleading. Without accounting for distance, you'll think 3-putting from 50 feet is the same thing as 3-putting from 5 feet. If you went an entire round without ever having a first putt inside 10 feet, 35 putts in a round would be great. In a round with half a dozen first putts inside 3 feet, 35 putts would be awful. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by North Butte

[5hort5tuff]

9 hours ago, Roejye said:

I had a putter fitting at my full bag fitting and I found out that my putter's loft, lie, height was bang on, but it was face balanced and my stroke has an arc. I doubt spending $300 on a shaft for a putter will make much difference. I think it would help with finding something that would fit your stroke and then you can go by feel.

 

This is what I'm getting at. With all other clubs there are so many factors for a fitting.  Head shape, weight, loft, shaft weight, flex, launch, etc etc. Then swing conditions, AoA etc. All of these things can be taken into account for putting...but it is truly overkill.  The swing is small...the components less important.  

 

I think people get fit for putters and find confidence in their equipment, and that's okay. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by 5hort5tuff

[MattM97]

2 hours ago, cav5 said:

Just learn to putt. It’s like swinging a hammer. It doesn’t matter how heavy or long or what the handle is. Just do it cause you know how. Until then fitting will do nothing. It’s not as complicated as people want to make it. Using the hammer example you can have your body all contorted maybe hanging with your head sideways and still hit the nail in. 

 

But you need the right hammer for the right job. You wouldn't use an 8oz ball peen hammer to do a framing job would you? Or I guess you would cause it's just a hammer after all. 

[Esox]

Never had a putter fitting. I spent most of the 70's and 80's and half of the 90's with either a Wilson 8802 or a Ping Anser in the bag. When I tried my first face balanced putter (Tommy Armour ZAAP) my putting confidence improved dramatically. Moved on to a face balanced Mizuno Tour 940 when my son managed to lose my ZAAP. Now I am playing a Mizuno MCraft III in blue.

If putter fitting would have put me into a face balanced putter in the 70's, I would have to say it's worth it.........

[Golfer4Life]

I think so. To me the putter is the one club which I have a close relationship with.

 

If it doesn't look good or feel good, is not going to work regardless of what a machine tells me.

[me05501]

29 minutes ago, Golfer4Life said:

I think so. To me the putter is the one club which I have a close relationship with.

 

If it doesn't look good or feel good, is not going to work regardless of what a machine tells me.

This is poor logic though. You could get fit into a putter that also looks and feels great. It’s not one or the other. 

[J_Tizzle]

I think fittings of any type are some of the most important things you can do in your golf game if you want to shoot your best scores.  I really want to get a wedge fitting to see what grinds I should be playing.

 

 

[5hort5tuff]

31 minutes ago, J_Tizzle said:

I think fittings of any type are some of the most important things you can do in your golf game if you want to shoot your best scores.  I really want to get a wedge fitting to see what grinds I should be playing.

 

 

 

Better find a place that does some nice outdoor fittings too. You don't hit your wedges off of a green plastic mat on the course.  

[Roejye]

2 hours ago, 5hort5tuff said:

 

This is what I'm getting at. With all other clubs there are so many factors for a fitting.  Head shape, weight, loft, shaft weight, flex, launch, etc etc. Then swing conditions, AoA etc. All of these things can be taken into account for putting...but it is truly overkill.  The swing is small...the components less important.  

 

I think people get fit for putters and find confidence in their equipment, and that's okay. 

 

I definitely agree with the components not really mattering, I found out my putter has a couple of cracks in the hosel. I would never knowingly swing another club with cracks in the hosel. In fact, I took it out for the other putter I had, but the next round I had it felt like I was putting worse. Looking at my stats for the round I had 2.3 putts per hole that round, at my home course. So I put the one with the cracks back in and I putted much better later that day, on a course I've only played once before, with 1.9 putts per hole. I know there's small sample size and a lot of variance, but it didn't feel right.

[J_Tizzle]

19 minutes ago, 5hort5tuff said:

 

Better find a place that does some nice outdoor fittings too. You don't hit your wedges off of a green plastic mat on the course.  

