Soft butt and tip, stiff mid shafts.

[Tbone107]

Hey everyone,

 

Wanted to see if there were any higher end shafts that I missed with this profile?

 

After a bunch of testing of other shafts the past 6 months I've settled into a Speeder TR 661 TX that is an Aldila Silver/Green with a softer handle like a whiteboard, but a stiffish tip and want to potentially see what a slightly softer tip w/ higher torque would feel like. 

 

Any help is appreciated!

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, Tbone107 said:

Hey everyone,

 

Wanted to see if there were any higher end shafts that I missed with this profile?

 

After a bunch of testing of other shafts the past 6 months I've settled into a Speeder TR 661 TX that is an Aldila Silver/Green with a softer handle like a whiteboard, but a stiffish tip and want to potentially see what a slightly softer tip w/ higher torque would feel like. 

 

Any help is appreciated!

 

That would be an Aldila Blue (Tour Blue, rogue black, 2knv blue)  or Diamana Blueboard profile.

[rsballer10]

16 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

That would be an Aldila Blue (Tour Blue, rogue black, 2knv blue)  or Diamana Blueboard profile.

Aren't those the opposite of soft/stiff/soft? Those would be stiff/soft/stiff?

[Stuart_G]

8 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

Aren't those the opposite of soft/stiff/soft? Those would be stiff/soft/stiff?

 

soft/stiff are subjective evaluations.   One persons soft can be another persons stiff.    The recommendations were based on the relative differences to the specific shafts the OP was referencing and the differences he was asking for.  e.g.  a whiteboard like profile with a softer tip is a blueboard.    Personally I don't see either the aldila green or whiteboard as a soft butt or stiff mid. But that's me.

 

But most ams can't really tell the difference between butt and mid stiffness - despite beliefs to the contrary.  They really feel a combination of both.  So any such requests need to be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt."

Edited August 11, 2022 by Stuart_G

[WristySwing]

It is going to be pretty hard to find this profile, honestly.  Not many shafts exist like this.  The only two that really come to mind are the Tensei Pro Orange and Accra FX 3.0 360.  See below with your shaft of choice as a reference, which is more directly linear than a stiff mid.

 

[Peterman6068]

I have the tr 661 in driver and love it. I also put the tr 757 in 3 wood and tr hybrid shaft in my hybrid. It’s nice not needing a different swing for different clubs, as these 3 are all matching up with my swing. 

[rsballer10]

38 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

soft/stiff are subjective evaluations.   One persons soft can be another persons stiff.    The recommendations were based on the relative differences to the specific shafts the OP was referencing and the differences he was asking for.  e.g.  a whiteboard like profile with a softer tip is a blueboard.    Personally I don't see either the aldila green or whiteboard as a soft butt or stiff mid. But that's me.

 

But most ams can't really tell the difference between butt and mid stiffness - despite beliefs to the contrary.  They really feel a combination of both.  So any such requests need to be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt."

 

Not to be a smartass but of course soft/stiff are subjective evaluations, as they contain no quantitative measures. My point was what OP is describing is a "convex" EI profile...not saying it's impossible because I'm sure someone could actually build it. It's not likely just because the butt diameter is always going to be the biggest, so at best you might see a flatter EI slope.

 

I agree with the mid/butt stiffness argument. I can't spot where the shaft is bending. I just know if the tip is soft, for my swing I get high hooks.

[Tbone107]

47 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

soft/stiff are subjective evaluations.   One persons soft can be another persons stiff.    The recommendations were based on the relative differences to the specific shafts the OP was referencing and the differences he was asking for.  e.g.  a whiteboard like profile with a softer tip is a blueboard.    Personally I don't see either the aldila green or whiteboard as a soft butt or stiff mid. But that's me.

 

But most ams can't really tell the difference between butt and mid stiffness - despite beliefs to the contrary.  They really feel a combination of both.  So any such requests need to be taken with the proverbial "grain of salt."

I get what your saying, but like you said it must all be relative..

 

My CHS is mid to upper 130's and I played D1 and some mini tour and KFT stuff for a while so I know my feels when it comes to shafts, but I've always played rebarish stout shafts so that certainly skews my opinion on what soft is. 

 

 Just looking for a good shaft for more feel/softness in it everywhere but the mid. If I feel the mid moving that's when dispersion and spin start to get worse for me. 

[Tbone107]

35 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

It is going to be pretty hard to find this profile, honestly.  Not many shafts exist like this.  The only two that really come to mind are the Tensei Pro Orange and Accra FX 3.0 360.  See below with your shaft of choice as a reference, which is more directly linear than a stiff mid.

 

Appreciate it. Maybe I should say I'm looking for one with a softer tip very stiff mid without the handle mattering too much. 

 

If that makes a difference. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Tbone107

[Tbone107]

48 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

It is going to be pretty hard to find this profile, honestly.  Not many shafts exist like this.  The only two that really come to mind are the Tensei Pro Orange and Accra FX 3.0 360.  See below with your shaft of choice as a reference, which is more directly linear than a stiff mid.

