LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Dutch1008]

41 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

LIV may have its own issues with re-signing the guys whose contracts are coming up. 

 

Now that they game Rahm $500MM or whatever, will they need to do the same for Bryson Brooks and other key players?

 

I can’t imagine they want to keep spending 100-500MM every time they need to sign a big player. 

 

That's going to be fascinating. Like an NFL offseason when multiple top flight QBs / WRs / DEs all hit free agency at the same time. 

 

Will Bryson wait to sign until Koepka sets the market? Will Koepka refuse an extension that doesn't match Rahm's average annual value? I'd have to imagine that the top players have all of the leverage here. SSG/PGAT would happily take back the top talent, even if it pisses off a few of the rank and file. The PIF can cut a 2nd round of even bigger checks or watch their best players walk back to the PGAT tour. Not a great position to be in. 

[jimecherry]

44 minutes ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

That's going to be fascinating. Like an NFL offseason when multiple top flight QBs / WRs / DEs all hit free agency at the same time. 

 

Will Bryson wait to sign until Koepka sets the market? Will Koepka refuse an extension that doesn't match Rahm's average annual value? I'd have to imagine that the top players have all of the leverage here. SSG/PGAT would happily take back the top talent, even if it pisses off a few of the rank and file. The PIF can cut a 2nd round of even bigger checks or watch their best players walk back to the PGAT tour. Not a great position to be in. 

in the current climate pif has some leverage as pgat is not willing to take back free-agents. 

[ThinkingPlus]

3 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

in the current climate pif has some leverage as pgat is not willing to take back free-agents. 

The PGAT isn't that harsh. They would probably give all of them full status on...the KF Tour. Maybe Phil might have to play Hooters events for awhile before getting to KF. 

[johnseg]

10 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

The PGAT isn't that harsh. They would probably give all of them full status on...the KF Tour. Maybe Phil might have to play Hooters events for awhile before getting to KF. 

I'm with you. The PGAT must already have something in place that they are going say to the first players trying to come back.

[bscinstnct]

20 minutes ago, jimecherry said:

in the current climate pif has some leverage as pgat is not willing to take back free-agents. 

 

The pga tour would take BK back no problem. Any of the top guys. 
 

They just put TW in all the elevated events and he like 

 

 

 

 

🤣🍻

Edited Tuesday at 08:40 PM by bscinstnct

[dalehead]

7 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

 

The pga tour would take BK back no problem. Any of the top guys. 
 

They just put TW in all the elevated events and he like 

 

 

 

 

🤣🍻

Of course. The PGAT would take back Bryson, Brooks, Rahm, and Cam Smith in a heartbeat, and take a pass on the rest. Then the ball is in PIF’s court. Let them walk or spend another $2 billion to sign them.

[stinger_gc]

8 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

That's going to be fascinating. Like an NFL offseason when multiple top flight QBs / WRs / DEs all hit free agency at the same time. 

 

Will Bryson wait to sign until Koepka sets the market? Will Koepka refuse an extension that doesn't match Rahm's average annual value? I'd have to imagine that the top players have all of the leverage here. SSG/PGAT would happily take back the top talent, even if it pisses off a few of the rank and file. The PIF can cut a 2nd round of even bigger checks or watch their best players walk back to the PGAT tour. Not a great position to be in. 

I truly think Yasir wants to be part of the PGAT. I feel like LIV’s already hit its peak and is on the downswing tbh. 

[WorkItBothWays]

9 hours ago, johnseg said:

I'm with you. The PGAT must already have something in place that they are going say to the first players trying to come back.

I've been thinking about this and I thought they might let a Koepka, for example, upon return play as normal but he's ineligible for the FedEx for two years as a sort of punishment. I'm sure they have an idea on all these things but getting all parties to agree is likely a stumbling block. Players that return would eventually want part of the equity payouts, its going to be tricky. I always thought that the PGA Tour should wait to see what happens when the first wave of big name defectors contracts are due to run out and see what PIF does.