 

Oh 100000%.  Wedges are so feel to me and I have a pretty good understanding of what I like/need grind-wise, I'd just like to try out different shafts to get the launch/spin dialed in.  Especially since I carry a 62* wedge I don't need anything crazy in my 54*/58* for more playability.  

[Cactus Jack]

I have access to both SAM and Quintic. I've spent a lot of time on both. I think formal putter fitting is worth trying, but I don't think it's the optimal way to fit a putter. 

 

My competitive nature results in SAM providing little, if any, value. No matter what putter I try, I will manipulate my stroke to guarantee green bars across the board. I turn a fitting into a video game session and basically sabotage the process. BUT, I do get green bars 🙂 ! 

 

I enjoy Quintic, and while I can still manipulate the results similar to SAM, I can do so less. However, after a few putts the data becomes a bit meaningless. In my case Quintic recommended less loft and a flatter lie. While both adjustments resulted in better numbers on the system, the adjustments are so immaterial they had little real life meaning. However, I will say Quintic did shine a bright light on putter CG implications. For example, back weighted mallets, which SAM said I should play, launched the ball much higher than a more traditional blade. 

 

In my opinion the best approach to putter fitting is running a strokes gained assessment similar to how the spy site tests their putters. I run a series of putts from 5, 10, and 20 feet with different putters, and allow the quantitative data to send me in the correct direction. I then use my qualitative judgement to refine the results, and if needed, may seek out a fitting system to confirm my findings. This is just a fancy way to say I hit a lot of putts with the goal of holing the ball out in as few strokes as possible. 

[mantan]

9 hours ago, North Butte said:

If the app you're using to track your putting is working correctly, how close or far you hit the ball to the hole should not affect its analysis of your putting. That's why one does modern analytics instead of just tracking useless stats like "putts per round" or "putts per GIR". 

 

You never want to be making decisions about committing tons of money or effort into improving putting if you truly believe the root problem is bad short game. Being unable to chip or pitch the ball anywhere near the hole is going to cause problems than a $1,000 putter and 1,000 hours of putting practice will never cure...because it's not a putting problem.

 

What sort of putting stats is The Grint reporting to you? And what sort of short-game stats. 

 

P.S. I just went and looked at the putting stats offered by The Grint. They are all based on putts per round and putts per GIR, junk stats. Do not make ANY decision about spending money or allocating your practice time to putting based on what The Grint is telling you about your putting.  

 

Any putative analysis of putting that is not based on the distance of each putt (or least the distance of each first putt) is worse than useless, that sort of "analysis" is completely misleading. Without accounting for distance, you'll think 3-putting from 50 feet is the same thing as 3-putting from 5 feet. If you went an entire round without ever having a first putt inside 10 feet, 35 putts in a round would be great. In a round with half a dozen first putts inside 3 feet, 35 putts would be awful. 

 

You're spot on. Even with the Pro version, it'll only track individual shots, which I haven't' been doing, but need to start. 

 

I know just from the old Dave Pelz days that my short game is an issue more than putting. I just don't consistently give myself easy one putts with my short game. And I'm not good enough to give myself a ton of makeable birdie putts.  Short game has been my focus for the last few months.  It seems more of a problem than putting.  2 years ago I had a legit putting problem. I had the yips, which made even 2 putting an adventure.  My instructor switched me to the claw grip which fixed that problem. But I think you'r'e right, it's not a putting problem right now.

Edited June 11, 2022 by mantan

[North Butte]

41 minutes ago, mantan said:

 

You spot on. Even with the Pro version, it'll only track individual shots, which I havent' been doing, but need to start. 

 

I know just from the old Dave Pelz days that my short game is an issue more than putting. I just don't consistently give myself easy one putts with my short game. And I'm not good enough to give myself a ton of makeable birdie putts.  Short game has been my focus for the last few months.  It seems more of a problem than putting.  2 years ago I had a legit putting problem. I had the yips, which made even 2 putting an adventure.  My instructor switched me to the claw grip which fixed that problem. But I think you'r'e right, it's not a putting problem right now.

