Lack of Courtesy/Etiquette on Course

[Double Mocha Man]

26 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... LOL I played with three early 20 somethings and two were on their phones off and on but the third was literally buried in it and never saw anything other than his own shots. I asked him on the 10th tee if he had to give up his phone or his car ... and that was as far as I got before he jumped in with "OMG my car for sure. I can uber or get my friends to drive me but I would be completely lost without my phone!" I asked what is he looking at and he said "Everything!" I asked like what and he said "Dude, you know, like everything". 🤦‍♂️

... I do get it though. My generation grew up with one phone in the kitchen and this generation grew up with a mobile computer in their hands as toddlers. Just a completely different world experience and unfair for one to judge the other. 

 

I was, of course, kidding about reading your post on my phone, on the golf course.  I do carry my phone in my pocket and almost never use it on the course.  Already too much to do with keeping pace, watching others hit, watching that deer meander across the fairway, planning out my shot and conversing with others. 

 

On the course the phone isn't additive; it's subtractive.  And it looks rather silly to be a slave to your phone...

[chisag]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I do carry my phone in my pocket and almost never use it on the course.  Already too much to do with keeping pace, watching others hit, watching that deer meander across the fairway, planning out my shot and conversing with others.

 

 

... Right there with you. So much wildlife in Phoenix. Every now and then I remember I have my phone in my bag when playing. I have been watching Ravens that look like they are in a science fiction film tilting their heads to the sky and freezing in the position. Happened several rounds before I remembered I had my phone and waiting on the next tee I looked it up and it is a mating ritual to attract females. Then back in the bag. 

[TwistedSister]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:00 PM, acegolfer said:

Old golfer here. I was taught to let faster player behind me play through. But it seems young golfers are never taught this. 

Depends what is in front of you. 

[sandpounder]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:46 AM, chisag said:

 

 

... I played with a very respectful high school player last year and he joined us as a single. Pretty good etiquette all in all but on his phone the entire front 9 and it caused a few hold ups but certainly nothing egregious. I asked him what he was looking at on his phone and he said "just friends and stuff" and I made a suggestion. Try the back 9 with his phone in the bag and he might have a different and perhaps enlightening experience. To my surprise he agreed. 

... There are 2 hawks that live on the course (his home high school course) and the female is huge. He got to see her descend on a rodent, kill it and fly off and was amazed as he had never seen a hawk on the course. When I told him I have probably played 500 rounds there and never not seen the hawks he seemed perplexed and said "how can that be?" and I replied your phone has your complete attention. It was like blinders had been lifted. He was a sophomore and all his Jr/Sr friends are on their phones all round so it was just how he learned to play. 

... Granted he was a very polite kid to begin with and serious about his game so he was open to a new experience. I shot a 69 and that certainly helped with him respecting me but I was 68 at the time and the perfect old man to ignore for a high school kid. He said he thought being off his phone might help his concentration in matches. Us older folk don't understand how important a phone is to the younger generation and for him to say he was going to give it up is a huge concession and I hope he followed through. Great kid and I really enjoyed playing with him but nobody had asked him about his phone so how would he know? 

That kid can see as many hawks as he wants on YouTube.

[chisag]

On 7/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, sandpounder said:

That kid can see as many hawks as he wants on YouTube.

 

... Just like folks of all ages holding up their phone and recording a live concert. You get one chance to experience the spectacle live, taking everything in from the crowd to the musicians and the entire stage. Watching it on a small phone screen while there in person is just mind boggling to me. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by chisag

[sui generis]

32 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... Just like folks of all ages holding up heir phone and recording a live concert. You get one chance to experience the spectacle live, taking everything in from the crowd to the musicians n the entire stage. Watching it on a small phone screen while there in person  is just mind boggling to me. 

 

There must be a place in the ether where young people ceaselessly complain about old people ceaselessly complaining about young people. 😜

[chisag]

15 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

There must be a place in the ether where young people ceaselessly complain about old people ceaselessly complaining about young people. 😜

 

... I would never complain about young people of any generation, let alone the current ones that grew up in a technology era we never experienced. Almost all of those on their phones at the Shery Crow/ZZ Top concert were not young people, they were Boomers. Couples side by side holding up their phones and staring at the screen, not even looking at the stage. So this is not just being on your phone but being at a live show and turning it into something they could do at home, watch it on their phone. And to be clear I am not complaining as people are free to use their time however they choose, it is just mind boggling to me people would not enjoy all a live show offers and take it all in. My 30yr old son told me something a few years ago that I thought was wise beyond his age. Spend your money on experiences, not things. Ymmv ...