[dcmidnight]

5 hours ago, dalehead said:

Of course. The PGAT would take back Bryson, Brooks, Rahm, and Cam Smith in a heartbeat, and take a pass on the rest. Then the ball is in PIF’s court. Let them walk or spend another $2 billion to sign them.

 

Of course they would take them back, in fact I'd be stunned if there isn't already a plan in place behind the scenes - maybe even more than one option. Whatever it costs the PGAT - whatever that number is - they win back in PR value 100 fold. 

 

I like the idea of banning them from the FedEx Cup for 2 years - sort of symbolic more than anything and the LIV guys obviously dont need the money.

[stinger_gc]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Of course they would take them back, in fact I'd be stunned if there isn't already a plan in place behind the scenes - maybe even more than one option. Whatever it costs the PGAT - whatever that number is - they win back in PR value 100 fold. 

 

I like the idea of banning them from the FedEx Cup for 2 years - sort of symbolic more than anything and the LIV guys obviously dont need the money.

That’s a bit too harsh. I think they should be able to play any event but are ineligible for the PIP bonus/equity

[bekgolf]

Let them flounder without a Liv contract or a PGAT card.  They left and have zero rights back.  Their actions have caused harm to the PGAT.  Maybe they could be influencers and have a youtube bros tour.

[stinger_gc]

6 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Let them flounder without a Liv contract or a PGAT card.  They left and have zero rights back.  Their actions have caused harm to the PGAT.  Maybe they could be influencers and have a youtube bros tour.

If PIF is going to invest in PGAT enterprises this stance makes 0 sense 

[bcjim]

3 minutes ago, bekgolf said:

Let them flounder without a Liv contract or a PGAT card.  They left and have zero rights back.  Their actions have caused harm to the PGAT.  Maybe they could be influencers and have a youtube bros tour.

I sponsor exemption per tournament max to a liv sell out.  And only at non signature events.

 

Unlimited KF sponsor invites for them.  Let them earn it is they want to. 

[bekgolf]

2 minutes ago, stinger_gc said:

If PIF is going to invest in PGAT enterprises this stance makes 0 sense 

 

If PIF invests the only reason would be to make the PGAT a second tier product. 

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Of course they would take them back, in fact I'd be stunned if there isn't already a plan in place behind the scenes - maybe even more than one option. Whatever it costs the PGAT - whatever that number is - they win back in PR value 100 fold. 

 

I like the idea of banning them from the FedEx Cup for 2 years - sort of symbolic more than anything and the LIV guys obviously dont need the money.

 

Fedex contract is til 2027

 

Could see Aramco replace it, but in a different format/time of year. 
 

Maybe that’s where the line in the proverbial sand is drawn by SSG

 

Aramco branded events with all the top players but LIV gets shuttered, at least in any form that competes with tour interests. And PIF gets its big equity stake in of a tour enterprises 

 

Thats the simplest most beneficial for all
 

 

[smashdn]

17 hours ago, Dutch1008 said:

 

That's going to be fascinating. Like an NFL offseason when multiple top flight QBs / WRs / DEs all hit free agency at the same time. 

 

Will Bryson wait to sign until Koepka sets the market? Will Koepka refuse an extension that doesn't match Rahm's average annual value? I'd have to imagine that the top players have all of the leverage here. SSG/PGAT would happily take back the top talent, even if it pisses off a few of the rank and file. The PIF can cut a 2nd round of even bigger checks or watch their best players walk back to the PGAT tour. Not a great position to be in. 

 

I like this.  Be like the CFL and NFL in a bidding a war for players.  Maybe for ABA and NBA at one point in time.

[MtlJeff]

17 hours ago, jimecherry said:

in the current climate pif has some leverage as pgat is not willing to take back free-agents. 

 

Have they said that? I realize the guys are likely still suspended , but i cant imagine the PGA wouldn't take back any of the top 10-15 guys if they really wanted. 