I use Strokes Gained to evaluate my rounds and without it I might feel like my putting has taken a nose-dive this past year. I've improved my driving and approach play so I'm hitting 9, 10, 11 greens per round instead of 6 or 7 which leads to tons of 30-50 foot putts (I haven't improved enough to be hitting it close from 150 yards!). So in terms of number of putts, it's a putt or so per round more than I use to have. But with so man of them being long putts after GIR instead of short putts after missed greens and chipping I'm putting slightly better than before in Strokes Gained terms. 

[Cactus Jack]

I just came across this regarding lie angle.  
 

[Phillykgolf]

7 hours ago, Golfer4Life said:

I think so. To me the putter is the one club which I have a close relationship with.

 

If it doesn't look good or feel good, is not going to work regardless of what a machine tells me.

If you are aiming better, hitting line better, and hitting speed better with a fit putter, use it. Don’t like the look, respectfully, get over it. But, that would assume you want to get better scores. If you’re out to do whatever, use what you want. 
 

Getting fit for all clubs is a good idea. Putting isn’t just between the ears. I’ve seen many people aim putters differently. Loft and controlling spin is important for distance control. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Phillykgolf

[Golfer4Life]

1 hour ago, Phillykgolf said:

If you are aiming better, hitting line better, and hitting speed better with a fit putter, use it. Don’t like the look, respectfully, get over it. But, that would assume you want to get better scores. If you’re out to do whatever, use what you want. 
 

Getting fit for all clubs is a good idea. Putting isn’t just between the ears. I’ve seen many people aim putters differently. Loft and controlling spin is important for distance control. 

Well, is my opinion based on my own experience, but thanks. 

 

 

[robcha]

This thread actually convinced me to get a putter fitting so I booked one today at Club Champion. 

 

Only prior knowledge was that I had a slightly arced putting stroke. Games the Odyssey Eleven Mallet for a while before switching to the Tri-Hot 5k Triple Wide (current gamer). 

 

Initial specs of my putter was 2.5 degrees of loft, 72 lie, 35 inch.

 

Turns out general stuff is not bad but I do hit down on the ball by 1.5 degrees. Also my eyeline is a little below the ball causing me to get the putter toe up (misses toe side). 

 

Overall, kept the same Tri-Hot but adjusted loft to 4 degrees and 1 degree flat. Also recommended cutting it from 35' to 34'. 

 

Was a little pessimistic going into it but came out pleasantly surprised. The ball no longer skidded when it came off the face and has such a nice roll now. 

 

**They couldn't adjust my length due to not having any grips so I decided to make a pit stop at PGASS. I wasn't aware but it looks like there was a weight at the tip of the shaft in the 5K and the guy didn't know either so he cut right into/through it. My normal grip is a SuperStroke grip and they randomly had a 50g weight things to put in for free. The weight they took out was about 30g so it's another 20g but I kinda like the way it feels and when I rolled it, still felt relatively the same so I guess no complaints. 

[me05501]

Putter fitting/adjustment two weeks ago. Personal best 75 today (with no gimmies). 
 

Your mileage may vary, but I’m glad I took the detour. 

[Double Mocha Man]

On 6/11/2022 at 4:10 PM, Golfer4Life said:

Well, it's my opinion based on my own experience, but thanks.

 

Just for the record, @Phillykgolf has a +2 handicap.  I am a proponent of using the clubs that work, no matter how butt ugly...

[Golfer4Life]

24 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Just for the record, @Phillykgolf has a +2 handicap.  I am a proponent of using the clubs that work, no matter how butt ugly...

Good for him. I do not know what that has to do with anything, but alas.

 

I agree with you, but he wants to tell me I'm wrong because I don't agree with his "opinion".

 

He doesn't know my game, so it is pretty arrogant from him to assume anything. 

 

For a new member he already made my blocked list, so I don't really care about anything else he has to say.

 

I stand by 14 handicap opinion, thanks!

Edited June 13, 2022 by Golfer4Life

[Phillykgolf]

38 minutes ago, Golfer4Life said:

Good for him. I do not know what that has to do with anything, but alas.

 

I agree with you, but he wants to tell me I'm wrong because I don't agree with his "opinion".

 

He doesn't know my game, so it is pretty arrogant from him to assume anything. 

 

For a new member he already made my blocked list, so I don't really care about anything else he has to say.