 

Do you have access to the Fuji Speeder NX with this software?

 

I have a sub to Russ Rydens but he doesn't have that. I think I might look into the new Ventus TR red if it comes out in a TX or the Speeder NX. 

 

 

[WristySwing]

@Tbone107even still, you can clearly see that the 661 doesn't fit the profile you want either, relative to the 2 I showed you.  In order to have a stiff middle, it needs to have a stiff butt section, otherwise the shaft would look like a lower case n, and probably nobody would be able to load it properly.  You basically have to say goodbye to any shaft in the Fujikura and Graphite Design family as none of them fit that profile.  They mostly have the same super stiff handle, soft middle, and medium tip.  The Ventus Red TR would actually be the worst of the bunch for that as it will be an extremely stiff handle, mega soft middle and soft tip.  The Speeder NX is also no different.  You need to look at the two I showed you, and maybe HZRDUS stuff.  Good luck.  

 

The software I use is called S3.  You can purchase a monthly subscription to it here:  www.s3fitting.com

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by WristySwing

[phizzy30]

Speeder TR is a a really good shaft.  I had the 757x 3 years ago.  Regret selling it.  Trust me, you're not missing out on anything. 

[phizzy30]

17 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

I get what your saying, but like you said it must all be relative..

 

My CHS is mid to upper 130's and I played D1 and some mini tour and KFT stuff for a while so I know my feels when it comes to shafts, but I've always played rebarish stout shafts so that certainly skews my opinion on what soft is. 

 

 Just looking for a good shaft for more feel/softness in it everywhere but the mid. If I feel the mid moving that's when dispersion and spin start to get worse for me. 

Have you tried the TPO 1K?  It's not exactly the profile you described but classic white board which you probably know is stiff, stiff, soft/firm.  As I posted, I had the Speeder TR, loved it and now am playing the TPO 1K.  The mid section does not move for this shaft and it's counterbalanced which is something we discussed via PM.  

Edited August 11, 2022 by phizzy30

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

 

Not to be a smartass but of course soft/stiff are subjective evaluations, as they contain no quantitative measures.

 

No worries.

 

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

My point was what OP is describing is a "convex" EI profile...not saying it's impossible

 

Sorry, but the shape of the profile is not what gives it the feel.  It's the actual EI values at the different parts of the shaft.

 

 

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

because I'm sure someone could actually build it. It's not likely just because the butt diameter is always going to be the biggest, so at best you might see a flatter EI slope.

 

Flatter for the top part of the shaft yes - but only if that 'flatter' part is in the right spot vertically on the graph.

 

 

 

[rsballer10]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Sorry, but the shape of the profile is not what gives it the feel.  It's the actual EI values at the different parts of the shaft.

 

 

The EI values are what create the shape of the profile...plot the points and draw the curve...

[Stuart_G]

2 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

 

The EI values are what create the shape of the profile...plot the points and draw the curve...

 

But the shape by itself without values is meaningless.

[rsballer10]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

But the shape by itself without values is meaningless.

ok, fair enough

[Tbone107]

6 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Have you tried the TPO 1K?  It's not exactly the profile you described but classic white board which you probably know is stiff, stiff, soft/firm.  As I posted, I had the Speeder TR, loved it and now am playing the TPO 1K.  The mid section does not move for this shaft and it's counterbalanced which is something we discussed via PM.  

Hey Phizzy, I did try it. Got great numbers from it but the feel didn't match up as well for me with the TR. I feel like the TR feels a little "softer" and i always skew to liking that feeling more than stout. 

[Danny90]

Oban Revenge is soft tip & butt with a stiff mid. Have been testing one out in my 3w after seeing Mac Boucher using one in 7w and speaking highly

[Tbone107]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

@Tbone107even still, you can clearly see that the 661 doesn't fit the profile you want either, relative to the 2 I showed you.  In order to have a stiff middle, it needs to have a stiff butt section, otherwise the shaft would look like a lower case n, and probably nobody would be able to load it properly.  You basically have to say goodbye to any shaft in the Fujikura and Graphite Design family as none of them fit that profile.  They mostly have the same super stiff handle, soft middle, and medium tip.  The Ventus Red TR would actually be the worst of the bunch for that as it will be an extremely stiff handle, mega soft middle and soft tip.  The Speeder NX is also no different.  You need to look at the two I showed you, and maybe HZRDUS stuff.  Good luck.  

 

The software I use is called S3.  You can purchase a monthly subscription to it here:  www.s3fitting.com

 

Ya I did a poor job with my original ask. 

 

I am looking for something different then what I'm playing although I like it a lot. I want to try something that has good feel and that I can feel the kick speed coming through the ball, and I'm not sure what creates that feel the best and assumed it is when it is softer under the handle and by the tip. 

 

 

[Tbone107]

17 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Hey Phizzy, I did try it. Got great numbers from it but the feel didn't match up as well for me with the TR. I feel like the TR feels a little "softer" and i always skew to liking that feeling more than stout. 