[caniac6]

9 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

... I would never complain about young people of any generation, let alone the current ones that grew up in a technology era we never experienced. Almost all of those on their phones at the Shery Crow/ZZ Top concert were not young people, they were Boomers. Couples side by side holding up their phones and staring at the screen, not even looking at the stage. So this is not just being on your phone but being at a live show and turning it into something they could do at home, watch it on their phone. And to be clear I am not complaining as people are free to use their time however they choose, it is just mind boggling to me people would not enjoy all a live show offers and take it all in. My 30yr old son told me something a few years ago that I thought was wise beyond his age. Spend your money on experiences, not things. Ymmv ...

Saw Paul McCartney on his latest tour, and I couldn’t believe how the cell phone has become a necessary piece of concert equipment. Glad I’m old enough to appreciate the experience and music in the moment.

[sandpounder]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Just like folks of all ages holding up heir phone and recording a live concert. You get one chance to experience the spectacle live, taking everything in from the crowd to the musicians n the entire stage. Watching it on a small phone screen while there in person  is just mind boggling to me. 

I agree. My round yesterday included the rescue of a box turtle stopped and dormant on a cement cart path.  Took the little critter to better woods & bushes.  Nature is abundant on golf courses.  Sam, you are a romantic.  BTW, shot an 80 on a new course (Glen Ivy in Corona).  I live right on the coast in Palos Verdes only a 1/2 mile from Trump National.  It is 70* here and in Corona it is 98* which is only an hour drive inland.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Just like folks of all ages holding up heir phone and recording a live concert. You get one chance to experience the spectacle live, taking everything in from the crowd to the musicians n the entire stage. Watching it on a small phone screen while there in person  is just mind boggling to me. 

 

Several years ago I went to the Columbia River Gorge to photograph a full solar eclipse.  As I recall it lasted about a minute and a half.  For a minute and 20 seconds I was looking through my viewfinder.  If I had the chance to do it over I would get in a lot more "eyeball" time.  Remember, during the phase of totality you can look directly at the sun.

[StudentGolfer4]

The difference between old and young people on their phones at events/concerts. The young people are recording the show on their phone as they watch the concert. The old people are watching the concert through their phone just hoping it doesn’t get lost “in the cloud” 😂. 
 

Mostly kidding. Like all technology, the smartphone has resulted in some good and some bad. I’m old enough to remember my parents giving me a map of the city when I got my first car, but also young enough to never need to use it because of the smartphone. 

[alittleoverpar]

Since I started this topic with a negative experience, I thought I would share a positive one.  Yesterday I was finishing up a round and was on the 17th tee.  There was a young man just walking on to the 16th green to putt out.  There was no one in front of me and I was walking.  He was in a cart by himself so I knew that he would likely be waiting on me.  I went ahead and hit my tee shot and then waived him over after he putted out.  I asked him if he wanted to play through and he said thanks, and yes that he would like to.  He made a polite comment about my tee shot and then hit his shot.  He thanked me again and played on.  He kept his pace up on 17 and 18 and I didn't have to wait on him.

 

He was a very polite young man.

[betarhoalphadelta]

On the course I only use my phone for entering scores. So it comes out at the end of a hole, scores go in, and it goes back into my pocket. Yesterday's round I realized my wife texted me but it wasn't anything critical, so I responded about 4 holes later lol. 

 

For concerts, I wonder for how many people it's because they can't see. I often wonder the same about people feel claustrophobic in crowds. I'm tall enough to see over everyone whether at a concert or in a crowd, so I've never felt the need to hold up my phone above everyone else's head just so I get an unobstructed view; I've already got it. 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, alittleoverpar said:

He was a very polite young man.

 

We are out there...

[DaddySwagMaster]

Since my son died in 2014 I’ve averaged well over 100 rounds a year since until this year. I’ve held memberships at three different clubs during this time frame. In June I dropped my membership at my club and have only played a handful of times since the end of June. My last round was September 16th and I honestly don’t miss the game whatsoever. Interestingly maybe only to me is that it’s not how good or bad my game is (I’m a 3 handicap) because I shot a personal best 67 as recently as April and had my only hole in one a year ago. 
 

Why have I given up the game basically?  What everyone is talking about here basically. When I go to the golf course I average a 3 1/2 round as a foursome. But when I started showing up on Sunday afternoons at a private club, and end up waiting on every shot because of groups in front of us the game no longer is any fun. 
 

I’ve played in countless tournaments where you wait on every shot and I find it fascinating how many avid golfers who enter and compete in these tournaments just expect the 5+ hour round and even embrace it. Meanwhile I’ve actually been told by my GM and other golfers to “slow down, you play too fast.”  
 

I’m sorry, but I’m done accepting slow play as normal and the last few times I tried playing at my club and got held up I simply walked off the course rather than waiting. 
 