 

Emotions aside it's just good business. Its a public win for the tour and hurts a competitor 

 

If Brooks, Bryson and Rahm all came back that's like the end of "Inglorious Basterds". You've blown up the basket, operation kino style. They of course would do that. 

 

They get 650 fans WITH those guys. Take them away a tumbleweed is gonna finish 36th in the next event

[Rapidcat]

All the opinions on here seem so routed in small money for the PGAT.

 

The PIF last month was named the world’s most valuable sovereign wealth fund with total estimated assets of US$925 billion and an A+ brand strength rating (it was c.$700B when LIV commenced). Just Google it to get more details.

Yasir is personally worth a reported $120B. He's reportedly (ask Rory) a golf nut.

SSG invested a reported $3B in the PGAT (um, big deal).

PGAT's viewing ratings are down this season.

 

It's not even a contest. The guys already on LIV will be ecstatic that they are on this train.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:22 PM by Rapidcat

[smashdn]

1 minute ago, Rapidcat said:

Yasir is personally worth a reported $120B. He's reportedly (ask Rory) a golf nut.

 

Now the question is, which one of you here is Yasir?

 

My vote is Miles Giles or whatever his name was and we ran him off.

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, smashdn said:

 

Now the question is, which one of you here is Yasir?

 

My vote is Miles Giles or whatever his name was and we ran him off.

 

Well it's not me, if I was worth that I wouldn't be spending my time on here.

 

I'd be spending time getting my Augusta membership approved.

[bcjim]

25 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

All the opinions on here seem so routed in small money for the PGAT.

 

The PIF last month was named the world’s most valuable sovereign wealth fund brand and has a brand value of $1.1 billion and an A+ brand strength rating (it was c.$700B when LIV commenced). Just Google it to get more details.

Yasir is personally worth a reported $120B. He's reportedly (ask Rory) a golf nut.

SSG invested a reported $3B in the PGAT (um, big deal).

PGAT's viewing ratings are down this season.

 

It's not even a contest. The guys already on LIV will be ecstatic that they are on this train.

 

 

It was recently reported they were deploying austerity measures and reevaluating investments due to poor performance.  

 

Also, that's a lot.  Except when you compare it to US PE, it's not that much. 

[Rapidcat]

19 minutes ago, bcjim said:

It was recently reported they were deploying austerity measures and reevaluating investments due to poor performance.  

 

Also, that's a lot.  Except when you compare it to US PE, it's not that much. 

 

PIF debt is c $38.7B of total estimated assets of US$925 billion. Just Google it all.

 

They're doing terribly, aren't they?

 

But SSG are investing $3B in the PGAT - wow. BTW, the smartest investment by the SSG members, they will get a large and quick return from the PIF.

Edited Wednesday at 02:20 PM by Rapidcat

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

PIF debt is c $38.7B of $1.1 trillion brand value and a total estimated assets of US$925 billion. Just Google it all.

 

They're doing terribly, aren't they?

 

But SSG are investing $3B in the PGAT - wow. BTW, the smartest investment by the SSG members, they will get a large and quick return from the PIF.

 

They got a trillion and spending 

 

half that amount on big desert city! 
 

not to mention, hundreds of other investments and projects. 

 

LIV is a minor investment, sure it can be funded, it can also be dumped quickly if a better opportunity in golf presents itself,

 

Having Aramco branded as a sponsor for several premiere golf tournaments with a with a major quality field, and as a full partner in the pga tour for example. 

Edited Wednesday at 02:25 PM by bscinstnct

[subrew]

4 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Of course they would take them back, in fact I'd be stunned if there isn't already a plan in place behind the scenes - maybe even more than one option. Whatever it costs the PGAT - whatever that number is - they win back in PR value 100 fold. 

 

I like the idea of banning them from the FedEx Cup for 2 years - sort of symbolic more than anything and the LIV guys obviously dont need the money.