Edit: sorry Phiz thought you were talking about 1k white. I have not tried 1k Orange yet. Trying to decide on that or something a little different ie the Speeder NX or Ventus red TR in TX if that comes out like I mentioned above.  

[third-times-a-charm]

This is an oddball profile because it doesnt make much sense nor fit many people so your options will be very limited.

 

Now, there are plenty of shafts as @Stuart_G mentioned where you can SUBJECTIVELY say the handle and tip FEEL softer than other shafts in said shafts series - such as a stiff-soft-stiff profile where the handle is actually soft compared to others which feel stiff and a softer tip helping with launch. At this point we're just talking semantics of feel but that may be what you're actually after rather than a black and white EI profile showing something that is in its base profile plot an actual soft-stiff-soft convex shaft in the chart.

 

I would not recommend ACTUALLY chasing on paper the profile you describe and rather go by what you personally feel is soft-er in those sections.

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Ya I did a poor job with my original ask. 

 

I am looking for something different then what I'm playing although I like it a lot. I want to try something that has good feel and that I can feel the kick speed coming through the ball, and I'm not sure what creates that feel the best and assumed it is when it is softer under the handle and by the tip. 

 

 

 

It's a very rough generalization - so doesn't apply to everyone - but while the whole shaft can contribute to the feel of the shaft loading in transition - it's much more common for tip section stiffness to be the biggest or bigger contribution to the feel of the shaft unloading.  So the idea of going a little bit softer in the type might be the right approach.   But just remember that when you change the tip stiffness, you can also change the loading feel.  So if you want the loading to feel similar but get a bit more unloading feel, you might need to tighten up the butt/mid a bit to compensate for the softer tip.

 

So in that respect, I would forget the butt/mid for a bit and just go out and try/demo a bunch of mid launch shafts that have that softer tip and see what you can find.

 

 

 

[Tbone107]

13 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

It's a very rough generalization - so doesn't apply to everyone - but while the whole shaft can contribute to the feel of the shaft loading in transition - it's much more common for tip section stiffness to be the biggest or bigger contribution to the feel of the shaft unloading.  So the idea of going a little bit softer in the type might be the right approach.   But just remember that when you change the tip stiffness, you can also change the loading feel.  So if you want the loading to feel similar but get a bit more unloading feel, you might need to tighten up the butt/mid a bit to compensate for the softer tip.

 

So in that respect, I would forget the butt/mid for a bit and just go out and try/demo a bunch of mid launch shafts that have that softer tip and see what you can find.

 

 

 

Awesome. Exact info I was looking for Stuart! Thanks, I think the Speeder NX might be on my list of next to try. 

[rooski]

LAGolf Trono is definitely one to check out. Stiffest midsection of any shaft on the market afaik.

 

Another benefit is that they can be found for a good deal atm

 

It's what I play in my driver and may be my favorite shaft ever

Edited August 11, 2022 by rooski

[Tbone107]

Well color me confused. Looks like the Mid High Launch Speeder NX in 60TX has a stiffer tip than Ventus Black in 7TX according to their rating scale. 

 

NX tip stiffness-81 

VENTUS black 7TX tip- 85 (lower means stiffer)

 

https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/ventus

 

https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/speeder-nx

[third-times-a-charm]

26 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Well color me confused. Looks like the Mid High Launch Speeder NX in 60TX has a stiffer tip than Ventus Black in 7TX according to their rating scale. 

 

NX tip stiffness-81 

VENTUS black 7TX tip- 85 (lower means stiffer)

 

https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/ventus

 

https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/speeder-nx

The Ventus Black is not meant to be extremely low spinning nor meant to have the stiffest tip available.

[phizzy30]

37 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Edit: sorry Phiz thought you were talking about 1k white. I have not tried 1k Orange yet. Trying to decide on that or something a little different ie the Speeder NX or Ventus red TR in TX if that comes out like I mentioned above.  

I didn't like the way the 1K felt, but for some reason love the way the TPO 1K feels.  I think it's the MR70 that gives it so much feel.  Johnny Vegas has the Speeder NX in his bag.  I've tested it but it felt too soft overall.  Ventus Red TR does sound entriguing and the plan is to test it for 3 metal for me. 

[Frank_Kasule]

4 hours ago, Tbone107 said:

 am looking for something different then what I'm playing although I like it a lot. I want to try something that has good feel and that I can feel the kick speed coming through the ball, and I'm not sure what creates that feel the best and assumed it is when it is softer under the handle and by the tip. 

 

 

 

I am no shaft expert but recently bought an old Rogue Sub Zero mainly for the head to combo with a Graphite Design AD HD shaft that I already had. It came with a Project X LZ17 65 66g shaft so I decided to give it a go. 

It is exactly as you described, I can feel a huge kick that seems to give me more distance. I don't lose any accuracy and the feel is addictive, I've never felt anything like it but I really like it. 

It's odd because there's hardly any information about these shafts anywhere but I think you can pick them up for pretty cheap. Would definitely recommend based on what you've written above. 

[Adam C]

Might also try and play around with flex. Ventus Black in X or even S tipping 1 inch for example. Will give more loading feel while still having a stiff mid section.