I stopped entering tournaments because of slow play, and I do consider it a form of gamesmanship by slower golfers to slow play the competition in order to gain a competitive advantage. I’ve had countless conversations with leadership at the club, as well as with other golf organizations that run tournaments. The overall attitude by the leaders in the golf industry is to bow to revenue at the expense of any sort of enforcement of pace of play rules whatsoever. 
 

It’s funny the comments about younger golfers being the problem at golf courses because I actually take issue with retirees who feel they are entitled to the entire golf course, including dictating to starters and golf courses that the married retired couple play by themselves, even with a full tee sheet on a Saturday morning, and literally don’t care that they made the 3 groups behind them wait on every shot for 18 holes because they refused to pair up to make a foursome. I actually had one retired man with his wife scream at me and the starter when the starter told him that they were playing with me. He literally screamed at the starter, “THE HELL WE ARE!!!  WE EITHER PLAY ALONE OR WE’LL GO HOME!!!

 

Honestly, I just decided that I got tired of getting angry at other golfers who were too selfish to consider anyone else that might possibly enter their little world on the golf course. And I refuse to accept, “I paid good money for this round of golf. I will do whatever I want so go screw yourself.”

 

I just have decided that there are a lot of other things in life that are more important and I won’t waste any more time and money getting angry at rude and inconsiderate golfers. 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

I just have decided that there are a lot of other things in life that are more important and I won’t waste any more time and money getting angry at rude and inconsiderate golfers. 

 

Congratulations on your epiphany and good luck in your future endeavors. 👍

[sui generis]

9 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Congratulations on your epiphany and good luck in your future endeavors. 👍

 

Pinkleball might be just the ticket for this poor soul. 😉

[Dpavs]

Something to\I ponder... foursomes may get more golfers on the course at the same time but is one foursome really faster than two groups of two?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Dpavs said:

Something to\I ponder... foursomes may get more golfers on the course at the same time but is one foursome really faster than two groups of two?

 

Two groups of two is faster, yes, but fractionally so.

[rogolf]

Just now, iacas said:

 

Two groups of two is faster, yes, but fractionally so.

However, two groups of two amongst foursomes won't play any faster than the foursomes.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, rogolf said:

However, two groups of two amongst foursomes won't play any faster than the foursomes.

 

Of course.

[DaddySwagMaster]

1 hour ago, Dpavs said:

Something to\I ponder... foursomes may get more golfers on the course at the same time but is one foursome really faster than two groups of two?

you have a limited amount of real estate to work with.  18 holes on a golf course, with no more than 2 groups on average (maybe 3 on a par 5, and no more than 1 on a par 3) on any hole at any particular time.

 

I'd look at this issue this way.  If you had 36 twosomes on one course, and 36 foursomes on another course, which course would have a faster pace of play, provided no group was waiting on any group in front of them (an mathematically impossibility honestly)?

[DaddySwagMaster]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

Pinkleball might be just the ticket for this poor soul. 😉

Another activity or social gathering where people were actually glad to see you, and encouraged you in life, as well as within that organization.  Where people were actually there for you when you needed help, and actually cared about you as a human being.  Frankly, golf, and the organizations and people that participate in the game, one way or another, are the furthest thing from what I describe above.

[rogolf]

4 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

Another activity or social gathering where people were actually glad to see you, and encouraged you in life, as well as within that organization.  Where people were actually there for you when you needed help, and actually cared about you as a human being.  Frankly, golf, and the organizations and people that participate in the game, one way or another, are the furthest thing from what I describe above.

I have found golf and its organizations exactly as what you described (as bolded above). It’s all in one’s own approach, willingness to contribute and expectations. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by rogolf

[nsxguy]

43 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I have found golf and its organizations exactly as what you described. It’s all in one’s own approach, willingness to contribute and expectations. 

 

You DO mean the part about "Where people were actually there for you when you needed help and actually cared about you as a human being", yes ? If so, I would tend to agree.

 

And I'm betting those pinkleball (sic) players are pretty damn competitive. Competition often brings out the worst in people.

 

And those "oldtimers" he complained about earlier ? I find the older guys I play along with are the faster players, not the slower ones - although there are a couple who do play slowly.

[sui generis]

3 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

Another activity or social gathering where people were actually glad to see you, and encouraged you in life, as well as within that organization.  Where people were actually there for you when you needed help, and actually cared about you as a human being.  Frankly, golf, and the organizations and people that participate in the game, one way or another, are the furthest thing from what I describe above.

 

Don't let the door hit you in the *** on your way out. 🙄

[rogolf]

13 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You DO mean the part about "Where people were actually there for you when you needed help and actually cared about you as a human being", yes ? If so, I would tend to agree.