 

Do "they" even need a plan in place for those guys mentioned?  By winning the PGA Championships and US Open, guys like Brooks and Bryson automatically earned their PGAT card.  A five year PGAT exemption in fact.  He can join within 60 days of winning or anytime in the next five years.  It is right in the PGAT rules.  How Bryson's current "suspension" plays into it is another matter.  But Brooks resigned his PGAT membership, then won last year, so technically he could join the PGAT anytime before the five years runs out.

 

This would apply if pretty much anyone won the US Open.  A member of the Asian Tour, Sunshine Tour, Scandi Tour, or a total AM with zero tour membership.

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, bscinstnct said:

 

They got a trillion and spending 

 

half that amount on big desert city! 
 

not to mention, hundreds of other investments and projects. 

 

LIV is a minor investment, sure it can be funded, it can also be dumped quickly if a better opportunity in golf presents itself,

 

Having Aramco branded as a sponsor for several premiere golf tournaments with a with a major quality field, and as a full partner in the pga tour for example. 

 

Bingo. If only the PGAT had engaged at the start, we'd likely have an Aramco/LET style set-up in place.

 

But Jay's a great leader, so we have what we have now.

 

So so so dumb.

[bscinstnct]

3 minutes ago, Rapidcat said:

 

Bingo. If only the PGAT had engaged at the start, we'd likely have an Aramco/LET style set-up in place.

 

But Jay's a great leader, so we have what we have now.

 

So so so dumb.

 

What was actually proposed by SA?

 

If it was just to talk and Jay shut it down, bad move. 
 

Ideally you take the meetings and learn about what a very serious group of people is looking for. 
 

Then you can consider, stall, plan, negotiate 

 

But I’m curious if SA came with any specific proposal or not. 
 

If SA basically said we are starting a golf tour and “that’s that” then they are equally responsible for the way this played out. 
 

Maybe it was something in between. Really like to know how this got started. Lol

[Rapidcat]

2 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

What was actually proposed by SA?

 

If it was just to talk and Jay shut it down, bad move. 
 

Ideally you take the meetings and learn about what a very serious group of people is looking for. 
 

Then you can consider, stall, plan, negotiate 

 

But I’m curious if SA came with any specific proposal or not. 
 

If SA basically said we are starting a golf tour and “that’s that” then they are equally responsible for the way this played out. 
 

Maybe it was something in between. Really like to know how this got started. Lol

 

Yes, but that's all water under the bridge.

 

It's now all about how it finishes.

[Danielson]

Typically you don't want to let foxes into your henhouse. We have a lot of people who seem to be thinking "but we have no idea what the fox is after, maybe it's a NICE fox". Not that I think Monahan has handled anything well, but I also don't think giving the PIF an in to the PGA Tour would have been a good idea. We'd be sitting here going "wow, I can't believe Jay got suckered like that".

 

 

[Cactus Jack]

3 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

 

If it was just to talk and Jay shut it down, bad move. 
 

Ideally you take the meetings and learn about what a very serious group of people is looking for. 
 

Then you can consider, stall, plan, negotiate 

 

But I’m curious if SA came with any specific proposal or not. 
 

If SA basically said we are starting a golf tour and “that’s that” then they are equally responsible for the way this played out. 
 

Maybe it was something in between. Really like to know how this got start

 

Below is a basic summary. Jays missteps have been documented & confirmed by many sources including players like Jack & Rory, the PGAT Board, and confirmed by multiple sources over the past two years. One meeting three years ago and LIV golf never sees the light of day. 
 

https://www.firepitcollective.com/p/liv-and-let-die

[Rapidcat]

1 minute ago, Danielson said:

Typically you don't want to let foxes into your henhouse. We have a lot of people who seem to be thinking "but we have no idea what the fox is after, maybe it's a NICE fox". Not that I think Monahan has handled anything well, but I also don't think giving the PIF an in to the PGA Tour would have been a good idea. We'd be sitting here going "wow, I can't believe Jay got suckered like that".

 

 

 

Maybe.

 

What is the PIF doubled all their prizemoney and signing/resigning $?

 

How many more high-ranked pros would they get?

 

Does it matter who they get?