 

I stand by 14 handicap opinion, thanks!

Hahahaha, wow. Arrogance huh? We are in a topic about fitting and he says he doesn’t agree with fitting. Tell that to anyone who plays high level golf. But, Like I said, if you want to play your way, go for it.

[Double Mocha Man]

53 minutes ago, Golfer4Life said:

Good for him. I do not know what that has to do with anything, but alas.

 

I agree with you, but he wants to tell me I'm wrong because I don't agree with his "opinion".

 

He doesn't know my game, so it is pretty arrogant from him to assume anything. 

 

For a new member he already made my blocked list, so I don't really care about anything else he has to say.

 

I stand by 14 handicap opinion, thanks!

 

The guy you blocked is the Director of Instruction at a local course.  And he's very good at what he does.

 

 

[cav5]

On 6/11/2022 at 9:45 AM, MattM97 said:

 

But you need the right hammer for the right job. You wouldn't use an 8oz ball peen hammer to do a framing job would you? Or I guess you would cause it's just a hammer after all. 

well you're talking about different jobs now. i think its obvious my point was simply driving a nail through a 2x4 and any hammer at lowes or home depot would do.

[North Butte]

The question is simply whether a highly technical, extremely precise and detailed fitting taking place under purely artificial conditions result in a putter that saves you strokes compared to one chosen by an imprecise, non-technical trial and error process under real-world conditions. There's probably not one answer to that question that's universal for every golfer.

My suspicion is the highly technical fitting under artificial conditions will more quickly hone in on a putter that gives the best chance of making straight or straightish 6-footers. And the real-world test will take longer but may do a better job of identifying the putter that provides the best touch and feel on mid-to-long putts or those with tons of break. 

[Golfer4Life]

16 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

The guy you blocked is the Director of Instruction at a local course.  And he's very good at what he does.

 

 

Great! So why you people keep bothering me with it?

 

I'm not going to change my mind, so live and let live.

[me05501]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

The question is simply whether a highly technical, extremely precise and detailed fitting taking place under purely artificial conditions result in a putter that saves you strokes compared to one chosen by an imprecise, non-technical trial and error process under real-world conditions. There's probably not one answer to that question that's universal for every golfer.

My suspicion is the highly technical fitting under artificial conditions will more quickly hone in on a putter that gives the best chance of making straight or straightish 6-footers. And the real-world test will take longer but may do a better job of identifying the putter that provides the best touch and feel on mid-to-long putts or those with tons of break. 

 

It seems to me that a properly-fit putter that increases the user's odds of having success in the "real world" test. 

 

If you read putts right but can't start them on the line you read you're likely to start doubting your reads.

 

If you're consistently missing the sweet spot of your putter by 1/4" you're likely to start doubting your distance control. 

 

For me there's value in having one less thing to question/doubt. I'm happy to know that my putter is not the thing holding me back. 

 

I'd never say it's for everyone since clearly a lot of people succeed without a custom fit putter.

 

Then again, maybe some of those people adapt their stance to fit a putter that "looks good" or "feels good" to them when they could putt more comfortably with one that is 2" longer or 2* more upright. 

Edited June 13, 2022 by me05501

[nvr3putt]

On 6/9/2022 at 11:22 AM, greenfieldgolfer said:

After watching a TXG putter fitting, I'm not that convinced at the usefulness of a putter fitting. At the end of the day, you are simply rolling a ball with a club. 

The greatest putters like Tiger, Brad Faxon, Seve, Crenshaw, etc. all used a very minimalistic blade putter with a steel shaft and thin grip. 

 

I'm sure the length and lie can be optimized to a golfer, but at the same time, do we really need to spend hundreds of dollars on a graphite shaft for a putter? That seems like a marketing gimmick to me. 

 

Brad Faxon actually mentioned a drill he did with Rory when he had some putting struggles. During the drill he made Rory putt with his 3 wood and Rory was effortlessly draining putts. The whole point of that drill was people are overcomplicating the art of putting. 

 

I completely agree with you here. Putting is 99% dependent on keeping the putter face within 1 degree of perpendicular to your putting line.

God help you if you believe getting fitted is going to make a difference on the course.