 

And I'm betting those pinkleball (sic) players are pretty damn competitive. Competition often brings out the worst in people.

 

And those "oldtimers" he complained about earlier ? I find the older guys I play along with are the faster players, not the slower ones - although there are a couple who do play slowly.

Yes, that is exactly the part I was referring to! (tried to make it clearer by editing my original post)

Edited November 6, 2023 by rogolf

[Yacho]

6 hours ago, DaddySwagMaster said:

Another activity or social gathering where people were actually glad to see you, and encouraged you in life, as well as within that organization.  Where people were actually there for you when you needed help, and actually cared about you as a human being.  Frankly, golf, and the organizations and people that participate in the game, one way or another, are the furthest thing from what I describe above.

 

Um, yeah...   sorry to hear that you feel this way about golf.  My experience is exactly the opposite. I picked up the game 3 years ago, and I now play regularly with over 15 people I've met on the course mostly through random pairings whom I now consider friends.  We exchange phone numbers because we recognize each other as good people, and want to continue hanging out as golfers and more.  Our families now know each other, and we get together outside of the confines of the golf course on the regular.  They do care about me as a human being, are actually there for me when I need help, do encourage me in my life and personal endeavors, and are, believe it or not, actually happy to see me, as I am them.

 

That is, to say nothing of the vast majority of apparently "rude and inconsiderate golfers" that will drop what they're doing mid-day to answer my noob questions about golf and equipment on this forum without expecting so much as a "thank you" in return. 

 

I do hope you find what you're seeking, and that your world becomes brighter because of it.  But I have found what lightens my life recently, and it just so happens to be golf, and the people that come with it.

[oldmotor]

On 11/5/2023 at 5:42 PM, DaddySwagMaster said:

Since my son died in 2014 I’ve averaged well over 100 rounds a year since until this year. I’ve held memberships at three different clubs during this time frame. In June I dropped my membership at my club and have only played a handful of times since the end of June. My last round was September 16th and I honestly don’t miss the game whatsoever. Interestingly maybe only to me is that it’s not how good or bad my game is (I’m a 3 handicap) because I shot a personal best 67 as recently as April and had my only hole in one a year ago. 
 

Why have I given up the game basically?  What everyone is talking about here basically. When I go to the golf course I average a 3 1/2 round as a foursome. But when I started showing up on Sunday afternoons at a private club, and end up waiting on every shot because of groups in front of us the game no longer is any fun. 
 

I’ve played in countless tournaments where you wait on every shot and I find it fascinating how many avid golfers who enter and compete in these tournaments just expect the 5+ hour round and even embrace it. Meanwhile I’ve actually been told by my GM and other golfers to “slow down, you play too fast.”  
 

I’m sorry, but I’m done accepting slow play as normal and the last few times I tried playing at my club and got held up I simply walked off the course rather than waiting. 
 

I stopped entering tournaments because of slow play, and I do consider it a form of gamesmanship by slower golfers to slow play the competition in order to gain a competitive advantage. I’ve had countless conversations with leadership at the club, as well as with other golf organizations that run tournaments. The overall attitude by the leaders in the golf industry is to bow to revenue at the expense of any sort of enforcement of pace of play rules whatsoever. 
 

It’s funny the comments about younger golfers being the problem at golf courses because I actually take issue with retirees who feel they are entitled to the entire golf course, including dictating to starters and golf courses that the married retired couple play by themselves, even with a full tee sheet on a Saturday morning, and literally don’t care that they made the 3 groups behind them wait on every shot for 18 holes because they refused to pair up to make a foursome. I actually had one retired man with his wife scream at me and the starter when the starter told him that they were playing with me. He literally screamed at the starter, “THE HELL WE ARE!!!  WE EITHER PLAY ALONE OR WE’LL GO HOME!!!

 

Honestly, I just decided that I got tired of getting angry at other golfers who were too selfish to consider anyone else that might possibly enter their little world on the golf course. And I refuse to accept, “I paid good money for this round of golf. I will do whatever I want so go screw yourself.”

 

I just have decided that there are a lot of other things in life that are more important and I won’t waste any more time and money getting angry at rude and inconsiderate golfers. 

Good luck in your future endeavors.

[caniac6]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:43 AM, DaddySwagMaster said:

Another activity or social gathering where people were actually glad to see you, and encouraged you in life, as well as within that organization.  Where people were actually there for you when you needed help, and actually cared about you as a human being.  Frankly, golf, and the organizations and people that participate in the game, one way or another, are the furthest thing from what I describe above.

Not where I play. In fact, the group I play with is exactly like the people described above.